Openings

[bethekey.8314]

Fun little exercise, counting out loud the defensives / seconds you can't attack someone. Turns out Virtuoso, Vindicator, Dragonhunter can all keep up block/invuln/evade/stealth/stab chains for quite some time, even weaving in nifty 7k+ bursts between that force you to go on the defensive.

Let's be real, that's degenerate. I expect this from Virt, but the kitten seems to be spreading. Thieves not having their damage crippled for spamming stealth and Bladesworns being literally immune to projectiles are other examples.

For comparison, we all know Necromancer is the punching bag, but it is given 2 good teleports, innate protection, and a second HP bar for that reason. Engineer, other Warriors, and some Elementalists get what in comparison?

More damage? No.

More health? Not really.

Speaking from an Engi perspective I usually get 1.5 stunbreaks, a block, and a couple CCs. No excessive evades, aegis spam, multiple stealths or teleports. Granted, flashbang is super annoying and I'd love a change on that, but you have to land it to have an effect. Any build and class that relies on interacting with others can't fight half the builds playing today.

Interaction is fun Anet. Things that prevent it aren't, and are very powerful. 60 second cd for 3 seconds invuln powerful: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_S

Do something about it, a year ago.

Edited February 22 by bethekey.8314

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Shield Master working with Aegis is one of these instances where it clearly feels unintended but instead of fixing it, Anet be like " It's a feature now" 

Edited February 22 by DanAlcedo.3281

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Fun little exercise, counting out loud the defensives / seconds you can't attack someone. Turns out Virtuoso, Vindicator, Dragonhunter can all keep up block/invuln/evade/stealth/stab chains for quite some time, even weaving in nifty 7k+ bursts between that force you to go on the defensive.

Let's be real, that's degenerate. I expect this from Virt, but the kitten seems to be spreading. Thieves not having their damage crippled for spamming stealth and Bladesworns being literally immune to projectiles are other examples.

For comparison, we all know Necromancer is the punching bag, but it is given 2 good teleports, innate protection, and a second HP bar for that reason. Engineer, other Warriors, and some Elementalists get what in comparison?

More damage? No.

More health? Not really.

Speaking from an Engi perspective I usually get 1.5 stunbreaks, a block, and a couple CCs. No excessive evades, aegis spam, multiple stealths or teleports. Granted, flashbang is super annoying and I'd love a change on that, but you have to land it to have an effect. Any build and class that relies on interacting with others can't fight half the builds playing today.

Interaction is fun Anet. Things that prevent it aren't, and are very powerful. 60 second cd for 3 seconds invuln powerful: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_S

Do something about it, a year ago.

engi and depending which specs has enough to fight/pressure these classes. You can't expect to play the same as them defensively. You have other strengths you got to use well, to find their weak spots in, you will see.

[bethekey.8314]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Shield Master working with Aegis is one of these instances where is clearly feels unintended but instead of fixing it, Anet be like " It's a feature now" 

Yeah, at this point I've said my piece about Warrior reflects and don't want to harp on it. Bladesworn isn't as popular now.

Games today were mostly filled with Virts, Vindis, and DHs chaining embarrassing levels of defense.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Add ele to this--good weaver or offensive tempest and you will die in seconds melee to them just from the condi spam they can output in-between defenses.

Vindi's pretty strong at them moment too, evidenced by the amount of rev cope in the topic I made on it 😂.

I'd think Holo can wreck Virt though; granted the holo has to be very skilled but the mechanics are there.  

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Add ele to this--good weaver or offensive tempest and you will die in seconds melee to them just from the condi spam they can output in-between defenses.

Vindi's pretty strong at them moment too, evidenced by the amount of rev cope in the topic I made on it 😂.

I'd think Holo can wreck Virt though; granted the holo has to be very skilled but the mechanics are there.  

that's no evidence, that isn't how evidence is given

[JosephKatz.9375]

10 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Fun little exercise, counting out loud the defensives / seconds you can't attack someone. Turns out Virtuoso, Vindicator, Dragonhunter can all keep up block/invuln/evade/stealth/stab chains for quite some time, even weaving in nifty 7k+ bursts between that force you to go on the defensive.

Let's be real, that's degenerate. I expect this from Virt, but the kitten seems to be spreading. Thieves not having their damage crippled for spamming stealth and Bladesworns being literally immune to projectiles are other examples.

For comparison, we all know Necromancer is the punching bag, but it is given 2 good teleports, innate protection, and a second HP bar for that reason. Engineer, other Warriors, and some Elementalists get what in comparison?

More damage? No.

More health? Not really.

Speaking from an Engi perspective I usually get 1.5 stunbreaks, a block, and a couple CCs. No excessive evades, aegis spam, multiple stealths or teleports. Granted, flashbang is super annoying and I'd love a change on that, but you have to land it to have an effect. Any build and class that relies on interacting with others can't fight half the builds playing today.

Interaction is fun Anet. Things that prevent it aren't, and are very powerful. 60 second cd for 3 seconds invuln powerful: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_S

Do something about it, a year ago.

Engi is currently the most broken class in the game. Another instance of the pot calling the kettle black. Check your privileges sir.

[Nepster.4275]

What thief and DH doing nowdays is disgusting 

Like, literally no counterplay against a DE and fighting a DH feel like am fighting some bunker kitten but it hits like a glass cannon, same for WB without as much damage in one skill

And I need to agree with the guy from previous comment, engi is currently in a very good state, I would even go as far as for saying that it's OP AF, the superspeed 8k granade spam and even stealth is just too much in one kit

And virt needs a full rework, as a mesmer player who nowdays is rather playing Holo or DH, virt in it's current state is only played by people who ONLY care about winning a 1v1, the whole spec is unfun with it's idiot mechanics, let it be the blades or the unblockables, just rework it into a normal spec because I would even say it's good for what it's worth as long as you are in a 1v1 but unfun to play 

[SleepyBat.9034]

11 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

engi and depending which specs has enough to fight/pressure these classes. You can't expect to play the same as them defensively. You have other strengths you got to use well, to find their weak spots in, you will see.

Virt is very much a hard counter to pretty much all engi builds atm. High burst that is unblockable, very fun.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

Engi is currently the most broken class in the game. Another instance of the pot calling the kettle black. Check your privileges sir.

Correction: Lock on is the most broken trait in the game. But only for you, since the only build you can play is stealth camping thief 😄

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

that's no evidence, that isn't how evidence is given

It is, because now you are doing it over topics lol

[Endo.1652]

Just run AED and everyone will be salty when fighting you

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It is, because now you are doing it over topics lol

Also not, thar is just my word, which isn't evidence. If I would give evidence myself I would show something in a screenshot or video with proof about such. 

Neither did, or claimed that mine was evidence 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

33 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Also not, thar is just my word, which isn't evidence. If I would give evidence myself I would show something in a screenshot or video with proof about such. 

Neither did, or claimed that mine was evidence 

Wait, are you saying this take is pointless:

17 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

engi and depending which specs has enough to fight/pressure these classes. You can't expect to play the same as them defensively. You have other strengths you got to use well, to find their weak spots in, you will see.

Because you didn't post video or screenshot evidence showing that engi can fight these classes?

So then when you reply to me and told me to show evidence for this take:

14 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I'd think Holo can wreck Virt though; granted the holo has to be very skilled but the mechanics are there.  

You really disagree with yourself by proxy as I didn't post "evidence"?

I knew the sPvP forums were confusing but...lol

[CallousEye.5018]

Engi under Holosmith has Photon Wall and with Hammer, Electro Whirl as far as abilities that let us go offensive while also being defensive. The evade on Rocket Charge is really hard to use, but there is that also.

In general these are weaker than Mesmer and Guardian invulnerabilities, because the latter’s negates CC fields.

I think if damage and healing in PVP were toned down or if health pools were greatly toned up, the impact of the “I can hit you, but you can’t hit me,” abilities would be reduced.

Right now PVP is mostly glass fighting glass, if you’re not getting hit, defensive stats don’t do anything.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Wait, are you saying this take is pointless:

Because you didn't post video or screenshot evidence showing that engi can fight these classes?

So then when you reply to me and told me to show evidence for this take:

You really disagree with yourself by proxy as I didn't post "evidence"?

I knew the sPvP forums were confusing but...lol

If you want to be technical about all, yes.

The only thing without proof what we can do is share our experiences and hold on to that. The other person can believe it or not, that's up to the person.

Is this all useless, idk, might be if you think it is or did you learn something out of it then it might be not.

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, CallousEye.5018 said:

Engi under Holosmith has Photon Wall and with Hammer, Electro Whirl as far as abilities that let us go offensive while also being defensive. The evade on Rocket Charge is really hard to use, but there is that also.

In general these are weaker than Mesmer and Guardian invulnerabilities, because the latter’s negates CC fields.

I think if damage and healing in PVP were toned down or if health pools were greatly toned up, the impact of the “I can hit you, but you can’t hit me,” abilities would be reduced.

Right now PVP is mostly glass fighting glass, if you’re not getting hit, defensive stats don’t do anything.

Glass fighting glass? where? the game is full of low effort bunker/duelist builds, and then front loaded dps like WB/mirage/DE, pumping out blocks/daze/stealth spam while spewing damage. None of those are glass.. their mitigation goes FAR beyond it. Power herald is the bench mark of a glass build, in terms of punihsment for mistake... all that other kitten is covered by crutch mechanics.

 

Healing doesnt need toned down, there is enough poison spam in the game to render it nion redundent. What needs toned down is easy bunker builds that force a 2v1 for very little skill, and face roll front loaded dps builds having their burst covered by cheap low risk mechancis. You can't counter pressure these kitten front loaded specs.. and you kitten well should be able to. Gold player on front loaded spec >> same or more pressure as a plat power herald. Thats the litteral state of the game "bullet proof glass"

Edited February 22 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

that's no evidence, that isn't how evidence is given

Yeah every game is clearly full of vindi/eles.. why people spread this bs I don't know.

 

Ele has never been a highly represented spec across all of its meta time and to date, becuase its hard to play and punishing on power.. there are easier options for better reward @below pro skill level (absolute fact people hate to admit). I played ele a lot, the game tries to match you with another ele right?, but most games, I was the only ele, no matter the elo.

I now mostly play rev, and same again, don't see a lot of revs (but more than eles sure) when you do, its normally a plat level power herald, or a newb (same as ele players). Not sure where all these pro vindis are hanging out? off peaking? Meanwhile, DH-WB-Core gaurd/Druid/Virt-Mirage/SPB. A necro or two per game is just a given. But sure, ele/vindis everywhere.

 

 

[Shagie.7612]

how it feels playing condi into holosmith

[JosephKatz.9375]

10 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Correction: Lock on is the most broken trait in the game. But only for you, since the only build you can play is stealth camping thief 😄

Seems to be you’ve lost every 1 v 1 you’ve attempted on every build you can play, which also lets be real is only 1… and middling tier at that. Regardless, Holosmith is much more concerning than guardian or thief in any form currently. See I’m not saying anything about Ele. 😂 

Edited February 23 by JosephKatz.9375

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

If you want to be technical about all, yes.

The only thing without proof what we can do is share our experiences and hold on to that. The other person can believe it or not, that's up to the person.

Is this all useless, idk, might be if you think it is or did you learn something out of it then it might be not.

Even video 'proof' is useless, as what you think might be good or bad I probably don't, and vice versa.  

The evidence here is you quoting me out of the blue, btw.  And the only reason you quoted me I suspect is I used 'rev cope' directly after the term evidenced.  So we do have proof at present that certain rev mains are touchy 😂.

Anyway, I expressed same opinion as OP that vindi has too much in the way of defense uptime, but also said that holo probably can beat vindi easily under the right conditions--and OP is clearly an engineer main, so I hadn't shown any bias when you quoted me.  

[arazoth.7290]

4 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Even video 'proof' is useless, as what you think might be good or bad I probably don't, and vice versa.  

The evidence here is you quoting me out of the blue, btw.  And the only reason you quoted me I suspect is I used 'rev cope' directly after the term evidenced.  So we do have proof at present that certain rev mains are touchy 😂.

Anyway, I expressed same opinion as OP that vindi has too much in the way of defense uptime, but also said that holo probably can beat vindi easily under the right conditions--and OP is clearly an engineer main, so I hadn't shown any bias when you quoted me.  

you said virts, unless it was a spelling mistake.

But if there was vid proof, things could be pointed out for both sides in it, the good, the bad things.

I main rev yea, but that's besides the point why I said ''that isn't how evidence is given". You could have put any other class, I would still have written that hehe.

 

And again, vindi has defensives yea, but they can be played around how they work. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

you said virts, unless it was a spelling mistake.

Ah ok, yeah it was more of a 'got lost in flow of conversation' mistake--initially I said virt because believe that's what OP was on about, but then later said vindi because we started talking about it.  

The tldr; there is I don't think engineer is weak atm and can beat either--holosmith in particular is super strong and I believe OP knows this.  The problem is its only strong in pretty skilled hands, so it makes it look weak.  It isn't for me though--mechanist...now that is a dumpster fire.  

[arazoth.7290]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Ah ok, yeah it was more of a 'got lost in flow of conversation' mistake--initially I said virt because believe that's what OP was on about, but then later said vindi because we started talking about it.  

The tldr; there is I don't think engineer is weak atm and can beat either--holosmith in particular is super strong and I believe OP knows this.  The problem is its only strong in pretty skilled hands, so it makes it look weak.  It isn't for me though--mechanist...now that is a dumpster fire.  

Get a holo and use a hologram outfit in pvp and make it same colour of red as holo form on it strongest. 

Those who don't use generalised characterd in options settings, might get confused. Since if they look red they will more hesistant for a burst by thinking they see that and when you're in your actual form they might not expect it. 

Just some fun mind tricks 😂, I don't use engi but if I would, I would do that hehe

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The game is to complicated. Not enough devs pvp enough to know the intricacies of pvp combat to make it balanced.