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Ranger's downstate

Zekent.3652

By Zekent.3652
in Player vs. Player

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Zekent.3652

Zekent.3652

Posted
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ANet needs to check ranger's downstate, it's way stronger than other classes:

  1. Daze the target and close foes around them (this one is not much of a problem really, the problem is that it comes with a good kit in the next points)
  2. If you interrupt the pet res, they keep ressing the ranger like nothing happened.
  3. They keep controlling the pet in downstate.
  4. The pet is also able to CC you.

"Just live with it, muh ranger doood" yeah...

Ranger's downstate is way stronger than the others since a good while for some reason.

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Terrorhuz.4695

Terrorhuz.4695

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I just think ranger shouldn't get to use F skills while downed. Imagine if mesmer could shatter while downed.

  • STOMP 1: mesmer ports away
  • STOMP2: mesmer interrupt with F3
  • STOMP3: mesmer distorts your stomp
  • STOMP4: mesmer ports away again
  • STOMP5: mesmer finally gets stomped, but they cast f2 before it connects and you get killed by the confusion proc on your finisher

 

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I just think ranger shouldn't get to use F skills while downed. Imagine if mesmer could shatter while downed.

  • STOMP 1: mesmer ports away
  • STOMP2: mesmer interrupt with F3
  • STOMP3: mesmer distorts your stomp
  • STOMP4: mesmer ports away again
  • STOMP5: mesmer finally gets stomped, but they cast f2 before it connects and you get killed by the confusion proc on your finisher

 

It's this really. Profession mechanics skills should not be available in downstate unless they are for all professions.

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Zyreva.1078

Zyreva.1078

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46 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

All they gotta do is make Lick Wounds go on CD and stop the pet from healing if the pet is interrupted after it starts channeling, but that would probably cause rangers in PVE to die horribly if their pet gets randomly cced by some boss wave.

Pets are immune to cc in PvE, so that would ne a non issue.

But Lick Wounds already goes on cd on interrupt (and on use, just like other skills), but it's not what you are actually interrupting when you cc the pet after it started rezzing. So the problem with this suggestion is, that pet rez works the same way as players rez - the latter doesn't go on cd when interrupted either. So they would have to change how rezzing as a whole works (or create an entirely different way of rezzing just for ranger pets). Considering that downstate isn't particulary balanced in general, yet largely ignored by the devs and ranger is by no means the most op in every single situation, it is highly unlikely that they will put much effort into reworking it.

Also the reason why rangers can still control their pet while downed, might be because pet commands aren't considered player activated skills (and therefore don't proc any sigils and runes for example, unlike other classes' class mechanic skills).

Edited by Zyreva.1078
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Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

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16 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Pets are immune to cc in PvE, so that would ne a non issue.

But Lick Wounds already goes on cd on interrupt (and on use, just like other skills), but it's not what you are actually interrupting when you cc the pet after it started rezzing. So the problem with this suggestion is, that pet rez works the same way as players rez  - the latter doesn't go on cd when interrupted either. it.

The pet resumes rezzing after an interrupt, which requires a deliberate action on a player's part to do. If you get cced while rezzing someone, you have to press F again. 

Sure, lick wounds goes on CD when pressed or on interrupt. That's why I said:

Quote

and stop the pet from healing if the pet is interrupted after it starts channeling

There was a bug early on with ranger pets where lick wounds would refuse to work/get interrupted if the pet did not have a simple path to the ranger. The fix to this was to make the pet -so- determined to rez that it constantly attempts to perform that action until it is killed, the ranger is killed, the ranger tells it to do something else specifically, or there is a rally.  This "immune to cc" thing you're talking about is the thing I say needs to change. In PvP, at least. If a pet is rezzing, then gets hit by banish, it should forget it was rezzing until lick wounds is off cd. That will keep rangers from being mini downstate raid bosses.

They can use Call Lightning to cover their pet rezzing if they so desire.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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Zyreva.1078

Zyreva.1078

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5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

There was a bug early on with ranger pets where lick wounds would refuse to work/get interrupted if the pet did not have a simple path to the ranger. The fix to this was to make the pet -so- determined to rez that it constantly attempts to perform that action until it is killed, the ranger is killed, or the pet dies.

Well, pets are buggier and less responsive than ever, so idk if making ranger downstate one of the worst is warranted. I'd prefer to see downstate (or rather rezzing) toned down for everyone, should the devs finally decide to revisit this topic.

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This "immune to cc" thing you're talking about is the thing I say needs to change. In PvP, at least. If a pet is rezzing, then gets hit by banish, it should forget it was rezzing until lick wounds is off cd.

Pet's are not immune to cc in PvP and WvW. Immunity to cc and continuous rezzing after cc wears off are not the same thing.

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Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

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19 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Pet's are not immune to cc in PvP and WvW. Immunity to cc and continuous rezzing after cc wears off are not the same thing.

Wait pets are literally immune to CC in PvE? When did that happen? If that's the case then just adjust Lick Wounds.

Quote

Well, pets are buggier and less responsive than ever, so idk if making ranger downstate one of the worst is warranted. I'd prefer to see downstate (or rather rezzing) toned down for everyone, should the devs finally decide to revisit this topic.

Nah, I don't like this "tone down rezzing for everyone" angle. It's just ranger that has a critically strong downstate. We don't need to spread that adjustment around, this is a single class issue. Nobody else is in danger of getting up except warrior, and they are balanced by having a horrible interrupt skill and their rally being temporary and not contributing to capture.

Given that rangers still have full control of swap and commands of their pets in downstate, I think getting their "if you dont interrupt this I get up" skill interrupted (after they already went down, mind you) is as complicated as this needs to be. It'll still be better than most, if not all downstates currently. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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Zyreva.1078

Zyreva.1078

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42 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Wait pets are literally immune to CC in PvE? When did that happen? If that's the case then just adjust Lick Wounds.

Yes. They changed that last year after EOD (likely because of mech - pretty much the only mech related pet change that did not have a negative impact on ranger).

42 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah, I don't like this "tone down rezzing for everyone" angle. It's just ranger that has a critically strong downstate. We don't need to spread that adjustment around, this is a single class issue. Nobody else is in danger of getting up except warrior, and they are balanced by having a horrible interrupt skill and their rally being temporary and not contributing to capture.

This applies only when looking at downstate in a strict 1vs1 and then struggeling to finish off any class is mostly a l2p issue (also necro can actually win a downed 1vs1 vs ranger). Downstate is primarily relevant when multiple enemies are present (and that's the most common case in both sPvP and WvW) where it quicky becomes op, regardless of class and being able to delay a stomp - which some classes can do better than ranger - can become more relevant than the ability to self rez.

Let's be honest - how often does ranger pet rez actually impact the outcome of a match? And how often does downstate in general?

That being said, i'd rather take any nerf to downstate than non at all, but still think it's something that should be looked at in general.

Edited by Zyreva.1078
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Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

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28 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Let's be honest - how often does ranger pet rez actually impact the outcome of a match? And how often does downstate in general?

This is a fair point. The situations that this becomes an issue are pretty fringe. I'm thinking about those cases where a ranger will go down first, then win the fight if their opponent goes down at any point before they die though. Those situations -are- admittedly rare, but still important enough to account for.

Quote

Yes. They changed that last year after EOD (likely because of mech - pretty much the only mech related pet change that did not have a negative impact on ranger).

That's wild, Good QoL I guess

Quote

This applies only when looking at downstate in a strict 1vs1 and then struggeling to finish off any class is mostly a l2p issue (also necro can actually win a downed 1vs1 vs ranger).

Yeah, noted. 

Quote

being able to delay a stomp - which some classes can do better than ranger - can become more relevant than the ability to self rez.

Disagree about this part though. call lightning/pet CC works just fine for interrupting stomps. They have a finger in both of these pies, if you pardon my turn of phrase.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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Gotejjeken.1267

Gotejjeken.1267

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6 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Only if eles cannot mistform through gate portals while in downstate in wvw then sure, we have a deal 😂

This.  Ele's downstate is perhaps one of the best because of mistform---they can go right onto a point and keep it contested, through gate portals to safety, or right back into allies and get insta-rezzed.  

In fact, there are a LOT of downstates that have a teleport or movement of some sort--ranger has no such thing.

Warrior downstate is ridiculous because you can down and kill people while in last stand, which is a hell of a lot more potent than ranger self-rezzing.  

I swear, all the bronzies who get wrecked by ranger downstate, I really need to see some gameplay footage for good lols. 

Because as a g3/plat player I can tell you this thread is ridiculous, as zero times has my downstate saved me, because I'm 2v1 CC locked in downstate and dead before lick wounds even becomes available.  

Even in the most ideal conditions where you get 2-3 CC's off by pet swapping, still doesn't matter as stability is rampant and if no stability, they just wait it out and stomp you anyway.  

Ranger downstate is a literal non-factor.  Prove me wrong.

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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