Alacrity Spellbreaker and Utility rework

[firedragon.8953]

Piggy backing off of this thread, I propose that spellbreaker be made the alacrity elite spec for warrior.

Very rough idea, but...

Consider putting alacrity on Slow Counter (Full Counter applies cripple and slow to enemies and alacrity to allies). 
Natural Healing - Lose boons and conditions, then heal yourself.  Lose boons and conditions, granting barrier and regeneration to yourself and allies.
Imminent Threat - Taunt nearby foes, gaining adrenaline for each affected foe. Apply protection and resolution to yourself and allies and instantly recharge Full Counter.
Featherfoot Grace - Gain a burst of superspeed and resistance. Apply stability [5 stacks] and superspeed to yourself and allies.

With the introduction of staff and it's burst skill as well as Spellbreaker utilities being essentially useless, I propose a rework like that above to meditation skills to be more heal/support focused with full counter applying alacrity.  The theme is that Spellbreaker meditations affect the area around them (positive for allies/negative for enemies).

Bladesworn was sold to us as a high-dps speciation, and that's exactly what it should be, a greedy dps that gives up almost all it's utility to do high cleave burst damage (also restore Daring Dragon to PvP trait). Its builds are generally very inflexible due to no burst or weapon swap, etc. It's profession identity is to use the gunblade (sworn to it as it were) and slice down foes. So let it do that, and give spellbreaker a defensive-heal/support (alac) build with berserker more of the offensive support (quick dps.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The only problem I see is triggering full counter consistently. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The only problem I see is triggering full counter consistently. 

 

Let us trigger it manually in lieu of getting the block.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[firedragon.8953]

I suppose the skill could be like this instead.

Slow Counter - Full Counter applies cripple and slow to enemies. Burst skills apply alacrity to allies. 
That way both Full Counter and F1 burst skills apply alacrity which should solve the problem of consistency.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

6 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I suppose the skill could be like this instead.

Slow Counter - Full Counter applies cripple and slow to enemies. Burst skills apply alacrity to allies. 
That way both Full Counter and F1 burst skills apply alacrity which should solve the problem of consistency.

I personally would remove slow counter and create a new trait that grants Aoe Alacrity when you gain a stack of attackers insight. 

[Jzaku.9765]

Look at it this way - the Spellbreaker shell is literally just Core Warrior with an extra button.

If I were in charge of making a rework of Spellbreaker to turn it into a support spec I would be incredibly hard-pressed to make something both exciting and competitive, because it would just be all the same stuff they've been trying to staple onto Core Warrior for years. Busted sustain traits, reworks to utility skills that compete with Shouts AND Banners for space on your bar. You slap an effect on "Full Counter" which is literally no different from an effect on "Burst Skill" except now you have to caveat it with suddenly needing to make Full Counter triggerable without being attacked.

Gameplay-wise, it would just be more Core Warrior. Which I guess is what some people keep saying they want. But it certainly isn't for me - I've had 11 years to play with Core Warrior, thanks. It's not like it's going to go away anytime soon.

Bladesworn's shell at least has a LOT of new buttons and form changes to play with were you to rework it into a support spec. Even just a trait that turns Dragon Slash into something that heals + supports allies it hits (with optional Ally targeting) is already a more fun gameplay changeup than anything you can do to Spellbreaker.

Just something to think about to push against this wave of "Spellbreaker should be the Alac spec!" that's been going about recently. Spellbreaker, at least in PVE, is even more one dimensional of a Spec than Bladesworn is. Which is quite an achievement. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Jzaku.9765

[firedragon.8953]

11 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Look at it this way - the Spellbreaker shell is literally just Core Warrior with an extra button.

I'd argue that is because meditation skills are never worth taking and so the flavor tastes the same as core warrior + Full Counter.
If Spellbreaker was given the utilities to be group support (as described above) and Full Counter/Burst supplying alacrity, the payoff of bursting, countering, bursting again would be huge (and arguably needed since the new staff burst skill would only be Stage 1 adrenaline).

But sure, you're right about Bladesworn being a lot different. But the build is still really fixed because it's all about getting off as many dragon triggers as possible, that's it and the BSw utilities reflect that. I suppose they could take "Immortal Dragon" and change it to "Equip your gunsaber with healing cartridges for healing explosions. Grant alacrity to you and allies whenever you convert flow into charges." However, this would likely be yet another offensive build (which berserker can do) and not defensive. This would do little to address warrior's poor group utility, so I don't see it as a real competitive option. I mean most, spellbreaker utilities skill are just sitting there unused (and hence, again why it just feels like core warrior).

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Look at it this way - the Spellbreaker shell is literally just Core Warrior with an extra button.

If I were in charge of making a rework of Spellbreaker to turn it into a support spec I would be incredibly hard-pressed to make something both exciting and competitive, because it would just be all the same stuff they've been trying to staple onto Core Warrior for years. Busted sustain traits, reworks to utility skills that compete with Shouts AND Banners for space on your bar. You slap an effect on "Full Counter" which is literally no different from an effect on "Burst Skill" except now you have to caveat it with suddenly needing to make Full Counter triggerable without being attacked.

Gameplay-wise, it would just be more Core Warrior. Which I guess is what some people keep saying they want. But it certainly isn't for me - I've had 11 years to play with Core Warrior, thanks. It's not like it's going to go away anytime soon.

Bladesworn's shell at least has a LOT of new buttons and form changes to play with were you to rework it into a support spec. Even just a trait that turns Dragon Slash into something that heals + supports allies it hits (with optional Ally targeting) is already a more fun gameplay changeup than anything you can do to Spellbreaker.

Just something to think about to push against this wave of "Spellbreaker should be the Alac spec!" that's been going about recently. Spellbreaker, at least in PVE, is even more one dimensional of a Spec than Bladesworn is. Which is quite an achievement. 

From my perspective, I would love to be able to fulfill the role of heal alac on Warrior. But not on Bladesworn. 

Simply because Bladesworn goes so much against what I consider fun, if it actually got that role, I would just keep playing Druid instead. 

Bladesworn is so unfun to me, I don't even see it as part of the Warrior kit. So it getting a role would be meaningless for me. 

Thats just my personal reason. I know that this is kind of a stupid take but it's true for me. 

[Jzaku.9765]

3 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I'd argue that is because meditation skills are never worth taking and so the flavor tastes the same as core warrior + Full Counter.
If Spellbreaker was given the utilities to be group support (as described above) and Full Counter/Burst supplying alacrity, the payoff of bursting, countering, bursting again would be huge (and arguably needed since the new staff burst skill would only be Stage 1 adrenaline).

But sure, you're right about Bladesworn being a lot different. But the build is still really fixed because it's all about getting off as many dragon triggers as possible, that's it and the BSw utilities reflect that. I suppose they could take "Immortal Dragon" and change it to "Equip your gunsaber with healing cartridges for healing explosions. Grant alacrity to you and allies whenever you convert flow into charges." However, this would likely be yet another offensive build (which berserker can do) and not defensive. This would do little to address warrior's poor group utility, so I don't see it as a real competitive option. I mean most, spellbreaker utilities skill are just sitting there unused (and hence, again why it just feels like core warrior).

I mentioned it in my previous post but I'll say it again: Reworked utilities will have to compete with Shouts AND/OR Banners, which are already pretty strong skills. We already have good support utilities. You would just be spending a lot of time and effort making brand new skills for no reason because some minor buffs like Banner cast time reduction would make our existing ones incredible. Support Warrior's utility slots are insanely pressured as it is, trying to squeeze everything other classes offer into the 5 buttons on the right side of your bar. 

What Warrior lacks, as many people in this subforum point out but somehow don't draw the connecting line, is a support Elite spec. Something like Druid that slaps an entire form change with 5 more skills onto the Ranger shell. As some other people rightly conclude in unrelated threads, more skills = more good. There's a reason why pre-initiative Firebrand was the most busted spec in the entire game with 15 extra skills on their F-keys. 

Also, with current balance numbers Bladesworn doesn't need to get off "as many dragon triggers as possible" on a support build. If Alac Bsw can upkeep 100% Alacrity with 0 boon duration (which it does and in fact overcaps substantially), Support Bsw with 100% boon duration could be afk for half the fight and still upkeep Alacrity, spending all that time doing other support related things. 

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

From my perspective, I would love to be able to fulfill the role of heal alac on Warrior. But not on Bladesworn. 

Simply because Bladesworn goes so much against what I consider fun, if it actually got that role, I would just keep playing Druid instead. 

Bladesworn is so unfun to me, I don't even see it as part of the Warrior kit. So it getting a role would be meaningless for me. 

Thats just my personal reason. I know that this is kind of a stupid take but it's true for me. 

I could say the same thing about Spellbreaker, netting neutral between us. (I don't actually feel this way about Spellbreaker)

[Fueki.4753]

12 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

What Warrior lacks, as many people in this subforum point out but somehow don't draw the connecting line, is a support Elite spec.

Paragon in GW1 was basically a supportive Warrior. They could have adapted Paragon as a Warrior elite specialization, instead of inventing something completely new. But they didn't want to do that.

A modernized Paragon could have fit so much better with Warrior's theme than Junksworn, which feels (to me at least) like a pile of cut ideas for Engineer specializations.

And no, Guardian doesn't count as a modern Paragon.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Leo G.4501]

On 12/25/2023 at 10:40 PM, Jzaku.9765 said:

Look at it this way - the Spellbreaker shell is literally just Core Warrior with an extra button.

If I were in charge of making a rework of Spellbreaker to turn it into a support spec I would be incredibly hard-pressed to make something both exciting and competitive, ...

You had me at 'rework Spellbreaker into something more exciting' but then you started talking about changing Bladesworn DS into ally target heals and junk. 

Why that's a bad idea is because you're just bait-switching your players even harder, removing stuff players picked up the spec for and swapping it with junk no one asked for in hopes it plays different from core War (hint: it already plays different mechanically from core).

I think SB has room to grow, if we look at just the utilities themselves. If it's too similar to core, I could see adding onto it to give it more uniqueness but no idea if it needs it or not in competitive modes. Shilling an old idea I had way back, giving it a latent magic resource bar that fills every time boons are stripped near you (a la necro life force) that doesn't decay out of combat. What one could design with that in mind is up to the goal for the spec, but I never consider giving players something for nothing as sustainable which is why it's tie it to semi-active resource management. Have it add effects to full counter/bursts, boost support or even give the spec an F3.

That all said, I do enjoy reading the improvement ideas in the thread. Definitely think alac fits better conceptually on SB too.

[Jzaku.9765]

1 hour ago, Leo G.4501 said:

You had me at 'rework Spellbreaker into something more exciting' but then you started talking about changing Bladesworn DS into ally target heals and junk. 

Why that's a bad idea is because you're just bait-switching your players even harder, removing stuff players picked up the spec for and swapping it with junk no one asked for in hopes it plays different from core War (hint: it already plays different mechanically from core).

I think SB has room to grow, if we look at just the utilities themselves. If it's too similar to core, I could see adding onto it to give it more uniqueness but no idea if it needs it or not in competitive modes. Shilling an old idea I had way back, giving it a latent magic resource bar that fills every time boons are stripped near you (a la necro life force) that doesn't decay out of combat. What one could design with that in mind is up to the goal for the spec, but I never consider giving players something for nothing as sustainable which is why it's tie it to semi-active resource management. Have it add effects to full counter/bursts, boost support or even give the spec an F3.

That all said, I do enjoy reading the improvement ideas in the thread. Definitely think alac fits better conceptually on SB too.

You dramatically misunderstood the thrust of my post. Effectively I am saying that the shell of Spellbreaker is too shallow, because I'm being realistic about how much work they are willing put into this fringe build. There's far more levers that already exist in Bladesworn to tweak.

Of course nothing I say matters when your vision of "Spellbreaker the Alac spec" is a massive rework on the level of adding brand new spec mechanics. No realistic change can outshine your unchecked imagination. 

[Leo G.4501]

5 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

You dramatically misunderstood the thrust of my post. Effectively I am saying that the shell of Spellbreaker is too shallow, because I'm being realistic about how much work they are willing put into this fringe build. There's far more levers that already exist in Bladesworn to tweak.

Of course nothing I say matters when your vision of "Spellbreaker the Alac spec" is a massive rework on the level of adding brand new spec mechanics. No realistic change can outshine your unchecked imagination. 

I can agree with that. I still think, just because Bladesworn has several unique things in it's pocket, that is the go ahead to start swapping out levers for new buttons. If I had the choice of original U.dragon and D.dragon, I'd gladly take no alac on warrior at all for it.

And I'm just saying, if Spellbreaker is just core with an extra button, that sounds like the candidate to add more buttons to without swapping any levers out.

[Yasai.3549]

I still feel that they should put Alac and Quickness generating traits in Core traitline and make all Especs actually strong and different .-.

[xellink.7568]

9 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I still feel that they should put Alac and Quickness generating traits in Core traitline and make all Especs actually strong and different .-.

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