Untamed questions

[Freedoms.2635]

Good day, 

 

I've started playing untamed because I enjoy hammer builds and noticed there is something odd with it or at least feels very odd. 

While the hammer skills are quick and plays like a spammy class it get no cooldown reductions I heard it used too, it doesn't have access to alacrity but it has quickness but not in WvW.  Why was these things cut? 

The elite skill forests fortifications has a 90 second cooldown with a 1 second cast time in WvW this feels straight up awful. It's not like guardian where they just can become immune to everything. 

It's a damage reduction cooldown basically a holy schnitzel button but why the cast time? 

The quickness uptime from a newb stand point seems like I need to run 90% or higher boon duration so like all diviners with a zerker /assassin weapon. 

Could we get some sort of weapon skill cooldown reduction for hammer or overall trait? 

[Zyreva.1078]

51 minutes ago, Freedoms.2635 said:

While the hammer skills are quick and plays like a spammy class it get no cooldown reductions I heard it used too, it doesn't have access to alacrity but it has quickness but not in WvW.  Why was these things cut?

Untamed used to have a trait that would reduce all cds when hitting a target with cc. Got first nerfed and then removed completely, because anet didn't know how to balance it and because they wanted to streamline classes, so all could provide alac and quickness.

No quickness in PvP/WvW is probably, because anet thought it would be op. Meanwhile certain other spec is allowed to passively fart perma aoe quickness like it's nothing. Well, if only untamed was allowed to keep fury instead, but no, that got removed because of spvp and the synergy with marksmanship.

51 minutes ago, Freedoms.2635 said:

The elite skill forests fortifications has a 90 second cooldown with a 1 second cast time in WvW this feels straight up awful. It's not like guardian where they just can become immune to everything. 

It's a damage reduction cooldown basically a holy schnitzel button but why the cast time?

Most untamed skills are a worse version of some other skill.  Forests Fortification is a worse version of dolyak stance, so perfectly in line with the rest.

51 minutes ago, Freedoms.2635 said:

The quickness uptime from a newb stand point seems like I need to run 90% or higher boon duration so like all diviners with a zerker /assassin weapon.

In PvE you don't need much boon duration for a quick dps build (SC suggest full zerk with firework rune).

In PvP/WvW you don't gain much quickness, so not worth building arround. But if you still want to focus on boons (which can be good, because boons = op), use cele gear and/or runes such as firework or leadership to boost boons. Avoid (too much) diviner's gear because it trades too many important other stats for that big concentration.

51 minutes ago, Freedoms.2635 said:

Could we get some sort of weapon skill cooldown reduction for hammer or overall trait? 

The devs said at some point that they want to get rid of cd reduction traits alltogether and already started removing some. Weapon traits still remain for now, but it's unlikely that they add new ones.

Edited January 22 by Zyreva.1078

[Aaron Forestman.4758]

Losing Fervent Force, which used to reduce the cooldown of all of our skills by 4 seconds every time we hit with a CC, took away one of the few remaining highly technical builds in this game. Unfortunately, many people who weren't capable or too lazy to learn turned to automating this detailed build to make up for their shortcomings, earning a build that wasn't outshining other dps builds a nerf.

Hammer is a capable weapon, but has to be paired with another weapon set to compete with other builds. Like most builds in the game: swap to the hammer, do what you can in 10-15 seconds, then swap back to your other set to do the same. Rinse and repeat.

[frazazel.7501]

Untamed doesn't need +90% boon duration for perma quickness uptime, because the trait gives you an unleashed ambush again right after weapons swap. That means you do

unleash ranger -> ambush -> weapon swap -> ambush -> wait for 9s CD on ambush -> repeat

This gives you two unleashed ambushes every ~12 seconds, which +20% boon duration will cover. In practice, you take a bit more to cover errors/delays. The popular build runs +40% boon duration.

Hammer cooldowns don't feel too bad to me. Hammer attacks are slow enough (even with quickness), that they take a good amount of time while you're waiting for the unleashed ambush cooldown that you don't spend a lot of time spamming autoattacks. Remember that you should be swapping weapons as often as possible if you're running Let Loose for quickness, giving your hammer skills time to finish cooling down while you're using your other weapon set.

I agree that Forest's Fortification feels bad to use. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to best use the skill yet. It can get interrupted, and it has a long cooldown, especially if you use it as a defensive tool to escape. It's best used at the start of an engagement, rather than as a reaction, so that it's up while you're attacking, so you get the most value out of its cooldown reduction feature.

[aymnad.9023]

I disagree with other comments about untamed elite. It is not just a defensive tool. It is also a great for offense. You cannot be stopped (stab), deal full damage (resistance) and chase easily (superspeed) which helps to land a burst. It is not uncommon to have >10s cd reduction in PvP (usually with lb because it has a lot of quick hits) or way more if you are in PvE. Also most elites in the game have a 1s cast time.

For a quickness build you need to get used to trigger ambush twice on a weapon, First just when you weapon swap (thanks to Let Loose) and then before swapping. With only your armor in diviner (if power) or ritualist (if condi) you can maintain a decent uptime. You can get more if you feel like you struggle but in general it is not needed. You need to have an idea of when bosses start their spread mechanics if you want to maximize your uptime and weapon swap at the correct timing (when your teammates are around).

Edited January 22 by aymnad.9023

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I disagree with other comments about untamed elite. It is not just a defensive tool. It is also a great for offense. You cannot be stopped (stab), deal full damage (resistance) and chase easily (superspeed) which helps to land a burst. It is not uncommon to have >10s cd reduction in PvP (usually with lb because it has a lot of quick hits) or way more if you are in PvE. Also most elites in the game have a 1s cast time.

Yeah, it's for offense, same as RaO / SoTP. 

Think it confuses people as FF specifically masks this fact by giving you all defensive boons, so natural thought is 'run'.  When that's the worst way to use it as you stuck with a 90s cd instead of 50-60 if you use it offensively and manage to hit things.  

As for lack of quick in competitive, guessing because it would make power untamed 'broken' again in the right hands. 

Power untamed is odd in that it's good enough right now to play in higher rankings with and buffing quickness back would have burst akin to the old telemaul.  For me personally though, untamed is technical enough where most people won't play it in competitive as its not really worth the effort.  Just a weird spot all around.  

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

No quickness in PvP/WvW is probably, because anet thought it would be op. Meanwhile certain other spec is allowed to passively fart perma aoe quickness like it's nothing. Well, if only untamed was allowed to keep fury instead, but no, that got removed because of spvp and the synergy with marksmanship.

Arg I already made the thread but they need to split some of the Untamed's skills between sPvP and WvW. I don't see the issue with Ambushs providing aoe quickness in WvW seems like a good use for the Staff Ambush since right now it is pretty useless. 

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, frazazel.7501 said:

I agree that Forest's Fortification feels bad to use. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to best use the skill yet. It can get interrupted, and it has a long cooldown, especially if you use it as a defensive tool to escape. It's best used at the start of an engagement, rather than as a reaction, so that it's up while you're attacking, so you get the most value out of its cooldown reduction feature.

They really just need to lower the 90 second cooldown, it would be better at 60. It still wouldn't be used that often in PvE and in PvP you only have 6 seconds to try reduce the cooldown further. 

It would make some pretty unique Hammer Ambush or Longbow Barrage builds.

Edited January 23 by Mell.4873

[frazazel.7501]

Maybe use it in combination with a Relic that procs on elite skill use, and scales with that elite's cooldown? Then you spam a whole bunch of attack skills, and you get your elite back up again pretty soon, but you still got the stronger relic effect.

[DarkFlopy.8197]

16 hours ago, frazazel.7501 said:

Maybe use it in combination with a Relic that procs on elite skill use, and scales with that elite's cooldown? Then you spam a whole bunch of attack skills, and you get your elite back up again pretty soon, but you still got the stronger relic effect.

That's a good idea in theory but in practice for this specific elite it's not that great.

There are only 2 relics that scale with elite and they are:

1) Relic of the Sunless - that's a condi relic so if you are not condi it's a complete waste of relic.

2) Relic of the Zephyrite - that's a support one that provides protection and resolution, the elite already provides resolution and a 50% less damage buff therefore slapping protection on it is quite an overkill and again quite a waste of a relic.

Therefore I would not relay on a relic that is specific for the elite.

Edited January 24 by DarkFlopy.8197

[frazazel.7501]

Relic of the Pack gives party superspeed, and is getting fury/might added in a week. I'm hoping that it gives enough fury/might to be worth considering (esp. since this already gives superspeed, and it doesn't stack duration above 10s).

[Freedoms.2635]

now Let Loose, has a 9 second CD. how do you up keep quickness with base being 5 seconds? 

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Freedoms.2635 said:

now Let Loose, has a 9 second CD. how do you up keep quickness with base being 5 seconds? 

You can use double ambush (ambush - weapon swap - ambush) for 10 s of quickness every 9 seconds.