Mesmer Relic: Stock Clones

[ShadowKatt.6740]

So I was sleeping, Dreaming, with visions of Mesmers in my head because I love being a mesmer and the most wonderful thing happened.

I got a relic that let me stock clones like a virtuoso stocks daggers. No more did I need to build up my clones before I could shatter them, they just wandered with me like a pet/jade golem/minion and I could open with shatters and rebuild to shatter again.

And then I woke up and realized that it didn't exist.

BUT IT COULD!

Look, I don't ask for much. Just let me stock clones. I like me. Let me have more of me.

[Stavros.8249]

I wanted the same thing! I finally got it with condi mirage where your clones do ambush with u and the two skills that controls them. Since its a wish post, i would like mirage got specialize shatters like the other two elite specs. Some of them or all would be to do thinks with your clones

[dead.7638]

I want something that makes my clones emot with me.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Hey Hey, one thing at a time.

First we have to GET clones, THEN we teach them to dance.

[Lugh.8470]

It would be so good to have clones stay if you don't shatter after 1 target dying like virtuoso. If it is too much they don't even have to stay on field, like have 3 charges full but when you normal attack next target spawn those stored clones from previous target instantly, also when I finally got mirage after playing chrono I was very dissapointed that shatters are same as core, AT LEAST give it something little extra like chrono does.  

[ShadowKatt.6740]

4 hours ago, Lugh.8470 said:

It would be so good to have clones stay if you don't shatter after 1 target dying like virtuoso. If it is too much they don't even have to stay on field, like have 3 charges full but when you normal attack next target spawn those stored clones from previous target instantly, also when I finally got mirage after playing chrono I was very dissapointed that shatters are same as core, AT LEAST give it something little extra like chrono does.  

Okay, here's the thing. It's not immediately obvious and if you never played GW1 you'd never know, but specializations are -usually- secondary professions. In Guild Wars 1 you had a primary and secondary profession so you could mix and match your skills. GW2 doesn't do that but it has shades of it. Mesmers are mesmers. Chronomancers are Mesmer/Necromancers though. That's why they get wells. The shatter effects are just a nice little extra but extra is all they are. Mirages are Mesmer/Thieves. That's why they got ambushes. That's the main focus of  the specialization, and really all it got. Virtuoso...yeah, I haven't figured that out. Virtuoso is just the DPS build because Mesmers really had nothing to offer anything, especially since everyone else got Aclarity and no one needed Mesmers anymore.

And it's not as if a relic that let your clones stay until shattered is going to make mesmers suddenly useful again. It's just going to make me happy. And at the end of the day, isn't that what we all want?

[Lugh.8470]

13 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, here's the thing. It's not immediately obvious and if you never played GW1 you'd never know, but specializations are -usually- secondary professions. In Guild Wars 1 you had a primary and secondary profession so you could mix and match your skills. GW2 doesn't do that but it has shades of it. Mesmers are mesmers. Chronomancers are Mesmer/Necromancers though. That's why they get wells. The shatter effects are just a nice little extra but extra is all they are. Mirages are Mesmer/Thieves. That's why they got ambushes. That's the main focus of  the specialization, and really all it got. Virtuoso...yeah, I haven't figured that out. Virtuoso is just the DPS build because Mesmers really had nothing to offer anything, especially since everyone else got Aclarity and no one needed Mesmers anymore.

And it's not as if a relic that let your clones stay until shattered is going to make mesmers suddenly useful again. It's just going to make me happy. And at the end of the day, isn't that what we all want?

Yeah I have never touched gw1, I didn't even know about its existence at all until far later.  True in the end it's about being happy with something. but then again firebrand F1-F3 skills are so different compared to say dragonhunter but i have only played guardian rather superficially  (mostly pvp and some pve), so I might be wrong ?  

Then again mirage does feel different from core mesmer so I don't mind having same shatters. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Lugh.8470
forgot to add

[Penor.4651]

I think relics should be universal and not for specific professions. I don't think it's a good idea to introduce one that only works for the mesmer

[ShadowKatt.6740]

53 minutes ago, Penor.4651 said:

I think relics should be universal and not for specific professions. I don't think it's a good idea to introduce one that only works for the mesmer

Okay, you can think that, but you're wrong. Let me explain.

My personal favorite relic and the one I carry on almost all my builds is the Relic of Mercy. Faster rez and more health on Rez. People like me. And it's completely universal. Everyone can benefit from the Relic of mercy. Good relic. The best relic.

Then there's the others. Let's take a look at a few of them. Relic of the Chronomancer. Chronomancer is not just a specific specialization, but it only affects wells. Since wells are a necromancer thing and Chronos are just Mesmer/Necros, that's a profession specific relic. Relic of the Trooper. Remove a condition when using a shout. Shouts are exclusive to, I believe, Warriors, Guardians, and Tempests. Relic of the Firebrand affects Mantras. Firebrands are Guardian/Mesmers, so this is only really good for Guardians and Mesmers. And so on and so on.

We already have them. And while I do understand your sentiment I just don't think it's valid.

[Penor.4651]

12 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, you can think that, but you're wrong. Let me explain.

My personal favorite relic and the one I carry on almost all my builds is the Relic of Mercy. Faster rez and more health on Rez. People like me. And it's completely universal. Everyone can benefit from the Relic of mercy. Good relic. The best relic.

Then there's the others. Let's take a look at a few of them. Relic of the Chronomancer. Chronomancer is not just a specific specialization, but it only affects wells. Since wells are a necromancer thing and Chronos are just Mesmer/Necros, that's a profession specific relic. Relic of the Trooper. Remove a condition when using a shout. Shouts are exclusive to, I believe, Warriors, Guardians, and Tempests. Relic of the Firebrand affects Mantras. Firebrands are Guardian/Mesmers, so this is only really good for Guardians and Mesmers. And so on and so on.

We already have them. And while I do understand your sentiment I just don't think it's valid.

Am I wrong in what I THINK? You are comical. Who's here is just you. Of the relics you mentioned, the only one that doesn't affect at least 4 professions is the Relic of the Firebrand, try researching it on the Wiki. Now, the key point, can you understand the difference between a relic that affects 4 different professions and one that only affects Mesmer clones? If you can't grasp the difference between the examples you provided and what the topic proposes, I recommend thinking more. But again, what I said was: 'I THINK relics should be more comprehensive and not specific to professions.' You saying that I'm wrong only shows how much you failed to understand the sentence.

[Kulvar.1239]

Relic should not be exclusive to 1 profession.

But clones should be "stored" when out of combat and switch target baseline. At least on chronomancer.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

11 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Relic should not be exclusive to 1 profession.

But clones should be "stored" when out of combat and switch target baseline. At least on chronomancer.

Well, I'm gonna disagree with you and agree with you at the same time, just on different points.

I already made my case in favor of a profession specific relic above. I won't rehash it here and I stand by what I said. But you're right. If it was a base mechanic then we wouldn't even need the relic. And while I would adore having that change be made I'm also realistic enough to recognize that it never will be, so this is the best I can offer.

Oh, and not just on chronomancer. Other mesmer NPCs have been shown they can create persistent clones, so there's no reason we can't either. The only excuse is that it lowers the graphics load...but that doesn't make sense since even when minis get hidden in big meta events your clones and all their special effects still show up, and to just slow mesmers down.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Making it a relic seems a bit misplaced, but as a happy-medium option I'd gladly give up Signet of Illusions for a Mantra of Illusions instead.

Proc the "Recharges shatter skills" on the charging cast, and then you have two instant-cast clones to spend, instead of having them generated on an interval. Leave the CD the same or maybe even increase it a little so it's not a source of constant spikes.

Unfortunately it wouldn't do anything for the clone dance party.

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Making it a relic seems a bit misplaced, but as a happy-medium option I'd gladly give up Signet of Illusions for a Mantra of Illusions instead.

Proc the "Recharges shatter skills" on the charging cast, and then you have two instant-cast clones to spend, instead of having them generated on an interval. Leave the CD the same or maybe even increase it a little so it's not a source of constant spikes.

Unfortunately it wouldn't do anything for the clone dance party.

Nooooo, I like my Signet of Illusions. But I get you. I actually don't use Mantras since when I was using them you had to be really careful with them and i hate being careful with them. I think they've changed a few times now but I'm kinda set in my build. I just think we should be able to generate clones and keep them though. Shouldn't even really need to change their script a whole lot....I don't think. Maybe not. They are pretty dumb.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

17 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Well, I'm gonna disagree with you and agree with you at the same time, just on different points.

I already made my case in favor of a profession specific relic above. I won't rehash it here and I stand by what I said. But you're right. If it was a base mechanic then we wouldn't even need the relic. And while I would adore having that change be made I'm also realistic enough to recognize that it never will be, so this is the best I can offer.

Oh, and not just on chronomancer. Other mesmer NPCs have been shown they can create persistent clones, so there's no reason we can't either. The only excuse is that it lowers the graphics load...but that doesn't make sense since even when minis get hidden in big meta events your clones and all their special effects still show up, and to just slow mesmers down.

The relics you listed work with multiple professions. 

The proposed relic would only apply to one profession and of that only 2 eSpecs.

 

Relic of Chronomancer works for Necromancers, Scrappers, Specters, as well as Chronomancers.

Relic of the Weaver works for Warriors, Weavers, and Soulbeasts.

Relic of the Trooper and Reaper works for Guardians, Reapers, Tempests

Relic of the Deadeye works for Elementalist, Deadeye, and Untamed

Relic of Dragonhunter works for Rangers and Dragonhunter

 

The proposed Mesmer relic would only work for core Mesmer and its 2 eSpecs with clones.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

The relics you listed work with multiple professions. 

The proposed relic would only apply to one profession and of that only 2 eSpecs.

 

Relic of Chronomancer works for Necromancers, Scrappers, Specters, as well as Chronomancers.

Relic of the Weaver works for Warriors, Weavers, and Soulbeasts.

Relic of the Trooper and Reaper works for Guardians, Reapers, Tempests

Relic of the Deadeye works for Elementalist, Deadeye, and Untamed

Relic of Dragonhunter works for Rangers and Dragonhunter

 

The proposed Mesmer relic would only work for core Mesmer and its 2 eSpecs with clones.

Yes, I...believe.....no, let me read.....yes, yes when I listed those relics above I actually did acknowledge that they did work for multiple professions. However, they're also exclusive to other professions. The relic of the Chronomancer isn't doing a whole lot of good for Guardians of any flavor, or Rangers. The Relic of the Deadeye isn't helping Necromancers or warriors, and the Relic of the Dragonhunter isn't helping me at all no matter what I do. The point is that if we'd already established that Relics were universal, then I wouldn't have suggested this in the first place and this thread wouldn't exist. Since we've already established that some ARE exclusive we're not longer quibbling over the idea of exclusivity, only over the degree. And you're free to disagree with it being only good for mesmers. I'm free to disagree with you.

As for the relic only working with 3 of the four specs for Mesmers, this is true...to a point. You're ignoring that Virtuoso gets this already for free. They get blades instead of clones, I'm sure I don't need to explain that here, but their blades are already ever-present. So the relic doesn't affect them because, well, they already have it. It's the others that NEED it, and so, a relic for them.

By the way, you can complain about this all you want, but I'd just like to point out that this is actually still a bad thing for Mesmers. I'm currently using the Relic of Mercy. I love the Relic of Mercy. And I would be giving up my 20% rez speed ad 30% bonus health to have my clones out permamantly. As stated above this should be part of the mesmers mechanics by default, but we didn't get that, so this is the best I can do, and obviously I'm in the EXTREME minority here so even if someone from Anet did see it, rest assured that you've all ensured it'll never happen.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Yes, I...believe.....no, let me read.....yes, yes when I listed those relics above I actually did acknowledge that they did work for multiple professions. However, they're also exclusive to other professions. The relic of the Chronomancer isn't doing a whole lot of good for Guardians of any flavor, or Rangers. The Relic of the Deadeye isn't helping Necromancers or warriors, and the Relic of the Dragonhunter isn't helping me at all no matter what I do. The point is that if we'd already established that Relics were universal, then I wouldn't have suggested this in the first place and this thread wouldn't exist. Since we've already established that some ARE exclusive we're not longer quibbling over the idea of exclusivity, only over the degree. And you're free to disagree with it being only good for mesmers. I'm free to disagree with you.

As for the relic only working with 3 of the four specs for Mesmers, this is true...to a point. You're ignoring that Virtuoso gets this already for free. They get blades instead of clones, I'm sure I don't need to explain that here, but their blades are already ever-present. So the relic doesn't affect them because, well, they already have it. It's the others that NEED it, and so, a relic for them.

By the way, you can complain about this all you want, but I'd just like to point out that this is actually still a bad thing for Mesmers. I'm currently using the Relic of Mercy. I love the Relic of Mercy. And I would be giving up my 20% rez speed ad 30% bonus health to have my clones out permamantly. As stated above this should be part of the mesmers mechanics by default, but we didn't get that, so this is the best I can do, and obviously I'm in the EXTREME minority here so even if someone from Anet did see it, rest assured that you've all ensured it'll never happen.

There is no place for a base piece of equipment to be applicable to only 2 specs on one profession.

All of the other examples are broad enough to be usable by at least 3 professions.

 

What you're asking for would be better implemented as a Trait in the Illusions traitline and that's the place to push for a change.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

37 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

There is no place for a base piece of equipment to be applicable to only 2 specs on one profession.

All of the other examples are broad enough to be usable by at least 3 professions.

 

What you're asking for would be better implemented as a Trait in the Illusions traitline and that's the place to push for a change.

You know what? You're right. That would be a better place for it. But what are the odds of that happening either? While I think that's actually a better place (and one I hadn't really thought of) I think the odds of a relic are better since they're shiny, new, and Anet wants to play with them at the moment.

Besides, if they touched the mesmer traits, they'd probably just nerf them again, be honest.

[Pariax.9674]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:05 PM, Stavros.8249 said:

I wanted the same thing! I finally got it with condi mirage where your clones do ambush with u and the two skills that controls them. Since its a wish post, i would like mirage got specialize shatters like the other two elite specs. Some of them or all would be to do thinks with your clones

This would be my dream for mirage too. The Ambush mechanic already has it heavily leaning into "you want to keep your illusions up and make them cast skills". It would be amazing to make clones more permanent and make shatters more like "coordinated attacks". It would add a lot of class fantasy thats special to mirage. 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

18 hours ago, Pariax.9674 said:

This would be my dream for mirage too. The Ambush mechanic already has it heavily leaning into "you want to keep your illusions up and make them cast skills". It would be amazing to make clones more permanent and make shatters more like "coordinated attacks". It would add a lot of class fantasy thats special to mirage. 

You know, I hadn't really thought about it like that. Now granted, I try to keep my clones out as much as I can as is. As a staff mesmer every clone means more conditions and besides that they make wonderful chew toys. But you're right. The Mirage really wants you to operate as a "squad", whereas the Chrono wants you to just generate and burn them with shatter after shatter.

[Zebulous.2934]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:55 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

There is no place for a base piece of equipment to be applicable to only 2 specs on one profession.

Heh, your comment was brought to my attention.  Would you care to defend relic of the necromancer?  Fear you inflict causes enemies to move 50% slower.  Seems tailor made for keeping enemies within shroud, but nothing else.  

Edit: now that I think about what you wrote; I would guess you might consider the relic of the necromancer to be a mistake.  A poor design choice.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Zebulous.2934

[Roadkizzle.2157]

46 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Heh, your comment was brought to my attention.  Would you care to defend relic of the necromancer?  Fear you inflict causes enemies to move 50% slower.  Seems tailor made for keeping enemies within shroud, but nothing else.  

Edit: now that I think about what you wrote; I would guess you might consider the relic of the necromancer to be a mistake.  A poor design choice.

I can't figure out why I would use Relic of the Necromancer on a Necromancer...

But I think it would be great for a Warrior using the Fear Me shout.

Run into a pile of enemies Fear them then go to town with the dual axes.

[Panda.1967]

it’s always been stupid that our clones shatter on target death… they should persist to the end of combat at the very least… baseline…

On 9/23/2023 at 3:05 PM, Stavros.8249 said:

Since its a wish post, i would like mirage got specialize shatters like the other two elite specs.

Mirage should have fake shatters… where you get the effect of the shatter but your clones are still there… maybe have clones gain a duration after being shattered that is reduced with subsequent shatters… or a random chance to lose a clone with each shatter, rolled per clone so the possibility of losing 2 or 3 clones in one shatter exists…

Edited October 10, 2023 by Panda.1967