Explain to me like I'm five why Rampart Splitter does as much as an auto attack.

[Vinny.7260]

Y'all are on a weird escapade of bashing someone who has a valid point. Specifically bringing up that Staff as a Support weapon doesn't have damage. That's complete BS and y'all know this.

We've got Guardian's Holy Strike with a 1.25 coefficient;

Revenant's Mender's Rebuke with a 0.91 coefficient;

Ranger's Astral Wisp with 0.8 coefficient;

Untamed's Solar Brilliance with a whopping 3.0 over 6 strikes (0.5 PER strike);

Elementalist's Ice Spike has a 1.13 coefficient

 

Are y'all getting it? Specifically the Untamed example should be ringing a bell for something like a support weapon dealing damage. Untamed made it unique because it had a unique mechanic to provide a separate balancing towards.

The fact they explicitly targeted a spec dedicated towards damage and gave it a pitifully low coefficient really looks suspicious. If they were concerned it was going to hit too hard while also supporting, just reduce the healing coefficient, it's easier and more logical than to punish the damage spec for doing damage. It made much more sense thematically too. Bring it back to 1.25 anet, 0.5 is a joke. Lower the healing if you're concerned about Power Zerker having too much sustain.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

I got a 5 year old nefew and he understand only the thing that he is willing to understand if the explanation fit with his own ideas.

So, based on the title of your thread I guess you just want other players to tell you that the devs don't know anything about the reality of the game and balance. I hope you're satisfied with this answer.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I got a 5 year old nefew and he understand only the thing that he is willing to understand if the explanation fit with his own ideas.

So, based on the title of your thread I guess you just want other players to tell you that the devs don't know anything about the reality of the game and balance. I hope you're satisfied with this answer.

*polite smile*

No, sir. The thread title is a turn of phrase that means "explain (this subject) to me like I am a layperson or other individual that has a limited understanding of the issue (thereby making any subtle notions for why things may be the way they are known, for context.)"

Obviously the devs went out of their way to make specifically this change, so there must be an underlying reason for why they did so. I merely can't see it. I would make a joke here about the irony of a warrior being weak against perceiving nuance, but the last time I did that I had a [mandatory vacation] I needed to attend.

Now that I've cleared up the misunderstanding, would you like to try again? It should be obvious from the first page that I am looking for precisely what I am asking for. 

Edited March 6 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*polite smile*

No, sir. The thread title is a turn of phrase that means "explain (this subject) to me like I am a layperson or other individual that has a limited understanding of the issue (thereby making any subtle notions for why things may be the way they are known, for context.)"

Obviously the devs went out of their way to make specifically this change, so there must be an underlying reason for why they did so. I merely can't see it. I would make a joke here about the irony of a warrior being weak against perceiving nuance, but the last time I did that I had a [mandatory vacation] I needed to attend.

Now that I've cleared up the misunderstanding, would you like to try again? It should be obvious from the first page that I am looking for precisely what I am asking for. 

The only answer is that they don't want big white number and big green number on the same bar, at least for power berserker anyway.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The only answer is that they don't want big white number and big green number on the same bar, at least for power berserker anyway.

Is a 3.5k crit a big number? Rampart splitter is still hardlocked at a level 1 heal, so you're getting 1k out of using it on glass. If you swap to avatar amulet, you may get a larger healing but your damage output will suffer.

It would have behaved exactly like your suggestion if they didn't touch the coefficients. Now it just -doesn't- do damage no matter what. 

Edited March 6 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Is a 3.5k crit a big number? Rampart splitter is still hardlocked at a level 1 heal, so you're getting 1k out of using it on glass. If you swap to avatar amulet, you may get a larger healing but your damage output will suffer.

It would have behaved exactly like your suggestion if they didn't touch the coefficients. Now it just -doesn't- do damage no matter what. 

Big is relative. Anything over 2.5k on Berserker is too big for them. But then they've publicly stated that they don't even know what their own vision is for the spec, so is it any wonder it gets scatter shot treatment?

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:07 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Big is relative. Anything over 2.5k on Berserker is too big for them. But then they've publicly stated that they don't even know what their own vision is for the spec, so is it any wonder it gets scatter shot treatment?

 

If the devs don't have a vision for power zerker, please check my post history.  It's almost exclusively what I talk about, and if I'm not saying something about balance direction I'm in a thread that says something about it. 

Either that or thief memes.

The balance direction probably shouldn't include 1k crit bursts, even though the weapon is designated support. Its a burst skill that exists only on a damage oriented spec. It should have the coefficient it was going to ship with. 

If not, floor is open.  People keep saying it's a support weapon, but then the support weapons do 3-7k on specs built to do damage so... 

Edited March 8 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If the devs don't have a vision for power zerker, please check my post history.  It's almost exclusively what I talk about, and if I'm not saying something about balance direction I'm in a thread that says something about it. 

Either that or thief memes.

The balance direction probably shouldn't include 1k crit bursts, even though the weapon is designated support. Its a burst skill that exists only on a damage oriented spec. It should have the coefficient it was going to ship with. 

If not, floor is open.  People keep saying it's a support weapon, but then the support weapons do 3-7k on specs built to do damage so... 

Hey, they know where to find the warrior subforum.

[Stalima.5490]

probably because it is far stronger at healing while also being an immobilise

[Saiyan.1704]

Staff autos does so much damage that the whole enemy team feels it lol.
(if you know, you know)

[Shagie.7612]

29 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Staff autos does so much damage that the whole enemy team feels it lol.

Fun fact about it too, the third attack in the chain has literally infinite range.
It'll always hit your selected target if you can activate it by hitting things near you.

Edited March 9 by Shagie.7612

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:19 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

Fun fact about it too, the third attack in the chain has literally infinite range.
It'll always hit your selected target if you can activate it by hitting things near you.

Obvious bug. There's a laundry list of those besides the ones that just mildly inconvenience people fighting it. Line breaker only gives you one stack of unblockable instead of three, and if you manage to put weakness on anyone at the end of the skill that consumes the unblockable. Bullet catcher sometimes finishes its animation early. Snap pull doesn't work on mild terrain differences. There is plenty of proof to conclude Arenanet probably cares less about warrior bugs than other class bugs, but that isn't the point of the thread. 

Rampart Splitter change was deliberately introduced in patch notes. That's what I want to focus on. It wasn't an accident, or a bug. They wanted that to be so.

On 3/8/2024 at 6:26 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

probably because it is far stronger at healing while also being an immobilise

It's weaker at healing than Path to Victory. You only get level one bursts in berserk mode, and staff is horrible at building adrenaline so that 5 second cooldown doesn't matter.

Quote

also being an immobilise

Rupturing smash has a 2 second immob too, but it still does damage. 

Edited March 11 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stalima.5490]

34 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

It's weaker at healing than Path to Victory. You only get level one bursts in berserk mode, and staff is horrible at building adrenaline so that 5 second cooldown doesn't matter.

you do know it has 50% better healing coefficient right? which means you are getting substantially more healing per bar on a much lower cooldown while being to lock enemies in place, path to victory does weakness which isn't that big of a deal.

Rampart splitter is a 5 second cooldown 2 second immobilise by comparing this to net shot which has double the cooldown we can see that it is actually digustingly overpowered.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_to_Victory

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampart_Splitter

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

Edited March 11 by Stalima.5490

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

26 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

you do know it has 50% better healing coefficient right? which means you are getting substantially more healing per bar on a much lower cooldown while being to lock enemies in place, path to victory does weakness which isn't that big of a deal.

The 50% better healing coefficient only matters if you take a healing amulet. At that point you are not doing damage anyway. It's no justification for halving the damage of a skill that crit for 3k to begin with, especially on the profession that focuses on damage dealing. 

Quote

Rampart splitter is a 5 second cooldown 2 second immobilise

The cooldown doesn't matter. adrenaline takes too long to build on staff. You only get adrenaline on auto attack, and valiant leap only gives you adrenaline if you land on another ally. 

Quote

by comparing this to net shot which has double the cooldown we can see that it is actually digustingly overpowered.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_to_Victory

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampart_Splitter

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

The reason why I am not going to entertain this specifically should be obvious. It's kind of rude to compare a profession mechanic you need to fill a bar to even have access to, to Net Shot. There are better ways you can argue this I am sure. 

Edited March 11 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stalima.5490]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The 50% better healing coefficient only matters if you take a healing amulet. At that point you are not doing damage anyway. It's no justification for halving the damage of a skill that crit for 3k to begin with, especially on the profession that focuses on damage dealing. 

So a support weapon, focused on supporting, intended for supporting people is also supposed to do competetive damage with dps weapons?

 

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The cooldown doesn't matter. adrenaline takes too long to build on staff. You only get adrenaline on auto attack, and valiant leap only gives you adrenaline if you land on another ally. 

 

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The reason why I am not going to entertain this should be obvious.

why wouldn't you entertain this, abilities are balanced by their cooldown, I assume you are implying some combination of the adrenaline cost of a single bar paired with it being your profession mechanic, net shot has literally double the cooldown and one fifth of the damage while giving the same immobilise but with 8 vuln stacks, if anything, under "normal" circumstances rampart splitter would likely have triple the cooldown of net shot so quite frankly rampart splitter is factually grossly overpowered even at the same cooldown as net shot especially when you take into account that rampart splitter also has substantially greater trait synergy in comparison to net shot having almost none.

 

Being a support build means you would likely also take quickness thus meaning you will be rebuilding adrenaline while quickened on an immobile target it should not take that long to rebuild your adrenaline considering.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Being a support build means you would likely also take quickness thus meaning you will be rebuilding adrenaline while quickened on an immobile target it should not take that long to rebuild your adrenaline considering.

Quickness from where? Heat the soul gives you fury instead of quickness in PvP. Even with quickness, the auto chain is slow. 

Quote

So a support weapon, focused on supporting, intended for supporting people is also supposed to do competetive damage with dps weapons?

Scepter on rev is intended for supporting people, and blossoming aura crits for 7k on glass

Scepter on thief is for support, but Twilight combo crits for 7k on glass.

Herald is supposed to be boon support focused yet it remains a solid pick for +1 if built glass.

etc, etc. Like I mentioned before, there's tons of support weapons and specs out there that can be built to do damage.  Is asking for Rampart splitter to do 3k on glass like it did originally unreasonable in light of this? Is power berserker the one that has to follow the support archetype rule this hard?

Quote

why wouldn't you entertain this, abilities are balanced by their cooldown, I assume you are implying some combination of the adrenaline cost of a single bar paired with it being your profession mechanic, net shot has literally double the cooldown and one fifth of the damage while giving the same immobilise but with 8 vuln stacks, if anything, under "normal" circumstances rampart splitter would likely have triple the cooldown of net shot so quite frankly rampart splitter is factually grossly overpowered even at the same cooldown as net shot especially when you take into account that rampart splitter also has substantially greater trait synergy in comparison to net shot having almost none.

bolded is why. What follows is also why.

I don't think getting in some weird debate about how immobilize is a justification for the tanked damage, or trying to debate why net shot and rampart splitter have some fundamental balance disparity when looked at in a vacuum, apart from the skills that could comprise the rest of the profession kit does anything significant for anyone here but waste words.

 Picking a skill you're familiar with that does the same amount of immobilize, ignoring everything around those skills, and going "see, because this skill does less, Rampart Splitter is actually OP" isn't a good faith argument, especially when that rifle could be sitting on a holosmith. Balancing like that would be unwise for several reasons, as I mentioned before in this thread. 

Quote

abilities are balanced by their cooldown

In the context of their kit, sure, not individually. 

 

Edited March 11 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stalima.5490]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Quickness from where? Heat the soul gives you fury instead of quickness in PvP. Even with quickness, the auto chain is slow. 

my mistake, it gets confusing when they keep swapping things between pvp and pve. That doesn't change the fact that if you utilise discipline you can just get a 33% refund and turbo that heal out anyway tho nor does it cahnge the fact that this is a healing weapon and not a dps weapon so it shouldn't really be outputting amazing damage, especially when it also has a micro cc attached.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

19 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

my mistake, it gets confusing when they keep swapping things between pvp and pve.

That's a mood

Quote

That doesn't change the fact that if you utilise discipline you can just get a 33% refund and turbo that heal out anyway tho nor does it cahnge the fact that this is a healing weapon and not a dps weapon so it shouldn't really be outputting amazing damage, especially when it also has a micro cc attached.

Mannn I just want 3k if I crit on berserker amulet, I'm not asking for 6/7. 

It WAS 3k, then they made it 1-1.5. On a glass amulet. That I need to fill a bar for, on a weapon kit where half of the kit doesn't hit the opponent for damage by design.  I understand it shouldn't do amazing damage, that's not what I'm asking for. 

power berserker is critting for triple digits on anyone with protection by hitting a burst skill. It would be funny if I hadn't seen the joke like 15 other times.

Edited March 11 by Azure The Heartless.3261