Cele Druid WvW roaming showcase (video)

[Zyreva.1078]

Ranger weak, sword gutted, druid nerfed, torch the worst weapon in the game ... - if these forums were to be belived my build should be basically unplayable.

So here's a little showcase of cele druid doing cele things in WvW.

Enjoy (or not, up to you).

 

[Beddo.1907]

Let's be honest, you make up for the torch with your skill, than torch being good.
As for the other things, druid was nerfed but not as hard as ppl think, sword is a preference and Ranger is not weak, just lost some build options.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

Nature Magic/Wilderness Survival/Druid is still pretty strong setup for Celestial Druid. I still think its going to be strong after the nerfs to healing spring and glyph. I'm a Sword enjoyer myself so its glad to see people are try to convince sword isn't a bad weapon as an option. Especially when its synergies is potent with druids kit.

To explain to the causal or people who don't main ranger or druid.
He's using:

Nature's Magic 2/1/3 - offer's alots of sustain, %power to healing power, the ability to distribute boons not only to yourself but to your pet more reliably. Also Evasive purity is a good condi cleanse removing 1 damage and non-damaging condition. He's also using  invigorating bond for the extra boons and healing. Taking Nature magic also increases regeneration strength by 20% which is nice.

Wilderness Survival  1/2/2 - With way he set this up, he has Condi clears on survival skill while providing fury to himself and his pet, on top of that every time he heals he doubles up on the boons for his pet through Nature's magic. When he heals, lesser muddy terrain activates which not only applies non-damaging conditions, but also clears 2 condi's for himself since its counts for a survival skill.  Passive traits give him more Durability through rolling (protection up time) & higher endurance rate, along with protection healing him over time.... essentially a second regeneration boon with Damage reduction. He also took refined toxin which applies poison every 5s, its consistent anti healing on the enemies he's fighting and it does add up if you really look at its functionality.

Druid 3/1/3 - Give you avatar mode, but the biggest thing is all that regen and healing he's applying to himself and his pet activates Live vicariously, which is a another form of healing application, when you heal someone it also heals you... this includes the pet! Finally, typical druid shenanigans, Celestial shadow (invis) & Blood moon (a daze when entering druid form) with the last touches of Eclipse which augments your druid abilities to apply condition.  (this spec has more condi cleanse through blasting light field 3>2 or 2>3 if you are fast enough. )

 

The only weakness this build technically has is that it's vulnerable to extreme CC, especially when stealth and CC breaks are not available. A good baby cage or that one specter well that pulse Daze can really keep a mobile ranger like this in place, the other thing is that even though it has stab on druid 5 ability, it doesn't warren the fact that it can be CC spammed to get rid of it.

Do not take this comment or analysis the wrong way, Celestial druid is very powerful in the right hands and even normal druids as well  can be deadly in the right hands.  All of the druid playstyle do share one weakness in common, it is the fact you can get CC chain to oblivion and not that it is impossible to escape that chain, but you would have your work cut out for it to get out that.

Hope this explanation helps for those who don't play druid.

Quote

----EXTEND ANALYSIS----

His weapon choice in the video

Sword - Great mobility, can leap combo into fire field from torch to gain a fire Aura if desired, can also leap into smoke field from smoke scale for invisibility. Sword 3  has ½ Evades  which can also apply immobilization on any CC or movement impaired foes. Sword 2 does extra damage and sword one is a chain attack that can apply cripple and might to your pet. Sword has some very interesting synergy with their off-hand options from gaining fire aura or setting up Axe 5 multi-hit strike and being an evade monster with Off - Hand Dagger. Reworked sword still is an under-estimated weapon and even thou it lost some of its defensive capability it makes up for its offensive capabilities.  Mobility is the key to get in and get out of fights, and that what sword does in a nutshell.

Torch - Although not a desirable weapon in first sight, its fire damage is still pretty potent and provides a fire field, generally this is a pretty nice weapon for smaller scale fights. It still helps in solo fighting or roaming depending how you kit the play-style of your ranger. It mostly provides offensive capabilities with Aoe attacks. Fire field can provide burning applications through fire aura or projectile/whirl finishers. Blasting in a fire field generates might. That is where this weapon functionality falls where its only a offensive based off-hand with little to zero utilities. With the right setup you can exploit /take advantage with its damage capabilities with its burning applications from 4 and 5, but generally speaking it hard to pull of with opponents that have tons of cleanses or high resistance up time. (Warrior or Guardians are one of the few examples)  Mobility creep, lack of utility and fact its hard to keep people still make this weapon hard to use.

Main hand Axe - A decent range weapons choices, can be focus on condi, power or hybrid builds. In this case he's making the most of it with Celestial as its a very hybrid weapon similarly to Main-Hand Dagger,  its 3 hits the hardest out of all the abilities and provides the most debilitating conditions. Weakness reducing damage by 50% and shutting down crits and reducing Endurance regeneration, Chill which extends the cool down duration and slows you for 66% and to top that off lots of Bleeding.  2 is multi-strike projectile okayish power damage but shines mostly in the bleeding application...  finally Axe 1 provides simple might generation to you and your pet when nature magic is traited.  If a fire Aura is down, you're main hand axe has a 20% to apply burning on your foes this is where torch kinda has a synergy with axe, Pre-Heart of thorns and during heart of thorns, condi trapper rangers were pretty popular and this was a common set to use together.

Off-hand Dagger - Mix of Offensive and Defensive weapon, can also be technically considered hybrid if you take account to stalker Strike 100% damage increase on poison targets, otherwise its mostly a Condi based weapon.  5 is a long range throw, applies damaging condis and cripple, this setup well along side Axe 3 for sword to activate its secondary effects on 2 and 3. 4 is a strong 1¼ evade that strikes harder if the opponent is poisoned.  Some people occasionally pair this with sword as it has that synergy that works off of each other, pushing the evade to total of 1¾ and having dagger 5 set up his 2 and 3.

Combo finishers that available with this weapon set

• Smoke Field
  • Leaping & Blasting gives you Invisibility,  its the bread and butter to Ranger survivability when you are not over reliant on stab. Its pretty necessary in a lot of ranger builds.  Benefits of having stealth allows you to stall for your CD to come back up, otherwise without this you need to rely on mobility mostly to stall for your cool downs to be up. It also allows you kite and mind game your opponent, as long as they don't reveal you.
  • Projectile finishers apply blindness,... its okay but not a priority to do this.
• Fire Field
  • Projectile finishers applies burning from from Axe 1 and dagger 5 and axe 3 its just some extra damage
  • Leaping  activates a Fire Aura, allowing you to generate might and applies burning on enemies that hit you. (Its nice but not crucial to the play style)
  • Blasting gives you 3 stacks of might, in this case his druid 3 ability can do this but its not a priority.

 

Edited March 16 by Oahkahmewolf.6210
Changes to shared anguished analayis to refined toxin. More information on weapon set.

[Zyreva.1078]

6 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Let's be honest, you make up for the torch with your skill, than torch being good.
As for the other things, druid was nerfed but not as hard as ppl think, sword is a preference and Ranger is not weak, just lost some build options.

Torch is a bit bland, but aoe burning is never a bad thing to have, especially on a class that doesn't get a whole lot of burning elsewhere. I have been using it plenty of times over the years and across a variety of builds and specs. I would not use it if it was as bad as people say. And pet nerfs did nerf druid, but trait changes were a straight buff. Sword being stronger now than before is also not a matter of "preference".

4 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

Wilderness Survival  1/3/2

Small correction - i'm not using Shared Anguish or Ambidexterity, but Refined Toxins. Otherwise a pretty accurate post.

Edited March 15 by Zyreva.1078

[Mell.4873]

Torch is both a great burst weapon and area denial that how I have used it in PvP anyway. 

Edited March 15 by Mell.4873

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Torch is a bit bland, but aoe burning is never a bad thing to have, especially on a class that doesn't get a whole lot of burning elsewhere. I have been using it plenty of times over the years and across a variety of builds and specs. I would not use it if it was as bad as people say.

It's not bad, but also not too good. It's kinda hard to explain. (also there is not really an alternative to it)
The aoe works really well for dealing damage, when combined with one of rangers multi-applied roots, that's true. The bigger issue I have is the 4th skill.

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Sword being stronger now than before is also not a matter of "preference".

What I mean is, people mostly complain, because they prefer how the old sword worked (for some reason). Personally I think it's way better, both mechanically and even more so damage wise.
 

[Zyreva.1078]

10 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

The bigger issue I have is the 4th skill.

I like that one too. It's our only source of ranged burning (and aoe too) and therefore a nice addition to the other ranged pressure that mainly consists of bleed and poison.

10 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

What I mean is, people mostly complain, because they prefer how the old sword worked (for some reason).

And what i mean is that certain players used terms like "useless, no defense, can't disengage, can't kite, much worse, etc." to describe the new sword. Which quite obviously is not accurate.

Edited March 16 by Zyreva.1078

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

22 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Small correction - i'm not using Shared Anguish or Ambidexterity, but Refined Toxins. Otherwise a pretty accurate post.

Sorry, I should of noticed. I usually default to SA unironically but yeah my guess would of been refined toxin or the condi trait. I'll make the changes real quick for those who want to understand the setup/playstyle.

Edited March 16 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I think the first two minutes was enough for me--just a bunch of PUG/PvE rangers (and a WB) chasing you on CDs. 

Really though, I mean, at 20s you literally LR right into 3 of them and they do nothing 😂.  Then at 50s you panic kite, use both your CA form and heal--then rush back into them with no heal (or stunbreak) of any sort (literally all your skills are on CD), which tells me you could have just stood there and they still wouldn't have been able to kill you.  

Actually, fast forwarded the video and that's pretty much all it is--no offense, but I thought EU was supposed to be leagues ahead of NA in terms of skill? 

I mean genuinely, like at the end of the vid with the core engi and WB--are those actual players or bots? 

Anyway, if that's the general roaming skill level, then just roll and untamed, body them in about ~30s and leave.  Save you time and video length tbh.  

On 3/15/2024 at 1:58 PM, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

All of the druid playstyle do share one weakness in common, it is the fact you can get CC chain to oblivion and not that it is impossible to escape that chain, but you would have your work cut out for it to get out that.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure those opponents knew what keyboards are let alone CC skills. 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Actually, fast forwarded the video and that's pretty much all it is--no offense, but I thought EU was supposed to be leagues ahead of NA in terms of skill? 

If you look at the time it’s 22+ to after midnight in all scenarios, not exactly prime (especially if much of it is weekdays). EU has a very narrow prime unlike NA with all the timezones.

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Anyway, if that's the general roaming skill level, then just roll and untamed, body them in about ~30s and leave.  Save you time and video length tbh. 

You mean like this? Idk, looks like a pretty big downgrade to me. In every regard.

Overall your post reminds me of those players, who call me a "noob" after i just killed them in an outnumbered fight.

Maybe don't throw stones while sitting inside a glass house? Because it doesn't make you look particulary smart.

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If you look at the time it’s 22+ to after midnight in all scenarios, not exactly prime (especially if much of it is weekdays).

Just means less queues and lag, so the game is actually playable, but people aren't playing any better (or worse) at different times. And there tends to be still plenty of action arround when i play (mostly on weekends).

Edited March 17 by Zyreva.1078

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Just means less queues and lag, so the game is actually playable, but people aren't playing any better (or worse) at different times. And there tends to be still plenty of action arround when i play (mostly on weekends).

Still plenty of action perhaps, but most people - which inludes most good people - will run “normal” hours, not at night. You are far more likely to run into “difficult” roamers just before prime as they start to gather or at prime. 

Just saying. Ultimately it’s pretty random, I’ve faced worlds with near zero small groups offering much resistance and worlds where a 2-man guild dominate a map for hours because no one can fight them.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Still plenty of action perhaps, but most people - which inludes most good people - will run “normal” hours, not at night. You are far more likely to run into “difficult” roamers just before prime as they start to gather or at prime.

Doesn't really match my experience. Like sure, statistically speaking there are likely more good players arround when the overall player count is higher. But at the same time there will also be more bad ones, so there's always enough "montage material" and the only thing that would be a potential hindrance is lag. In the end good players are a small minority at any given time (and i've likely run into most of them on EU at some point, at least it would be surprising if there was a large amount of good players who only play from early morning to early afternoon, and that's pretty much the only timeframe i basically never played) and like you said, it's kinda random what sort of opponents you actually run into, tho a player also has some control over their encounters (it's no coincidence that i love north camp 😉 ).

Edited March 17 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

You mean like this? Idk, looks like a pretty big downgrade to me. In every regard.

Maybe don't throw stones while sitting inside a glass house? Because it doesn't make you look particulary smart.

I'm not sure that house is glass my dude, you've obviously never met a guild like QQ if you think those roamers are bad.  

Firstly, I don't post outnumbered meme montages as they are too easy to call out for what they are--beating up on low skill players.  I do have outnumbered in some of my vids, but usually no more than a 2v1..maybe 3v1? As after that it gets into the former territory of just beating up on ppl that don't know what a keyboard is.  

So, in that light, all of those fights on my vid (besides EBG at the end) are 1v1s on a non-cele condi untamed.  Only Druid footage in there is the QQ one as I had to use a build I'm familiar with actual sPvP on because of the fact they are generally quite skilled.  Even that isn't cele though as I think cele for Druid is sub-optimal personally.

But yeah, thanks for the views!

Edited March 17 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Zyreva.1078]

All of those players in your linked video are exactly the same sort of players as in my video. Difference is that i fight multiple of them at the same time, because 1vs1 would be way too easy.

First you fight what you call a "PvE ranger", then a DH who spends most of the time backpeddaling and autoattacking with some completely random skills inbetween, missing most of them completely. Then a strength spb (bad outdated build) who dies to 2x ambush. Followed by a nade scrapper who doesn't know how to kite and throw nades at the same time, still almost killed you, might have won without guards helping you. Then you are ganking players 4vs2. Then another strength spb (has NA not updated builds for the last 2-3 years?) who just sits there and facetanks your CA5 trying to 100b you. Doesn't run tether. Or a proper heal skill. Not a single good player, nor a single strong build shown.

At least i'm not pretending anyone of my opponents is a a good player (tho at least some of them have cleanses), and that's why i fight multiple of them. Good 1v1 are pretty much impossible in this current meta unless both players agree to handicap themselves and play a bad build. But i don't like changing builds just for dueling, so it's either me on cele vs non cele, which puts me at too much of an advantage that even better players than me end up having a hard time or it's a boring cele vs cele slugfest which nobody enjoys.

Edited March 17 by Zyreva.1078

[Beddo.1907]

The easiest way to see who's right, is a 1v1.
Just saying.

[Zyreva.1078]

1 minute ago, Beddo.1907 said:

The easiest way to see who's right, is a 1v1.
Just saying.

You want to pay for the transfers?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

All of those players in your linked video are exactly the same sort of players as in my video. Difference is that i fight multiple of them at the same time, because 1vs1 would be way too easy.

The other difference is you cherry picked it to deflect from my original argument, and my vid is what a merciful 6 minutes instead of almost 20.  Your last vids are also 7 years ago so no other references to go by here.

15 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

The easiest way to see who's right, is a 1v1.
Just saying.

This already happened on the forums once before, Trev had some unkillable Druid build a few years ago and even after 1v1 duels in WvW arena no one could come to any conclusion.

There is no 'right' here, but from my perspective OP just utterly deflected from a bunker cele build to a condi untamed build and decided to compare which players we kill are more bot like.  

If OP want fair comparison, then run a Dire condi untamed and do some roaming.  Don't know what else to say here because of all my vids they pick the one I'm primarily NOT playing Druid 😂.

[Zyreva.1078]

54 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The other difference is you cherry picked it to deflect from my original argument, and my vid is what a merciful 6 minutes instead of almost 20.  Your last vids are also 7 years ago so no other references to go by here.

I just picked your most recent WvW video, didn't go through all the others in an attempt to find the worst one if that's what you want to imply. But you are  trying to bad-mouth my video because of my opponents skill level and i wanted to show you, that that's what can be seen in like 99% of WvW videos including your very own, with the difference that most only show 1vs1-2. Hence the glasshouse comment. If you think you've got something better to show, feel free to post it here, i don't mind.

And i don't see how video lenght or upload frequency have any relevancy? I could have made it 2 hours long if i wanted to, got enough material, or make many 5-10 min clips and release 1 every week. But since i don't intend on uploading regulary, i just picked the for me most reasonable middleground. Don't like it? Don't watch it.

54 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If OP want fair comparison, then run a Dire condi untamed and do some roaming.  Don't know what else to say here because of all my vids they pick the one I'm primarily NOT playing Druid 😂.

Idk why i should play a bad build? It might make my opponents look better, but won't magically make them better players, so what's the point?

And again, feel free to post your own druid clips if you want.

Edited March 17 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

29 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Idk why i should play a bad build? It might make my opponents look better, but won't magically make them better players, so what's the point?

I think we are going in circles here from you not being able to handle my original critique--so I will leave it at, it's 17 minutes of cele torch druid.  You might like it, but to call that a 'good build' is a stretch.

If 'good' means it works on EU, then sure.  But otherwise, it's about as bunker as you can get (with two forms of stealth) and still make a roaming vid out of it.  

You may say 'don't like it, don't watch it', but you posted it up on forums. 

Maybe being a little less defensive would help, as you've fought with literally everyone that posted a critique here and spun their opinions to fit your definition of 'good'.

An example:

On 3/15/2024 at 8:50 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

It's not bad, but also not too good. It's kinda hard to explain. (also there is not really an alternative to it)
The aoe works really well for dealing damage, when combined with one of rangers multi-applied roots, that's true. The bigger issue I have is the 4th skill.

 

On 3/16/2024 at 7:09 AM, Zyreva.1078 said:

I like that one too. It's our only source of ranged burning (and aoe too) and therefore a nice addition to the other ranged pressure that mainly consists of bleed and poison.

Saying this when #4 is a projectile that can be reflected, blocked, blinded, dodged, etc. etc.  To hit anyone with it means that they obviously are less skilled at the game then you because it is genuinely a terribly outdated weapon for current meta.  Which is ironic as you are dogging random spellbreakers in my vids for using 'years old builds' and posting up torch like it's a revolution.

Anyway, I just happened to be the bluntest of the bunch with my critiques, but that's probably why you had to go dig for a WvW vid to strawman as it's kinda hard to spin asking if the players you fight are bots.  

[Zyreva.1078]

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You might like it, but to call that a 'good build' is a stretch.

Well, either the build is very good, or i'm a very good player, as bad player on a bad build wouldn't be doing quite as well. But a good player typically also knows whether a build is good or bad. Since i'm far from a perfect player and still get away just fine with all the mistakes i make, i don't see a way arround labeling the build at least "good". Otherwise something just doesn't match.

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If 'good' means it works on EU, then sure.

And it works just as well on NA. Come on, nobody can seriously believe NA has better players. There is absolutely zero indication for that.

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You may say 'don't like it, don't watch it', but you posted it up on forums.

And that totally forces everyone to watch the entire video, right ...

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Saying this when #4 is a projectile that can be reflected, blocked, blinded, dodged, etc. etc.  To hit anyone with it means that they obviously are less skilled at the game then you because it is genuinely a terribly outdated weapon for current meta.

You just described the entirety of your beloved shortbow as well as many other skills/weapons that see play regulary. Just saying ...

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

posting up torch like it's a revolution.

I'm hardly talking about a "revolution. Just about a weapon that happens to fit the current meta quite well and can fill some gaps in the ranger's kit.

Edited March 18 by Zyreva.1078

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

Actually believe it or not, statically from information gathered. EU pop plays more Rangers then NA, though this is coming from people who Spvp and WvW down to the core (as in super competitive). You can take this information as it is, but when taking this info you'd think people have ways to properly deal with rangers in EU @Zyreva.1078, I'm more asking for based on experience on what's EU server like, not trying to come off rude with the comment but rather more interested if that information is accurate. NA ranger population community isn't relativity huge in NA side but again this is what I was told personally from multiple people.  People can correct me if I am wrong with this info.

Edited March 18 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Zyreva.1078]

53 minutes ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

Actually believe it or not, statically from information gathered. EU pop plays more Rangers then NA, though this is coming from people who Spvp and WvW down to the core (as in super competitive). You can take this information as it is, but when taking this info you'd think people have ways to properly deal with rangers in EU @Zyreva.1078, I'm more asking for based on experience on what's EU server like, not trying to come off rude with the comment but rather more interested if that information is accurate. NA ranger population community isn't relativity huge in NA side but again this is what I was told personally from multiple people.  People can correct me if I am wrong with this info.

Not sure if i understand your question fully, but I don't know if there are more rangers on EU or NA and i don't think any player really knows. Not even sure if that information is aviable on gw2 efficiency, but even then it would only cover a portion of the playerbase over a fairly long period of time and all game modes, so no reliable data about the current number of ranger activity in WvW. Only anet knows and i'm not aware that they have posted any information about that.But regadless of how the actual numbers look like, i don't think the difference is big enough to have a noticeable impact on our game experience.

So i wouldn't say ranger is rare in WvW on EU (mostly common is some sort of lb slb. but some other builds are played too), but NA doesn't seem any different based on my very tiny little bit of playtime there.

I think people overestimate region differences. In the end it's just humans playing (for the most part anyway, maybe there are still some bots arround, but i think you get my point).

Edited March 18 by Zyreva.1078

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

32 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

so no reliable data

Fair enough, It more less a curiosity that peaked my interest. Some EU players occasionally transfer to NA and just fight people in Spvp and WvW so thats as much info I got from them about EU.

My apologies if If the question wasn't direct or concise, despite having an okayish vocabulary, unironically english is not my primary language.

More n Less asides from LB Soulbeast Rangers, how often do you see a ranger roaming around by itself or in a small group of people opposed to a competitive group? In NA most range roamers I come across fashion ether Staff and Sword/Warhorn or Soulbeast with 2 sets of condition based weapons, but they're kinda surprisingly rare compared to Harbenginers, Willbenders, warriors and engineers ... atleast for WvW.

If you ever do one day come over to NA, we should duels some time. I'd be interested to see in person how far that build can with a skillful person in mind.

[AlphaReborn.1567]

I think you guys are both great and do great things!