Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Revenant

[kroof.5468]

List of Tooltip ideas, for visualization: Revenant Scepter Ideas

I like the support direction for the scepter, and find it to be a nice pairing with the shield. Though, the range disparities feel off. Increasing the range of the auto-attack and making it a projectile would give something new to Rev that was never there before. Also the "ribbon" visuals on the 2nd ability could be a nice motif throughout the weapon.  The 2nd ability is nice, but feels a bit bloated with the tooltip and difficult to understand at a glance. The 3rd ability is where it really bloats to a confusing extent. 

Suggestions Abridged:

• Serene Cut - Acerbic Cut - Motivating Whirl: Add an Ally Target function so that the scepter can empower Skills 2 & 3, no matter the playstyle one is focusing on: Enemy Targets or Ally Targets. 
• Blossoming Aura: Damage could be improved a bit, but could feel more flexible if you could target an ally as well. With an auto-attack having ally target functions and Blossoming Aura -- one could really dive into that support playstyle. 
• Otherworldly Bond: It just need to be simplified. Feels complex for the sake of complexity, and the outcome of the skill is lackluster when compared to the overwhelming tooltip. Also have the tether function with the entire Revenant kit -- not just scepter. With it being an upkeep, it wastes its potential of flexibility for it to be entirely focused on the scepter. If the tether could maintain between weapon swaps, and just disconnect if out of range or empty energy, it could be used flexibly. Though, one could run into the issue of weapon swapping with lower energy and be locked out of canceling this ability -- perhaps a "skill-cap" potential for the weapon. 
   

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

I'm just not sure where the feed back of "yes, allied targeting is nice, I enjoy it, and it totally doesn't interrupt the pace of combat in this game based around enemy tab targeting and aoe's" came from when specter was released. I was hopping they'd realize it just doesn't feel right in this game and go back to rework all of specter and scepter on thief, but instead they've seemed to double down on shoehorning the mechanic into other classes now. It's just so jarring of a mechanic. I was hopping for a weapon with some useful skills on them, instead its like they're trying to cram an elite spec into 3 weapon skills. It's overly complicated for the effort it takes to get some of the effects. Just give use a 900 ranged auto with some barrier sprinkled in at a 1:1:2 ratio or whatever and throw in either some vuln on each hit or cripple on the third hit. Skill 2 just make it do some burst barrier and apply a condi and boon. And skill 3 just make it like old and new sword combined.... a port in to the enemy target that applies allied boons, and a flip over skill to port out that applies condis and pulls the target... We don't need all these hoops to jump through, just a functioning support mainhand weapon. 

Or like other people have mentioned, make the defining feature of scepter that of tridents. It can change the condis and boons it applies with legend either doubling down on themes or filling gaps. Whatever, just anything other than auto attack this golem 3 to 6 times for benefits other classes get loaded into normal skills.

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

I'll probably get railed on the Revenant forums for saying this but I really like the idea of a reverse-gap close/mid range Weapon. Scepter felt really solid.

My 2 cents tho:

1. 360 AoE (while obviously awesome) seems a little much for a base weapon. -- Maybe tons it down to 300 or 240 (still quite a lot imo) or the target cap down to 3 and tone other "Expanded Melee Range" modifiers that need updates/might make sense like Reaper Shroud-autos, or War GS auto (if it ever gets a rework) up to match. Imo. A "super form" should beat out a regular weapon. But solid idea I honestly love it.

2. Tether should be 600target/broken at 900 or 900target/broken at 1200.

 

Cool idea great visuals. Looking forward to the Feb release!  Cheers guys & gals.

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, PseudoOAlias.4279 said:

I'll probably get railed on the Revenant forums for saying this but I really like the idea of a reverse-gap close/mid range Weapon. Scepter felt really solid.

My 2 cents tho:

1. 360 AoE (while obviously awesome) seems a little much for a base weapon. -- Maybe tons it down to 300 or 240 (still quite a lot imo) or the target cap down to 3 and tone other "Expanded Melee Range" modifiers that need updates/might make sense like Reaper Shroud-autos, or War GS auto (if it ever gets a rework) up to match. Imo. A "super form" should beat out a regular weapon. But solid idea I honestly love it.

2. Tether should be 600target/broken at 900 or 900target/broken at 1200.

 

Cool idea great visuals. Looking forward to the Feb release!  Cheers guys & gals.

you're right, you want to make it function worse while it isn't functional optimally yet. Even nerfing tether without addressing its problem

 => 1 stack/1sec passive generated and auto attacks can still speed it up.

Pulling enemies should also deal aoe damage where they get pulled, since it lacks damage compared to barrier for allies.

[arazoth.7290]

17 hours ago, kroof.5468 said:

List of Tooltip ideas, for visualization: Revenant Scepter Ideas

If it would be reworked little bit instead of tuned to make it more smooth/fluent, then yours is also interesting.

 

1 little downside on tether upkeep versus enemies though, will still remain acquiring stacks.

On allies in your suggestion it would increase in a faster rate compared to enemies(WvW/pvp). And this is because enemy players have block, dodge, invurnable which prevents gaining stacks in a reliable way. Even if you put 900 range on it, this would remain.

 1 stack/1sec passive generated and auto attacks can still speed it up. This part would still be required with tether upkeep in your suggestion.

 

Overall it's an interesting suggestion yes !

 

[SWLDguitar.5746]

I enjoyed scepter.  I didn’t find the ranges of spells 1 &2 to be an issue.  I think the costs should be lowered however, simply so the weapon can snap in with other builds.

What was bothersome was the tether.  Putting it on an ally who runs away is super annoying to deal with or the target swapping issue.  Putting the tether on an enemy didn’t do enough.  I feel like the Tether range on an ally should be increased to 1500 range, I only say this because it’s an upkeep skill and there’s more to lose versus other professions. Coupled with the melee range autoattack, I think 1500 is fair.   Range on enemy should be 1200, as others have stated, it’s easy in WvW/sPvP to just use mobility to get away from.  The tether should also reveal the target (low damage weapon to keep thieves in their place).

The tether 2nd abilities were difficult to get to work.  Perhaps they will be better with tuning.

In addition to that, this game could benefit from a UI overhaul.  More classes are gaining ally targeted abilities and they are not easy to put on someone.  Having said that, the 1500 range would help, but not completely fix this.

[Nokaon.4603]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:16 AM, PseudoOAlias.4279 said:

I'll probably get railed on the Revenant forums for saying this but I really like the idea of a reverse-gap close/mid range Weapon. Scepter felt really solid.

My 2 cents tho:

1. 360 AoE (while obviously awesome) seems a little much for a base weapon. -- Maybe tons it down to 300 or 240 (still quite a lot imo) or the target cap down to 3 and tone other "Expanded Melee Range" modifiers that need updates/might make sense like Reaper Shroud-autos, or War GS auto (if it ever gets a rework) up to match. Imo. A "super form" should beat out a regular weapon. But solid idea I honestly love it.

2. Tether should be 600target/broken at 900 or 900target/broken at 1200.

 

Cool idea great visuals. Looking forward to the Feb release!  Cheers guys & gals.

It's very clear that you haven't tested scepter for yourself, because in its current state its absolute horse, no player would let themselves get hit 6! times by an auto attack

the damage and range also needs to be buffed or they could make it ranged instead, because ranged autos are far easier to hit with than melee

 

[arazoth.7290]

>REMINDER FOR SCEPTER<

folowing adjustments for PvP, WvW and PvE

•Solution for Scepter biggest problem:

- Tether upkeep should auto generate 1 stack/second when applied to the target.(ally/enemy)  Auto attacks can still fasten up the progress.

- Tether consume should have aoe damage too when you pull the targeted enemy.

The enemy you try to pull gets damaged around himself with 300 aoe radius, 5 targets max .

Tether consume on allies has a worthwhile effect but the effect vs enemies has no damage as counterpart. So that's why it needs this change for also delivering aoe damage ontop of the vulnerability stacks.

 

•Solution Scepter lesser problems finetuning:

- Auto attack: Barrier shouldn't be granted only at the 3rd chain sequence. Spread the barrier numbers on 3 chain auto attacks, evenly. For Example if 3rd chain hit currently gives 1k barrier, it should give on each auto chain 333,33... instead. And a blast finisher on 3rd chain.

1st auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage

2nd auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage + x might

3rd auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage + x might + combo blast finisher. 

- 2nd skill Blossoming Aura: 

-10 energy cost => 5 energy cost

-Increase baseline pulsing damage.

-Increase baseline final hit.

-The final hit should be 5 target aoe and a combo blast finisher.

- 3rd skill Outwordly Bond (tether):

To make this all sync together. 

-Tether upkeep on enemy: The small area line of tether should function as a combo fire field, as long tether upkeep is active.

-Tether upkeep on ally: The small area line of tether should function as a combo light field, as long tether upkeep is active.

 

•Honorable mention for legendary weapon animations related:

Scepter animations with the chosen legendary weapon, should change its auto attacks, skill 2 explosion and tether animations around the legendary weapon theme.

It was beta so it might not have been applied yet, but in case it isn't done yet, please do <3.

[arazoth.7290]

Since scepter has now its icons and small little change to skill 3 tether. Made it little better but it's a bandage on the main problem, getting reliable stacks for tether effects/getting consume reliable off.

So imo, the direction to finish this design.

 

•Getting stacks is still bothersome for its full effect. Auto attacks gives stacks, but it should ALSO passively gain 1 stack/1sec on tether.

•The consume part of tether is easier to get then. But still little awkward, so best would be that you can trigger consume effect at any time to end the tether.

•

- Also consume tether effect on enemies needs some damage. Because compared to allies part, it's underwhelming.

- If tether consume effect doesn't gets damage. Give the tether uptime itself hybrid damage overtime on the target.

Side note on scepter skill 2:

Let it do aoe damage around the target with a blast finisher.

Edited February 2 by arazoth.7290

[Bish.8627]

Its better, but I still think auto attack needs to affect allies outside of hitting enemies

[Virdo.1540]

It would be cool if there could be a rule implemented, that Scepter 2 and 3 cant be used on minis, npcs and whatsoever (besides pets and players).
Otherwise you use it, it drains energy, goes on cooldown and you have absolutely no effect from it. And it does happen sometimes that if you wanna click a player, you hit a mini or npc

[valfx.5416]

They really need to rework the huge blade effect on the AA of scepter, it's awful and painful for the eyes.

It doesn't even match the range of the attack ... Why having this huge "ray" of 600+ range for an melee attack...

I don't even understand how this have been validated on Anet side, they know that the game suffered from clusterf*** visual due to all the AOE and stuff, why adding more s*** effects ?

I can't use the scepter more than 5min before my eyes burn.

[Tearthy Flame.1463]

Rev Scepter is so bizzarro, it's almost like a Mace- but we already have a Mace weapon? The Auto Attack made me laugh for 5 minutes, it's so silly looking! For several reasons...

How the Dev's could improve the AA visuals is a similar look a kin to the FireBrand Axe AA, a magical weapon attack that trails a few milliseconds behind the Scepter's AA swipe animation. Please, the Kylo Ren Lightsaber looks so bad- it literally has no discernable shape that looks unique.

But honestly, I'd rather have an actual Ranged Scepter, the visuals could be magical attacks from the Mists; monster/dragon claws ripping rifts in the time space afflicting cripple (Ground AoE Attack) as if there's a creature living in our Scepter, and another attack that's opening more Rifts where jaws come out of the ground- biting our foes and afflicting bleed & torment (yes, I'm talking about a Auto Attack Chain), ending with a Tail Spike Attack afflicting confusion. That's my recommendation. Break down: [1] AoE Rift Claw Afflict Cripple -> [2] AoE Rift Bite Afflict Bleed & Torment -> [3] (Scepter Swing, whips at Target Foe) Ranged Tail Spike Attack Afflict Confusion -> Repeat AA Chain.

As for the Allie(s) Targeting aspect- this mechanic has always felt horrible in GW2 and makes a weapon very annoying to use when you'd rather be attacking a Foe. If you want the Scepter 2 & 3 skills to supply boons to Allie(s) you need a AoE mechanic that randomly targets nearby players.

IMO, I would rather have skills 2 & 3 be related to giving Allie(s) boons through a reasonable means. And (I imagine this as skill 3) a CC (BreakBar Damage) attack, Rift Claws dragging a enemy away from the player (basically a single target Knockback CC). As for boons, I think Resolution on Rev Scepter [Skill 2] would be really cool, it's a little different and works with a lot of Traits in the Retribution Trait Line.

Hopefully, I've helped in some way- but these changes are pretty drastic; judging the state of the current Rev Scepter- it's looking really sad and doesn't feel great to play.

[Tobias.4975]

On 12/9/2023 at 10:24 PM, kroof.5468 said:

List of Tooltip ideas, for visualization: Revenant Scepter Ideas

I like the support direction for the scepter, and find it to be a nice pairing with the shield. Though, the range disparities feel off. Increasing the range of the auto-attack and making it a projectile would give something new to Rev that was never there before. Also the "ribbon" visuals on the 2nd ability could be a nice motif throughout the weapon.  The 2nd ability is nice, but feels a bit bloated with the tooltip and difficult to understand at a glance. The 3rd ability is where it really bloats to a confusing extent. 

Suggestions Abridged:

• Serene Cut - Acerbic Cut - Motivating Whirl: Add an Ally Target function so that the scepter can empower Skills 2 & 3, no matter the playstyle one is focusing on: Enemy Targets or Ally Targets. 
• Blossoming Aura: Damage could be improved a bit, but could feel more flexible if you could target an ally as well. With an auto-attack having ally target functions and Blossoming Aura -- one could really dive into that support playstyle. 
• Otherworldly Bond: It just need to be simplified. Feels complex for the sake of complexity, and the outcome of the skill is lackluster when compared to the overwhelming tooltip. Also have the tether function with the entire Revenant kit -- not just scepter. With it being an upkeep, it wastes its potential of flexibility for it to be entirely focused on the scepter. If the tether could maintain between weapon swaps, and just disconnect if out of range or empty energy, it could be used flexibly. Though, one could run into the issue of weapon swapping with lower energy and be locked out of canceling this ability -- perhaps a "skill-cap" potential for the weapon. 
   

I'm not a fan of allytargeting, but this is one step in the right direction. 👍

This 300 / 900 / 900 range is garbage like the animations. Compared to the other new weapons it is a betrayal against the revenant.

So please rework it and we don't talk about it any more.

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Tobias.4975 said:

I'm not a fan of allytargeting, but this is one step in the right direction. 👍

This 300 / 900 / 900 range is garbage like the animations. Compared to the other new weapons it is a betrayal against the revenant.

So please rework it and we don't talk about it any more.

Or like this =>

• Let scepter skill 2 and 3 be applied to enemy while the damage/support pulses around them but the user themself always has it around themself giving these effects. So if even no enemy is targetted, you stil apply support/damage around where you move.

This would make things more manageable already. So ally targeting is gone by this and only enemy/aoe around you. It wouldn't give double effects, same like multipble shades on scourge doesn't either.

• Some other issues beside the above how to replace ally targeting and still giving support:

- Scepter auto attack 900 range instead.

- Scepter skill 2 The pulsing damage should be halved to 2 seconds but 0,5 second interval and aoe to enemies/allies. Pulsing should give aoe damage/healing and the final blast should besides aoe barrier, also aoe damage.

- Scepter skill 3

*The tether duration halved to 3 seconds but 0,5 seconds duration for reaching 6 stacks. And unblockable applied.

*Tether damage increase on enemies replaced with pulsing aoe damage/healing around the enemy/user. 

*Replace pulsing might/fury with resolution/protection boons.

*Tether consume skill pulls the enemy if targeted or nearby enemy in 360 radius if not targeted and 2 second root on enemies in 360 radius around user. Around 360 radius user/enemy, allies get barrier and aegis.