Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

[Brynioch.1873]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference.

I got that response last time, and shot int down over the course of the next 5 or 6 pages.. will I do that again? Nope.

The end consensus (or grudging admittance) on this topic was that No one believe this.. not even raiders or the people that say it... and especially not the Anet Devs.

In the end, anyone that does not want to bother with Raids, I encourage them to move on from that content, and head over to WvW.

Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. GW2 always contained challenges. And now it's bad hmm?

Lets see... You listed.. 2 dead dungeons, not only dead, but outright abandoned directly by Anet for being failures, and a 1 time event that was never mimicked...and that is your stand by to say this is a good idea?

Yup.. not having this discussion again.

But no matter,. Anet Devs have said that Raids won't be changing, so, going though the words and motions with you at this point won't do any good.

Anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, but not wanting to do Raids, WvW, (World Vs World), which can be brought up by hitting B in game, is a great alternative, just pick the Glorious Armor reward track, and head out into the big Open World and try to stay alive long enough to earn some pips.

Because it contradics your thesis GW2 should be all faceroll?

It never was and never will be.

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'.

No, it doesn't.

Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013.

All content that was considerably more accessible than raids are. If raids were on the level of that content then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everything is a matter of degrees. Raids are just a bridge too far.

A time limited event that is further blocked by limited tickets that needs to be farmed when you run out of them and completely dependend on personal skill is more accessible than group content that has zero entry limits and allows you to carry some players through it? Yeah sure...

[Feanor.2358]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Meaning the "GW2 experience" is facerolling hordes of monsters that pose no real danger whatsoever. If I wanted that, I'd play Diablo 3.

Or played GW2, if you wanted Raids and Challenge, you should have played Wildstar, WoW, or a slew of other games.

Never ceased to amaze me that people would come to this faceroll game and then cry that it was too easy and needs to be like said harder game.. but didn't want to go play said harder game.

But I think that point was made few dozen times over on this topic as well.

In the end, Raids are not going to change, no matter what we say here.

Anyone looking for alternate path to Legendary Armor, please check out WvW or sPvP.

I don't think there can be such thing as a faceroll MMO, not a successful one at least. In GW2 there was always supposed to be a challenging endgame - first the explorable dungeons, then the highest scale fractals, and ultimately the raids. The appearance of raids is largely because the former endgames failed to provide sufficient challenge. But that doesn't mean the design philosophy was "be faceroll" all along.

But I fully agree with your conclusion. Check out the alternatives. You often find you like something you'd never thought you would, when you try it. It happened with me - for both raids and WvW.

[maddoctor.2738]

@STIHL.2489 said:The real question is not if raids need an easy mode, as the Devs have said they won't change raids, but why are we paying for content that we can't play?

The game, like any game, has inaccessible parts by members of the playerbase, it had been like that since release.The same question can be made for any part of the game somebody doesn't like. That's not a very good question to make.The better question is, does everything that you care about in the game, for its price, satisfy you?

[Feanor.2358]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:The real question is not if raids need an easy mode, as the Devs have said they won't change raids, but why are we paying for content that we can't play?

The game, like any game, has inaccessible parts by members of the playerbase, it had been like that since release.The same question can be made for any part of the game somebody doesn't like. That's not a very good question to make.The better question is, does everything that you care about in the game, for its price, satisfy you?

The answer seems obvious, doesn't it? Not only everyone here plays the game, they're passionate enough about it to also come visit the forums and participate in discussions about it. So it is pretty clear they are getting plenty for their money.

[Ohoni.6057]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics.

I don't mind challenging mechanics, so long as the chance of failure is relatively low. With most of their earlier content, failure was only likely if large portions of the people who showed up had no idea what was going on, and there was nothing that map could do about it if that was the case. Even basic coordination and intention was plenty to get through the content. The only real "difficulty check" was in how you arranged to get on a coordinated map.

The Gauntlet enemies could be challenging, but again, they had no story and minimal rewards attached, they were basically just there to show off that you could do it. If hard raids existed in the same state then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

@Miellyn.6847 said:A time limited event that is further blocked by limited tickets that needs to be farmed when you run out of them and completely dependend on personal skill is more accessible than group content that has zero entry limits and allows you to carry some players through it? Yeah sure...

Oh, come on, I had hundreds of those tickets left over for years afterward, I think I deleted them eventually, that was never an issue. And again, I value gameplay, I'd rather content that is personally difficult than content that I could fail because someone else messed up, or, by the same token, content that I would be capable of messing up for someone else who's doing his best. I put zero value in the ability for a player to be carried.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics.

I don't mind challenging mechanics, so long as the chance of failure is relatively low.

So what exactly is the challenge? Not to fall asleep?

[nia.4725]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:Do you really feel entitled to have a full easy mode game?

Yes!

We come to this game for an all easymode game! That's why we aren't playing a hard mode game. If we wanted hard mode, we'd be playing something else! Having a game that is 99% one thing and then 1% another is the worst, because it means that people who enjoy most of the game have some portion forever closed off to them. This is why we need an easy mode, so that 100% of the game is open to those who enjoy most of it.

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

But you have the skills, time, twitch skill, and resources to do said content, as such, it is purely a matter of you not wanting to do it, not a matter of lacking the capacity on any level to do it,. Many casuals do not have the time, twitch skill, or resources to do raids.

As such, you have 100% of the game open to you.. others do not.

If you firmly believe that 100% of the players can do raids, then they are not any more special then say getting a PoI, but, we all know that Raids are designed to be hard content, and this by definition have a limited number of players that can do them.

The real question is not if raids need an easy mode, as the Devs have said they won't change raids, but why are we paying for content that we can't play?

You can play anything, but may have chosen not to, others can't.

In any case, anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, I encourage you to try WvW, it is a very open way to progress, and like many of the best parts of GW2, you can make progress at your own pace, and as long as you contribute, you will gain.

Raids are done and dead content, they will not change, but, there are other paths, and I hope anyone reading this topic feeling discouraged about Raids, checks out WvW.

You either are deminishing yourself and your skills, or simply using this as a fake argument. I can't get to understand why'd you argue this, really. Like.

When I started raiding I did not have ANY skill. Raiders aren't born being raiders and having skills, you know. In my case, I was a PvE casual. I had only done what any casual does: map metas, OW events, things like that. I played PvP too, but never got past silver. And GW2 was my very first MMO, so you can imagine how my skill was, but if you still need me to tell you I'll do it: it was non-existent. I'm very good at understanding things, but my practical skill is limited and I need a good amount of time to develop that.

I wasn't any different from any current OW casual player, because I was an OW casual player.

Resources? Nope. I had only 1 ascended set, my ele berserker's set. All my other toons were on exotics. And it's funny because I only lasted like 3 weeks playing ele. I hated it so much that I decided to go druid, and raided with druid, in FULL EXOTICS I got from Orr. How is that having resources. I only had resources when I got lucky and a black lion chest gave me a permanent bank contract that I sold for a lot of gold, and I spent all of it in crafting a full ascended set for my druid.

So resources? Nay. Skills? Hahahahaha #no. Like really. I was bad. Plain bad. Real bad.

I have resources now that I've been raiding for more than a year. I have skills now, that I've been raiding for more than a year. Now, not then.

Ohoni was saying that he doesn't have the 100% of the game open to him, because raids is not a content he enjoys, and there's not a version of it that he can enjoy, so he has not the 100% of the game available to him. That isn't any different from me saying the same about open world. But it's an incorrect statement. We ALL have the 100% of the game, and lock ourselves out of content because of internal decisions and beliefs about ourselves. EVERYONE has the capacity to raid, EVERYONE has the capacity to learn -even if you can't raid properly at the start (few can), you are able to learn. If you're not interested in learning, that's up to you. But you always have the capacity.

100% of players can raid, yes, if they are willing to make some amount of effort and learn a little. And yes raids are harder content, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Raids require learning, but everyone can learn. Nobody here is an idiot incapable of learning. So, you cannot say that you or anyone can't raid or that the 100% of the game isn't available to you.

So, continuing to read your post: you are paying to have access to the game, and claiming that you cannot play a part of the game (raids) is completely false. You CAN raid, unless you define "being able to raid" as entering the boss and being able to defeat it just by "doing whatever". But why would you do that? Some parts of every game are always harder than others so sometimes you need to learn and sharpen your skills a little. DOes that mean you can't play that content? Hell no.

Every time you say that some people can't raid, I feel you're just assuming they're idiots.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics.

I don't mind challenging mechanics, so long as the chance of failure is relatively low.

So what exactly is the challenge? Not to fall asleep?

To do the mechanics to the best of your ability. If there's a circle to dodge and you let it hit you, then that's a failure on your part whether the overall encounter itself clears or not.

Bad encounters are ones where there aren't many mechanics to deal with, or you have no meaningful tools to deal with them, or they don't give meaty feedback if you fail them. So long as you have interesting things you can do, and you can tell whether you did them right or not, the outcome is irrelevant to the challenge factor.

Ohoni was saying that he doesn't have the 100% of the game open to him, because raids is not a content he enjoys, and there's not a version of it that he can enjoy, so he has not the 100% of the game available to him. That isn't any different from me saying the same about open world.

I don't know. I struggle to consider those the same thing, because to bring me into full-on raider mode would involve a lot of actual stress, whereas the worst you'd face from open world content would be a little boredom. If that's a deal-breaker for you, then fine, but I don't think they can be placed on the same scale in the broader sense.

Not to mention that the time invested in open world activities would be considerably less to earn any given reward than the time needed to even participate in a raid encounter. I just see a comment like this like when Justin Beiber was complaining that "being a celebrity was hard too." It's not "we both have our crosses to bear, so let's agree to leave everything as it is."

No.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics.

I don't mind challenging mechanics, so long as the chance of failure is relatively low.

So what exactly is the challenge? Not to fall asleep?

To do the mechanics to the best of your ability. If there's a circle to dodge and you let it hit you, then that's a failure on your part whether the overall encounter itself clears or not.

Bad encounters are ones where there aren't many encounters to deal with, or you have no meaningful tools to deal with them, or they don't give meaty feedback if you fail them. So long as you have interesting things you

can

do, and you can tell whether you did them right or not, the outcome is irrelevant to the challenge factor.

I beg to differ. If there's no consequence, there can't be a "meaty feedback". Sure, you can do some visuals, camera shakes and whatnot, but these are meaningless without actual gameplay consequence, without the possibility of failing the encounter. The reason? Without said possibility it is not a failure to ignore a mechanic. It is correct gameplay. It is objectively better to ignore it, as it poses no real danger and doing it would simply result in wasting time. No failure, no challenge, no meaning.

@Ohoni.6057 said:

Ohoni was saying that he doesn't have the 100% of the game open to him, because raids is not a content he enjoys, and there's not a version of it that he can enjoy, so he has not the 100% of the game available to him. That isn't any different from me saying the same about open world.

I don't know. I struggle to consider those the same thing, because to bring me into full-on raider mode would involve a lot of actual stress, whereas the worst you'd face from open world content would be a little boredom. If that's a deal-breaker for you, then fine, but I don't think they can be placed on the same scale in the broader sense.

Actually they can. Stress or boredom, it doesn't matter. In both cases you end up not wanting to play the game any more. Which is the actual deal breaker. @nia correctly said the capacity is the same for everyone. It is only our choices that lock us out of particular content. I've told you the same before.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:A time limited event that is further blocked by limited tickets that needs to be farmed when you run out of them and completely dependend on personal skill is more accessible than group content that has zero entry limits and allows you to carry some players through it? Yeah sure...

Oh, come on, I had hundreds of those tickets left over for years afterward, I think I deleted them eventually, that was never an issue. And again, I value gameplay, I'd rather content that is personally difficult than content that

I

could fail because

someone else

messed up, or, by the same token, content that I would be capable of messing up for someone else who's doing his best. I put zero value in the ability for a player to be carried.

And again: You are not the most important person in the game. We got it already. You only care about yourself. If content is fine for you others should feel the same.

Others had a lot of problems getting enough tickets to play it. The gauntlet was less accessible than raids are especially the later bosses. Not the same experience for all but in general that is the cold harsh truth.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics.

I don't mind challenging mechanics, so long as the chance of failure is relatively low.

So what exactly is the challenge? Not to fall asleep?

To do the mechanics to the best of your ability. If there's a circle to dodge and you let it hit you, then that's a failure on your part whether the overall encounter itself clears or not.

Bad encounters are ones where there aren't many encounters to deal with, or you have no meaningful tools to deal with them, or they don't give meaty feedback if you fail them. So long as you have interesting things you

can

do, and you can tell whether you did them right or not, the outcome is irrelevant to the challenge factor.

So all of your encounters you design are bad as they don't give you meaningful feedback if you fail mechanics?

Challenges in video games are not challenges if you can choose to ignore everything and just hit a sand bag.

[Ohoni.6057]

@"Feanor.2358" said:I beg to differ. If there's no consequence, there can't be a "meaty feedback".

Sure there can be. There only needs to be enough of an indication that a hit landed, maybe you get knocked back, maybe you take enough of a chunk of damage to notice, but still easy to recover from. So long as it's enough that you know the hit landed, it's plenty.

Sure, you can do some visuals, camera shakes and whatnot, but these are meaningless without actual gameplay consequence, without the possibility of failing the encounter. The reason? Without said possibility it is not a failure to ignore a mechanic. It is correct gameplay. It is objectively better to ignore it, as it poses no real danger and doing it would simply result in wasting time. No failure, no challenge, no meaning.

I can't agree on that. If there's an attack you could avoid, but you make no attempt to do so, then that to me is more failure then the encounter shutting down, that is something you could have done, but didn't.

Actually they can. Stress or boredom, it doesn't matter.

I can't agree with that. The words make no sense to me when placed in that order.

Which is the actual deal breaker. @nia correctly said the capacity is the same for everyone.

That's not true either. Different people have different capacities. The challenge in GW2 is not so high that most players can meet and exceed it, if they try, but there are people who lack the capacity to meet that standard, there are theoretical standards that most players could never reach, and for those that can meet the standards through hard work and dedication, plenty of other people could achieve the same results without even trying. Everyone is different. Rather than trying to squeeze everyone into the same box, accept players for their differences, and encourage them to play in the way that they enjoy playing.

@Miellyn.6847 said:And again: You are not the most important person in the game. We got it already. You only care about yourself. If content is fine for you others should feel the same.

That has nothing to do with what I said, it's just a random ad hominem.

Others had a lot of problems getting enough tickets to play it. The gauntlet was less accessible than raids are especially the later bosses. Not the same experience for all but in general that is the cold harsh truth.

Nonsense.

So all of your encounters you design are bad as they don't give you meaningful feedback if you fail mechanics?

No?

Challenges in video games are not challenges if you can choose to ignore everything and just hit a sand bag.

Of course they are. The challenge is up to the player, the developer just gives them the tools to challenge themselves with.

[nia.4725]

@Ohoni.6057 said:That's not true either. Different people have different capacities. The challenge in GW2 is not so high that most players can meet and exceed it, if they try, but there are people who lack the capacity to meet that standard, there are theoretical standards that most players could never reach, and for those that can meet the standards through hard work and dedication, plenty of other people could achieve the same results without even trying. Everyone is different. Rather than trying to squeeze everyone into the same box, accept players for their differences, and encourage them to play in the way that they enjoy playing.

Another one assuming some people are idiots.

Let's see, Ohoni. It's so obvious I feel embarrassed to be here telling you this.

Different people have different capacities. That's obvious.

But that means that the amount of effort they will need to do in order to do raids will vary from one person to another. That DOES NOT mean that some people will be able to raid and some won't.

No one lacks the capacity to meet the standard unless some other non-related issue prevents them from doing so (like a disability, color blindness, etc). Everyone else is able to learn and raid, even though the amount of time needed to learn will be different for every person.

We're not talking here about anything else than capacity. And, as for capacity, everyone has it.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Sure, you can do some visuals, camera shakes and whatnot, but these are meaningless without actual gameplay consequence, without the possibility of

failing

the encounter. The reason? Without said possibility it is not a failure to ignore a mechanic. It is correct gameplay. It is objectively better to ignore it, as it poses no real danger and doing it would simply result in wasting time. No failure, no challenge, no meaning.

I can't agree on that. If there's an attack you could avoid, but you make no attempt to do so, then that to me is more failure then the encounter shutting down, that is something you

could

have done, but

didn't.

The point is, I gain nothing from doing it. In fact, I'm losing efficiency. The single biggest improvement to my play was when I stopped caring about dodging inconsequential attacks. So maybe I get hit for something irrelevant, so what? In exchange, I'll kill the enemy before they do an attack that might actually hurt. Is it a failure? No, it is common sense and efficiency.

[Ohoni.6057]

@"nia.4725" said:But that means that the amount of effort they will need to do in order to do raids will vary from one person to another. That DOES NOT mean that some people will be able to raid and some won't.

Sure it does. Even if you're unwilling to accept that people wexist who can't possibly, under any circumstances become capable of pulling their own weight in a raid, at the very least there are those who would have to work much harder than anyone could reasonably expect of them to accomplish what you take for granted. It's a disengenuous argument to try and claim "anyone can do it."

@"Feanor.2358" said:The point is, I gain nothing from doing it. In fact, I'm losing efficiency.

It's a game. The point is to enjoy what you're doing. If you're deliberately playing in a way that is boring to you, when you have the option to engage with the content, then that's far more foolish than playing "inefficiently." It's only the game's fault if they don't give you the opportunity to engage with the content. If you don't do that, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:The point is, I gain nothing from doing it. In fact, I'm losing efficiency.

It's a game. The point is to enjoy what you're doing. If you're deliberately playing in a way that is boring to you, when you have the option to engage with the content, then that's far more foolish than playing "inefficiently." It's only the game's fault if they don't give you the

opportunity

to engage with the content. If you don't do that, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Doesn't matter. You can't rely on arbitrarily defined, self-imposed "challenges" for long. I mean, sure, they are a nice distraction, or a change of pace. But they don't work in the long run, because ultimately they have no meaning beyond what you personally assign them, and that wears off. Because, you know, you've done them already. So that's why the game needs to offer actual challenge by itself. Because this isn't a singleplayer story-driven game, it's a MMO.

Also, no matter how many time you repeat that, it's still going to be wrong. The game gives equal opportunity to everyone. You are perfectly capable of setting up your own squad, advertising it on LFG and "engaging" the content. You choose not to. And no, you can't blame the game for that. You can only blame yourself.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:And again: You are not the most important person in the game. We got it already. You only care about yourself. If content is fine for you others should feel the same.

That has nothing to do with what I said, it's just a random ad hominem.

Others had a lot of problems getting enough tickets to play it. The gauntlet was less accessible than raids are especially the later bosses. Not the same experience for all but in general that is the cold harsh truth.

Nonsense.

Yes you said exactly that. You had no problems with tickets so everything is fine and it was more accessible than content that you can enter 24/7 without any restrictions.Your comment about open world said the same. You can't see problems were you don't have any.

So all of your encounters you design are bad as they don't give you meaningful feedback if you fail mechanics?

No?

Meaningful feedback changes the way you behave or play. A camera shake and a pat on the head are not meaty or meaningful feedback.

Challenges in video games are not challenges if you can choose to ignore everything and just hit a sand bag.

Of course they are. The challenge is up to the player, the developer just gives them the

tools

to challenge themselves with.

Yeah and you actively to ask for a machine gun when you got a sword. Nobody forces you to play the challenge. You want to change the tools you already got.

[nia.4725]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

[Tyson.5160]

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

[nia.4725]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

I see : / Then I hope you have the griffon or a kind friend, getting to the last step of that ring is impossible without it.

[Feanor.2358]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

So raid like everyone else. The ring isn't even hard, all it takes is a single clear of W5.

[nia.4725]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

So raid like everyone else. The ring isn't even hard, all it takes is a single clear of W5.

And spending minutes sitting in some parts of PoF maps, and buying some mats that cost around 50 gold, and trying to reach that stupid NPC sorrounded by invisible walls.

Not much, but still more than a single clear of W5. And pugging Dhuum isn't that easy xDD

[Tyson.5160]

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

I see : / Then I hope you have the griffon or a kind friend, getting to the last step of that ring is impossible without it.

Yeah I have the Griffin. No issues there.

[Tyson.5160]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

So raid like everyone else. The ring isn't even hard, all it takes is a single clear of W5.

I got something in the works that will takes care of that issue.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Miellyn.6847 said:The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'.You might want to look into other LFG categories sometimes. Especially the ones for HoT metas during peak hours and for PoF bounties on dailies days. Especially remembering that all of those lfgs would be for 50-man squads.

@Miellyn.6847 said:Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. GW2 always contained challenges. And now it's bad hmm?Aetherpath ended up being considered a failure (and one of the main causes of dungein abandonment later on). Queens gauntlet got rereleased exactly once and then abandoned. And even when it was up, was far less popular than the farm events on the arena below it. Popularity of SAB world 2 compared to (much easier) world 1 was likely the primary reason of why we'll never get world 3 and 4. And Arah wasn't all that more difficult than some of the previous dungeons - the main reason why it was (and still is) disliked compared to those is because of how long it takes for an average group.

@Feanor.2358 said:The point is, I gain nothing from doing it. In fact, I'm losing efficiency.It's not a business. It's entertainment.

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,oTo have a legendary set you'd need two rings. And we don't really know how many of those will be released, and in what types of content.

At this moment i'm not bringing that up only because i still hope there will be enough options you will be able to choose and get two through content types you might like. Although, knowing anet, i feel i really should start complaining about it as well.

[Feanor.2358]

Farms will always be popular, that has nothing to do with the need for the game to provide challenge.