"We don't know what we want" --CMC about Warrior

[someguy.4107]

If you don't have a plan for Warrior stop dumpstering interactions.

Wild Blow doing damage+daze means that follow up combos are no longer guaranteed. Wild Blow an engi with superspeed gives you 0 follow up, or any profession that applies cripple/chill while having swiftness. Have fun watching them outrun you. Nothing for Bladesworn either... After gutting every other playstyle that isn't spamming Unshakable Mountain; Bladesworn gets to stay on life-support indefinitely. Who cares that pistol 5 and Gunsaber 2 need you to lock down players for full damage while taking stun off Unyielding Dragon. Who cares that, that single change removes all CC trait synergies. CC Warrior also seems to be the only build the devs want for Warrior. Enhancing CC warrior didn't even help that build into unfavorable match ups. You still lose large portions of health or die to anyone with: 1 stack of Stability, blinds or blocks. Good thing Wild Blow is unblockable so you can land all that burst into passive blocks that don't go away with CC.

Improved GS 5 Rush animation. I doubt this claim due to 0 gameplay showing the "improvements" off. Rush has been broken since launch. The Staff beta event had Rush on Line Breaker, and instead of fixing that version of Rush devs made it ground targeted. How do you even improve something on a profession you no vision for? Sword 4 Impale is another good example. Instead of making the skill easier to land without needing target the enemy you landed Impale on to get Sword 4 Rip they just juiced the damage and give Rip boons. 0 QoL for the weapon but those numbers sure are big. Even increasing the power coefficient of Savage Leap is pointless because the skill never lands. I don't know if the hitbox lags behind you or its tiny. It feels like a 50/50 every time if Savage Leap will land. Warriors mostly use it as a movement tool, as it actually leaps your character and doesn't ride the ground.

Staff... I don't have hope for all the staff bugs being fixed. Line Breaker didn't even get fixed. It had two bugs at once (unable to re-target mid rush/ rush sometimes didn't go full range on allies), so just fundamentally change the targeting altogether. Bullet Catchers flip skill wouldn't work during other animation. Primal F1 was a horizontal only skill making it as reliable as Dragon Trigger - Force on hills. I don't remember all the bugs if they're more. Staff didn't give protection or stability during the beta either, so all the hopeful PvE heal warriors get to stay on our meme diet heal RP builds. I expect Staff on release will do good healing, but still be the massively bugged, Jank mess it was before.

The rest of the warrior notes are a nothing burger. All the number tweaks don't change, or add, any new ways to play the profession. They never did and never will.

[Jzaku.9765]

When does he ever say the quote in the title? I was paying close attention, and the closest he ever gets to saying something like this is when he mumbles "I don't know the word I'm looking for" and rephrases his sentence to get his meaning across. 

[Fueki.4753]

I wouldn't be surprised, if they actually know what they want for Warrior very well.

It might simply be that what they want is fundamentally different from the things that Warrior mains want.

Edited February 17 by Fueki.4753

[Myror.7521]

@Fueki.4753 i mean that they just buffed every CC skill warrior got on Berserker while get the words "we want to buff Power Warrior" should Just say it all ..... No? They want us to Play CC Spam builds but we do not at all want it cause it feels too spamy and unhealthy ^^

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

When does he ever say the quote in the title? I was paying close attention, and the closest he ever gets to saying something like this is when he mumbles "I don't know the word I'm looking for" and rephrases his sentence to get his meaning across. 

He said it, but was more in reference to Berserker.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Fueki.4753 i mean that they just buffed every CC skill warrior got on Berserker while get the words "we want to buff Power Warrior" should Just say it all ..... No? They want us to Play CC Spam builds but we do not at all want it cause it feels too spamy and unhealthy ^^

To be fair, our amount of CCs is one of Warrior's strong points. It should not be the only strong point though.

[Jzaku.9765]

43 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

He said it, but was more in reference to Berserker.

The closest I can find is when he says "I don't know if we have a specific vision" and continues to elaborate that they want to make it (Power Berserker) a supported archetype. 

To me, there's pros and cons to, just an example, "You will use exactly Mace/Shield Greatsword in the Power Berserker build" VS "We're just gonna keep buffing random Power Berserker related stuff until people find a way that makes it good".

 

Is there a specific timestamp you can direct me to? Because misquoting someone is IMO a hard sin. 

[Langeball.9351]

Misquoting is a great a sin as a moderator, auto or otherwise, changing your post without marking the post as edited. It's kitten, kitten and aids.

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To be fair, our amount of CCs is one of Warrior's strong points. It should not be the only strong point though.

But does it really count as a strong point, when we have too much of it? After all, too much of something can end up as a detriment.

1 hour ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The closest I can find is when he says "I don't know if we have a specific vision"

The "quoted part" in the tread title is basically that, just paraphrased.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

But does it really count as a strong point, when we have too much of it? After all, too much of something can end up as a detriment.

 

Only during the Hard CCs shall do no damage BS meta that CMC created. Still, so long has a hard follow up exists that is fine, but we both know the answer to that.

[someguy.4107]

I should have just posted the body as the title of the tread, because, it seems to me, 0 of you made it past the title. More interested in the semantics of the title then by the actual content of the tread. 

4 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Fueki.4753 i mean that they just buffed every CC skill warrior got on Berserker while get the words "we want to buff Power Warrior" should Just say it all ..... No? They want us to Play CC Spam builds but we do not at all want it cause it feels too spamy and unhealthy ^^

Warriors don't play CC builds because you are completely shut down by anything with: Passive blocks, aegis, blind, 1 stack of stability, teleports or professions with a solid defensive rotation. It's fun to play CC warrior in duels with friends that aren't running degenerate builds, or to teach new players about CC and when to break out. That's about it.

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To be fair, our amount of CCs is one of Warrior's strong points. It should not be the only strong point though.

You right on the money Lan :j nice to see you again. When CC is the main gateway to your damage you'll lose every trade in the game. Everyone else has passive damage that can be laced into defensive rotations giving the other player free damage on you while you throw your setup skills away.

 

[Myror.7521]

@someguy.4107 nah thats not entirely true. There are some builds around like for example Hammer/Dagger,Shield Spellbraker that performing very well. The only reason why no one playing them cause they are easy to kite while most Meta builds are just straight up kite Builds. (aside Druid .... this one get acutually countered by Hammer Spellbraker). 

But yea as said If you know how These CC Builds are to Play you can very easily playing around it ^^

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

1 hour ago, someguy.4107 said:

I should have just posted the body as the title of the tread, because, it seems to me, 0 of you made it past the title. More interested in the semantics of the title then by the actual content of the tread. 

 

Potential libel is more important and interesting than your screed.

~EpWa

[someguy.4107]

@Myror.7521 You're right :j I honestly needed to come back a bit more mellowed out. It's just absolutely frustrating when layers of decision making, and playstyle expression, are removed. I still play CC warrior builds in PvP because I find it fun to wait out stab until it's my turn to play the game. With the Wild Blow change, berserker has less in-spec CC setup/extension potential. Things are just whittled away bit by bit, and that makes me big sad.

[Underyill.6495]

They really need to Hire a Dev that's passionate about Warrior, and Thief + Engi for that matter too from what I've seen. Not one who's just "competent."

I've only been playing since EoD but already swapped War >> Engi >> Guard for most content because, while the first 2 may "technically work" they ways they do so are such a struggle / just not fun because ANet seems to have this habit of taking fun/functional pieces away from Bladesworn / Mech for example and not revising them till YEARS / patches later, of ever. And while this may make sense from a Development Budget / Cycle Perspective it alienates players like myself who have put in the time to learn those playstyles and who are just trying to enjoy the game.

 

Not the worst. But there's better ways to integrate on things "carefully" at a snail's pace while also preserving playstles. I enjoyed Daring Dragon for competitive and the auto mech Alacrity for PvE, now both are dead when they could have just nerfed the numbers/put the alacrity on a different trait, or not given the mech such a restrictive PvE alacrity leash that doesn't nuke your group's efficiency if the pet AI decides it just wants to bug out for no reason for example. 🙃

[Myror.7521]

@Underyill.6495 im kinda sure they just don't know what to do with bsw. Its eather broken or just death by its current design. (Cause its too easy to Play but in the other Hand you can't make the build better by just Player skill alone)

If they want to make bsw playable again you would need to complete rework the whole spec First cause otherwise it would be too unhealthy for the Game (cause as said too easy to Play means no challange and also no real fun in that sence)

Same goes for mechanist btw xd

[Aaron.1294]

@Myror.7521Removing unshakable mountain and rework for bsw heal would be a nice 1st step in the right direction.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

CmC said "I don't know if we have a specific vision" when asked if they had a plan for the direction they wanted to take power zerker.

That can easily be interpreted as not knowing what direction power zerker needs to go in the current scope of the meta, or not knowing what is changeable for power zerker to increase its viability.

The thread title is not ver batim what he said, but it very adequately captures the tone of his response, and coupled with the weird balance changes that have happened the past couple of patches for power zerker, it is easy to conclude what the title asserts.

Whatever semantics you want to argue, two things are clear:

Quote

 

Power zerker needs assistance in competitive

There is currently not a well defined, specific vision for making that happen,.

 

On that note, if the devs want some suggestions I'd be more than happy to necro my years of suggestions to page 1 again. Or you can just search my posts, its like 90% of what I've talked about for most of my time on these forums, including times when it performed well.

Edited February 20 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

CmC said "I don't know if we have a specific vision" when asked if they had a plan for the direction they wanted to take power zerker.

That can easily be interpreted as not knowing what direction power zerker needs to go in the current scope of the meta, or not knowing what is changeable for power zerker to increase its viability.

The thread title is not ver batim what he said, but it very adequately captures the tone of his response, and coupled with the weird balance changes that have happened the past couple of patches for power zerker, it is easy to conclude what the title asserts.

Whatever semantics you want to argue, two things are clear:

On that note, if the devs want some suggestions I'd be more than happy to necro my years of suggestions to page 1 again. Or you can just search my posts, its like 90% of what I've talked about for most of my time on these forums, including times when it performed well.

Hell, they could standup a workshop and invite various warriors from the community to provide actionable feedback and suggestions.

[oscuro.9720]

Guys, it’s very okay after they’ve made pretty significant changes to several parts of Warrior to not have a “clear vision” of what they want for one espec (or more likely one build on one espec). How many of you know at all times what every aspect of Warrior needs to improve? You don’t. Sometimes you need time to think. If they’re saying the same thing in a month or two, I’d be concerned. But saying you don’t know necessitates being aware, which means you are going to be thinking about it if you are a motivated, thoughtful individual.

I’m probably coming across as a dev simp to some of the pessimistic folks here, but the people who have been on the Warrior forums long enough would know I’ve levied my fair share of criticism against them for changes. I’m just trying to think about what I do at work and how I handle issues, and I’m not always certain what to do with tasks I have, so I put them in the back of the queue and work on the things I immediately can while they linger in the back of my mind. And sometimes I come back and have no idea still, and sometimes I come back and have a fresh, less stressed view.

Feel free to disagree with me if you’d like, it’s important to hear all opinions and I’m just sharing mine 🙂 

edit: if they want suggestions I volunteer as tribute!

edit edit: only for competitive modes I wouldn’t trust me with pve balance 😂

Edited February 21 by oscuro.9720

[Jzaku.9765]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Guys, it’s very okay after they’ve made pretty significant changes to several parts of Warrior to not have a “clear vision” of what they want for one espec (or more likely one build on one espec). How many of you know at all times what every aspect of Warrior needs to improve? You don’t. Sometimes you need time to think. If they’re saying the same thing in a month or two, I’d be concerned. But saying you don’t know necessitates being aware, which means you are going to be thinking about it if you are a motivated, thoughtful individual.

I’m probably coming across as a dev simp to some of the pessimistic folks here, but the people who have been on the Warrior forums long enough would know I’ve levied my fair share of criticism against them for changes. I’m just trying to think about what I do at work and how I handle issues, and I’m not always certain what to do with tasks I have, so I put them in the back of the queue and work on the things I immediately can while they linger in the back of my mind. And sometimes I come back and have no idea still, and sometimes I come back and have a fresh, less stressed view.

Feel free to disagree with me if you’d like, it’s important to hear all opinions and I’m just sharing mine 🙂 

edit: if they want suggestions I volunteer as tribute!

edit edit: only for competitive modes I wouldn’t trust me with pve balance 😂

The kicker is that he said he doesn't have a "specific vision" - they do have an overall vision, they explicit state that they want Power Berserker to be a supported archetype. So in the upcoming patch they buff several Power Berserker things you can't necessarily all run in the same build regardless.

Imo, this scattershot approach has it's own pros since the end result is more things are buffed by the time a combination of changes add up to a good build, than a powerful specifically targeted buff that they have to immediately hit the brakes and start thinking about nerfing instead. Of course, it also has it's cons.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:02 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Hell, they could standup a workshop and invite various warriors from the community to provide actionable feedback and suggestions.

@Cal Cohen.2358

Hello~ *waves flag*

We're literally right here~

We've been pressing these buttons for like 10 years, hit us up anytime

Edited February 21 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Cal Cohen.2358

Hello~ *waves flag*

We're literally right here~

We've been pressing these buttons for like 10 years, hit us up anytime

Just give us pizza and beer.

[Mara.6782]

When they are going to change spellbreaker utility skills?  No one use them. Elite skill is the only useful. New weapon is only useful with berserker and bladesworn with healing build. I want to know what is spellbreakers role in this game. Berserker is condi,power,support and bladesworn is power,support. Spellbreaker is only power and sometimes a tank, but thats only in raids and all others can do more damage and support at the same time.