Self Healing is horrible on Virtuoso. Here's Why

[Ovark.2514]

Illusionary Inspiration:

A: Won't heal when you summon a phantasm, only when that phantasm becomes a blade, and They fixed it since last post

B: Won't heal at all if you have full blades

 

Restorative Illusions will not grant increased healing for expending any blades over 3

 

Signet of the Ether: Just like Illusionary Inspiration will not heal if you have max blades

Edited March 23 by Ovark.2514
Clarity

[Gesbo.6420]

then... use the blades...with bountiful dissilusionment you will start granting boons. its part of your rotation?

[Ovark.2514]

24 minutes ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

then... use the blades...with bountiful dissilusionment you will start granting boons. its part of your rotation?

Except, on core, mirage, and chrono, if you use a clone summoning skill while having 3 clones out, your oldest clone dies to make way for the new one, proc-ing the trait and heal skill passive. I don't even care about granting boons or healing to allies. I want the healing for myself. Also I want things to make sense and for what you expect to happen to happen.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

It's almost like the virtuoso was never meant to be a support spec

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Virtuoso is made to be pure damage basically.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

5 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Illusionary Inspiration:

A: Won't heal when you summon a phantasm, only when that phantasm becomes a blade, and

B: Won't heal at all if you have full blades

A: It does, once when you summon and once when it becomes a blade. 

B: just shatter?

Quote

Restorative Illusions will not grant increased healing for expending any blades over 3

It does scale with blades. See wiki note.  

Quote

Signet of the Ether: Just like Illusionary Inspiration will not heal if you have max blades

just shatter?

And the reason why Virt doesn't stock more blades after capping max blades is because Virt also stocks blades automatically, well out of combat but still. There must be a maximum point or otherwise Virt will continue to stock blades infinitely. 

[Micah.3789]

So, literally your only accurate complaint is that you won't heal from generating blades when maxed... and as already mentioned this can easily be remedied by shattering and is in your best interest to do anyway. In the time you took to come complain and spread misinformation, you could have just tested these things yourself. These forums would be a much better place without this kind of ignorant self righteousness. 

[Gesbo.6420]

you literally have atrait that heals you... on shatter... just do it bro

[madafakasuperretek.8357]

virtus heal are ok , the condi cleanse is the problem because the restorative illusions was moved on a grand trait

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

The problem is more that even if you'd fix all of those bugs and interactions, why would you run a heal Virtuoso (aside from 'because I can lol') over a heal Mirage (if it gets what it needs) or more importantly heal Chronomancer?

The other mesmer specs both get some new toys to improve support builds through their traits and utilities, meanwhile Virt gets none of that.

[zeyeti.8347]

Guys sorry to be a party pooper but you basically want the mirage and the virtuoso to be a healing meta class ? i can feel like mirage has some potential , it just lack boons access , but just look at the virtuoso traitline : there is nothing for allies ! not a single trait has a benefit for your allies , as said above virtuoso is pure damage , not every spec can be a healing spec.

I understand OP that the traits he's talking about has weird interactions with blades , but blades are completely different from clones and you gain them way faster than clones , so maybe this is intended.

[Mevelios.4809]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

blades are completely different from clones and you gain them way faster than clones , so maybe this is intended.

That's the thing - what you get for giving up on quick/alac is a pure, powerful healer. It'll contribute with more ease than other ordinary healers to the damages (precisely because you need to get rid of blades) while still dishing out a bunch of heals, but so far the content doesn't expect such high numbers - rather it allows a quick/alac heal. Ordinary groups stick to that, so unless you're in any run with guildies/friends that already cover these boons, virtuoso remains the least interesting option we've got.

On the opposite, it's unbelievably tanky and works wonders as such, yet again - it doesn't compete with chrono, because the latter can do the same while providing quick/alac around.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mevelios.4809

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Guys sorry to be a party pooper but you basically want the mirage and the virtuoso to be a healing meta class ?

He meant the self-sustain heal you get from certain things that trigger when an illusion is created, not talking about being healer.

Also everybody already knows heal Virt is a meme, it's mad fun ever since EoD release but yes it has no place in any serious instanced content groups. 

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i can feel like mirage has some potential , it just lack boons access

Heal Mirage is a meme too in the same vein that none of Mirage traits even offer a supportive playstyle. In fact it doesn't have any group heals, and its boon share is even more poor and restrictive than Virt due to not wanting to Shatter at all. The only reason why people don't consider it terrible at such role, even worse than Virt to be precise, is purely because it could provide Alac.

Yes I know the Rifle remedies a lot of Heal Mirage problems, but with poor Alac access and general boon sharing problems it can never really be a thing unless they tack Alac directly on the Rifle ambush itself. The staff ambush could get Vigor instead.  

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but just look at the virtuoso traitline : there is nothing for allies ! not a single trait has a benefit for your allies , as said above virtuoso is pure damage , not every spec can be a healing spec.

Technically with the new Chaos traitline rework you can share a lot of Protection and Regen, some Might, Vigor, Fury, it even has Stability + Aegis share on demand, along with some very impressive healing output. The primary reason why no one plays it is simple: Heal Virt doesn't offer Alac or Quick.

Give it access to either and you'll see people flocking to it like flies to a light source. 

[appelflap.8310]

On 12/2/2023 at 8:14 AM, Micah.3789 said:

So, literally your only accurate complaint is that you won't heal from generating blades when maxed... and as already mentioned this can easily be remedied by shattering and is in your best interest to do anyway. In the time you took to come complain and spread misinformation, you could have just tested these things yourself. These forums would be a much better place without this kind of ignorant self righteousness. 

So why do you come here flaming when you don't know what OP meant? 😄 These forums would be a much better place without this kind of ignorant self righteousness right?

 

[Micah.3789]

8 hours ago, appelflap.8310 said:

you don't know what OP meant

Care to elaborate? I see no misunderstanding here. I tested precisely what the OP claimed and they were incorrect about:

On 12/1/2023 at 7:03 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Illusionary Inspiration:

A: Won't heal when you summon a phantasm [...]

Restorative Illusions will not grant increased healing for expending any blades over 3

[Ovark.2514]

9 hours ago, Micah.3789 said:

Care to elaborate? I see no misunderstanding here. I tested precisely what the OP claimed and they were incorrect about:

I tested all these things against the golem with the ticking damage and my post are the results. You only heal on phantasm summon with Illusionary Inspiration if you have core, mirage, or chrono equipped. If you have the Restorative Illusions  trait equipped, expending 3 blades has the same healing as 4 or 5 blades (contrary to what the wiki claims). Even if the Wiki is correct numbers wise, and the trait is actually updated to scale all the way to 5 blades, the healing per blade is preemptively nearfed so that 5 blades barely heals more than 3 clones. Pathetic

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

On 12/1/2023 at 5:03 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Illusionary Inspiration:

A: Won't heal when you summon a phantasm, only when that phantasm becomes a blade, and

B: Won't heal at all if you have full blades

 

Restorative Illusions will not grant increased healing for expending any blades over 3

 

Signet of the Ether: Just like Illusionary Inspiration will not heal if you have max blades

I mean this has been a complaint since beta, if they wanted this interaction, they probably would have already put it in. 

[Ellon.4316]

5 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

You only heal on phantasm summon with Illusionary Inspiration if you have core, mirage, or chrono equipped.

Just tested it on virtuoso, illusionary inspiration is triggering when summoning pBerserker, pSwordsman, pDisenchanter. And also triggers when the phantasm becomes a clone. This was on a standard power-dps build (dueling replaced with inspiration) so either this is some weird bug that only triggers with certain traits or you missed something in your testing.

That traits that "trigger on summon" don't trigger when you cant summon more blades might be annoying but I somewhat get it.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Ellon.4316

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:41 AM, Ovark.2514 said:

I tested all these things against the golem with the ticking damage and my post are the results. You only heal on phantasm summon with Illusionary Inspiration if you have core, mirage, or chrono equipped. If you have the Restorative Illusions  trait equipped, expending 3 blades has the same healing as 4 or 5 blades (contrary to what the wiki claims). Even if the Wiki is correct numbers wise, and the trait is actually updated to scale all the way to 5 blades, the healing per blade is preemptively nearfed so that 5 blades barely heals more than 3 clones. Pathetic

Are you sure that you don't have full blades when the Phantasms are done?

 

Because it heals when the phantasm is created and when it transitions into a clone.

But as the Virtuoso works on stocking blades it only will get the second heal if you don't have full blades.

So you may be only seeing one heal if you haven't used a Shatter recently.

[Voyant.1327]

It used to be amazing before the Inspiration line nerfs, you could output 3.5k single target healing easily by sheer blade spam. The outgoing healing vs. healing power is garbage.

Now its simply not worth taking at all, as Chaos is better in conjunction with Illusion in every way for Virt support. It lost a lot as a DPS source but you simply don't need more then the healing regen with the amount of defensives you can upkeep. 

You're better off spamming bladesongs with chaos then using Illusion at all. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, Voyant.1327 said:

It used to be amazing before the Inspiration line nerfs, you could output 3.5k single target healing easily by sheer blade spam. The outgoing healing vs. healing power is garbage.

Now its simply not worth taking at all, as Chaos is better in conjunction with Illusion in every way for Virt support. It lost a lot as a DPS source but you simply don't need more then the healing regen with the amount of defensives you can upkeep. 

You're better off spamming bladesongs with chaos then using Illusion at all. 

?

They only increased the amount of healing the Virtuoso can do. Restorative Illusions now heals the group while before it didn't.

Healing Prism did but that was only every 10 seconds, was less than Restorative Illusions and triggered on your Illusion summons.

 

Sure you can provide more boons now but the Inspiration Virtuoso only got more healing.

[Voyant.1327]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:41 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

?

They only increased the amount of healing the Virtuoso can do. Restorative Illusions now heals the group while before it didn't.

Healing Prism did but that was only every 10 seconds, was less than Restorative Illusions and triggered on your Illusion summons.

 

Sure you can provide more boons now but the Inspiration Virtuoso only got more healing.

My builds all saw a healing decrease to the point I dropped the line completely. My only guess is that being brought over 1k healing power had some sort of breakpoint that the outgoing healing replacement diminished. 

I know it doesn't make any sense but I lost about 800- 1k healing per target, was super frustrating.

But in the end its not a big deal bc Chaos renders the line completely inert as you don't even really need more then the regen and defensive boons. With the amount of aegis/protection you can spam there's simply no need for it. (not even including the gazillion chaos auras)

 

[Ellon.4316]

I think you are confusing actual heals per second (arc logs this one) and potential heals per second. The last one has been buffed by the recent patch but the first one is “nerfed”. This might sound bad but actually isn’t. 
For example you can’t heal someone that is at 100% health because there is nothing to heal. No matter your skill or traits you will never exceed 0hps. With the last patch mesmer can consistently apply protection. Meaning everyone takes 33% less damage so there is also 33% less damage to heal which drops your actual heals per second by 33%. This is assuming that before the patch you could keep everyone at 100% health.

Heals per second are a nice stat but they only tell half the story. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ellon.4316
Words are hard

[Kauna Arget.7052]

Virtuoso technically heals more per second than chrono does, but it lacks the boons. This has always been the case. Even with the rework to chaos, you require other people to do other boons (quick/alac and to help with things like might and possibly fury, though you can do full fury in theory). Chrono has fewer of these issues and is the better heal spec. Mirage for healing is horrible due to the alacrity generation being solely on staff ambush from a trait right now. From the pov of a mesmer main who mostly does endgame PvE content at least. I loved heal virtuoso (healing through daggers way more fun than wells people can run out of), but even with shield, getting the boon generation out takes a lot of work and some other people helping, so kinda a specialist comp anyway.

[Micah.3789]

4 hours ago, Kauna Arget.7052 said:

Mirage for healing is horrible due to the alacrity generation being solely on staff ambush from a trait right now.

While I would agree that mirage is MUCH less comfortable to heal on than chrono or frankly and other meta heal class, it's not fair to call it horrible. It's perfectly doable, and in the hands of a skilled player it can be rewarding in ways the other classes aren't. I've been maining a mirage healer since the trait overall and use it in everything from raids to fractal CMs. It excels as a cele hybrid while still bringing adequate healing and incredible utility. Raw healing output is its weakness, but that's only relevant if you're trying to solo heal 10 man content. For reference, I've healed pug BS with it just fine, putting out 6-9k hps depending on how much fail damage everyone takes. All that said, I do still think it would be reasonable to improve the QoL and build flexibility by unbinding alacrity as a staff exclusive boon.