What happened to WvW?

[XenesisII.1540]

16 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Write as if you've never played WVW. Typical situation that I see in my area ( when you have an adequate number of online players ) comes the call of the scout when the snowball is now on the lord ( because the snowballs are so strong as you insist on saying that they have to build 6 catapults to take the bay quickly or they will have to deal with the enemy ) the time to gather your side towards the bay (with a ratio of 1 : 1 if necessary because often some snowballs under pressure struggle to stay in formation so you can clear them even when outnumbered) that have already captured the target. So what do you do? you wait for them outside (when they dare to go out). There you can witness how a snowball takes 20 minutes to arrive at the N/W camp. You can imagine the ending for yourself. ✌️

Just so you know, it's not a good thing bragging about taking 20 mins to kill a boon blob, it most likely means they're killing you defenders more than you're killing them since your spawn is closer than theirs. Boon balls facing each other at near 1:1 usually is 30s-3min fights, depending on the groups involved, pugs taking 20 mins means you don't have enough players, or you have enough players but not running anything useful(most likely getting farmed, usually in keeps) and got lucky a couple players managed to drop some aoe strips at the right place and right time for you to take one or two before a res could happen, or a fluke focus fire one an enemy. 

If you think that's "fun" then you do you, the boon blobs appreciates your contributions, I'd much rather starve these groups of content.

[Mabi black.1824]

7 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Just so you know, it's not a good thing bragging about taking 20 mins to kill a boon blob, it most likely means they're killing you defenders more than you're killing them since your spawn is closer than theirs. Boon balls facing each other at near 1:1 usually is 30s-3min fights, depending on the groups involved, pugs taking 20 mins means you don't have enough players, or you have enough players but not running anything useful(most likely getting farmed, usually in keeps) and got lucky a couple players managed to drop some aoe strips at the right place and right time for you to take one or two before a res could happen, or a fluke focus fire one an enemy. 

If you think that's "fun" then you do you, the boon blobs appreciates your contributions, I'd much rather starve these groups of content.

So let's see, I've written to you that there's game and counter game. If you're facing a group of 30 guild players in formation,you have to organize yourself accordingly, sometimes it takes you 20 minutes to clear. In those 20 minutes you won't see anyone die on all 2 sides (I wrote that you have to have the numbers and above all players who know what they have to do). You'll see them go forward 10 meters and go back 10 meters to res the ones you've knocked down. Again, again and again. when you've eaten the tail of how much you need. Only then, as you wrote, will you see the grand finale in a 30-second minute.

I am also grateful for the content and the opportunities offered to me by all those snowballs I meet on the street.😊

[XenesisII.1540]

15 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

In those 20 minutes you won't see anyone die on all 2 sides

"Write as if you never played WVW."

No one dying in 20 mins means you're just staring at each other and not actually fighting.

Back to ignore you go.

[Mabi black.1824]

41 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

No one dying in 20 mins means you're just staring at each other and not actually fighting.

This isn't always true, at least for my limited gaming experience.

[Gehenna.3625]

20 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Maybe it's more the log in time. I don't know any entire server that can flex like that around the clock if any time outside of that magical window when all their usual savvy pugs are on at the same time. I'll look around and see who's there and the general body language on all sides and I'll know if it's doable or not. Some people just know how to move around with each other like a pack of wild dogs if you've ever watched videos of them scrapping with other animals. Once the other sides body language gives up the lane they chose and how they scramble to correct then you can plot something. 

The log in time is also a point yes and for people who can only play at those times it's an issue.

20 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Most of the time though, your tags or pugs are going to try and square up and attempt a drive they think will break them, putting pretty much everything into one wild play. I don't fault them when they get swept though because they're trying to facilitate a whole kitten blob or squad of different types of people and they might not have all of their go-getters on the map. But then, they should also have some legs outside of full composition. 

There are times that we have one tag on our side and if they're busy on EB then HBL is left open. If then another server has two or three tags then there's not much you can do.

20 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

 

ArchonWing gave a nice breakdown in another thread with some solid points if we're taking the average across server pops and not entirely everyone's allstars. 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Oh I agree that there is a skill issue in there as well but that's part of the reason why boonballs are way too powerful. You can say, ok, just l2p and that's it. But then you chase a whole lot of people away or demotivate them, so they'll just avoid fighting. I often see that we have a tag on the map that has to face on or two bigger zergs. The issue is though that there are a lot of solo players just capping camps. So where the tag is trying to save the garrison, there are 10-20 people there just capping camps. This will not change. These people are either there for their own reasons (GoB, legendary items) and don't care about WvW itself or they are demotivated players who know what time it is.

Or you can say, well, we have a lot of people who aren't really that organised and skilled or are there for other reasons so let's not overdo it on the other end. Let's give more people who aren't that skilled a chance. Then they might actually participate more and perhaps even l2p. 

Just chasing those people away will make WvW rather empty. That's what I'm saying. Besides, if you're skilled why should you be twice as good instead of 1.5 times as good? Considering your skill level you shouldn't need that much of an advantage...because, well,  you're skilled. And it doesn't matter when skilled players fight skilled players because they are still on the same level. And then we can talk about fixing population imbalances. 

There will always be imbalances in WvW. That's part of the deal. But then you shouldn't make boonballs so much more powerful than a disorganized group because that will just add on top of the existing imbalances. You don't need it and it only serves and encourages farm/gank behavior. 

So tell me, in your opinion, why should boonballs be so much more powerful than a non-boonball? I get that there should be a reward for playing well but it's just way too much imo and it actually makes WvW worse for everybody.

[Silinsar.6298]

43 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The issue is though that there are a lot of solo players just capping camps. So where the tag is trying to save the garrison, there are 10-20 people there just capping camps. This will not change. These people are either there for their own reasons (GoB, legendary items) and don't care about WvW itself or they are demotivated players who know what time it is.

Don't gaslight scouts, roamers and havoc groups. Splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, drawing more enemies away from their zerg than you'll be missing yourself is one of the best tactics to fight an opponent with numerical advantage. It's also much more interesting and rewarding to do than being a cog in a 1-5fps boonball fight that might or might not make any difference.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I would consider players that can solo camps to contribute more than the average player, esp if the later is just feeding the enemy. I've seen many links where people complain about camps not being camped, or roamers not camping them (all while telling roamers to get off the map while then being a surprised pikachu that enemy camps are not flipped)., so I'm just going to assume they can't do it on their own.

At a very minimum someone that solos camps is willing to put themselves at risk and be solely responsible for their results. That can always lead to some avenue of improvement, where someone that just leeches off other people can't even comprehend this line of thought.
 

You can also blame the pip farmer/legendary farmer, but honestly these are casual players that aren't on that much and aren't the types to wait around and clog queues.  If they were actually hardcore degenerates, then they'd farm it asap and vanish anyways. Casual players generally have better things to do then play the game for 5 hours.

The actual leeches are veterans that have learned to game the system by autorunning and doing the bare minimum. They're also more likely to be around for long periods of times. And if one decides to play this game mode for a long time, and refuse to actually be of use to anyone, then this is a consequence of their own doing and they shouldn't cry when WvWers exclude them. Nobody's going to miss auto wall runners. In fact it's probably better they vanish sooner.

It's not very hard to contribute. You don't even have to be good. All you really have to be is a decent enough doorstop.  Even if you run a minstrel willbender and all you do is have several enemy players break off from the zerg and chase you around the map, that's a pretty decent contribution. It's not all about wombo combo Youtube montage gameplay, at all. That doesn't even win wvw anyways.

Sometimes we have pvers that can't fight other players but they do a good job taking down a lord quickly. You may not look favorably upon that, but that can be very contributory. I wouldn't call this useless either. You really have to be doing kitten all to be so.

It's up to the WvWer to know this and make the best use of the resources they have. Know that other players can provide certain types of value, and help them get the most out of it.

So when people say they can't do anything when they have the superior numbers, they're just not trying hard enough. And sure to be fair, the game doesn't reward you for that effort, but on the other hand people are more likely to want to play with if you do lend a hand often enough.

And of course, as I noted in the linked post, then yea boonball meta is kinda garbage. It in fact is moving the game in a direction that undermines everything I write above.  But you can't blame it on everything.

 

Edited March 9 by ArchonWing.9480

[Bunny.9834]

It's been slowly becoming unplayable. really sad tbh. 

From the boon ball meta, nerfed siege damage, horrible matchmaking. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

11 hours ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

Don't gaslight scouts, roamers and havoc groups. Splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, drawing more enemies away from their zerg than you'll be missing yourself is one of the best tactics to fight an opponent with numerical advantage. It's also much more interesting and rewarding to do than being a cog in a 1-5fps boonball fight that might or might not make any difference.

Camps, Towers take 1. Keeps take 2. SMC is 2-3. How do you counter a map zerg, split up and hit them everywhere they are not. That's what the tourny days taught players along with coverage wars. The game mode needs various sizes of play if you want to actually win. How do you counter that? You also need to run in mix numbers to counter. You need a mix to win, not just more against another side that is trying to the more tactic. Anet hasn't quite gotten that yet or haven't run in combined arms to meet an end. It's not all or another, it's a mix that's used, but they error on the boon side. Versus see it as how many do I need and how many to cover defense of what we have.

Edited March 10 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: redefine the point

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

So when people say they can't do anything when they have the superior numbers,

If you don't mind I am going to spin this since ran into this while falling from T1 to T8. Havocs, Roamers, you can impact score. You can be a counter to a map zerg. If they don't split up to face you. Move and make them face multiple fronts. If they don't they will ktrain and still lose. So they drop to lower tiers while you move up. Sometimes losing is winning. Even while we have no reason to win.

Now add in reasons to win and .........

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

If you don't mind I am going to spin this since ran into this while falling from T1 to T8. Havocs, Roamers, you can impact score. You can be a counter to a map zerg. If they don't split up to face you. Move and make them face multiple fronts. If they don't they will ktrain and still lose. So they drop to lower tiers while you move up. Sometimes losing is winning. Even while we have no reason to win.

Now add in reasons to win and .........

Well I've never cared about score too much but still being able to impact the battlefield lets you win fights through attrition.

It should be noted that some guilds just attack structures to farm bags. It's pretty easy to identify that as well as the delayed lord caps. Sometimes it's very possible to just destroy their siege and if they don't want to resupply and just keep farming the dummies running out of the portal, it's perfectly fine to just leave them there if they're not really breaking in any time soon.

[Gehenna.3625]

13 hours ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

Don't gaslight scouts, roamers and havoc groups. Splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, drawing more enemies away from their zerg than you'll be missing yourself is one of the best tactics to fight an opponent with numerical advantage. It's also much more interesting and rewarding to do than being a cog in a 1-5fps boonball fight that might or might not make any difference.

Gaslight...lol. Please don't make yourself look ridiculous by using such terms inappropriately. Besides, I'm a scout myself and I know the difference. When you have 15+ people waiting to cap a camp while the garrison is being attacked and the comm is asking for help, there is a problem no matter how you turn it.

Edited March 10 by Gehenna.3625

[joneirikb.7506]

 Some of the points here, like Grim's suggestion about splitting up to actually fight efficiently for points, requires the playerbase to "in general" actually care about points. This is a problem of motivation, that we've struggled with for a long time, probably all the way back since after the tournaments but I don't remember exactly.

If you want the average player/groups of players to actually "fight smart" and thus spread out to take multiple objectives, you need to make them actually be motivated/care about points. There is unfortunately no other way to do this. As the system works right now, the majority of players are mostly "motivated" by rewards, and getting them as easy as possible, which is why we have a general meta that more and more resembles the Open World PVE Zergs that just runs things over, and if they fail an event they run off and come back another time when "the zerg doesn't suck and hold them back".

Players are inherently lazy (they're humans after all) and will always seek out the most reward for the least effort. That's the baseline for how to interact with the majority of players.

As such, I think the only way to do anything about this would be to link up personal rewards to points in some manner. The problem with this, is that the more you link rewards up to score, the more you get server stacking (less effort, more rewards!), so it needs to be small enough somehow. So it's a complicated fight against human nature.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

14 hours ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

Don't gaslight scouts, roamers and havoc groups. Splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, drawing more enemies away from their zerg than you'll be missing yourself is one of the best tactics to fight an opponent with numerical advantage. It's also much more interesting and rewarding to do than being a cog in a 1-5fps boonball fight that might or might not make any difference.

Heresy! How dare you suggest that anything other than a boonball rolling around doing PPT is the correct way to play this game.

ANET have made it very clear; there is only one way to play WvW, and they'll "fix" anything that gets in the way of that. And they don't care how many players they kitten off enough to leave in the meantime.

[Silinsar.6298]

54 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Gaslight...lol. Please don't make yourself look ridiculous by using such terms inappropriately. Besides, I'm a scout myself and I know the difference. When you have 15+ people waiting to cap a camp while the garrison is being attacked and the comm is asking for help, there is a problem no matter how you turn it.

Might have not been the perfect word, but I think the meaning comes across. You are changing your own argument here, you were talking about a number of solo players capping camps, not a single big group waiting at one camp. You're also just assuming what some other players are actually doing without knowing it - unless you're there in person to observe it.

There are different ways to help in that scenario, and yes, going there and joining the blob is one of them. You could also lay supply traps, hit their spawn so they have a longer way back, distract / kill off some stragglers trying to get to the zerg or quickly flip a camp of the third server before they go to resupply there, hit an objective they'll be afraid to lose during a longer siege... It is not a given that rushing to the commander is the best way for everyone to be helping out in this situation. In some situations the mistake is already done though - the attack was spotted too late, no siege was prepared, there's too little time to organize the necessary defense and / or you just don't have the people on the map. So the blob wipes, and would probably wipe with 10 more people rushing in to "help" too. All you're doing could be feeding the opponent loot and points. Maybe it's smarter to cut your losses, prepare to defend other objectives or hit something else while the opponent's zerg is still busy.

Anyway, you don't know what every player is doing exactly. You don't know what the best course of action would be. Players are not participating like you want them to, but they have no obligation to do so.

[XenesisII.1540]

lol lost a t3 ebg keep on a queued map without a fight yesterday, because the group running in private wasn't big enough to face the map queue horde in there, and of course they're running in private because they didn't want to play with others, but taking up half the map space on the most populated map, they're equally as useless as pugs. 🤭

/slowclap where's that lord fight that anet intended to have. Oh right, boon blobbing so strong now that even the small balls have no balls to face them.

 

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

If you don't mind I am going to spin this since ran into this while falling from T1 to T8. Havocs, Roamers, you can impact score. You can be a counter to a map zerg. If they don't split up to face you. Move and make them face multiple fronts. If they don't they will ktrain and still lose. So they drop to lower tiers while you move up. Sometimes losing is winning. Even while we have no reason to win.

Now add in reasons to win and .........

Except players in general don't care about scoring, they only care for fights and sometimes protecting upgrades. Playing on the other side of the map away from the blob isn't countering them, scoring is meaningless, you're backcapping stuff hoping they won't come to defend because you don't have a choice really. Blobs in general don't split themselves, there's no reason to, they will only respond to defense calls that have numbers for them to toy with. So you can split into 3 groups of 5 and backcap a bunch of stuff....

But the other thing is these blobs don't care if their server drops tiers, there's blobs that will sit in t4 for two months and give no effort to scoring, they're only interested in farming kills. You're not really winning over them, you're just getting away from that particular farming, into another tier, which probably has groups doing the same thing there....

There's four things to do facing a blob, have your own blob of same strength(which sadly doesn't happen as often as you need), an effective cloud which frankly only mag pulls off consistently, give them no content(don't face them,  move maps, backcap stuff instead) so they get bored and move maps or log off, or log off yourself and do something else more interesting. 

Problem with wvw these days is less people caring to play wvw as originally intended, objectives are only beacons to pull fights to, it's become a deathmatch for most, and buffing boons/support side of combat only reinforces that even more. Wvw in general needs a revamp in many areas, not just a population toss up every 4 weeks, but sadly that will never come and the mode will continue to die and attract less new pve players into it (more so since a lot of them don't need the legendary armor only gob/conflux now). It doesn't help that the vets berate, belittle, bully, don't teach, don't play with them in the first place, get meta or gtfo, no one is picking up gw2 for wvw alone unless it was recommended, pve is the only source for new players, boon ball has a killing stranglehold on wvw, and no one seems to care for anything but killing the walking pug bags. 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 10 by XenesisII.1540

[joneirikb.7506]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

/slowclap where's that lord fight that anet intended to have. Oh right, boon blobbing so strong now that even the small balls have no balls to face them.

Boon Balls with no Balls ? This image is amusing.

But yeah, generally agree that players is playing the game as a death-match game, and essentially ignoring the mechanics of the game mode (lacking motivation to do so). This is generally put one of the hardest things to "fix", especially once you've lost it already. And naturally it's something I've honestly never seen players try to actually come up with plausible ideas for how to fix.

But the simplest example, presented as extremely as I can: Imagine if all your rewards where tied to points, so if your zerg crack every structure, but Grim and his 4 buddies back-cap every single one of them within 10 minutes. How much rewards would which side get? Say that it's PIPs based on the score per tick. You'd see players learn to split up REAL FAST (and also scream bloodcurling cries and new epic heights of trying to stack servers!)

[XenesisII.1540]

33 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Boon Balls with no Balls ? This image is amusing.

But yeah, generally agree that players is playing the game as a death-match game, and essentially ignoring the mechanics of the game mode (lacking motivation to do so). This is generally put one of the hardest things to "fix", especially once you've lost it already. And naturally it's something I've honestly never seen players try to actually come up with plausible ideas for how to fix.

But the simplest example, presented as extremely as I can: Imagine if all your rewards where tied to points, so if your zerg crack every structure, but Grim and his 4 buddies back-cap every single one of them within 10 minutes. How much rewards would which side get? Say that it's PIPs based on the score per tick. You'd see players learn to split up REAL FAST (and also scream bloodcurling cries and new epic heights of trying to stack servers!)

I've suggested a few things but no one cares, and it all comes back to rewards as the main motivation for anything to do with gw2.

Btw the split up and get points for rewards, already kinda exist with warscore ppt and pips for 1st 2nd 3rd place, but the 2 pip difference is really nothing to ever notice, maybe if it was a 5-10 pip difference people would give a kitten and cry about it (like the outnumbered 5 pip removal change did).

The only way you're going to break up blobs is if you make it so going over a certain number has a negative affect, which, anet won't do. Other than that you would need huge maps(people can barely stand desert size) or slower travel(they added mounts so nope, then tried to encourage more ewp usage for bag delivery for boon balls) in order to make one blob way less effective than multiple groups roaming around for multiple objectives at once, much like ESO does it, but as it is a blob can conquer a borderland without needing to break up in less than 30mins with little resistance present.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

ol lost a t3 ebg keep on a queued map without a fight yesterday, because the group running in private wasn't big enough to face the map queue horde in there, and of course they're running in private because they didn't want to play with others, but taking up half the map space on the most populated map, they're equally as useless as pugs. 

I think it is sensible when you reach a certain point where you cannot handle the enemy numbers and need to call others for help, that you should make your tag visible and closed. That way people will know where you are. You can also go back to invisible once it's done.

If people enjoy wiping because they like the challenge of fighting outnumbered, that's fine, but too many have egos and just want to blame other people for not psychically knowing what they will do.

It's like those dumb roamers that charge a group of 7-10 people and get mad at their team for not helping (sometimes people can't even physically reach them in time) after they evaporate. If you like fighting 1v10 that's cool and even respectable but don't expect everyone to. This is the exact same thing in large scale.

This link is especially bad. We abandoned a bay attack when a large group came and then apparently there was some invisible  group complaining about that because they stayed behind and died. Well, maybe that would have been different if they said anything in chat or anything to alert us to their presence but nope.

Boon balling has caused so much brain damage that it has impaired people from even saying the most basic of words to communicate. Well, aside from salty gamer lingo; that is just the sign of brain damage.

Edited March 10 by ArchonWing.9480

[joneirikb.7506]

1 minute ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I've suggested a few things but no one cares, and it all comes back to rewards as the main motivation for anything to do with gw2.

Btw the split up and get points for rewards, already kinda exist with warscore ppt and pips for 1st 2nd 3rd place, but the 2 pip difference is really nothing to ever notice, maybe if it was a 5-10 pip difference people would give a kitten and cry about it (like the outnumbered 5 pip removal change did).

The only way you're going to break up blobs is if you make it so going over a certain number has a negative affect, which, anet won't do. Other than that you would need huge maps(people can barely stand desert size) or slower travel(they added mounts so nope, then tried to encourage more ewp usage for bag delivery for boon balls) in order to make one blob way less effective than multiple groups roaming around for multiple objectives at once, much like ESO does it, but as it is a blob can conquer a borderland without needing to break up in less than 30mins with little resistance present.

I agree that rewards is the only effective lever ANet still has over the WvW mode at this point. I don't think a large enough amount of players would be swayed/motivated by anything else enough to change how they actually play in any meaningful way.

Well yeah, they're small modifiers, too small for most people to care about. Which is why I made a rather extreme suggestion of it, to point out how much that would change how players actually played the game. Was essentially trying to point out that how BIG that difference was affects how much it motivates players, and also as per the first point, how all they have to work with is how hard to crank that one lever they got.

And for the third, we have the ANet "Care Bear Rule", which stops any changes and options for punishing groups. Just imagine reducing/splitting the rewards for everything on the number of players in the same area. Take a Camp solo get X rewards, take a camp with 50 people together get X/50 for reward. That would have made players learn to split up real fast, and try to run as small groups as they could get away with. Imagine that, having players willingly try to play as small groups as they can. But yeah, never going to happen.

At this point, they could honestly just remove points (or just hidden them), I doubt the majority of players would have noticed a difference.

[XenesisII.1540]

4 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Boon balling has caused so much brain damage that it has impaired people from even saying the most basic of words to communicate. Well, aside from salty gamer lingo, that is just the sign of brain damage.

lol some of these guys can't kitten for the life of them. Keep your banter to your squad, why the kitten does the entire team need to hear it too, for 2 hours.

Oh and I especially like the ones that have to say they're tagging down in team chat... after a tagless run. Or the ones patting themselves on the back after a run, need attention much? 😏

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

23 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

lol some of these guys can't kitten for the life of them. Keep your banter to your squad, why the kitten does the entire team need to hear it too, for 2 hours.

Oh and I especially like the ones that have to say they're tagging down in team chat... after a tagless run. Or the ones patting themselves on the back after a run, need attention much? 😏

 

The tagging down thing is typcially a recruitment message but then again most Gw2 players including me can't be bothered to read more than 5 word sentences in chat soo... and they never reply if you reply to said message!

Not that one should expect MMO players to have social graces, but it gets really bad at times.

Like, rudely telling people to get off the map or do something generally doesn't work. It has the opposite effect and they have no power to force anyone on the map.

In general, it's bad to single people out. The best way to get people to do anything in Gw2 is to be passsive aggressive. So instead of flaming people for building paper arrow carts, I would go "gee, too bad we don't have any supply to build actually useful siege like shield gens. I guess someone thinks that tickling the enemy helps lol!"

If you attack people or something associated with them, they will immediately think you are the villain and shut you out.. But if you make them think for a second, then maybe they realize they were in the wrong all along. Granted, this is why people (including the folks you mentioned) try to get by without thinking.

It's the same point with a hint of dickishness but you also don't single out anyone and people can make adjustments in their own private time. And in all fairness, I see much better siege choices in our keep nowadays especially after I demonstrated some shield gen usage.   There's that one guild that has bad stab uptime that absolutely cannot handle them and I know they get all jittery when they see me running around with a blueprint on a willbender 🤣

Edited March 10 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

2 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

The tagging down thing is typcially a recruitment message but then again most Gw2 players including me can't be bothered to read more than 5 word sentences in chat soo...

Not that one should expect MMO players to have social graces, but it gets really bad at times.

Like, rudely telling people to get off the map or do something generally doesn't work. It has the opposite effect and they have no power to force anyone on the map.

In general, it's bad to single people out. The best way to get people to do anything in Gw2 is to be passsive aggressive. So instead of flaming people for building paper arrow carts, I would go "gee, too bad we don't have any supply to build actually useful siege like shield gens. I guess someone thinks that tickling the enemy helps lol!"

It's the same point with a hint of dickishness but you also don't single out anyone and people can make adjustments in their own private time. And in all fairness, I see much better siege choices in our keep nowadays especially after I demonstrated some shield gen usage.   There's that one guild that has bad stab uptime that absolutely cannot handle them and I know they get all jittery when they see me running around with a blueprint on a willbender 🤣

Oh I mean the ones that just thanks everyone, not a recruitment, like they were playing with everyone else, and then you get the responses, you were tagged? 🤭

I still see walmart siege around so I dunno about being more smart about it lol, you can get superior for free but somehow target siege still shows up.

I tried that approach on that keep loss (was on alt account not sbi), stating lol we have a map queue but can't defend a t3 keep, in which someone responded if you're typing you're not fighting, which you know.. they were also.. typing a response... sooo... 😏

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Oh I mean the ones that just thanks everyone, not a recruitment, like they were playing with everyone else, and then you get the responses, you were tagged? 

Yea, but even in those cases it's more of a publicity thing to get their guild name know, but yes people don't care lol.

That's like the sailor moon meme

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/my-job-here-is-done-but-you-didnt-do-anything

3 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

tried that approach on that keep loss (was on alt account not sbi), stating lol we have a map queue but can't defend a t3 keep, in which someone responded if you're typing you're not fighting, which you know.. they were also.. typing a response... sooo...

Well you know, you have to adjust it based on people. Some people are just too invested in the game and are just trying to start a fight, but hey, at least you can convince everyone else your opponent in chat is actually insane. That's also my forum strategy.

Edited March 10 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

33 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

I agree that rewards is the only effective lever ANet still has over the WvW mode at this point. I don't think a large enough amount of players would be swayed/motivated by anything else enough to change how they actually play in any meaningful way.

Well yeah, they're small modifiers, too small for most people to care about. Which is why I made a rather extreme suggestion of it, to point out how much that would change how players actually played the game. Was essentially trying to point out that how BIG that difference was affects how much it motivates players, and also as per the first point, how all they have to work with is how hard to crank that one lever they got.

And for the third, we have the ANet "Care Bear Rule", which stops any changes and options for punishing groups. Just imagine reducing/splitting the rewards for everything on the number of players in the same area. Take a Camp solo get X rewards, take a camp with 50 people together get X/50 for reward. That would have made players learn to split up real fast, and try to run as small groups as they could get away with. Imagine that, having players willingly try to play as small groups as they can. But yeah, never going to happen.

At this point, they could honestly just remove points (or just hidden them), I doubt the majority of players would have noticed a difference.

Yeah I honestly think an objective ownership bonus or lattice system(eso, planetside) would be better at this point. Using a point system with uneven teams was just a bad idea to begin with, I mean sure it worked in year one when we constantly had map queues, and the tournies, which really exposed how bad stacking was under that system, but not so much the 10 years after. Anet knows only rewards work as motivation at this point, also easiest solution to implement, not that they care to think or do anything else to improve wvw anyways, oh and of course preserving easy bag farms to keep the guilds happy to stick around. 😏