Do you like to have expansions and updates with a fixed and predictable deadline and content?

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

There isn't a situation where you have layoffs and end up with more people.

Arenanet themselves didn't end up with more people, but GW2 ended up having more people working on it, after the other projects were cancelled. Not all workers from those projects were laid off. Some were moved onto GW2.

But we don't know how much has changed since then.

[KindredPhoenyx.8976]

2 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

This thread has ignored one of the major reasons there is less content - inflation and the wold economy.  Costs have increased (massively).  So lets say inflation is running at 7% a year, in 3 years we either have to pay 20% more, or get 20% less content than we did 3 years ago.  in this time inflation has also affected the customer base so they spend less and as Anet allows players to play with no Sub, the cost to players per hour played is objectively less than every other AAA mmorpg on the market.  To give you an example, eve online is now $20 a month.

I'm not downvoting this as people tend to use the confused emoji for, I am legit confused here.

Like am I interpreting you correctly, in saying that GW2 is more expensive to run these days or? 'cause I'm genuinely more under the impression it's less inflation and more NCsoft are putting their money on other projects (T&L (Lineage 3), possible Horizon (Zero Dawn/Forbidden West) MMO). GW2 doesn't seem to be getting enough atm to uphold the quantity/quality needed to engage their audience right now. 

1 hour ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

I would also happily pay a sub if it helped, perhaps one that gives a bonus to magic find , bonus storage and build slots and gems each period.

I really wouldn't encourage it. Subs are gatekeepy in their own right and its a reason why many people refuse to play WoW and FFXIV. You could argue it'd help Anet but I'm really wondering at what cost to their consumer. (I really don't want to see people barking up the tree of sub + shop cosmetics + expansions + living world episode costs and all that. Oh boy, the forums would be an even bigger mess than they already are.)

Personally for the OP: I'd rather predictable (we know what we're getting) and when it's ready. Champions/the rest of IBS could have done so much better if they weren't on a crunch time to meet deadlines (I understand how businesses work, but the problem in modern day gaming has turned into business and less about passion (more from the higher ups: in this case, NCsoft) than the devs) and left with a skeleton crew to shove the content out the door bare bones in prep for EoD. If Destiny 2 is anything to by with Bungie of late, infinite growth models can be dangerous and I'm mildly on the wariness side of things with what we're getting is the beginning result of that due to possible upper management pressure.
Honestly, it's a multitude of issues right now they're not likely to tell us. It could be experimentation, it could be a lack of funding, it could be quota things, who knows.

Edited December 17, 2023 by KindredPhoenyx.8976

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I prefer a fixed schedule and within that, the content that can be delivered with sufficient quality. So a fixed schedule with unpredictable content to keep the quality of the content up to standard.

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet themselves didn't end up with more people, but GW2 ended up having more people working on it, after the other projects were cancelled. Not all workers from those projects were laid off. Some were moved onto GW2.

But we don't know how much has changed since then.

As far as we know, Anet now has significantly more employees than at the time leading from HoT through LS3 to PoF. At the same time they seem to no longer be able to support even close to as much amount of work as they could then. So, either the effectiveness of resources they allocate to GW2 is significantly lower now, or most of those resources are currently being spent elsewhere. On the other projects we know Anet is (again) working on in the background.

[Vayne.8563]

12 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

There isn't a situation where you have layoffs and end up with more people. I'm not making any theories, I don't know  why the game updates are getting worse.  Is the game putting out content slower than before? Seems like they plan to be putting it out more often to to me, so they can charge more often for lower quality quickly done content.

 Okay let's explain this in a way that's clearer. because what you're saying is is both correct and incorrect.

I worked for a company that had multiple businesses. We laid off many people from one of the businesses that wasn't doing well. Fortunately it wasn't the one I was working on, though I was moved to that newer business temporarily to help close it down.

The number of people working in the business I was in all along remained the same. The people hired for the other business and subsequently fired didn't impact the number of people working at my business even a little. Not at all. In fact, one of the people managed to move from that business back to our business and after the layoffs, my business had an extra person. Our numbers went up.

We're not interested in the number of people working at Arena Net, or at least i'm not. I'm interested in the number of people working at Arena Net on Guild Wars 2. If they fire people working on other non-Guild Wars 2 projects that doesn't affect the number of people working on Guild Wars 2 at all. If people who had been hired to work on those projects move to Guild Wars 2, then there are MORE people working on Guild Wars 2.

The number of people working at Arena Net can go up and down without affecting the number of people working on Guild Wars 2.

Thanks for attending my Ted Talk.

[Bingus.4236]

11 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet themselves didn't end up with more people, but GW2 ended up having more people working on it, after the other projects were cancelled. Not all workers from those projects were laid off. Some were moved onto GW2.

But we don't know how much has changed since then.

 

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

As far as we know, Anet now has significantly more employees than at the time leading from HoT through LS3 to PoF. At the same time they seem to no longer be able to support even close to as much amount of work as they could then. So, either the effectiveness of resources they allocate to GW2 is significantly lower now, or most of those resources are currently being spent elsewhere. On the other projects we know Anet is (again) working on in the background.

I'm sorry, do you have a roster? Do you know how many -people Anet has working there? Do you know how many people they have working there that are working on Guild Wars 2? Do you know how many people were working there on Guild Wars 2 than there were back then? I only ask because when people make statements like this it implies specific knowledge. Unless you actually work there, or have a very good friend working there, I doubt you have that knowledge. 

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We're not interested in the number of people working at Arena Net, or at least i'm not. I'm interested in the number of people working at Arena Net on Guild Wars 2. If they fire people working on other non-Guild Wars 2 projects that doesn't affect the number of people working on Guild Wars 2 at all. If people who had been hired to work on those projects move to Guild Wars 2, then there are MORE people working on Guild Wars 2.

It'd be sad if the current content was the result of putting more human resources into the game but there you go.

[Vayne.8563]

24 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

I'm sorry, do you have a roster? Do you know how many -people Anet has working there? Do you know how many people they have working there that are working on Guild Wars 2? Do you know how many people were working there on Guild Wars 2 than there were back then? I only ask because when people make statements like this it implies specific knowledge. Unless you actually work there, or have a very good friend working there, I doubt you have that knowledge. 

It'd be sad if the current content was the result of putting more human resources into the game but there you go.

As I said, the combination of changes to management, and losing a few key people to a company, even if you replace them can wreak hell on a company trying to keep a schedule. What's sad is people not understanding that covid happened and Amazon opened a game studio down the block from Anet and it's not supposed to affect anything. 

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

As far as we know, Anet now has significantly more employees than at the time leading from HoT through LS3 to PoF. At the same time they seem to no longer be able to support even close to as much amount of work as they could then. So, either the effectiveness of resources they allocate to GW2 is significantly lower now, or most of those resources are currently being spent elsewhere. On the other projects we know Anet is (again) working on in the background.

If I remember correctly, Arenanet having "significantly" more employees than during HoT and PoF is an older statement, which may no longer reflect the current state.

There also the possibility that the good and experienced staff have left and been replaced with not-as-capable people. That would also reduce the quality of a product, even if more people work on it.

It may also be a "too many cooks" situation.

 

 

[Balsa.3951]

i will not preorder another expansion. and wait a year to get what i bought.

thank u anet

when its ready can only my parents say to me when they bake me a cake

Edited December 18, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

I'm sorry, do you have a roster? Do you know how many -people Anet has working there? Do you know how many people they have working there that are working on Guild Wars 2? Do you know how many people were working there on Guild Wars 2 than there were back then? I only ask because when people make statements like this it implies specific knowledge. Unless you actually work there, or have a very good friend working there, I doubt you have that knowledge. 

It'd be sad if the current content was the result of putting more human resources into the game but there you go.

I do not have a roster, but there have been some mentions in the past. We know, for example (due to old MO announcement when he was mentioning dev teams shortly around the time of HoT revamp April patch) that they've had 220 devs then. We know that somewhere around LS4 (and shortly before layoffs) they had over 400 employees (although, notice the difference between devs and employees). From what we've heard shortly after layoffs, they still ended with over 300 people after those (layoffs as far as we've heard lost them somewhere around 140-150 people - precise number is unknown since some people just left around that time separately) - and after announcing EoD they started hiring again. Last info i heard (around EoD launch) put them at somewhere around 400-450 people range. Seemingly current list at signalhire has 278 names, but also seems to be limited to devs/core staff (and i am not so sure how complete it is) so probably is lower than actual full employee numbers - although it is also possible that there's been quiet layoffs after EoD. Although i think we would have heard about that, i cannot completely rule that out.

Notice though, that even though they are still hiring, practically all of it is being done for non-GW2 projects (which can be seen from their hiring page). And that it has been true for quite a long time already.

You can draw your own conclusions from it.

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There also the possibility that the good and experienced staff have left and been replaced with not-as-capable people. That would also reduce the quality of a product, even if more people work on it.

That's also a fair point. We do know some senior people were laid off/left and had to be replaced with more "newer" ones. It having no impact at all on quality/effectiveness of work indeed seems quite unlikely.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,
I'm locking this thread as it's run its course.
Regards.