March 19 balance Update Preview

[Shagie.7612]

5 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Toxic mechanics are toxic mechanics mate. Daze spam is toxic, I don't care if there are worse examples in the game. You say nobody decent is going to get hit by it (I disagree) so what are you even arguing for?

Right, but current Kalla isn't toxic. It's annoying in a 1v1 situation. That's it. That's all it's ever been.
If you made the current ghosts unkillable it still wouldn't be that strong. It'd slightly delay how long it takes until you can w key down the renegade. More annoying, not significantly stronger.

I don't think you actually know anything about the legend beyond what you've already convinced yourself of. Same as just about everyone else.

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Right, but current Kalla isn't toxic. It's annoying in a 1v1 situation. That's it. That's all it's ever been.
If you made the current ghosts unkillable it still wouldn't be that strong. It'd slightly delay how long it takes until you can w key down the renegade. More annoying, not significantly stronger.

I don't think you actually know anything about the legend beyond what you've already convinced yourself of. Same as just about everyone else.

I played ren for a while, power, condi, and support. It was my first and favourite rev spec. I've played it for group and side, I know the frustrations "they just walk out of it" or "dead/interupted" thanks to the cast times. At the same time, the scepter might allow a support or even side node playstyle, where shielding can somewhat bridge the defensive gap that ren clearly lacks when fights are on the move. Im not too hopeful, but it might work out that way.  

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It's a 6s duration/12s CD on an interruptible and killable ghost, that's also incredibly expensive and the stunbreak on arguably the squishiest and lowest sustain elite in the game. It's also the only actual aoe ghost. Icerazor only hits one target at a time, Razorclaw is just a buff, and Soulcleave with its ICD can only proc one target per interval.

You're comparing it to Scourge, which has three shades that last 8s/8s recharge, and pulses around both themselves and the shades, and DH traps that last until they're triggered.

They're not even close. Area denial isn't inherently a bad mechanic, but Renegade isn't and has never been a strong area denial spec.

It's not nearly as toxic as everyone's convinced themselves. In fact, what everyone considers toxic about Renegade was and has always been Jalis/Shiro builds. They rebuffed and are allowing things that are infinitely worse than any current Kalla summon, and have no problem with them existing.

Nobody decent's gonna get hit by it.

Then you got caught and deserve to suffer in the same way you would with anyone else's high risk plays?

Go play Kalla, condi or power because it doesn't matter, see how well your area denial works. How powerful and broken your daze spam is. It's almost as do-nothing as the rev builds you play, it's right up your alley.

 Darkrazor's Daring cc/damage hits 5 targets in the area each 1 second currently. Atm spirits are still targetable and can be interupted if they aren't targetable it will be more annoying.

But then still it's just annoying and not yet that good, so it still would need a buff. If they would buff it, it will become too strong too easy bc of spammable dazes.

 

So the current design they have now with 2 second daze is fine. You can better get other combo with it off because it's also longer duration but not too much reapplied. It's just enough to create openings/pressure better.

It also seems Icerazor's Ire will be more aoe hitting more targets, which was needed. Atleast this part looked like it, we have to see.

The new design is better to balance/ more healthy. The old design is either too strong or too weak for how passive it can be played if too strong long uptime aoe or too weak.

You will very likely see, dw 19th march

[Shagie.7612]

26 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Darkrazor's Daring cc/damage hits 5 targets in the area each 1 second currently.

Why are you explaining this to me? Yes, that is quite literally what I said.
They're a quarter of a second, not 1s each.

48 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

It also seems Icerazor's Ire will be more aoe hitting more targets, which was needed. Atleast this part looked like it, we have to see.

The wording on Icerazor hasn't changed. The tooltip makes no mention of number of targets unlike all the others. It just says it hits 3 times. It might, but you can't say whether or not that's true from the available video.

37 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

The new design is better to balance/ more healthy. The old design is either too strong or too weak for how passive it can be played if too strong long uptime aoe or too weak.

What you're saying is quite literally also just as true for one and done burst effects. If you dodge it, which is incredibly easy to do since they're extremely telegraphed and flashy, way more so the equivalent skill types (ranger spirits), the renegade is done and now you turn it into a puddle on the ground, just like you do now. If you get hit, the tuning is going to have to be so strong that you lose.

In the meantime, they've done nothing about cooldowns, costs, traits, or citadel orders, and you lose your best tools to gain what, 1500 barrier? An immobilize? Protection and Resolution are things that the elite already has good access to. Saying "now you can take something else" is meaningless when those other traits all suck.

You're right, it'll probably be stronger. Because it's the first time they've actually done anything to it in PvP since 2018, not because it's a better design. It's just a different one, equally as exploitable, equally as annoying just in a different way, they just finally changed some numbers on it.

[arazoth.7290]

7 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Why are you explaining this to me? Yes, that is quite literally what I said.
They're a quarter of a second, not 1s each.

 

Oh nvm, it was late and I read the soulcleave part as that. and yes it hits each 1 second, didn't said how long it cc'd just when pulses happened.

And well if Icerazor's Ire still isn't 5 targets hitting at once, then I would like to make enough awareness this should happen... It should be a nice aoe skill hitting 5 enemies at the same time too.

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Oh nvm, it was late and I read the soulcleave part as that. and yes it hits each 1 second, didn't said how long it cc'd just when pulses happened.

And well if Icerazor's Ire still isn't 5 targets hitting at once, then I would like to make enough awareness this should happen... It should be a nice aoe skill hitting 5 enemies at the same time too.

Yeah but that would most certainly come with a removal of vuln, which would then destroy condi builds. You can't have high damage x5 +vuln AOE, thats op AF.  If they lower the power co instead, then it would nerf side node power 1v1 potential. I personally think it should remain single target, track your current target, and apply high vuln, so that it is usable in group/1v1 and across power/condi. Versatility needs to be a strong factor in balance, or else the specs/game will polersise into 1 playstyle, and the fotm within that playstyle... 5 most used specs out of 100+.

Edited February 20 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

7 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Yeah but that would most certainly come with a removal of vuln, which would then destroy condi builds. You can't have high damage x5 +vuln AOE, thats op AF.  If they lower the power co instead, then it would nerf side node power 1v1 potential. I personally think it should remain single target, track your current target, and apply high vuln, so that it is usable in group/1v1 and across power/condi. Versatility needs to be a strong factor in balance, or else the specs/game will polersise into 1 playstyle, and the fotm within that playstyle... 5 most used specs out of 100+.

Scrapper does it worse, this would still be the milder version. And we have learned to deal with scrapper bursts, so this wouldn't be too op

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Scrapper does it worse, this would still be the milder version. And we have learned to deal with scrapper bursts, so this wouldn't be too op

Well, thats GW2 I guess, everybody is acclimatized to the spam.

[Khalisto.5780]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:41 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

and scourge is also dead

god bless

[arazoth.7290]

8 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Well, thats GW2 I guess, everybody is acclimatized to the spam.

What makes something spam? Making it aoe or single target or lot of repeative attacks after each other for pretty long time?

Because on any class/build you can keep doing that, just others are also faster to make it more obvious.

The only real difference that can matter is too oppressive. And to come to the point, making this specific ability 5 targets aoe pulsing on each of them at same time.

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

What makes something spam? Making it aoe or single target or lot of repeative attacks after each other for pretty long time?

Because on any class/build you can keep doing that, just others are also faster to make it more obvious.

The only real difference that can matter is too oppressive. And to come to the point, making this specific ability 5 targets aoe pulsing on each of them at same time.

Spam is basically anything that gives the same reward over and over. For power mirage, the daze spam requires chaining a few different abilitys, but it results in daze spam. Take DE for alternative example, all those other weapon skills but its essentially spamming rifle 2 > dodge 1 for damge (all thief specs pretty much boil to that kind of 2 button damage spam). SPB, and even my core rev build, spams CC, an unhealthy amount. But, front loaded block/stability spam counters it. Thats the game, you surely see it? spam of X to counter spam of Y. Ren daze application/uptime is an inferior virsion compared to mirage, but its still daze spam. There are some "ok" exceptions, like I said, vuln is most definately spammed by icerazor, but it can be negated with res, and it does not stop the player attacking to apply pressure, which could stop you attacking to take advantedge of the vuln. Daze spam just ends your ability to pressure, its SPB 2.0.

 

Take this for a better example of darkrazor mechanics; First intervel is a 1 seconds stability/daze (initial self defense), second pulse cripple, third pulse immob, and IF immobed, the 4th pulse adds a 2 second slow. There is now some counter play to that, dodge the immob. The application of the cripple warns you what phase is next, and the immob phase may even have a visual indication. Cripple/immob/slow are things that can be used to play defensively and offensively for the ren, but are not oppressive AF to the other player (like daze spam is). The enemy can outplay it with dodge, cleanse it, resistance, and not have to give up that space just becuase the ren pressed 1 button. Obviously the issue with this in current game is that cripple/immobs are so spammed, Anet have laced the game with too many easy counters (you play rev you know this with easy res access). If the legend were balanced in such ways, they could be changed to follow the target for their duration, becuase they are not oppressive. Imagine a daze spam bot following the target? clearly broken.

 

Thats where most of the issue are with GW2, just about every damage ability you can press, has a bolted on boon/debuff application from the ability or a trait, which leads to such massive spam of powerful abilitys (criple) which are then counter spamed nion out of existence (every ren movement ability > res).

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If the legend were balanced in such ways, they could be changed to follow the target for their duration, becuase they are not oppressive.

That's contradictory to the entire purpose of the legend.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/All_for_One
They're meant to be near you. They're your warband. Same with Razorclaw and Soulcleave.

On 2/19/2024 at 4:00 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

I don't think you actually know anything about the legend

[Sahne.6950]

On 2/17/2024 at 9:54 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course the ele mains are quiet on this one 😂.

we are not quiet on this one bro.

We quit.

Edited February 21 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

@Gotejjeken.1267   just for you bro ❤️

(TLDR at the bottom)

Watertrident buff:   Thats a big one.  Might push FA Cata back in the meta.   For Weaver its not thaaat huge, but it sure helps Cata/Core.

Various CD reduction on Sword:   you very very rarely swap into a attunement mix and they are not all ready.    Its nice to have, but wont rly change the big problem of Sword, being that it requires a stationary target to reall dish out DPS, which is just not good in a pvp setting.

Arcane buffs

Arcane brilliance: was dead content, might see some use after the buff. Wont be too crazy tho. Everyone will still run signet, cuz its just THAT good.

Arcane Wave:  This is prolly why people loose their mind. Currently no build is running this. In order to slot it, you either drop Earthshield, lightning flash, or your stunbreak.     All of those 3 are still arguably stronger.    On Freshair archetype its not feasible, cuz you need to teleport onto the enemy to deal damage, which a glasscannon thats main focus is on kiting... rarely wants to do. On Lightningrod archetypes, It might see play, but even then, that whole thing is still kind of held back by the enormous nerfs to lightningrod.  You might get memed by someone in the FFA, but i HIGHLY doubt this will shake up the Ele meta.  HIGHLY doubt it.

New arcane lightning trait:

Protection on brilliance might be cool. With durability rune, this could seriously add some protection time.  Might see play... but again.. Resto signet is just soooo good. I dont rly see people dropping it.

Immob on Arcane wave.  yeah...   will prolly be 1 second, how it was before. Then its rather underwhelming.  If its 2 seconds or more, this might actually fix the Problem of sword, because... there you have it... a immob, that also interrupts, which lets you get off your burst.  This can be good.

Arcane shield giving Stab.....   Yeah... thats just GOOD GOOD.   (remember that there is a trait the  grants arcane shield whenever you use a elite.  -> Extra Stabi on every elite useage ->    Stabi spam Cata might make a return

Arcane power... yeah... more dmg... we dont know the scaling, so this could be either very underwhelming, or pushing freshairs damage over the point you need to just straight up oneshot people.

Arcance blast blinds.... well.... You used to be able to do that before, but people rarely did it, cuz the immob was more valuuable.  Realistically speaking, they nerfed this skill, cuz you can no longer immob to kite and secure bursts. 

One with air:  Cool that they unnerfed it... but when using the only archetype that ever used that trait (Freshair) its still nerfed.... so it is good for every power ele build that runs air, but not Freshair..... which is none.     (it might spawn a new build, but i doubt it)

Aquamancers training / wash the pain away:    Buffs to Support tempest....   Who asked for that... but okey...

Bolstered elements, This is actually somewhat nice, cuz you will now have more prot uptime on Sword weaver, which ultimately translates to more damagereduction compared to some poopy 900 barrier.

 

 

TLDR:

Conclusion:  Overall those are noticeable buffs to pretty much every existing Ele build, except Hammer cata. 

I wont put my own thoughts here, wether its good or bad for the games health.   Thats up to you to figure out.   But i lean out the window and predict, that no new "GODMODE LIGHTNINGROD BUILD" will spawn from the Arcane Wave change.  

It might help Swordweaver get off its burst tho.

FA Cata might be back in the meta. But hopefully not as dominant as it once was, because Catas core, being staunched auras, is still gutted for pvp.

And that pretty much wraps it up.

Edited February 21 by Sahne.6950

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

. One with air:  Cool that they unnerfed it... but the only archetype that ever used that trait (Freshair) is still nerfed.... so it is good for every power ele build that runs air, but not Freshair..... which is none.     (it might spawn a new build, but i doubt it)

You're completely forgetting about lightning rod builds. Potentially LR builds will be really good with the new arcane dash daze skill aswell

[Eddie.9143]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267   just for you bro ❤️

(TLDR at the bottom)

Watertrident buff:   Thats a big one.  Might push FA Cata back in the meta.   For Weaver its not thaaat huge, but it sure helps Cata/Core.

Various CD reduction on Sword:   you very very rarely swap into a attunement mix and they are not all ready.    Its nice to have, but wont rly change the big problem of Sword, being that it requires a stationary target to reall dish out DPS, which is just not good in a pvp setting.

Arcane buffs

Arcane brilliance: was dead content, might see some use after the buff. Wont be too crazy tho. Everyone will still run signet, cuz its just THAT good.

Arcane Wave:  This is prolly why people loose their mind. Currently no build is running this. In order to slot it, you either drop Earthshield, lightning flash, or your stunbreak.     All of those 3 are still arguably stronger.    On Freshair archetype its not feasible, cuz you need to teleport onto the enemy to deal damage, which a glasscannon thats main focus is on kiting... rarely wants to do. On Lightningrod archetypes, It might see play, but even then, that whole thing is still kind of held back by the enormous nerfs to lightningrod.  You might get memed by someone in the FFA, but i HIGHLY doubt this will shake up the Ele meta.  HIGHLY doubt it.

New arcane lightning trait:

Protection on brilliance might be cool. With durability rune, this could seriously add some protection time.  Might see play... but again.. Resto signet is just soooo good. I dont rly see people dropping it.

Immob on Arcane wave.  yeah...   will prolly be 1 second, how it was before. Then its rather underwhelming.  If its 2 seconds or more, this might actually fix the Problem of sword, because... there you have it... a immob, that also interrupts, which lets you get off your burst.  This can be good.

Arcane shield giving Stab.....   Yeah... thats just GOOD GOOD.   (remember that there is a trait the  grants arcane shield whenever you use a elite.  -> Extra Stabi on every elite useage ->    Stabi spam Cata might make a return

Arcane power... yeah... more dmg... we dont know the scaling, so this could be either very underwhelming, or pushing freshairs damage over the point you need to just straight up oneshot people.

Arcance blast blinds.... well.... You used to be able to do that before, but people rarely did it, cuz the immob was more valuuable.  Realistically speaking, they nerfed this skill, cuz you can no longer immob to kite and secure bursts. 

One with air:  Cool that they unnerfed it... but when using the only archetype that ever used that trait (Freshair) its still nerfed.... so it is good for every power ele build that runs air, but not Freshair..... which is none.     (it might spawn a new build, but i doubt it)

Aquamancers training / wash the pain away:    Buffs to Support tempest....   Who asked for that... but okey...

Bolstered elements, This is actually somewhat nice, cuz you will now have more prot uptime on Sword weaver, which ultimately translates to more damagereduction compared to some poopy 900 barrier.

 

 

TLDR:

Conclusion:  Overall those are noticeable buffs to pretty much every existing Ele build, except Hammer cata. 

I wont put my own thoughts here, wether its good or bad for the games health.   Thats up to you to figure out.   But i lean out the window and predict, that no new "GODMODE LIGHTNINGROD BUILD" will spawn from the Arcane Wave change.  

It might help Swordweaver get off its burst tho.

FA Cata might be back in the meta. But hopefully not as dominant as it once was, because Catas core, being staunched auras, is still gutted for pvp.

And that pretty much wraps it up.

I promise u ppl gonna be running core sword lightning rod with arcane wave and demon queen or some bs next 

Edited February 21 by Eddie.9143

[Flowki.7194]

16 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

That's contradictory to the entire purpose of the legend.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/All_for_One
They're meant to be near you. They're your warband. Same with Razorclaw and Soulcleave.

So keep it as a static AOE, and stop complaining about people walking out of it?

[Stallic.2397]

LR with the new arcane wave works, but in PVP, the utilities are mostly stun breaks and either Earth Shield/Lightning flash, as Sahne mentioned. So I don't see where you can fit the utility in. 

The trait that boosts Arcane Utilities should also grant an additional charge to the skill. Maybe then it would be more useful to take. Before I took it just to reduce the cooldowns, but then that got nerfed.  

Edited February 21 by Stallic.2397

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

You're completely forgetting about lightning rod builds. Potentially LR builds will be really good with the new arcane dash daze skill aswell

You might get memed on in the FFA... agreed.

But i dont see the meta changing to LR.

Edited February 22 by Sahne.6950