March 19 balance Update Preview

[Eddie.9143]

• Arcane Wave: This skill now leaps to the targeted area before dealing damage and now dazes enemies that it strikes. Reduced the range from 900 to 600. Reduced the attack radius from 360 to 240. Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1.7 in PvP and WvW. Reduced the ammunition recharge time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvE only.
  
  lmaoo...lightning rod is going to be disgusting, this has charges!?

some other crazy ones

 

• Dune Cloak: This trait has been reworked. Gain Mirage Cloak when you shatter 2 or more clones.
• Master Fencer: This trait now gives increased personal fury duration.
• Glacial Heart: This trait no longer chills and damages enemies that you disable and instead heals the user when disabling, immobilizing, or chilling an enemy.
• Healing Spring: Reduced the duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds and reduced the pulse interval from 2 seconds to 1 second. Reduced the number of conditions cleansed per pulse from 2 to 1 in WvW and PvP.

 

and scourge is also dead

• Desert Empowerment: This trait now grants vigor instead of alacrity in PvP and WvW.

Edited February 16 by Eddie.9143

[FOcast.3691]

Dune Cloak was useful and interesting, and then gets reduced to something unimaginative: more Mirage dodge spam. Very disappointed in this pointless rework.

Glacial Heart too. Guard needed more self healing just as much as Mirage needed more dodge; not at all. Chill was very useful.

Both of these changes are unimaginative and uninspiring.

Edited February 17 by FOcast.3691

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Of course the ele mains are quiet on this one 😂.

[Shagie.7612]

idk about this Renegade rework

ghosts finally being unkillable is cool, but it loses the daze spam, arguably the strongest part of the entire spec, in favor of a one and done daze. it loses the unique -50% condition damage on its heal when it's an elite that has literally no condition removal and by design is meant to just facetank through them (Wrought-Iron Will, Righteous Rebel, Breakrazor's Bastion) with damage reduction. the 40 vuln stacks go down to 11

Razorclaw also becomes an ability that now only works if both the target and the player are stacked, as you lose either the buff or the initial attack depending on placement

Citadel Bombardment can still whiff half its missles even on a downed body, most of the traits are just weak, all of the energy costs are still incredibly high, and it's still extremely vulnerable to conditions, cc, and just getting w keyed in general

maybe it'll end up stronger, but it'll probably be because they just finally bumped numbers until it got to that point

lastly, i think both the devs and players are wrong about how and why it existed in an unhealthy state for competitive play. the two biggest reasons for that are literally not in the game anymore, that being:
damage reduction math was changed, you can't stack things like vengeful hammers, great dwarf and protection for anywhere near the same values
soulcleave gained a 1s ICD

visual clutter, counterplay, too much sustain, in a post-EoD game? c'mon lol

anyways everyone hates the spec no matter what so doesn't really matter

Edited February 17 by Shagie.7612

[Bladestrom.6425]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course the ele mains are quiet on this one 😂.

lol ele is still a car crash, cmc stroking melee builds yet again and failing to understand the profession does not help the diversity of the class.

[Grimjack.8130]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course the ele mains are quiet on this one 😂.

yeah maybe cause they killed fa weaver? lol

[Eddie.9143]

2 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

yeah maybe cause they killed fa weaver? lol

How? If anything it'll be better, and now core sword lightning rod will be good

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

How could you forget the best mesmer change?!

Desperate Decoy: This trait has been reworked. Gain vigor when you evade an attack.

Power mirage go BRRRR

 

[Eddie.9143]

1 hour ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

How could you forget the best mesmer change?!

Desperate Decoy: This trait has been reworked. Gain vigor when you evade an attack.

Power mirage go BRRRR

 

That with dune cloak and relic of evasion...jebus.

[Bladestrom.6425]

14 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

How? If anything it'll be better, and now core sword lightning rod will be good

aka niche melee build while everything else rots.

[Eddie.9143]

8 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

aka niche melee build while everything else rots.

lmaooo holy dramatic! eles are the biggest babies in the entire game. wahwah we got buffs!

[Flowki.7194]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:25 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

idk about this Renegade rework

ghosts finally being unkillable is cool, but it loses the daze spam, arguably the strongest part of the entire spec, in favor of a one and done daze. it loses the unique -50% condition damage on its heal when it's an elite that has literally no condition removal and by design is meant to just facetank through them (Wrought-Iron Will, Righteous Rebel, Breakrazor's Bastion) with damage reduction. the 40 vuln stacks go down to 11

Razorclaw also becomes an ability that now only works if both the target and the player are stacked, as you lose either the buff or the initial attack depending on placement

Citadel Bombardment can still whiff half its missles even on a downed body, most of the traits are just weak, all of the energy costs are still incredibly high, and it's still extremely vulnerable to conditions, cc, and just getting w keyed in general

maybe it'll end up stronger, but it'll probably be because they just finally bumped numbers until it got to that point

lastly, i think both the devs and players are wrong about how and why it existed in an unhealthy state for competitive play. the two biggest reasons for that are literally not in the game anymore, that being:
damage reduction math was changed, you can't stack things like vengeful hammers, great dwarf and protection for anywhere near the same values
soulcleave gained a 1s ICD

visual clutter, counterplay, too much sustain, in a post-EoD game? c'mon lol

anyways everyone hates the spec no matter what so doesn't really matter

Im still looking at trying some hybrid scepter/x power support builds, but that -condi/vuln has probably killed them. Ren traits are an absolute mess.. bad for power, bad for condi, and some random support traits (surely this is the one spec that should get some superspeed). Does nothing good enough to justify runing ren over another core line/specialisation, apart from stacking vuln, which has now been nerfed hard. Its not like its hard to step out of the AOE field, such a needless nerf. The daze on the other hand I agree with being nerfed, daze spam is too easy for its impact, hope power mirage gets the same treatment.

 

 

Edited February 19 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The daze on the other hand I agree with being nerfed, daze spam is too easy for its impact

walk out of it, lol, not like it can follow you
it's the only tool the legend has to make breathing room, a tool to say "don't come near me" on an incredibly squishy spec, except it's easily interruptible or killable so it's not even very effective at that

say what you and everyone else actually mean:
you think it's annoying

[Grimjack.8130]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:59 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

How? If anything it'll be better, and now core sword lightning rod will be good

ok bud

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

ok bud

skill issue

[Gotejjeken.1267]

22 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

aka niche melee build while everything else rots.

 

8 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

ok bud

 

[Flowki.7194]

17 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

walk out of it, lol, not like it can follow you
it's the only tool the legend has to make breathing room, a tool to say "don't come near me" on an incredibly squishy spec, except it's easily interruptible or killable so it's not even very effective at that

say what you and everyone else actually mean:
you think it's annoying

Daze spam is broken, just like CC spam is broken.. forgive me for not acclimatising to that fact, and wrongfully catigorising it as just "annoying". I can't take you serious when you advocate for a spec to reliably hinge on the spamming of such a powerful mechanic. "Oh you want to get into melee range with me?.. here.. eat my AOE daze spam". The same bs low skill area denial that makes scourge/DH kitten specs.

 

Edited February 19 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

59 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Daze spam is broken, just like CC spam is broken.. forgive me for not acclimatising to that fact, and wrongfully catigorising it as just "annoying". I can't take you serious when you advocate for a spec to reliably hinge on the spamming of such a powerful mechanic. "Oh you want to get into melee range with me?.. here.. eat my AOE daze spam". The same bs low skill area denial that makes scourge/DH kitten specs.

 

Now they can balance this skill better without making it too toxic because of daze spam y

[Mini Crinny.6190]

I predict Arcane wave being changed after two weeks of release to something utterly dead

Edited February 19 by Mini Crinny.6190

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Now they can balance this skill better without making it too toxic because of daze spam y

Exactly, there are times people will not be able to just "walk out" of the aoe range. At-least with vuln stacks, it can be cleansed, ignored with resistance, and doesnt stop you blocking etc, it still has multiple counter plays, which makes the nerf quite rediculous.

[Kuya.6495]

On 2/18/2024 at 2:57 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

lmaooo holy dramatic! eles are the biggest babies in the entire game. wahwah we got buffs!

Easily. This game's biggest drama queens

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Exactly, there are times people will not be able to just "walk out" of the aoe range. At-least with vuln stacks, it can be cleansed, ignored with resistance, and doesnt stop you blocking etc, it still has multiple counter plays, which makes the nerf quite rediculous.

nerf on Darkrazor's Daring cc? or do you mean now Icerazor's Ire with the vulnerability stacks?

Because it may look like a nerf sorta, but the combos + what each one does goes well together !

 

[Shagie.7612]

5 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The same bs low skill area denial that makes scourge/DH kitten specs.

It's a 6s duration/12s CD on an interruptible and killable ghost, that's also incredibly expensive and the stunbreak on arguably the squishiest and lowest sustain elite in the game. It's also the only actual aoe ghost. Icerazor only hits one target at a time, Razorclaw is just a buff, and Soulcleave with its ICD can only proc one target per interval.

You're comparing it to Scourge, which has three shades that last 8s/8s recharge, and pulses around both themselves and the shades, and DH traps that last until they're triggered.

They're not even close. Area denial isn't inherently a bad mechanic, but Renegade isn't and has never been a strong area denial spec.

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Now they can balance this skill better without making it too toxic because of daze spam y

It's not nearly as toxic as everyone's convinced themselves. In fact, what everyone considers toxic about Renegade was and has always been Jalis/Shiro builds. They rebuffed and are allowing things that are infinitely worse than any current Kalla summon, and have no problem with them existing.

Nobody decent's gonna get hit by it.

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Exactly, there are times people will not be able to just "walk out" of the aoe range.

Then you got caught and deserve to suffer in the same way you would with anyone else's high risk plays?

Go play Kalla, condi or power because it doesn't matter, see how well your area denial works. How powerful and broken your daze spam is. It's almost as do-nothing as the rev builds you play, it's right up your alley.

[Flowki.7194]

17 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

nerf on Darkrazor's Daring cc? or do you mean now Icerazor's Ire with the vulnerability stacks?

Because it may look like a nerf sorta, but the combos + what each one does goes well together !

 

Daze nerf is good, vuln nerf was needless. I also don't like the fact they changed axe 4 to torment ;/.. a little extra damage was not really worth the survival hit from losing the slow, they could have just put some torment on axe 5. Its not like people are using it even after its "buff".. so they killed it for me, with no slow.

[Flowki.7194]

21 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It's a 6s duration/12s CD on an interruptible and killable ghost, that's also incredibly expensive and the stunbreak on arguably the squishiest and lowest sustain elite in the game. It's also the only actual aoe ghost. Icerazor only hits one target at a time, Razorclaw is just a buff, and Soulcleave with its ICD can only proc one target per interval.

You're comparing it to Scourge, which has three shades that last 8s/8s recharge, and pulses around both themselves and the shades, and DH traps that last until they're triggered.

They're not even close. Area denial isn't inherently a bad mechanic, but Renegade isn't and has never been a strong area denial spec.

It's not nearly as toxic as everyone's convinced themselves. In fact, what everyone considers toxic about Renegade was and has always been Jalis/Shiro builds. They rebuffed and are allowing things that are infinitely worse than any current Kalla summon, and have no problem with them existing.

Nobody decent's gonna get hit by it.

Then you got caught and deserve to suffer in the same way you would with anyone else's high risk plays?

Go play Kalla, condi or power because it doesn't matter, see how well your area denial works. How powerful and broken your daze spam is. It's almost as do-nothing as the rev builds you play, it's right up your alley.

Toxic mechanics are toxic mechanics mate. Daze spam is toxic, I don't care if there are worse examples in the game. You say nobody decent is going to get hit by it (I disagree) so what are you even arguing for? By your own admition, the daze spam will just be a "noob stomper" at best, or just another toxic AOE to throw into group fights to ensure no player with half a brain is going to play anything other than sides.

 

There is nothing wrong with area denial if it actually takes some effort, which pretty much none of the current games area denial does. Ren legends no exception to that, its all set and forget, be it single or multi target. Now thats the game, sure I'd rather see ren usefull than useless.. but not usefull by depending on toxic kitten like daze spam. It was already "enough" that you could drop a set and forget damage+vulnerability bot. Again, how do you buff such mechanics while not making them kitten to fight, like DH. Instead of daze spam, an immob/cripple would be better, as to actually have some counter play other than "garunteed cheap area denial". But then, Anet have laced the game full of anti immob/cripple to deal with immob/cripple spam. So much bs in this game its unreal, cheap counter after cheap counter, rather than toning down the absolute spam of powerful mechanics, so that they actually have to be used sparingly, and coordinated.  

Edited February 20 by Flowki.7194