Thief Stealth is Truly OP As You Can Get [Merged]

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 hours ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

I don't think most people will ever actually sit and learn how to fight Thief, tbh. Any class built on subversion and disguising intent will inherently be one of the most frustrating to face, to the point where people will just avoid dealing with them.

Correct. And that is 90% of why all the rework suggestions for thieves are just vindictive retellings of the same issues people have had for over a decade. They know just enough about it to know they hate fighting it, but playing one for any stretch of time in any competitive sphere would cut those feelings in half, if not more.

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Also helps that S/D is honestly one of the most fashionable and aesthetic sets to work with, tbh. It just hits right when you have that good set and design to work with.

I like symmetrical weapons, but alas, none of them are mobile.

[Auragen.4162]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:12 PM, Justine.6351 said:

It's because anet nerfed damage across the board so much that they can make many mistakes and still stealth their way out of it. There are only so many ranged skills that don't require a target that can be laid across a black powder.

I noticed this the first day they brought out their 'nerf all power damage' patch a few years ago. But still, it's thief's fault I guess /s.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Auragen.4162

[Jackthetripper.9035]

Buff it then nerf it

[Auragen.4162]

There is more counterplay than there ever has been to thief. Nearly every class has a reveal. Everyone has target painter. Multiple classes can be just as fast as thief (excluding Deadeye Rifle 4 spam, that is broken). Get good and L2P.

I play thief because ever since mounts, with the way I play the game every fight turns into getting cornered by 3-5 apes rotating OOC + dismount on you until you die. No thanks. Until Anet does something about that braindead kitten, I will stick with thief.

For actual group fights, any of the other specs perform better. Thief damage unless completely glass is garbage. Thief boon rip is single target. Thief has basically no boons. Are we allowed to have stealth please lol??? Hit me up for 1v1 any time OP, I have a feeling it will be funny

PS: the problem isn't even stealth. Whenever Sword is strong, the complainers come right out and cry about it, then it gets nerfed quickly and we're all back to D/P or whatever. People just don't want to learn how to play against thief, they just want a free win against a class they didn't bother truly understanding past a 1 hour session. It's just easier for scrubs to stick to rotational boon spam builds and get mad when they don't understand/can't play the one build without rotational boon spam.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Auragen.4162

[XenesisII.1540]

People always say play the class before calling it broken.

I played deadeye for a couple months, that kitten was nuts and I wasn't even using the stealth spam version, it was the poison one, I used black powder more for it's blind than stealth lol, it saved me so much in melee fights and secure stomps. I'm far from a thief expert, I can only imagine what the veterans get away with on those builds. 🤷‍♂️

[Burnfall.9573]

16 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

People always say play the class before calling it broken.

I played deadeye for a couple months, that kitten was nuts and I wasn't even using the stealth spam version, it was the poison one, I used black powder more for it's blind than stealth lol, it saved me so much in melee fights and secure stomps. I'm far from a thief expert, I can only imagine what the veterans get away with on those builds. 🤷‍♂️

Thank You!

Edited November 22, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Zacchary.6183]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I used black powder more for it's blind than stealth lol, it saved me so much in melee fights and secure stomps.

You're better than most thieves. Thief has plenty of tools, but a lot of them take a degree of competency to make work.

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, Auragen.4162 said:

I noticed this the first day they brought out their 'nerf all power damage' patch a few years ago. But still, it's thief's fault I guess /s.

I used to roam with a hammer Rev. It was a thief eating machine because of all its untargeted aoe attacks 😉

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:18 AM, Zevelon.6512 said:

Ye i bet you play thief by the amount of non existing mechanics you talk about.There is a little debuff called Reviled it lasts 5sec (not a guess a fact) and it affects your thief every time you exit stealth (when in combat) so perma stealth like you say exist only in your dreams, also every attack you do when in stealth and i mean EVERY attack that hits a target will get you out of stealth and Revile you for 5 sec. Just cuz you hate thief does not give you the right to pose as one just to push your agenda. 

Ah yes, Revealed, the widely available, spammable debuff every profession has access to. Not like there are only two skills that cause Revealed without having to target someone or have to guess where the Thief is/literally see the Thief and that's Detection Pulse and Sight beyond Sight. Every other skill either requires the Thief to be unstealthed, like Necro's only option, or precisely put an AoE on the Thief to reveal them, like the only option Rev has.
Every other way of applying Revealed is done through a skill that requires a target, except for one, Light's Judgement, which is a trap.

On 11/18/2023 at 10:18 AM, Zevelon.6512 said:

also every attack you do when in stealth and i mean EVERY attack that hits a target will get you out of stealth and Revile you for 5 sec. Just cuz you hate thief does not give you the right to pose as one just to push your agenda. 

3 seconds, not 5.

But please go on about how weak Stealth is for Thief and how strong Reveal is, that's why every build in the game runs it reveals, right?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

People always say play the class before calling it broken.

I played deadeye for a couple months, that kitten was nuts and I wasn't even using the stealth spam version, it was the poison one, I used black powder more for it's blind than stealth lol, it saved me so much in melee fights and secure stomps. I'm far from a thief expert, I can only imagine what the veterans get away with on those builds. 🤷‍♂️

Consider most, if not all of the people in this thread with a problem want to nerf every build outside of this. What do you think will happen if they succeed? 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Auragen.4162]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

People always say play the class before calling it broken.

I played deadeye

This is a separate problem completely. Stealth on evade + 1200/1500 range attacks is a broken combination that only Deadeye is capable of. Deadeye hate is fully deserved. For some reason they even have the most mobility out of all thief builds with Rifle 4 spam.

[XenesisII.1540]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Consider most, if not all of the people in this thread with a problem want to nerf every build but this one. What do you think will happen if they succeed? 

The build I played was already nerfed hard, it wasn't even the best thief build. I've seen ones way more toxic.

I sit here and watch them nerf my strip builds and necro/mesmer every patch, I really don't care who else gets burned anymore.

6 minutes ago, Auragen.4162 said:

This is a separate problem completely. Stealth on evade + 1200/1500 range attacks is a broken combination that only Deadeye is capable of. Deadeye hate is fully deserved. For some reason they even have the most mobility out of all thief builds with Rifle 4 spam.

I didn't even play the stealth rifle spam version, well ok I did for like a day, but I moved on to a sb/dp interrupt build instead. Saw someone playing this the other night, took me like 3 tries to moa them shooting at someone else to get them to stop the stealth spam.

Gw2 stealth system is still one of the worse in all of mmo's.

Edited November 22, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Varis.5467]

27 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Ah yes, Revealed, the widely available, spammable debuff every profession has access to. Not like there are only two skills that cause Revealed without having to target someone or have to guess where the Thief is/literally see the Thief and that's Detection Pulse and Sight beyond Sight. Every other skill either requires the Thief to be unstealthed, like Necro's only option, or precisely put an AoE on the Thief to reveal them, like the only option Rev has.
Every other way of applying Revealed is done through a skill that requires a target, except for one, Light's Judgement, which is a trap.

3 seconds, not 5.

But please go on about how weak Stealth is for Thief and how strong Reveal is, that's why every build in the game runs it reveals, right?

*gasp in mesmer*

YOU GUYS HAVE REVEAL SKILLS? 

 

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The build I played was already nerfed hard, it wasn't even the best thief build. I've seen ones way more toxic.

I sit here and watch them nerf my strip builds and necro/mesmer every patch, I really don't care who else gets burned anymore.

I didn't even play the stealth rifle spam version, well ok I did for like a day, but I moved on to a sb/dp interrupt build instead. Saw someone playing this the other night, took me like 3 tries to moa them shooting at someone else to get them to stop the stealth spam.

Gw2 stealth system is still one of the worse in all of mmo's.

It's one of the more interruptible and damage taking Stealth systems. I haven't played a lot of other mmos recently, but the alternatives I remember really are just camping in long duration stealth waiting for one shot openers. 

It's also one of the more engaging Stealth systems if you're the one using it. There are already stealth placement indicators, but it could use trajectory indicators also unless Anet sets it to automatically recover peoples Stealthed target when that target comes out of stealth. Or Anet could lean more into skill animations and use of space and inch away from frequent stealth. It's not like it's super necessary for actual obfuscation or map travel, which I'd prefer, the way each mode is played right now and with the dropped targeting and reset potential on some builds it can makes fights too stop and go. 

If you mean s/p, d/p, maybe drop some stuff at their feet if moa isn't happening. 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by kash.9213

[XenesisII.1540]

Yeah just drop some stuff at their feet.

Only an idiot would stand in the same spot after they stealth.

[kash.9213]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah just drop some stuff at their feet.

Only an idiot would stand in the same spot after they stealth.

Drop something else instead of one of your fumbled moa attempts. I'd rather take other utility instead of Well of Silence but that's what I have to spend that slot on for that reason. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by kash.9213

[XenesisII.1540]

Well it's good to know what Kash dies to all the time. 🤔

Remember ya'll use aoes on Kash, he fumbles his dodge and teleport skills for 11111.

Edited November 23, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[kash.9213]

15 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Well it's good to know what Kash dies to all the time. 🤔

Remember ya'll use aoes on Kash, he fumbles his dodge and teleport skills for 11111.

You let a two melee kit thief open up on your friend then bounce and you fumbled two attempts from another angle that you could have connected something with. Don't be butt hurt about it. 

[XenesisII.1540]

36 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

You let a two melee kit thief open up on your friend then bounce and you fumbled two attempts from another angle that you could have connected something with.

lol talking out of your wahoo as usual.

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I didn't even play the stealth rifle spam version, well ok I did for like a day, but I moved on to a sb/dp interrupt build instead. Saw someone playing this the other night, took me like 3 tries to moa them shooting at someone else to get them to stop the stealth spam.

You fumble your glasses too? 

Rifle deadeye.

Dodge stealth.

Not my friend, was in perimeter around a cloud zerg setting.

Loaded moa to help the people they were harassing from stealth, while trying to pay attention to the fight in front.

I bet you were so eager to try and one up me again. 🤭

Please stop, you're making it look like I have more knowledge on thieves than you do. 🤒

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Don't be butt hurt about it. 

Says the guy always trying to take a shot at me whenever I speak about thieves or stealth. /yawn

Edited November 23, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Ferus.3165]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

It's one of the more interruptible and damage taking Stealth systems.

that's just bs. If a thief dies it was because of his own mistakes or he was outnumbered.

The only way to play against stealth spamming thieves is to play heavy sustain builds. For that reason i understand when people play cele because it pisses thief players of  'cause they cannot whittle you down as easily as when you play some glass stats.

There is no way to prevent a thief from using stealth. And if you somehow managed to pressure the thief he just uses daggerstorm/shadow step/shortbow 5 and resets the fight.

There is no real counterplay to stealth in this game aside from sustain. You always get the drop on people. You cannot react to it. There is no downside to using it. You don't have to be close to burst them from stealth. The enemy instantly loses their target when you stealth, no fade time or anything. And you can even do damage and instantly vanish after that for example by using heartseeker through black powder directly into your target or use steal to close the gap mid animation (and still be stealthed after the attack).

[Jobber.6348]

On 11/18/2023 at 9:50 PM, psizone.8437 said:

Better access to revealing skills would help alleviate most players problems with stealth.

I'm still of the opinion that Revealed should be changed into a self buff that lets you see a semi translucent Stealthed entity rather than being forced upon a Stealthed enemy to prevent Stealth. 

The way it currently is makes Revealed entirely pointless in the grand scheme of things because it's neither reactive or a counter to stealth, it's more a punishment for attempting to stealth. And actually, it's not even a punishment at all, because the player suffering the debuff simply waits it out. It's more like a "no no no, don't do funny business, but I can't do anything once the debuff wears off!" then the Thief or Stealth offender be like "lol okay, I'll wait. I'll harass you in... 3....2....1. Let's hope you survive the next 25s while your Reveal skill is on cooldown" 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I hate stealth as much as the enxt person, but what I hate even more is blind with stealth. Blind applications are too oppressive on this game, a warrior needs to commit in defense for some resistance, a spellbreaker sacrifices the only tool of reveal/pull for resistance and if you play On my mark, you may as well not fight at all since bull's charge and 1 stunbreak are simply not enough. And will you run Shake it off to clear that 1 blind and maybe deal damage (which will get dodged) or will you slot stab (will be stolen) or endure pain (and be perma blinded). 

Classic stuff, playing warrior these days is like a death sentence. 

[Burial.1958]

21 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Correct. And that is 90% of why all the rework suggestions for thieves are just vindictive retellings of the same issues people have had for over a decade. They know just enough about it to know they hate fighting it, but playing one for any stretch of time in any competitive sphere would cut those feelings in half, if not more.

I like symmetrical weapons, but alas, none of them are mobile.

Biggest Fact is, when it is so easy, OP, Broken etc. the WvW would be full only with thieves. But it isn't. Because the Class need Skill and time to get good at it. I had now plenty of newbies on the class and all said to me that Thief is pretty hard to play and unforgiven. Only 10% did stick to class .....all the other swap back. 

It has some annoying things ofc but some peoples are coping really hard here. Maybe they should try the class first to understand it. 

Maybe they should try S/D once 🙃

The OP also didn't share any Video and refuse do to any 1vs1 etc. It is the same very lame story as always. 

 

+1 Azure 

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,
I'm locking this thread as it's run its course.
Regards.

[geist.4126]

It's not fun and it's not balanced and it's tiring.

"On the thief forums there is a lot of thief players going on about how stealth is not OP. It is.

I originally started GW2 1o years ago. Played thief from day 1. I did quit in 2015, but came back 2019.

I, however, did not like the stealth mechanic because it was too god Mode. When I played glass, I built for mobility and very little stealth. When I discovered how fun conditions were, I again played for mobility and not stealth. When they changed the shadow arts tree is when I went to Mesmer, and Engineer.

 

I have been playing thief again more than the other professions I have, I still refuse to abuse stealth, but I know very well how it works. Let me enlighten non thief players what the professional thief players do not want you to know because:

(1) It takes away the concept of them being skilled.

(2) They do not want to lose the OP'ness of the thief.

 

Sooooo. Here It Is

(1) Every 3.2 seconds I can hit you for 5k damage. I am only visible for a fraction of a second and almost nothing you can do about it. I say 3.2 seconds as a guestimate, But I can time my hit so I am visible for just a blip on your screen and you take a 5k hit The best thieves you fight do this.

(2) Thieves can hit you AND be in stealth. No Reveal for any amount of time. It is actually part of the game mechanics. No exploit needed. It is a 1 time action though. Any additional attack will reveal the thief, but the original one... The thief stays in stealth. Not a Cloak and Dagger hit. Something much quicker and deadlier to use. They just do not want you to know about it.

(3) Those stealth thieves trait so they actually can stay near 100% initiative.  I can hit you you for 5k+, and repeat every few seconds, stay at near full to full initiative, and stay in stealth so much, that I am only a blip on the screen. How many  people can take that much damage in such a short intervals?

Right now I am on EBG running glass. Less than 14k hitpoints. If I get attacked by a group, I can and will easily escape. If I get into a 1v1 fight, 100% guarantee I will not die. I should win easy enough, but on that rare occasion it looks bad, I can just escape. Even Rangers will stealth more than I will. That is how OP I find it, that I will only use it rarely.

So Do not let thief mains say how stealth is not OP. My point #2 alone negates that, but as a whole. Yeah. Thief with stealth is as OP as you can get.

 

I wrote this because of all the thieves in the thief forum going on about skill and how stealth is not OP, and that people who complain about it are just whining. No no no. If you hate stealth, you have a very good reason to hate stealth."

 

We need one of those threads per week until Anet decides to finally re-work this mechanic in a way where we don't need to put a trap down for 10 supplies and camp on that spot for 30 minutes for still getting no "counter-play" vs stealth.

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by geist.4126