January 30 Balance Update Preview Thief Changes

[Eugenides.1274]

Quote

Thief

Deadeye has been growing in popularity in PvP over the last few months, and we've seen that it can be a bit too difficult to lock down for the damage it's capable of dealing. We're increasing the initiative cost of Death's Advance to require a larger resource investment for the survivability that it provides.

• Skirmisher's Shot: Reduced the power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.7 in PvP only.
• Death's Advance: Increased the initiative cost from 2 to 4 in PvP only.

First balance patch of 2024 to be let down by. 🫡
Time to start sacrificing quaggans in the hopes of getting even a single QoL/forced movement/sword/acro/etc buff in the next patch.

Will probably just be PvE axe nerfs.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

4 hours ago, Eugenides.1274 said:

First balance patch of 2024 to be let down by. 🫡
Time to start sacrificing quaggans in the hopes of getting even a single QoL/forced movement/sword/acro/etc buff in the next patch.

Will probably just be PvE axe nerfs.

its a preview. they arent ready for thief updates quite yet and we dont know if this is everything

[MorningGlow.5376]

I wouldn't expect anything drastic anytime soon. Right now the Devs are busy preparing axe for live. And once it is live, rebalancing in some form is to be expected, until it is in the place where the they want to see it. After that is done, they will once again have the capacity to adress other issues.

But that's just my prediction.

[remorseless.6352]

Another nerfed spec 🤣

[Metze.2849]

A design decision that makes me sad.
Currently only DE builds can do damage with the rifle. And they are bound to their marked target for 25 seconds due to their class mechanics. They cannot efficiently deal damage to other targets during this time. DE in a few words: high damage, but only against the marked target.

Weapon Master allows the weapon set to be used on non DE builds. However, high initiative costs and moderate damage make it pointless to use.
The announced balance update will make this situation even worse:
-Skirmisher's Shot should deal less damage
-Preparation and use of Death's Advance should now cost 10 initiative (3 actions necessary: Kneel (2 ini) + Sniper's Cover (4 ini) + Death's Advance (4 ini))

As for the initiative cost adjustment, Anet always seems to assume that the thief has 15 initiative (12 + 3 from Preparedness (Trickery)). This makes the trait Trickery mandatory for every thief player in pvp.

[Szymon.5369]

2 hours ago, Metze.2849 said:

As for the initiative cost adjustment, Anet always seems to assume that the thief has 15 initiative (12 + 3 from Preparedness (Trickery)). This makes the trait Trickery mandatory for every thief player in pvp.

My half-joke pet theory is that it's a way of balancing thieves' burst damage so they can't pick Critical Strikes in PvP modes, as balance team seems somewhat content in Thieves picking Espec+Trickery+ either Deadly or Shadow Arts in every build ever. Notice that Trickery's only damage modifier is stacking with initiative use so you can't really burst with it. Tinfoil hat or not?

But even if that's the case, they probably don't have to, even without the improved initiative cap Trickery offers a lot of Steal buffs that would on their own make it a substantial trade-off, it doesn't need to hammer the point that hard.

[Asra.8746]

Fact of the matter is, regardless of how much censoring moderators do, it's been evident to any thief player that's been playing for years that the balance team has no clue what to do with thief...especially so because none of the team members actually play thief at any sort of relevant level, nor care about the class and its problems (bugs inclusive - it's why bugs from a decade ago still exist to-date), unless there's a massive uproar about them (and this does not happen with thief because there's only a few thief players in the game compared to the other classes).

I saw a post in Reddit yesterday that had a video from the new balance team from over a year ago regarding initiative trade off on Specter. Notice how since then, nothing has changed and in fact, initiative costs have only gone up. If you don't recall, initiative cost of Twilight Combo was also increased shortly before this. In case anyone forgot, they killed Sc/D in competitive mode by nerfing it on multiple levels: effectiveness AND initiative cost. It's like the team believes that Thieves should only be allowed to use 1-2 skill at most before becoming a sitting duck or desperately running away waiting for initiative (and funnily enough, the average player takes this as a form of losing to the thief - absolutely illogical); whereas other classes literally gets to rotato potato their skills with almost no downtime on your face.

So, it still surprises me to see some people still expecting anything good for thief from the balance team after over a decade of this nonsense, attempting to give feedback to the team, when they clearly just sweep it all under the rug. This will happen with axe too btw. Scepter bugs that were reported in both betas still exist to-date; and the same will happen with axe, where bugs will not be addressed for years (if at all).

There's negativity and there's drawing conclusions from historical performance based on data - this is the latter.

NB: I'm going to enjoy 2 ammunition Barrage on my Soulbeast. Also, GS is getting a massive buff in PvE cause Ranger was clearly really struggling with burst power dps. Meanwhile, sword thief is just sitting around.

Edited January 14 by Asra.8746

[Khandarus.2738]

Ha.... You think think class is going to get fixes? The Devs just plug their ears when it comes to this class

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

5 hours ago, Asra.8746 said:

Fact of the matter is, regardless of how much censoring moderators do, it's been evident to any thief player that's been playing for years that the balance team has no clue what to do with thief...especially so because none of the team members actually play thief at any sort of relevant level, nor care about the class and its problems (bugs inclusive - it's why bugs from a decade ago still exist to-date), unless there's a massive uproar about them (and this does not happen with thief because there's only a few thief players in the game compared to the other classes).

I saw a post in Reddit yesterday that had a video from the new balance team from over a year ago regarding initiative trade off on Specter. Notice how since then, nothing has changed and in fact, initiative costs have only gone up. If you don't recall, initiative cost of Twilight Combo was also increased shortly before this. In case anyone forgot, they killed Sc/D in competitive mode by nerfing it on multiple levels: effectiveness AND initiative cost. It's like the team believes that Thieves should only be allowed to use 1-2 skill at most before becoming a sitting duck or desperately running away waiting for initiative (and funnily enough, the average player takes this as a form of losing to the thief - absolutely illogical); whereas other classes literally gets to rotato potato their skills with almost no downtime on your face.

So, it still surprises me to see some people still expecting anything good for thief from the balance team after over a decade of this nonsense, attempting to give feedback to the team, when they clearly just sweep it all under the rug. This will happen with axe too btw. Scepter bugs that were reported in both betas still exist to-date; and the same will happen with axe, where bugs will not be addressed for years (if at all).

There's negativity and there's drawing conclusions from historical performance based on data - this is the latter.

NB: I'm going to enjoy 2 ammunition Barrage on my Soulbeast. Also, GS is getting a massive buff in PvE cause Ranger was clearly really struggling with burst power dps. Meanwhile, sword thief is just sitting around.

Anet is failing thief

[Khandarus.2738]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Anet has failed thief

Fixed

[Batsu.3489]

Hi Sorry for my bad English. I send ticket to Developers they told me to open new topic or whatever.

"I have been noticing other classes as well. Strongly something hit to me. Thief is ultra weak in PVE. I have been watching other class how to hit to mobs. Clearly most of them doing 2-3 shot mean while as a thief dual pistol (most dealing damage) i had to use my unload skill 30 times. Willbender 2 hit damage and done, Guardian deals attacks 4-5 damage and done, Ranger and others almost same either. Shortbow damage is just a joke i dont even bother to mention it. Tbh i just bought first 3 expansion pack 2 week ago because i main thief. 9 years ago before i quit this game it was good and strong now i had to buy it because in PVP it is really trashed. I rarely see thief like 10 games at once. After i start to using Daredevil thief looks decent but yet i bought it because base game thief was overnerfed and i felt that pretty hard.

I would be happy if you guys do decent buffs again. Especially in WvW i have sniper rifle meanwhile Ranger has more than i sniper rifle."

 

This is what i sended them. Short of story even the expansion packs i bought doesn't save thief at all. The comments i read is interesting and what i feel about thief. I hope developers able to fix this.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:26 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

its a preview. they arent ready for thief updates quite yet and we dont know if this is everything

How many times have they showed a preview and then reverted after listening to us? Only once in my memory. And it was something innocuous 

[Gheed.7284]

Every time ArenaNet touches initiative costs I am convinced they just assume that Shadow's Rejuvenation, Preparedness, and/or Upper Hand are baseline.

Please delete those traits like all other weapon skill cooldown reduction traits and let initiative costs be reasonable again.

Edited January 15 by Gheed.7284

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

1 hour ago, Gheed.7284 said:

Every time ArenaNet touches initiative costs I am convinced they just assume that Shadow's Rejuvenation, Preparedness, and/or Upper Hand are baseline.

Please delete those traits like all other weapon skill cooldown reduction traits and let initiative costs be reasonable again.

I agree and in my opinion the initiative gain from trickery should be baseline and the trait that gives more initiative in trickery should be reworked. That way there is more build diversity. In essence making the +3 initiative gain baseline would follow the goal of the balance document.

Quote

Goals

Fundamentally, our goal is to ensure that the moment-to-moment gameplay in Guild Wars 2 is enjoyable for as many players as possible. To that end, we want to capitalize on the depth of the combat system to build a fluid and fast-paced combat experience that allows players to express their mastery of mechanics. We also want to create a substantial number of viable build options and allow for a broad set of combat strategies in order to enable a wide range of playstyles.

 

 

[kash.9213]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:27 AM, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

I agree and in my opinion the initiative gain from trickery should be baseline and the trait that gives more initiative in trickery should be reworked. That way there is more build diversity. In essence making the +3 initiative gain baseline would follow the goal of the balance document.

 

 

The resource budgeting to output makes it pretty clear where we stack up with everyone when I'm looking like a little kid swiping at a bully when it's time to take out siege equipment while one or two others show up suddenly and disintegrate it in a few of seconds. Of course, what a lot of what people see from thieves in WvW at least is going to be a quick gimmick sequence or disengage to create distance. I could probably build to cut up that siege faster but then a gust of wind could put me into Down State. 

Edited January 16 by kash.9213

[Burial.1958]

All i see is that Anet do not care about this class in this hilarious Preview. 

[thief.7429]

this is why i switched over to revenant, been dealing with this trash since HoT release

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

part of me wants to get a Peaceful mob of thief mains protesting in ninja gear outside their office in washington...

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

I haven't touched this game in two years because I grew sick and tired at the complete and utter ineptitude of the Balance Team. It's disheartening to return two years later and see that ArenaNet's balance team is still hilariously inept. Truly the worst balance team I've ever seen in any game, ever. I guess I'll extend my absence for another two years. Who knows, maybe by then, ArenaNet will hire someone who actually knows what they're doing...HA, like that'll ever happen. 

[killforbeers.7534]

I saw this type of behavior with WarHammer Onlne my 1st favorite PVP MMO were developers just maintained a bias balance and lost alot of players. When they tried to get them back by starting to really fix the issues - it was just too late especially when RIFT and AION were launched. I just hope it does not happen here as well if this keeps up because as soon as another similar MMO comes alone this may also happen. ANET really should have research done on how/why MMOs start to fail and use that a lesson learned. Hell many Youtube vids out there already done this so they can just google it. Just balance all classes fairly and let the player's skill shine.

[Carnifex.3275]

Thief gathering at anets HQ when?  

[TheThief.8475]

9 hours ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

Thief gathering at anets HQ when?  

They are already there but we can't see them because they are in Stealth

[kash.9213]

13 hours ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

I saw this type of behavior with WarHammer Onlne my 1st favorite PVP MMO were developers just maintained a bias balance and lost alot of players. When they tried to get them back by starting to really fix the issues - it was just too late especially when RIFT and AION were launched. I just hope it does not happen here as well if this keeps up because as soon as another similar MMO comes alone this may also happen. ANET really should have research done on how/why MMOs start to fail and use that a lesson learned. Hell many Youtube vids out there already done this so they can just google it. Just balance all classes fairly and let the player's skill shine.

The rest of the game was kind of mid, but Rift combat, skill trees, and builds were hard to pull away from back then. GW2 combat won out because the rest of the game is kind of sustainable and the animation combos can be a little more creative. I remember that time being a real scramble for my guild trying to decide which game to land on, but every game in that span of a few years, including GW2 were and/or are perpetually shaky or dragging in one or two developmental aspects and that stretch of time is kind of a hefty budget mmo graveyard. 

[killforbeers.7534]

4 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

The rest of the game was kind of mid, but Rift combat, skill trees, and builds were hard to pull away from back then. GW2 combat won out because the rest of the game is kind of sustainable and the animation combos can be a little more creative. I remember that time being a real scramble for my guild trying to decide which game to land on, but every game in that span of a few years, including GW2 were and/or are perpetually shaky or dragging in one or two developmental aspects and that stretch of time is kind of a hefty budget mmo graveyard. 

Sorry for the long reply as the few times I have posted it feels any feedback to ANET is just a waste especially when known bugs/issues for years not yet fixed and these crazy nerf bat swings still happens instead of a non-bias balancing and provide feedback why certain nerfs were actioned - their actions is just rise and repeat.

Yes during that time I remember my guild leaders and other players had the same issue. I had joined RUIN at that time and followed them in a few other games and even to GW2. However, that guild left GW2 after a few years of posting the issues and no fixes were done during that time. Mind you some issues were a couple of years old at that time. I think they are back at WoW, Starwars Old Republic and a few other games. I think they are keeping an eye on Ashes of Creation. For me I love GW2 and I really hope ANET get their act together and really review the feedbacks good/bad and get thier act together before NCSoft steps back in and clean house like last time.

Right now if there was a post to list all known issues with a date stamp when it was discovered and not yet fixed then it would be along list.

ANET does not have to accept all the possible solutions the community provides but at least fix the old known issues and start ti provide a non-bias balance ptches to all the classes. This is one of the reasons why their dream of making their PVP an eSport quickly went down the toliet.

Do not know if many will wait for another 2yrs by then maybe another MMO may take its place and ANET will have a really hard time to keep their players and end up like WarHammer Online...

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

honestly I'm waiting for the riot or ashes of creation to see what their rogue playing like. playing thief is miserable now my main is a thief i don't use it for any content anymore when i can play something else and be more useful.