For people that think World Restructuring is different from Alliances, can you explain how they are different?

[Cyninja.2954]

53 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

How can you not see that WR will be a new problem of this game mode. What do you need similar teams/servers for when you're simultaneously depriving teams/servers of identity? Are we used to being a small part of our team/server for a virtually infinite period of 11 years, and do we want to switch to an 8-week period? Is there really nothing else in between?

Every single content I can propose in WWW I do in reference to my team / server. not in reference to my guild. which I am very fond of. But Gilda is only a means to participate in this mode. not the purpose. They are players who know each other along the way, who have similar schedules, who interpret the game action in a similar way etc etc.

I don't know how many players participate in this game mode in reference to their team/server. In any case, I am here to testify to this. And in my team there are many others. And I can only imagine it's the same on the other teams.

Surely this is the part of players who have held and still hold this game mode together. With so many small problems that deserve to be solved as we all know well. While the other part of players who have lost their identity and have difficulty understanding why they are playing WWW are the ''problem'' because the only thing they do for sure, is to contribute to the imbalance rather than try to manipulate the games in their favor.

Having said that, now I would like to ask the guys at Anet: when? When do we want to give some love that this game mode deserves? When can we really talk about how to give WWW something more? And make sure that WWW truly remains an immersive and addictive large-scale PvP game? when?✌️

Wait, you are asking me how I don't see the issues with WR?

Okay, I can answer that:

I have seen this game mode go from different filled 27 individual servers years ago to linked servers, to dead servers. It takes a mentally challenged person to believe that a simple "let's stay with this system and everything will be fine" will work. I have seen karma trains grow from occasional happenings to the majority of game play in this mode by now.

Arenanet is throwing out lifelines left and right with severe reward increases, handing out legendary armor, reducing requirements for new players AND STILL the numbers of concurrent players are falling continuously as well as the quality of game play.

I don't see any server identity issue for the majority of players because quite frankly, the majority simply DON'T GIVE A kitten any more (at least going by behavior). The majority of players by now are at best getting their weeklies done, stick to ppt karma trains or simply log for extended periods of time if severely outnumbered. Meanwhile among the few dedicated that are left, a great chunk either has alt accounts left and right or they transfer around.

I take the issues with WR very serious, but the way things have been going for years is far more frightening to me than taking a risk with WR, even without alliances. If that means moving forward and resetting the game mode to get better quality game play or force organization on players, I'd rather take that rout than another few years of the garbage that we have had the last few years.

I also believe the developers are seeing the same issue, while ALSO having the exact numbers at hand. That's why alliances/restructuring was considered YEARS ago, around the same time as PoF and Season 4. Reminder: THE season 4 which was supposed to END the game, which was my guess the ultimate reason as to why the decision was made to shelve alliance/wr back then. Now years later, the numbers are FAR FAR worse and the developers have been trying to get something working but might be lacking the man power to actually pull it off.

You want server identity, don't worry, without significant rework and change you will have server identity up until there is no game left. Stay blind to the shifts in actually WvW. This game mode used to be FULL evenings deep into the night, and not only on reset for 3-4 hours and it's become a shadow of its former self.

It's mind-boggling to me how ANY veteran can look past where the mode has been and where it is now and still believe everything will be fine.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Mabi black.1824]

51 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

It takes a mentally challenged person to believe that a simple "let's stay with this system and everything will be fine" will work.

GW2 and especially WWW are definitely an MMO game of the highest level. But no one here supports what I quoted.

On the contrary, as I wrote above, WWW needs many small things, constantly implemented and updated, we have already had comparisons on these topics, and I do not want to deal with them yet. At least until the developmental kids have finally matured that WR is not necessary, it is not useful, if it is not contextualized in our game mode. without alliances and with a reshuffle every 8 weeks making the teams and the comparison between them completely useless, WR will not help anyone, you will only bring other new problems.

If someone suggests that the only solution to your problems is to throw you out the window, who is the mentally disturbed one? What he says wait a minute , is it really the only solution? Or it's the one who takes and throws himself down just because someone suggested it.

[Cyninja.2954]

16 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

GW2 and especially WWW are definitely an MMO game of the highest level. But no one here supports what I quoted.

On the contrary, as I wrote above, WWW needs many small things, constantly implemented and updated, we have already had comparisons on these topics, and I do not want to deal with them yet. At least until the developmental kids have finally matured that WR is not necessary, it is not useful, if it is not contextualized in our game mode. without alliances and with a reshuffle every 8 weeks making the teams and the comparison between them completely useless, WR will not help anyone, you will only bring other new problems.

If someone suggests that the only solution to your problems is to throw you out the window, who is the mentally disturbed one? What he says wait a minute , is it really the only solution? Or it's the one who takes and throws himself down just because someone suggested it.

and yet, from a design perspective, WR tackled a lot of issues which are fundamentally flawed with the current system even during the limited betas.

Again, if you think "small continuous changes" will somehow save this mode or even get it fixed, then we both have a very different understanding or interpretation of what this mode needs both now as well as for future proofing it. Fixed servers do not and are not able to adapt to shifting player numbers in either direction. The current make shift implementation of linking servers is inferior to designing an actual system with reshuffled servers (while also being severely limited in comparison). It's also very frustrating that the main benefit of WR, the actual potential increase and decrease of active worlds, gets ignored or not understood by many players, limiting their arguments to "reshuffling of players" without understanding the wider picture.

If you believe that an aging game, where a mode which has seen years of neglect will suddenly get continuous and adapting support, well then I am giving you a good luck. I do not believe this to be even remotely a reasonable assumption or possibility, but you are free to believe in what you want. Meanwhile the developers are automating even their main cash cow: PvE content.

and that's basically what separates players on this issue: some players are stuck with the old, in some deluded belief that this system can be saved either because they do not or can not see the degradation of the game mode (maybe not having been with the mode for the entire time). Other players are willing to risk a shake up with hopes that this intervention will lead to more improvements versus new detriments.

My belief is the developers are trying for the second approach still, because they know that they neither have the resources to commit to this mode, nor does the trajectory of the player base indicate that the mode will remain sustainable. It's this rework or none at all basically, and if things do not improve, well we can take a look at Spvp where a game mode can end up.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Mabi black.1824]

54 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Fixed servers do not and are not able to adapt to shifting player numbers in either direction.

I would like to wait for the participation of someone insiders, before entering into a constructive confrontation with you, but since you are always an interesting person to reason with, and since I have never seen a single comment from someone from the development in practically 3 years of forum, I will still try to forward in what you wrote.

I agree with you that teams and static servers forever cannot be easily managed by anyone in terms of similar matches and credible competition, indeed let's say that they are boring. therefore. If Anet grants us this new WR mechanic, what's your problem if we only make WR work 1 time a year?

And again. When you make wr work what prevents us from creating 27 teams in EU from 2000 players ( stupid number for 5 games ) rather than 45 teams of 1200 players and play matches of 3 teams vs 3 teams vs 3 teams? Some sort of hybrid system? So that players who play in reference to their team, will be able to do it again? Even if only for a 12-month season?

So as not to give up a priori to a WWW still based on a team concept. So that players have a tool to compare themselves honestly, and always know where they are in the ranking compared to everyone else?

And while we get all this, why can't we ask Anet to overhaul the transfer system? Can we make sure that they do not affect the size of a team beyond its 5% just by hypothesis?

With this we do not add much work to Anet. We're just thinking freely about how to take advantage of WR's new mechanics, and avoid unpleasant surprises. Why can't we have a constructive discussion about all this with development? Does Perhce PVE have MegaServer? WVW is not PVE. 

And if WR is just a megaserver-style algorithm that works automatically every 8 weeks. then, thank you but perhaps it is better to avoid. Time and wasted work. Better to think about many other small more interesting things.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

And if WR is just a megaserver-style algorithm that works automatically every 8 weeks. then, thank you but perhaps it is better to avoid.

Good then that it’s not even close to megaserver tech?

We already have “megaserver WvW”. It’s called EoTM. You are free to avoid it. I know I do.

[joneirikb.7506]

Seriously, ANet just put rewards back into EotM, same as in WvW, then we can see which is the most popular mode.

[MalekithDG.6124]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:23 AM, Illustratr.9054 said:

Some of y'all post so much I wonder how much WvW you actually play. o/

Not much man. Forums are not for hanging with people you love. They are essentially rooms where you believe, if you screamed loud enough, would make your voices heard. The gameplay had let us down long time ago. We are now here drinking our sorrows away while hoping the better.

Edited October 9, 2023 by MalekithDG.6124

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Seriously, ANet just put rewards back into EotM, same as in WvW, then we can see which is the most popular mode.

Ironically you just made one of the best cases for adding things into EotM that I have seen in a long while. 🙂 Pips and mounts and upped participations, lets go.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 minutes ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

Not much man. Forums are not for hanging with people you love. They are essentially rooms where you believe, if you screamed loud enough, would make your voices heard. The gameplay has let us down long time ago. We are now here drinking our sorrows away while hoping the better.

Its also some where some of us go while not being able to be in game.

[Chaba.5410]

27 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Its also some where some of us go while not being able to be in game.

Envision an app that allowed you to log into team chat while not in game.  Block list would probably grow longer.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Envision an app that allowed you to log into team chat while not in game.  Block list would probably grow longer.

lol, no one needs to read team chat while not in game. Xen keeps trying to collect marbles that have come loose but that is too far indeed. 

Now that said, on a flip note and less joking, I wouldn't mind seeing WvW chat in the guild hall. Since they tie us there to craft guild siege and wait while bars cross the screen being able to see defense call outs would be handy as we wait for siege to assembled in case extra players would help.

Edited October 10, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
expanded

[Chips.7968]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:43 AM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

For people that think World Restructuring is different from Alliances, can you explain how they are different?

It's taken, what, 4 years to get to this point? How are they different? Easy, they've bought themselves another 4 years of work with misdirection. It stops people asking questions for a year at least, and 3 years before they need to worry about how many questions people ask.

As for the outcome, it'll change nothing anyway. It's become a magical panacea for all WvW issues - except if it ever arrives, people will release it isn't doing what they hoped remotely. Because it wasn't *the* issue.

[Dawdler.8521]

12 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

As for the outcome, it'll change nothing anyway. It's become a magical panacea for all WvW issues - except if it ever arrives, people will release it isn't doing what they hoped remotely. Because it wasn't *the* issue.

It’s only magical for the people that don’t want it or don’t understand it, for some reason. The rest knows what it is. 

[Mabi black.1824]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:53 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

You want server identity, don't worry, without significant rework and change you will have server identity up until there is no game left

I don't want to keep anything. I wrote above that I find interesting the idea of resetting all teams 1 time per year. how to say , new year, wvw new. It is however a remarkable change, compared to '' Server forever '' in this way, moreover, the player maintains the experience of participating in this mode as a team, indeed like many competing teams.

On the other hand, I am afraid of the idea that the player has the feeling of being bounced left and right every 8 weeks, not understanding the reason and purpose for proposing content, having the feeling of being just a filler in the name of balance. Lose forever the feeling of participation as a team, because you know it's your team. I don't have more references inside WWW, who am I playing against? Where is my team compared to all the others?

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I don't want to keep anything. I wrote above that I find interesting the idea of resetting all teams 1 time per year. how to say , new year, wvw new. It is however a remarkable change, compared to '' Server forever '' in this way, moreover, the player maintains the experience of participating in this mode as a team, indeed like many competing teams.

On the other hand, I am afraid of the idea that the player has the feeling of being bounced left and right every 8 weeks, not understanding the reason and purpose for proposing content, having the feeling of being just a filler in the name of balance. Lose forever the feeling of participation as a team, because you know it's your team. I don't have more references inside WWW, who am I playing against? Where is my team compared to all the others?

So for background over a decade I switched servers once. So have been on just two servers over the decade. On the first I started in T1 and stayed all the way over 2 years to T8 as guilds bandwagonned off and you could see how even roamers could impact scores during the long fall. Rejoined an Alliance WAR Guild of NA Warhammer players after an extended time in T8. Been there since. In WAR you choose a side and a number would stay the course from server to server as servers were removed and comprised down. In GW2 where they didn't,  people just jumped servers. So there are mixed thoughts there. I won't apply plus or negatives to either approach just point out there are differences to both.

So what I have found is this; some people will see things as just themselves, some will see issues as their group, some will see things as their tag, some will see things as their guild, and some will see things as their server. Personally I can't quantify the differences and I am not sure that even with Anet's numbers we could quantify those differences. I don't disagree people want better matches. I agree with Mabi, during beta's there was more running away overall and less players aiding their server mates since they didn't recognize the names. Is that good or bad when considering rematching every 8 weeks? That's the question. 

[Mabi black.1824]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:53 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

It's mind-boggling to me how ANY veteran can look past where the mode has been and where it is now and still believe everything will be fine.

Surely we all have different experiences and sensations within WWW. Last night (Tuesday) when I left WWW it was 01.00 at night and you could still choose where to find content because it was available on more maps.

I personally am stunned every night, to see how WWW is still there 11 years later, with still a fair number of players, from communities, who just want to play and different together. You can't magically erase 11 years and pretend that WWW is like new, with the streams that a new game can get just because it's new.

And if you think about it not even WR or alliances are intended to erase 11 years of this game and recover who knows what flow of players by magic and bring everything back to ''Day 1''. I'm sorry that won't happen. and I don't care. I prefer to look ahead, to all those who have remained, and all those who will continue to come and go, in this madlity of play.

So, returning to the merits, WR and alliances arrive, because many players have repeatedly asked to have / get more balanced / similar matches. But probably no one imagined that getting to this small '' improvement '' would simultaneously lead to the cancellation of the team / server concept on which WWW is practically built / designed.

And that is the only reason why we are here at the moment to reason together with you and I. If, instead, we want to talk about where WWW is today 11 years later and what could be useful to implement to bring more players into WWW. I guess we should talk/suggest something else. 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

17 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Surely we all have different experiences and sensations within WWW. Last night (Tuesday) when I left WWW it was 01.00 at night and you could still choose where to find content because it was available on more maps.

I personally am stunned every night, to see how WWW is still there 11 years later, with still a fair number of players, from communities, who just want to play and different together. You can't magically erase 11 years and pretend that WWW is like new, with the streams that a new game can get just because it's new.

I didn't claim there was no content or never some semblance of decent content, especially during reset, shortly after relinks (imagine that) and over the weekend (occasionally).

Your subjective experience is irrelevant to the decline which can be seen and IS statistically measurable that this game mode has been facing.

Your position can be tl;dr as: I don't see the problems so everything must be fine.

Also you are disingenuous lumping together 11 years of very different WvW content. WvW pre linkings was a very different experience versus WvW post relinks. WvW post relinks was a very different experience versus WvW post relinks without language consideration (this might be less an issue on NA, but was a huge issue on EU. Given NA WvW is in a worse state than EU, not sure that is the direction we should be heading).

Quote

And if you think about it not even WR or alliances are intended to erase 11 years of this game and recover who knows what flow of players by magic and bring everything back to ''Day 1''. I'm sorry that won't happen. and I don't care. I prefer to look ahead, to all those who have remained, and all those who will continue to come and go, in this madlity of play.

TL;DR: nothing should be done to a system which has proven that it does not work. That's considered looking ahead.

Quote

 

So, returning to the merits, WR and alliances arrive, because many players have repeatedly asked to have / get more balanced / similar matches. But probably no one imagined that getting to this small '' improvement '' would simultaneously lead to the cancellation of the team / server concept on which WWW is practically built / designed.

And that is the only reason why we are here at the moment to reason together with you and I. If, instead, we want to talk about where WWW is today 11 years later and what could be useful to implement to bring more players into WWW. I guess we should talk/suggest something else. 

 

A very doubtful interpretation of WHY many players want more healthy match-ups and conveniently one which fits your narrative. The far simpler explanation might be: players want healthier match-ups because they hope/believe those will be more fun. Period. How many consider needing a permanent server allegiance in order to be able to enjoy the mode is subjective hogwash.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Cyninja.2954]

34 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So for background over a decade I switched servers once. So have been on just two servers over the decade. On the first I started in T1 and stayed all the way over 2 years to T8 as guilds bandwagonned off and you could see how even roamers could impact scores during the long fall. Rejoined an Alliance WAR Guild of NA Warhammer players after an extended time in T8. Been there since. In WAR you choose a side and a number would stay the course from server to server as servers were removed and comprised down. In GW2 where they didn't,  people just jumped servers. So there are mixed thoughts there. I won't apply plus or negatives to either approach just point out there are differences to both.

So what I have found is this; some people will see things as just themselves, some will see issues as their group, some will see things as their tag, some will see things as their guild, and some will see things as their server. Personally I can't quantify the differences and I am not sure that even with Anet's numbers we could quantify those differences. I don't disagree people want better matches. I agree with Mabi, during beta's there was more running away overall and less players aiding their server mates since they didn't recognize the names. Is that good or bad when considering rematching every 8 weeks? That's the question. 

I played WO too and while I doubt we will see the same situation happen here (the game shutting down due to IP costs), it is a great reminder of where a stagnant and dysfunctional system can lead.

WO, as much as I enjoyed it, had to go through multiple attempts at re-balancing their RvR border rules, some which ended in absolute abandonment of the conflict (requiring a certain minimum amount of enemies to be able to flip), others not being able to deal with a drastic over-representation of 1 side (release seeing Chaos dominate Order many times over). Now a 2 sided system automatically plays out very differently than a 3 sided system, and in that regard there is an advantage to WvW here. That falls apart though at some of the extremes of population imbalance we are seeing in game and have been seeing for a while.

My experience with the betas was drastically different (and I am guessing subjective experience and personal preparation had to do with is). What I saw was:

- the experience was shaped a lot by being part of a guild or not

- a lot more random tags tagging up and random players trying to make something happen

- an even greater language barrier issue

- a lot more guild activity on border versus EotM scrims

- a far higher activity across all servers even WITH all the lack of coordination and general confusion going around

EDIT:

as to NA versus EU, NA seems smaller compared to EU. On EU most small to mid-scale groups have left the border by now (10-25 players), replaced by blobs or off to scrim in EotM. This is in part due to balance but also in part to huge blob guilds, over-stacked servers and the resulting behavior of "guess I'll log if we are not dominating/have superior numbers". The rest is explained by karma trains which different servers run at different hours.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Mabi black.1824]

27 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

My experience with the betas was drastically different (and I am guessing subjective experience and personal preparation had to do with is). What I saw was:

- the experience was shaped a lot by being part of a guild or not

- a lot more random tags tagging up and random players trying to make something happen

- an even greater language barrier issue

- a lot more guild activity on border versus EotM scrims

- a far higher activity across all servers even WITH all the lack of coordination and general confusion going around

My experience was quite similar to yours. We must also consider that just because it is a new thing, it naturally stimulates the interest and attention of the player. If where to confess here, I can tell you that I would like to have wr (and also alliances) and make him work 1 time a year. So the deadlines that you will have in WWW and that you can not miss are:

every weekend with 1 up and 1 down and new opponents.

every 2 months when team pairings change.

every 12 months When the season ends, prizes are handed out according to the ranking and general reset of all server

I like that. And since I am particularly proposed, I would also suggest 2 mini seasonal events in WWW during the year. when we know we have more free time and potentially more active participants. one in the winter holidays and one in the summer holidays. something that lasts 15 days and involves all the teams.

There would be 2 other events not to be missed during the year. This kind of thing that you know comes during the year with precise cadences, helps, especially in a long-term perspective.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

57 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

every 2 months when team pairings change.

every 12 months When the season ends, prizes are handed out according to the ranking and general reset of all server

These two points remain as incompatible with each other as it was the first time you suggested it.

If a rank 1 team gets paired with a rank 20 team the last 2 months of a 12 month period, do they get rank 1 prize or rank 20 prize  🤔

[Mabi black.1824]

26 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

These two points remain as incompatible with each other as it was the first time you suggested it.

If a rank 1 team gets paired with a rank 20 team the last 2 months of a 12 month period, do they get rank 1 prize or rank 20 prize  🤔

No, each new seasonal server accrues its points week after week, independently. During the 12-month season, your new and seasonal server will be paired 6 times with other servers bi-monthly. ( if you want we can also imagine it 12 times on a monthly basis ) no matter who you are playing with. If your team wins the week it accrues +1 point if it draws it gets 0 points if it loses it gets -1 points. or something like that.

and when wr worksA to generate new servers, we could get more, and slightly smaller in size. In exact number that can guarantee a match (double or triple) to all teams and in all 5 matches in EU (4 in Na).

[Dawdler.8521]

14 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

No, each new seasonal server accrues its points week after week, independently. During the 12-month season, your new and seasonal server will be paired 6 times with other servers bi-monthly. ( if you want we can also imagine it 12 times on a monthly basis ) no matter who you are playing with. If your team wins the week it accrues +1 point if it draws it gets 0 points if it loses it gets -1 points. or something like that.

and when wr worksA to generate new servers, we could get more, and slightly smaller in size. In exact number that can guarantee a match (double or triple) to all teams and in all 5 matches in EU (4 in Na).

Oh so if rank 1 team gets the kitten luck of being paired to rank 20 team and thus start loosing it will specifically loose points because of a team it’s been fighting before, despite the fact it’s supposed to be individual. 

You know, there is actually a reason why server rank based rewards in a 24/7 365 day a year mode has already been done and concluded to be a horrible idea and that’s why we no longer have it. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Mabi black.1824]

35 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Oh so if rank 1 team gets the kitten luck of being paired to rank 20 team and thus start loosing it will specifically loose points because of a team it’s been fighting before, despite the fact it’s supposed to be individual. 

You know, there is actually a reason why server rank based rewards in a 24/7 365 day a year mode has already been done and concluded to be a horrible idea and that’s why we no longer have it. 

So, this round we could get WR, the servers are regenerated and rebuilt every 12 months, so as to get teams with similar activities to each other, or at least within acceptable parameters. in theory. it is no longer rank 1 or rank 20. They are teams that are symous to each other. Certainly in these similar teams there will be the most capable / organized and the less capable and less organized. Some will earn points others will lose points. You don't have to complain if all things being equal or in different but acceptable conditions, you will find better teams than yours. What matters is to participate, not to win. What matters is to give a reference to people, so that they can compare and improve.

Giving a prize at the end of the season, it's not horrible. It could just be a strawberry candy, a consumable that lasts 30 minutes, as far as I'm concerned. Its power is the symbolic one is just something that you put at the top of the top step of the podium. Just because you know that it is there and that the best or luckiest team has the right to get, because it has surpassed all the others. A bit of a problem that we have repeatedly faced, when you read that in WWW win or lose It counts for nothing.

[Dawdler.8521]

40 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

So, this round we could get WR, the servers are regenerated and rebuilt every 12 months, so as to get teams with similar activities to each other, or at least within acceptable parameters.

Where did the 2 months go?

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

So, this round we could get WR, the servers are regenerated and rebuilt every 12 months, so as to get teams with similar activities to each other, or at least within acceptable parameters. in theory. it is no longer rank 1 or rank 20. They are teams that are symous to each other. Certainly in these similar teams there will be the most capable / organized and the less capable and less organized. Some will earn points others will lose points. You don't have to complain if all things being equal or in different but acceptable conditions, you will find better teams than yours. What matters is to participate, not to win. What matters is to give a reference to people, so that they can compare and improve.

Giving a prize at the end of the season, it's not horrible. It could just be a strawberry candy, a consumable that lasts 30 minutes, as far as I'm concerned. Its power is the symbolic one is just something that you put at the top of the top step of the podium. Just because you know that it is there and that the best or luckiest team has the right to get, because it has surpassed all the others. A bit of a problem that we have repeatedly faced, when you read that in WWW win or lose It counts for nothing.

Here is the issue I have with your suggestion:

It seems like a desperate attempt at somehow fitting a rectangular object through a circle hole.

You are trying to somehow fit a static server system into a design which is not meant for static servers. I've said this in the past, I'll say it again: this leads to a half-backed intermediate system which full-fills neither approach well. With what goal exactly? Only so you can stamp "server pride" on there?

That's without addressing some of the flaws:

- having a so long fixed server system without allowing players to switch servers will lead to a lot of issues in regards to players unhappy with their server. Currently those players happily transfer around (which causes its own set of issues, still it is a choice full-filled). Allowing transfers leads back to the problems we have now.

- alt accounts. Not even going to bother to expand on this because it should be very obvious which issues these create for balance in general

- an attempt at a competitive system without a reward or incentive to actually win. Very similar to the current system where reaching tier 1 is not even desired by most servers and being "stuck" in tier 1 can be a horrible experience

- stacking of servers as well as servers full of inactive players. If seasonal servers are larger than guilds, this will lead to issues. If seasonal servers are similar size or smaller than guild, what is the point? Not to mention, as a season grows older and more and more players become inactive, how are they removed from a seasonal server? If they are not removed regularly seasonal servers will accumulate more and more inactive players. Now if a server "opens up" depending on activity, I'm giving you a chance to figure out what players will do (and they have been doing it for years in current WvW)

- you have 0 explanation for how your point system is supposed to work if players are matched not via servers but via guilds. Nor have you considered how manipulation of such a system would be easy. Hint: dedicate some high point servers, dedicate some low score servers, manipulate the matches accordingly, transfer last minute as many players as possible to the high point server leaving every player not in the loop, essentially most randoms and more casual players, out to dry

 

I personally would rather have a fully committed system in either direction. Since I doubt the developers want to merge, reshuffle, redesign servers on a regular basis, an automated system makes more sense for them to implement. It makes far more sense to design the game around such a system and try to improve and shape the player experience there than Frankenstein doctor around the old system.

I also just don't see the reasoning. I keep hearing over and over: I enjoy playing on my server. Do you? Is your server the primarily responsible for a good WvW experience? Or is it the guilds, players, the enemy servers, the moment to moment game play? How many players care about the score from 2 matches ago? I bet the new weeklies and wizard vault have had a far larger impact on WvW interactions and game play than ANY server pride or allegiance has had for years (hint: let's let SM fall for the weekly). How fun is that server of yours when no one is on from the other 2 servers to play with? What about the other way around? How much ppt/karma train can one take without going insane?

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cyninja.2954