[POLL] Siege Damage Questions

[TheGrimm.5624]

Since we seem to be getting changes outside of the WR we seem to be back into what comes next grounds so I figure with the increases to time to take (TTK) its a fair time to address the defending side, so a little poll to see the various regions and what they are seeing on the defense sides. Got on prime time last night to find all three of our keeps controlled by the other sides and spent an hour and half setting what in tourny days would be considered a light defense to try and keep at least garri as the other keeps flipped back and fourth mostly before they could event make T1.

[joneirikb.7506]

I think it's a little too nuanced to really answer in as black and white poll as that. I think all 3 things are "buttons and levers" that ANet could push around with in order to help the siege game vs the blob game. I've mentioned in the past that Siege is something unique to WvW, and thus it's in an unique position to being used by the devs as ways to fix issues that they have with WvW (balance, variety of strategies, something they can change to rapidly adapt to meta changes etc). Naturally, they don't, but that's another issue entirely.

I think my most common example is giving the Arrow Cart a purpose again, giving its skill 1 a multiplier on damage per target it hits. And one of its other skills a decent boon-rip (like 5 or so). Adjust as needed. And they could have fairly easily have solved the entire boon-ball meta in WvW without touching any other mode. Naturally, they don't.

But part of that is that those functions serves as buttons and levers, so I wouldn't want to say "yes, they got to up the damage of siege against both siege and players, and rip boons!" because all of those are things that should be placed strategically around on specific skills etc.

tldr: blaah blaah, it depends.

[MedievalThings.5417]

Sadly, the only thing that will happen is Anet will suddenly realize that the first cannon trait, in ranks and abilities, removes boons.  They will in record time rectify that grave oversight, and while telling the players they are buffing the trait, their buff will be "no longer removes boons and does 25% less damage to players".  You might ask "where is the buff?", to which Anet will reply "we let you keep cannons".

Edited March 22 by MedievalThings.5417

[Ronin.4501]

And based on both the current results of this poll and Anet's track record of giving the players what they want over the past 2-3 years we'll get...

-Increased siege damage vs ambient creatures

-A new type of siege that does absolutely nothing except generate a lot of flashing lights and increases lag for everyone within a 10,000m range

[TexZero.7910]

Why not.

After the last set of changes i'm game for almost anything since it can't get much worse.

[Gorani.7205]

Explaining my thoughts

1.) Ballistae do OK damage vs. other siege, but they have a problem hitting "wall hugger catas"; Therefore ACs should do more damage and perhaps Canons and Mortar burning fields (which are a way to bypass too many bubbles).

2.) Cata scatter shot needs to do vastly more damage vs. players and ACs need way more damage too. Canons should get a 20% increase and an evaluation on whether that is enough or not.

3.) Canon #3 needs its CD reduced to 10 sec, so you can build up some pressure with #3 /#1 /#2 /#1 combos; Ballista #3 needs to have its CD halved and #4 needs to have its CD halved, when it bounces to hit three or more targets. I also think that it does no reliably dismount players from warclaws, perhaps because of the interaction with Aegis (?)

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

I think it's a little too nuanced to really answer in as black and white poll as that. I think all 3 things are "buttons and levers" that ANet could push around with in order to help the siege game vs the blob game. I've mentioned in the past that Siege is something unique to WvW, and thus it's in an unique position to being used by the devs as ways to fix issues that they have with WvW (balance, variety of strategies, something they can change to rapidly adapt to meta changes etc). Naturally, they don't, but that's another issue entirely.

I think my most common example is giving the Arrow Cart a purpose again, giving its skill 1 a multiplier on damage per target it hits. And one of its other skills a decent boon-rip (like 5 or so). Adjust as needed. And they could have fairly easily have solved the entire boon-ball meta in WvW without touching any other mode. Naturally, they don't.

But part of that is that those functions serves as buttons and levers, so I wouldn't want to say "yes, they got to up the damage of siege against both siege and players, and rip boons!" because all of those are things that should be placed strategically around on specific skills etc.

tldr: blaah blaah, it depends.

I admit I started more in tones of grey to better gauge is it me and map chat or is there something more out there especially after the disable/disruptor change and wanted to leave an open option of does siege need love. Or do we need more trick/traps that can be deployed. Still pondering ideas on powder kegs that could be deployed at 15 supply that could be lightly used on walls, higher damage on enemy siege and could have a fairly large player knockback range. But first the question was should siege be reviewed with existing game mechanics already in place.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ballistas are fine,  and Catas are whatever.

The main problem is arrow carts. They can't even do anything to small groups of 5.  The dumbest thing is a pew pew ranger on an arrow cart because the ranger does more damage.

They should make the poison volley like 15  seconds and have crippling arrows be the default. Then at least people will not want to stand in them.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Ballistas are fine,  and Catas are whatever.

The main problem is arrow carts. They can't even do anything to small groups of 5.  The dumbest thing is a pew pew ranger on an arrow cart because the ranger does more damage.

They should make the poison volley like 15  seconds and have crippling arrows be the default. Then at least people will not want to stand in them.

🙂 Typed this three times and questioned myself 3 times so it tells me a 3:30 AM reply is too long or too short lol. Let me return to this after I seek sleep my friend. ADHD for the loss lol. Short answer for now since the poll has limits is I think a lot of siege could use adjustment and love on various aspects. 🙂 

[Firefly.5982]

As a mostly solo/small scale roamer: I don't want even more siege damage on solo players or tiny groups. Playing small scale is hard enough with defensive siege 🙂 Except maybe arrow carts, I think a little boost there is fine even for small groups. What I do think makes sense is to scale damage with amount of players hit - so that siege actually tickles zergs.

Edited March 24 by Firefly.5982

[TheGrimm.5624]

16 hours ago, Firefly.5982 said:

As a mostly solo/small scale roamer: I don't want even more siege damage on solo players or tiny groups. Playing small scale is hard enough with defensive siege 🙂 Except maybe arrow carts, I think a little boost there is fine even for small groups. What I do think makes sense is to scale damage with amount of players hit - so that siege actually tickles zergs.

I think the irony here was small scale was not complaining about siege damage prior to the siege nerfs since they were already more defensive built. But large scale that weren't was where the complaints came from. The changes I question would impact small scale less but help balance small versus large when defending. Small scale already stood in AC fire per nerf. 

[Firefly.5982]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I think the irony here was small scale was not complaining about siege damage prior to the siege nerfs since they were already more defensive built. But large scale that weren't was where the complaints came from. The changes I question would impact small scale less but help balance small versus large when defending. Small scale already stood in AC fire per nerf. 

Siege definitely needs love. Everything in Wvw does 😞 And I absolutely agree with regards to small scale defending - I often don't even bother because I know there's no point for me and maybe one other person to build siege against a boon blob, so I just go kill strays, runbacks and whatnot. I would love to see changes to siege that properly scale with number of players. I just almost don't dare ask for that though because knowing Anet, we MAY get increased siege damage but what are the chances we'll get properly scaled damage?

So please Anet, give siege some love, give us properly scaled siege damage, do a general rework of cooldowns, effects like boonstrip and everything others have already said - but PLEASE don't 'adjust' siege to insta kill roamers 🤣

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:32 AM, Firefly.5982 said:

Siege definitely needs love. Everything in Wvw does 😞 And I absolutely agree with regards to small scale defending - I often don't even bother because I know there's no point for me and maybe one other person to build siege against a boon blob, so I just go kill strays, runbacks and whatnot. I would love to see changes to siege that properly scale with number of players. I just almost don't dare ask for that though because knowing Anet, we MAY get increased siege damage but what are the chances we'll get properly scaled damage?

So please Anet, give siege some love, give us properly scaled siege damage, do a general rework of cooldowns, effects like boonstrip and everything others have already said - but PLEASE don't 'adjust' siege to insta kill roamers 🤣

Scaling might also be handled by looking at restrictions that were put in place prior to the current state. Also adding the boon strip might help as well. But agree there is always a factor of careful what you wish for and if it was heard as meant versus interpeptide in a different way.