Ele is trash

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

If you play plat in NA you'll see a lot of solid Ele's doing very well.   You get folks like that Newholiday, grimjack's various incarnations, etc. etc.   If you take holiday, his side node can bunker and still dish out a lot of condi damage.  The CC it has basically gives it a win against glassier classes that have few stunbreaks and stab access.   It repeatedly does very well.   You get folks running glassier, burstier variants.. but the one I have the most trouble with is the one that can eat my glass burst and then CC the crap out of you while piling on stacks of burn.   It works well side node and is useful in a team fight.   It's a great option and I am always happy to have a strong player of that on my team... Maybe your in Europe and the players run different things?

Youre missing the point, ele sustain is still good when you spec for it, but the condi output is not good. Other condi specs don't take the same hit, becuase their primary condi weapon has not been nerfed into the ground. Do you even agree the scepter condi damage has been butchered?

Btw, ele is one of the easier condi dps to cleanse. Im trying to think of what is easier, their is porbably something. Even when condi cata was op (and I repeatadly told people this) Cent rev support hard countered it, but not many like to play supports, let alone cent. Then and now, I strugle with true condi specs on cent support, far more than eles, who for the most part only stack 2 damage types.

 

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

See, right there ^ This is what I'm talking about.

You act like it was normal or standard or balanced for an Ele to be able to spam 7k burn ticks with just auto 1 spam.

I rest my case.

Go into my post history and you will see multiple posts suggesting high auto attack damage is kitten.. I don't care if its condi or power, and it applys to any class/spec. I repeatadly suggested the scepter condi damage should have been spread across other dodgable abilitys, and even some condi damage put onto fire grab, which is a close range risk/reward ability. That may have came at the cost of lower power dmg on grab and other abilitys to account for the extra condi damage w/e. It simply means more weapons are usable in both power and condi, which opens up spec diversity, which isnt a bad thing right?

 

You also completely avoided my other points. Why do you think FA ele should have such low hp, and such high punishment for slight mistakes while it only pumps out average damage? You know for a fact the likes of SB/warrior/necero are far easier to pump out damage with, infact even untamed is not that hard to pump out damage, neither is chrono. Whats the justification?

 

Many specs are too easy in the way they apply damage. Now, true, it is not easy to unlock the survival of some specs like chrono.. but survival is a secondary issues if the target is dead, and if your pressure is easy/reliable enough to put people on the back foot almost by default, that is an offensive form of mitigation. LB SB has such easy reliable operners for example, and reliable CC/melee dps with access to instant stability, its almost foolproof in being able to spew out 15-20 seconds worth of high damage and forcing nothing but reactionary game play from the opponent, and I say that from being on both sides of it.

 

Get yourself on an FA mura ele build (zerker if you know the spec well enough), use scepter/dagger or dagger/dagger, try and work in firegrabs, since its the only decent single hit damage left. Then jump on LB SB, you'll see exactly what I mean. So much safer, so much more reliable damage.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Master Ketsu.4569]

12 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

That is a load of bs.

Both post-SOTO MAT Finalists ran a cata on their team.  If it was bad, top teams wouldn't be running it.

Furthermore Tempest is considered SS+ God tier in 2v2 with nearly everyone in Ranked plat+ running it atm.

Just accept the fact that you have an L2P problem if you are not stomping games with ele rn because it's easily still one of the best classes in the game.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Both post-SOTO MAT Finalists ran a cata on their team.  If it was bad, top teams wouldn't be running it.

Furthermore Tempest is considered SS+ God tier in 2v2 with nearly everyone in Ranked plat+ running it atm.

Just accept the fact that you have an L2P problem if you are not stomping games with ele rn because it's easily still one of the best classes in the game.

 

 

 

 

Top level players are not the argument, and never should be when we are discussing skill floors. That fact that top level players get the most out of cata skill ceiling is far beyound the point. Furthermore, power cata was the least impacted from the over nerfs, which destroyed ALL condi specs and other power builds that were not cata, but depended more on the coefficiants.

 

Why are you avoiding the fact that power ele (of any spec) has an unreasonably high skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes, compared to MANY other specs that achieve the same or more damage with a much lower skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes? You are also avoiding the fact that the condi damage on eles primary condi weapon has been nerfed into the ground with 0 compensation to condi damage in any way. Why are you avoiding that?

 

Be specific and name the current viable power specs that have a higher skill floor, less sustain/mitigation(mobility included), and less burst/damage than power ele? What spec/s fit that exact criteria?

 

You need to come up with something decent here.. becuase currently condi ele of any sort is outclassed by any decent condi spec+easily clensed or kited by multiple power specs (wilbender, vindi, scrapper, hollow, etc). Then, there are also multiple FAR easier burst/dueslist specs to play for very similar if not more reward across classes. So should the majority of eles (whow are not vets) just expect to get their faces pushed into the mud at low/mid levels against similar level players on classes that easier pump out the same or more damage? and they can only expect to begin reliably doing well on ele when they reach plat level skill? sounds legit.

 

Has anybody here even tried condi ele, or FA ele with zeker 12k/maura 16k recently? Like, play it for a month or so to compare with other specs, which is what I've at least done, and its completely evident to me that ele is way more effort than its worth compared to all the current viable specs ive played.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Top level players are not the argument, and never should be when we are discussing skill floors. That fact that top level players get the most out of cata skill ceiling is far beyound the point. Furthermore, power cata was the least impacted from the over nerfs, which destroyed ALL condi specs and other power builds that were not cata, but depended more on the coefficiants.

 

Why are you avoiding the fact that power ele (of any spec) has an unreasonably high skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes, compared to MANY other specs that achieve the same or more damage with a much lower skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes? You are also avoiding the fact that the condi damage on eles primary condi weapon has been nerfed into the ground with 0 compensation to condi damage in any way. Why are you avoiding that?

 

Be specific and name the current viable power specs that have a higher skill floor, less sustain/mitigation(mobility included), and less burst/damage than power ele? What spec/s fit that exact criteria?

 

You need to come up with something decent here.. becuase currently condi ele of any sort is outclassed by any decent condi spec+easily clensed or kited by multiple power specs (wilbender, vindi, scrapper, hollow, etc). Then, there are also multiple FAR easier burst/dueslist specs to play for very similar if not more reward across classes. So should the majority of eles (whow are not vets) just expect to get their faces pushed into the mud at low/mid levels against similar level players on classes that easier pump out the same or more damage? and they can only expect to begin reliably doing well on ele when they reach plat level skill? sounds legit.

 

Has anybody here even tried condi ele, or FA ele with zeker 12k/maura 16k recently? Like, play it for a month or so to compare with other specs, which is what I've at least done, and its completely evident to me that ele is way more effort than its worth compared to all the current viable specs ive played.

I stopped answering when I saw you pulling the “no I swear it is not that strong. Why cannot you see it?”. How about you answer then?

If ele is strong enough to be meta, gives enough flexibility to deal with multiple scenarios what will happen the moment you “just” raise the skill floor or “just” raise the numbers? You end up with 5 ele teams. So the next obvious question is “What will ele give up to not make the ceiling absurd? Sustain? Targeting? Anything?”. I know what the answer is going to be so there is no point talking about it.

As I said I picked scepter ele for the first time last season, played it the all season. Precisely what you asked for! I still got mid plat 1 precisely because I had ways to deal with multiple situations. Good mobility, damage, decent sustain. This is why I find it hard to “just” give buffs.

Edited October 27, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I stopped answering when I saw you pulling the “no I swear it is not that strong. Why cannot you see it?”. How about you answer then?

If ele is strong enough to be meta, gives enough flexibility to deal with multiple scenarios what will happen the moment you “just” raise the skill floor or “just” raise the numbers? You end up with 5 ele teams. So the next obvious question is “What will ele give up to not make the ceiling absurd? Sustain? Targeting? Anything?”. I know what the answer is going to be so there is no point talking about it.

As I said I picked scepter ele for the first time last season, played it the all season. Precisely what you asked for! I still got mid plat 1 precisely because I had ways to deal with multiple situations. Good mobility, damage, decent sustain. This is why I find it hard to “just” give buffs.

Oh what a shock, a good player got into plat. What spec did you play specifically?

 

Again youve avoided every point ive made. Adress the points and stop diverting, or just stop responding.

[aymnad.9023]

26 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Oh what a shock, a good player got into plat. What spec did you play specifically?

 

Again youve avoided every point ive made. Adress the points and stop diverting, or just stop responding.

I already did explain why it was strong, people showed you that it was still played and you are once again trying to dodge it. Start answering to how buffs will not make the skill ceiling absurdly strong and maybe some people will reconsider.

Edited October 27, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Flowki.7194]

23 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I already did explain why it was strong, people showed you that it was still played and you are once again trying to dodge it. Start answering to how buffs will not make the skill ceiling absurdly strong and maybe some people will reconsider.

I have not dodged a single thing. Cata or tempest in the hands of a VET/plat player will still perfom upto plat, clearly. That means your personal example is redundent. You completely ignored the fact that I said this is not about ele in the hands of vets. Its about ele in the hands of normal players AND ele in the hands of condi players OR players (like weaver) who took a completely needless nerf to scepter coefficiants. You avoided all of that, becuase you know you are wrong. I mean its an easy comparison.. are you suggesting any current newb on cata is going to get to plat before a newb warrior? are you suggesting all meta or ''good'' builds have the same skill floors and punishments for mistakes? and have also had their condi damage completely stripped?

 

Again, read that post and adress it, or just stop responding.

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Top level players are not the argument, and never should be when we are discussing skill floors. That fact that top level players get the most out of cata skill ceiling is far beyound the point. Furthermore, power cata was the least impacted from the over nerfs, which destroyed ALL condi specs and other power builds that were not cata, but depended more on the coefficiants.

 

Why are you avoiding the fact that power ele (of any spec) has an unreasonably high skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes, compared to MANY other specs that achieve the same or more damage with a much lower skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes? You are also avoiding the fact that the condi damage on eles primary condi weapon has been nerfed into the ground with 0 compensation to condi damage in any way. Why are you avoiding that?

 

Be specific and name the current viable power specs that have a higher skill floor, less sustain/mitigation(mobility included), and less burst/damage than power ele? What spec/s fit that exact criteria?

 

You need to come up with something decent here.. becuase currently condi ele of any sort is outclassed by any decent condi spec+easily clensed or kited by multiple power specs (wilbender, vindi, scrapper, hollow, etc). Then, there are also multiple FAR easier burst/dueslist specs to play for very similar if not more reward across classes. So should the majority of eles (whow are not vets) just expect to get their faces pushed into the mud at low/mid levels against similar level players on classes that easier pump out the same or more damage? and they can only expect to begin reliably doing well on ele when they reach plat level skill? sounds legit.

 

Has anybody here even tried condi ele, or FA ele with zeker 12k/maura 16k recently? Like, play it for a month or so to compare with other specs, which is what I've at least done, and its completely evident to me that ele is way more effort than its worth compared to all the current viable specs ive played.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Top level players are not the argument. That fact that top level players get the most out of cata skill ceiling is far beyond the point.

Yes because a class/build being used in every winning MAT comp and every runner up comp, often being stacked with multiple of the same build on one team, has absolutely nothing to do with the reflection of its performance value.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

12 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yes because a class/build being used in every winning MAT comp and every runner up comp, often being stacked with multiple of the same build on one team, has absolutely nothing to do with the reflection of its performance value.

kitten these teams full of core Elementalists in MAT's 24/7. :V

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yes because a class/build being used in every winning MAT comp and every runner up comp, often being stacked with multiple of the same build on one team, has absolutely nothing to do with the reflection of its performance value.

Class effectiveness / Class difficulty. Two complete different things, unless you would like to make the case that condi zerker/blade take as much effort as ele?

 

I'll never forget taking on, and winning 1v2s after a few hours of playing blade. I must have just forgot to bind keys on hammer cata... or something.

 

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

kitten these teams full of core Elementalists in MAT's 24/7. :V

Im currently playing core ele. The damage reductions can be felt that much, Im taking fire over specialisation just to keep up with other classes dps. Ele took nothing but nerfs, and nobody but f2p were playing core before those nerfs, do the math. Core ele is also more punishing than tempest/weaver/cata, for obvious reasons that you should well know.

Is ele the only usable core spec right now? you know it isn't. Are those mat players vet/plat level?

 

If core ele was so effective and so easy, they would be all over ranked and unranked, but they are not now, nor in the past as long as I played. There is a reason the average ranked game has upto 4 necros, consistantly across time. Plenty of warrior representation, mech engis, and so on. Not knocking these players but do you think the easier/lower skill floor mechanics of such specs have no baring on their popularity? High skill ceiling is another thing, I know these specs have very good players using them, but I don't get why people wanne pretend all specs give equal and linear reward from newb status upto plat level.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Bunbury.8472]

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I have not dodged a single thing. Cata or tempest in the hands of a VET/plat player will still perfom upto plat, clearly. That means your personal example is redundent. You completely ignored the fact that I said this is not about ele in the hands of vets. Its about ele in the hands of normal players AND ele in the hands of condi players OR players (like weaver) who took a completely needless nerf to scepter coefficiants.

Iconic take, Flowki isn't even complaining ele is bad, just that they are too low skill to play it. They recognise a good player can play the class in plat and ATs.

We get this great line.

5 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Oh what a shock, a good player got into plat. 

I love it. A good player on ele being in plat is no shock, I think I get it now. Flowki wants an ele build that carries a low skill player to plat.

The current ele builds are too hard for Flowki. Sure maybe grimjack can play them well, but that's too much skill. @aymnad.9023 also got to plat, but they are a good player & it's easy for good players to play ele in plat. So there needs to be a new balance patch so Flowki can play ele in plat without getting better at playing ele, because if ele is good but complex to play the answer is to make it more powerful rather than learning to play it.... 🫣

[Flowki.7194]

55 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

Iconic take, Flowki isn't even complaining ele is bad, just that they are too low skill to play it. They recognise a good player can play the class in plat and ATs.

We get this great line.

I love it. A good player on ele being in plat is no shock, I think I get it now. Flowki wants an ele build that carries a low skill player to plat.

The current ele builds are too hard for Flowki. Sure maybe grimjack can play them well, but that's too much skill. @aymnad.9023 also got to plat, but they are a good player & it's easy for good players to play ele in plat. So there needs to be a new balance patch so Flowki can play ele in plat without getting better at playing ele, because if ele is good but complex to play the answer is to make it more powerful rather than learning to play it.... 🫣

Actually quite the opposite.. Id rather raise the skill floor of a number of other specs, so that they are actually enjoyable to play as and against, have decent risk/reward and punishments for mistakes/bad plays. Talk to me directly btw, you look like a kid trying way too hard to be edgy.

 

I think I'd start with giving thief more sustain and less crutch mobility/target drops.. to ensure they die for their bad engagement choices.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[magickthief.6492]

11 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Top level players are not the argument, and never should be when we are discussing skill floors. That fact that top level players get the most out of cata skill ceiling is far beyound the point. Furthermore, power cata was the least impacted from the over nerfs, which destroyed ALL condi specs and other power builds that were not cata, but depended more on the coefficiants.

 

Why are you avoiding the fact that power ele (of any spec) has an unreasonably high skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes, compared to MANY other specs that achieve the same or more damage with a much lower skill floor/risk/punishment for mistakes? You are also avoiding the fact that the condi damage on eles primary condi weapon has been nerfed into the ground with 0 compensation to condi damage in any way. Why are you avoiding that?

 

Be specific and name the current viable power specs that have a higher skill floor, less sustain/mitigation(mobility included), and less burst/damage than power ele? What spec/s fit that exact criteria?

 

You need to come up with something decent here.. becuase currently condi ele of any sort is outclassed by any decent condi spec+easily clensed or kited by multiple power specs (wilbender, vindi, scrapper, hollow, etc). Then, there are also multiple FAR easier burst/dueslist specs to play for very similar if not more reward across classes. So should the majority of eles (whow are not vets) just expect to get their faces pushed into the mud at low/mid levels against similar level players on classes that easier pump out the same or more damage? and they can only expect to begin reliably doing well on ele when they reach plat level skill? sounds legit.

 

Has anybody here even tried condi ele, or FA ele with zeker 12k/maura 16k recently? Like, play it for a month or so to compare with other specs, which is what I've at least done, and its completely evident to me that ele is way more effort than its worth compared to all the current viable specs ive played.

If you want to gank, play another class. I don't think anyone is on your side dude.

[Newholiday.8103]

I think ele overall is in a okay spot.  That said, calling staff support tempest 'meta' is dumb.  Like others mentioned, its pretty much only good in tournies or in the very rare occasion that you get an ideal team comp.  It's terrible at holding a point by itself, and hits like a wet noodle.  It has to offer a little more to be worth using in ranked matches.  Same could be said for other supports probably.

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Core ele is trash

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

If you want to gank, play another class. I don't think anyone is on your side dude.

Who said anything about me wanting to gank people? You have no idea what you are talking about, I have played all virsions of ele with all virsions of weapons, from support, bunker, duelist to glass, across all specs. What I am saying now, is you are FORCED into a very specific playstyle on ele, due to a huge reduction in viable off-meta power and condi specs that where not problomatic. With the combined nerfs, the class symoltaniously got less effective, and more punishing, which makes it hell to play for newer or less skilled players. That is not good game design when it is not the norm across all classes, infact it is the exception (bar thief). However, thief has the distinct advantedge of superior mobility, which is not rocket science to learn, allowing it to back cap all game.

 

My personal preference for ele was support, with the issues of playing full support, I then started playing hybrid support/condi, a compromise. I then started playing power builds along side, pre nerf.. becuase lets be fair, the game in general pushes you into DPS to do well as solo que. If condi was not destroyed on scepter, Id still be bouncing between power cata, and tempest hybrid support, depending on team comp.

 

12 hours ago, Newholiday.8103 said:

I think ele overall is in a okay spot.  That said, calling staff support tempest 'meta' is dumb.  Like others mentioned, its pretty much only good in tournies or in the very rare occasion that you get an ideal team comp.  It's terrible at holding a point by itself, and hits like a wet noodle.  It has to offer a little more to be worth using in ranked matches.  Same could be said for other supports probably.

 

I agree, but the same also applies to hammer cata. Putting high level plat/mats aside, we all know ranked is full of easy ground point spam, be it necros or DH's (If you play hammer cata you know its a nightmare to work around compared to the ease of ground spam). Along with that, side noders that are far easier to play (aside from hollow). Hammer cata strugles with condi bombs/sustained condi, and is easily left by specs like hollow in 1v1, which means they realistically have more chance of killing you, and you also have more chance of being +1d. In group fights you need a support, hammer has too little range, too little mobility, and too little condi clense to reliably pressure against good dps. These issues would not be the case if the matchmaking put players of same skill together, which would encourage more supports to play also. I have no doubt hammer cata would be strong af with a consistant equal skill level of teams, who don't let chronos/Lb rangers free cast from 1200+ all game, but that is not the current case.

 

10 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Core ele is trash

Yet for some reason it makes more sense to play scepter/dagger core ele atm. Ive tried various dagger and scepter tempest/cata builds and they are either not worth the effort for complecity or have decent sustain but pitiful damage.

 

Temespt is sustain is basically being carried by its utility/overloads but the overloads have always been a risky/ineficiant form of damage (go ahead and air overload into a group, compred to melee cleave or necro just dropping aoe). The overloads are a big part of ele mechanics, but in terms of doing damage they are below optimal in application, but as ele is pushed into power builds, while scepter/dagger MH damage is not great (unless pure glass), there is the issue, partial reliance on inneficiant overload damage. You can keep earth line for aura protection <lower damage and mobility. If you play more sustainy dps temest that is the cost, lower damage/mobility, which means you can be outburst, or simply kited.

 

Scepter cata is more complicated to play than core, but obviously gives aura/stability and more sustain utility, which comes at the cost of damage. Playing fire line instead of cata, you still get access to might, and you also get expulsion+fire grab landing after FA swap, which results in more damage at the cost of added risk and less active mitigation; more punishing for mistakes.

 

Basically, due to the nerfs, core pushes the damage back up to the level where you can much easier punish people for mistakes, at the cost of more risk and punishment for your own mistakes. Spellbreakers surely know what I am talking about here in terms of lower damage not allowing you to punish people who kittened up, multiple times. There are multiple specs that have the raw sustain/mechanics that stop theb being punished as easy, for blatent mistakes. That's pretty much it, the reason why I think ele (below plat leve) is simply not worth the effort anymore. Core is not as complex, and does more burst.. its far from ideal in overall risk compared to playing other classes, but the effort/reward ratios of core ele make more sense than playing weaver/tempest/cata.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Dreams.3128]

Meanwhile actual ele mains don't give two shts about condi ele and actually want a caster. I don't want a melee, I want a FA build that is solid. Yet, everytime we have these conversations it ends up with Power anything getting hit from Condi's transgressions and sins. 

PvP in this game is so kitten tiring.

[Flowki.7194]

25 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Meanwhile actual ele mains don't give two shts about condi ele and actually want a caster. I don't want a melee, I want a FA build that is solid. Yet, everytime we have these conversations it ends up with Power anything getting hit from Condi's transgressions and sins. 

PvP in this game is so kitten tiring.

You don't speak for ele mains, there were plenty who played tempest hybrid, or condi builds, and people who even quit when all non-problomatic condi scepter builds got nerfed into the ground becuase of signet+cata.

 

If you are to point blame anywhere, point it at cata (ironically a power spec), it was stability spam/passive mitigation from signets that was the issue, meaning catas could not be quickly pressured out of fire attunement. Nobody said tempest was OP at the same time (I was playing it) becuase it WASNT. The key reason why, tempest did not have free stability, meaning you are forced out of fire stance fast, which reduces fire damage dramatically (I played that spec for months, thats how it works with no free stability). The only thing kitten about the damage itself is how it was applied, mostly from auto attacks which was bs. The condi damage should have been spread over other dodgable abilitys, revent is a good example of how that looks. Further more, ele condi damage is very likely the easiest to clense in the game, only temepst can somewhat mask it with earth overloads.. but its highly unreliable (dodge the overload?) and your dmg tanks while doing it.

 

This is one of the benefits of playing every ele spec/weapon.. you get to talk some actual sense.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Dreams.3128]

16 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You don't speak for ele mains, there were plenty who played tempest hybrid, or condi builds, and people who even quit when all non-problomatic condi scepter builds got nerfed into the ground becuase of signet+cata.

 

If you are to point blame anywhere, point it at cata (ironically a power spec), it was stability spam/passive mitigation from signets that was the issue, meaning catas could not be quickly pressured out of fire attunement. Nobody said tempest was OP at the same time (I was playing it) becuase it WASNT. The key reason why, tempest did not have free stability, meaning you are forced out of fire stance fast, which reduces fire damage dramatically (I played that spec for months, thats how it works with no free stability). The only thing kitten about the damage itself is how it was applied, mostly from auto attacks which was bs. The condi damage should have been spread over other dodgable abilitys, revent is a good example of how that looks. Further more, ele condi damage is very likely the easiest to clense in the game, only temepst can somewhat mask it with earth overloads.. but its highly unreliable (dodge the overload?) and your dmg tanks while doing it.

 

This is one of the benefits of playing every ele spec/weapon.. you get to talk some actual sense.

Sir, I don't know what your intention is with this point, but I've literally played Ele since I started this game back in 2015. I already know all of this, so what was the point of tagging me and giving me a whole paragraph of what does and didn't work, why something works and about condi damage when I expressly showed the fact that I am BORED of condi Ele and actually want some solid power builds that don't surround an overbloated spec that does nothing for Ele as a whole when it comes to playstyle changes?

Seriously, what point were you trying to make?

[Flowki.7194]

24 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Sir, I don't know what your intention is with this point, but I've literally played Ele since I started this game back in 2015. I already know all of this, so what was the point of tagging me and giving me a whole paragraph of what does and didn't work, why something works and about condi damage when I expressly showed the fact that I am BORED of condi Ele and actually want some solid power builds that don't surround an overbloated spec that does nothing for Ele as a whole when it comes to playstyle changes?

Seriously, what point were you trying to make?

Why would I not tag you, when you litterally tagged me?

 

You don't just dismiss an entire playstyle for others, or speak for all eles, based on YOUR boredom and personal preference. You are also talking rubbish, at the time of the clearly OP condi cata, power cata was still overperforming in the hands of vets, and hammer cata was also probably better then than it is now, as there were far less condi builds being used (ironically, condi cata aside).

 

Nobody forced you to play condi ele back then. Also, ele is bloated, compared to what? There are a number of specs that ''do most things'' ele can do, and multiple things better. Melee+range damage, cleave or aoe damage, MORE hard cc, supprior condi bombs, higher burst, the ability to attack back while IMMUNE, instant stability, protection/resistance/res, instant 5+ condi clense. The only hit and miss mechanic ele had over others is projectile reflects. Ele has access to more blinds, but many specs have access to confusion/slow/daze.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Dreams.3128]

21 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why would I not tag you, when you litterally tagged me?

 

You don't just dismiss an entire playstyle for others, or speak for all eles, based on YOUR boredom and personal preference. You are also talking rubbish, at the time of the clearly OP condi cata, power cata was still overperforming in the hands of vets, and hammer cata was also probably better then than it is now, as there were far less condi builds being used (ironically, condi cata aside).

 

Nobody forced you to play condi ele back then. Also, ele is bloated, compared to what? There are a number of specs that ''do most things'' ele can do, and multiple things better. Melee+range damage, cleave or aoe damage, MORE hard cc, supprior condi bombs, higher burst, the ability to attack back while IMMUNE, instant stability, protection/resistance/res, instant 5+ condi clense. The only hit and miss mechanic ele had over others is projectile reflects. Ele has access to more blinds, but many specs have access to confusion/slow/daze.

 

 

Read. I didn't say ALL of Ele is bloated, I said Condi Ele is bloated. Which it usually is. So. . 

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Read. I didn't say ALL of Ele is bloated, I said Condi Ele is bloated. Which it usually is. So. . 

Every viable condi spec is bloated, it litterally has to be, or it would fold in seconds under power burst. You want less condi and more power, yet it is ironically power that forces viable condi specs to be ''bloated''.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Basically, due to the nerfs, core pushes the damage back up to the level where you can much easier punish people for mistakes

Cata and weaver have more damage than core and cata has far better defense. Even going fire, air, arcane as zerker your damage isnt good outside of the window where you stack 25 might in fire attunement. The only viable core build right now is condi signet, which is basically just a worse version of the cata build.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Cata and weaver have more damage than core and cata has far better defense. Even going fire, air, arcane as zerker your damage isnt good outside of the window where you stack 25 might in fire attunement. The only viable core build right now is condi signet, which is basically just a worse version of the cata build.

Weaver is cumbersome af, and not reactive enough outside of small encounters. Its overall damage is likely higher over a longer period, but core ele pumps out faster and higher spike damage. Scepter cata does not do as much burst damage as core, at least not traditional build vs what im using. Hammer cata does more becuase of stacked orbs and high co abilitys. But thats on paper, its a hard to play, short range spec with limited mobility.

 

On core I just camp air autos next to group fights waiting for the right moment to go in with updraft> Pheonix/ring/Dragon> It does around 15k dmg if all hits/crits, Arcane shield if they stunbreak wait, for dodge >firegrab+expolsion FA swap, which does another 15k ish damage if hit/crits. If they are not dead then I ride/flash out and use water/earth ranged. Its less sustain like you said, but definately faster and higher spike damage than weaver/scepter cata.. unless ive seriously missed something. I only use maura now, cba at all with <13k hp.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Dreams.3128]

6 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Every viable condi spec is bloated, it litterally has to be, or it would fold in seconds under power burst. You want less condi and more power, yet it is ironically power that forces viable condi specs to be ''bloated''.

Now I'm gonna assume you meant I want more power and less condi for ele, because that is a huge jump if you assume I want ALL things power. I like both playstyles. One simply feels better than the other depending on the class.

As of now I feel that Power should very much be a more prominent thing on ele because of the most part outside of Cata, power was never really out of control. Even FA weaver at its absolute peak was not oppressive by any means, given the fact during this time people were also facing freshly launched Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Mirage, etc. Also, condi actually becomes more problematic than power in Ele's case because there are FAR less stats you have to worry about as a condi Ele, then a Power Ele by a long stretch. You are essentially giving up SOMETHING when you play a power build  Condi you give up nothing. You get sustain, offensive pressure, defensive pressure. 

So tell me how that is fair in any capacity where condi is not weak by any means, I'll wait.