What happened to WvW?

[fuchsia.4369]

Boons every where boons boons boons. Doesnt matter if its 50 5 or 1 person the boon bar is full. Every other forum post is asking to do something with boons yet every balance goes the opposite direction and nerfs boon rip. The other posts ask to do something with cele yet those get ignored too. Where do these changes come from? Its not the forums, its not reddit, its not youtube, or anything else that the vast majority have access to. My guess is some private discord server. Does anet every take any feed back from the public? I've never seen zerg players, gvg players, roamers, gankers and duelers complaining about the same exact stuff and ive never seen a balance team ignore such glaring issues for so long. 

Edited March 3 by fuchsia.4369

[Knighthonor.4061]

Likely has something to do with a future design decision that hasnt been revealed yet but is slowly working its way to the introduction. 

[Widebody.5071]

I don't think it's just the boons there's also the nerfing of counter play to boons and skills that's been so prevalent since the beginning of the game. All coming from complaints about being op, not fun, boring and the usual stuff angry gamers say. All posted on the many different chat mediums.

I can't say who the people are but they seem to be regular components in the forum.

Edited March 3 by Widebody.5071

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

I don't think it's just the boons there's also the nerfing of counter play to boons and skills that's been so prevalent since the beginning of the game. All coming from complaints about being op, not fun, boring and the usual stuff angry gamers say. All posted on the many different chat mediums.

I can't say who the people are but they seem to be regular components in the forum.

Well it's never just one thing but I think that when it comes to imbalanced fights boonballs are the biggest imbalance of all in WvW... and yet, Anet never even wants to get near that topic it seems.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

WvW was already bad enough before EoD. Now its just a joke. Its just even more of a numbers game in large scale, small scale is just broken builds getting carried by 2-3 supports, or the odd boon bunkers that look for stalemate duels. And then of course thieves that only have fun when they are trolling with SA builds.

Edited March 3 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[RazieL.5684]

healers never should have existed in this game... it started off well, everyone sustaining themselves and maybe just a bit of support to allies... now you fight someone you get them to 20% and they run back to their support and get insta healed to full or are just a support themselves making them immortal unless several people ganks up on them to CC them to death or just nuke them really fast... remove healers from the game and everything will be fixed...

[Wolfofdivinity.6251]

WvW suffers from being a competitive mode for a game that markets itself as a safe space game for MMO play but not really mmo more like solo but can group up and blob once in awhile. 

 

We get what we can and keep on rolling

[Nightcore.5621]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:00 AM, Caille.7214 said:

CMC happened to WvW.

Just do as many already have done: un-install.

and just have a good laugh on the forums every now and then and watch this p2w garbage collapse upon itself.

Pretty much this .. and we all know celestial stats is one of the reasons..

Edited March 4 by Nightcore.5621

[randomusername.9015]

@Roy Marks.7689  @Cal Cohen.2358 why don't you elaborate? Countless negative boonblob and cele posts, yet no response from you guys.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 3/2/2024 at 10:58 PM, fuchsia.4369 said:

I've never seen zerg players

Sorry I am not really great at group think. 

I will have to say, we don't have as many of these as you imply. The reason we get less changes focusing on smaller scale play is that they do run in larger scale play since that is what they think WvW only is. Its a very small sampling but I would reference one of Xen's polls here for forum goers:

So we don't get a lot of larger scale posters since they are also the ones that asked for CC/Damage nerfs, overall nerfs over time. Its when the large scale falls to smaller scale that that the large scale players make more visits to the forums. Take even a previous set of nerfs to anti-boon. The justification on the live stream was they thought that players would be less likely to dive into a melee zerg on zerg fight in fear that they would lose their boons and not want to dive in. 

Versus thinking about it in two other ways. One, why would a melee player want to jump into a group that was waiting for them to do so while the group they were jumping into was all booned up. Then two they are still looking at the old pirate meta versus addressing ranged AoE target numbers versus melee target caps.

Boons have been around forever, and yes I agree we need more anti-boon to boon and that comes in the forms of CC and damage as well. But when we look back at all the various meta in large scale boons have been there in numbers. Be it the hammer/melee train meta, the pirate meta, the boon meta has just doubled down on the boons. Even in zerg busting days, it was the boons that allowed for the zerg busting against large groups that didn't employee as many boons. 

Agree more anti-boon vs boon. But there also needs to better balance in why they think boon spam is needed. More balance in ranged and melee if they are looking to find a middle ground between Hammer and Pirate meta in large scale while not making Roamers suddenly OP that everyone is calling us out and asking the nerf bat to target smaller scale play next. 

 

 

[senftube.6081]

What happend? Now the Devs kitten on their own players and add MOAR BoooooooONNNNNNnnnnsssss. XD And they simply do not care even when you would write a letter to to them.

Busted cele also still not nerved so roaming pretty dead.  Only Boon Zerg degenerate gameplay like in eso and for that alot players really see no fun anymore to play the game.

Edited March 4 by senftube.6081

[SlateSloan.3654]

I have a new idea. What if there where no servers but guilds could form an alliance with each others?

[Willem Bever.5329]

another part of this is the burst damage, pretty sure several classes can do 25k+ damage 1 to 2 seconds, this means that most builds will not survive that and that landing 1 stun means death. mirage, willbender and catalyst are examples, most condi builds that can apply burning in general can kill real quickly

Edited March 4 by Willem Bever.5329

[Gehenna.3625]

22 hours ago, Wolfofdivinity.6251 said:

We get what we can and keep on rolling

In about 3 weeks or so, I'll have all the legendaries from WvW completed. Then I'll take a long break from WvW. I've just grown tired of the boonball meta, so yeah I get what I can and keep rolling...for another 3 weeks 😉

[Riba.3271]

You can't really critise devs so they think players are the problem. (Even this mention is at the edge of comment being removed)

Yes, because GW2 playerbase is more childish than other games. They really need a reality check.

Edited March 5 by Riba.3271

[XenesisII.1540]

6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

But there also needs to better balance in why they think boon spam is needed. More balance in ranged and melee if they are looking to find a middle ground between Hammer and Pirate meta in large scale while not making Roamers suddenly OP that everyone is calling us out and asking the nerf bat to target smaller scale play next. 

Imagine if Anet took 1 day out of 365 days, to write up their balance philosophy, what they want to accomplish, what plans they have set in order to achieve those goals for the next year. Imagine trying to listen to the community for a change. When the community is screaming about boon balls, they add more spam remove more counters, it's like they're doing it out of spite now.

Indie game making more effort for balance than this game. https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52658&sid=ac24e0782ace14878a7f999ad5d37b9e

[Dagger.2035]

56 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Yes, because GW2 playerbase is more childish than other games. They really need a reality check.

You're a butthole! 😂

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

it's like they're doing it out of spite now.

Because Purity Of Purpose.

[Cryostasis.7680]

On the topic of boon balls, I'd say that the worst offender of the boons is alacrity due to its double-dipping nature and that it directly affects the production of all other boons. In the March 19th balance update preview we can see the following:

• Desert Empowerment: This trait now grants vigor instead of alacrity in PvP and WvW. (scourge)
• Grace of the Land: This trait now applies might instead of alacrity in WvW and PvP. (druid)
• Lucid Singularity: This trait now applies might instead of alacrity in PvP and WvW. (tempest)

I'd say this is a step in the right direction.

[Willem Bever.5329]

several classes providing this have not been touched at all, including the current most popular support spec called chronomancer,
besides that quickness giving 50% attack speed increase is probably some of the highest is the whole of mmo gaming

[Mabi black.1824]

19 hours ago, randomusername.9015 said:

@Roy Marks.7689  @Cal Cohen.2358 why don't you elaborate? Countless negative boonblob and cele posts, yet no response from you guys.

Do you know why they don't go deeper? because it suits him. It is better to remain within a vague illusion, rather than to assume the awareness that in the end it is a question of ability. If a group of players goes on voice and organizes themselves well in their specific constructions (those who take care of damage and those who take care of cleaning etc etc ) add to this an excellent coordination of the movement and its timing (explode - reload) as you can see we are talking about skill and organization.

Of course, we can argue about which coefficient could be reduced or which coefficient could be increased. Keep in mind that when you change something, it will affect the group in the same way as well. both the small and the large. if the players are good and organized to make the most of the game mechanics.

It means that we're talking about skill and not a bad mechanic.

[Willem Bever.5329]

not everything about that is skill though, certain classes just outright do stuff better then others, willbender with the pistols is already really easy to play with high dps in pve, that will not be that different in wvw.
and not every class will be equal ever, which we dont really mind either, we've seen this in the past in wvw as well.
but when starting moving up the ante on the amount of potential damage and the amount of boons available, it still is power creep.
and that without increasing any stats or the level of gear.

I understand they want to incentivise players to play the new stuff,
but when you constantly make what comes out next better, without nerfing it later back in line with the rest of the skills and game balance.
Skills become less important then having the lastest options.

[cryorion.9532]

23 hours ago, randomusername.9015 said:

@Roy Marks.7689  @Cal Cohen.2358 why don't you elaborate? Countless negative boonblob and cele posts, yet no response from you guys.

Becasue they don't really care. Player feedback is only good if it aligns with whatever vision balance team has. And judging from current balance state, their vision of WvW is for players to spam everything brainlessly and play it like in open world PvE. All this while ignoring outliers, overperforming builds and skills missing game mode split.

WvW balance went downhill since 2020 February balance patch. As it turned out, it was a failure and pointless. We still have insane damages but now with perma boons,  insane utility (this includes heals) and that longer CCs don't do damage... 👏

Edited March 5 by cryorion.9532

[Nugatory.8920]

They nerfed damage and strips too much, whilst at the same time trying to create viable support builds for all proffessions.

The natural consequence of this was a bunker meta.

There is very little skill involved anymore. The results of fights are almost always dictated by numbers. Stack supports, throw in the odd damage dealer, stand on one spot occasionally moving and spamming until one side runs out of cooldowns. 

I've been in boonblobs that lose and boonblobs that win, neither is particularly satisfying.

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Imagine if Anet took 1 day out of 365 days, to write up their balance philosophy, what they want to accomplish, what plans they have set in order to achieve those goals for the next year. Imagine trying to listen to the community for a change. When the community is screaming about boon balls, they add more spam remove more counters, it's like they're doing it out of spite now.

Indie game making more effort for balance than this game. https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52658&sid=ac24e0782ace14878a7f999ad5d37b9e

Nice link. Thanks for sharing and agree.