Warrior solution (Staff)

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

he stopped playing ele, went to staff spb and is now doing far better

HII!!!!

traded the experience of playing ele for THOUSANDS of hours(mainly FAWeaver and SignetTempest), against some warriorbuild from metabattle and i am performing alot better, while playing worse.

There is simply alot of room for mistakes.  So much room, that alot of the time,  hogging your enemy and hammering your skills like youre having a seizure will give you better results than playing your main. 

AND I AM TALKING: Stunning someone and then pressing fullcounter while he is knocked down.... that kinda gameplay...    AND I WAS WINNING 1v1´s like this, which i lost 5 minutes earlier on my longtime elebuilds.

It simply feels off. 😕

Edited April 11 by Sahne.6950

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

*cough* Almost every sidenode contender is heavily dependant on green numbers, thus this change is completly senseless, if a shakeup of the sidenoder meta is something you want to achieve. All it will do is buff thief and ranger into oblivion *cough*   

sry.... that was a big cough.   i think i caught a cold or sumthin.

🤣

[Shagie.7612]

Given that they've all but confirmed warrior's going to see trait changes to further assist a support warrior playstyle, I think it's pretty likely staff sees nerfs that are offset via said changes for support builds.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Given that they've all but confirmed warrior's going to see trait changes to further assist a support warrior playstyle, I think it's pretty likely staff sees nerfs that are offset via said changes for support builds.

That is important to remember. Warrior has long needed proper support traits, Staff in this iteration is just a stop gap until that happens.

[Endo.1652]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

HII!!!!

traded the experience of playing ele for THOUSANDS of hours(mainly FAWeaver and SignetTempest), against some warriorbuild from metabattle and i am performing alot better, while playing worse.

There is simply alot of room for mistakes.  So much room, that alot of the time,  hogging your enemy and hammering your skills like youre having a seizure will give you better results than playing your main. 

AND I AM TALKING: Stunning someone and then pressing fullcounter while he is knocked down.... that kinda gameplay...    AND I WAS WINNING 1v1´s like this, which i lost 5 minutes earlier on my longtime elebuilds.

It simply feels off. 😕

What if you played a meta ele builds though? Would you do better than your home brewed ones?

[Flowki.7194]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

HII!!!!

traded the experience of playing ele for THOUSANDS of hours(mainly FAWeaver and SignetTempest), against some warriorbuild from metabattle and i am performing alot better, while playing worse.

There is simply alot of room for mistakes.  So much room, that alot of the time,  hogging your enemy and hammering your skills like youre having a seizure will give you better results than playing your main. 

AND I AM TALKING: Stunning someone and then pressing fullcounter while he is knocked down.... that kinda gameplay...    AND I WAS WINNING 1v1´s like this, which i lost 5 minutes earlier on my longtime elebuilds.

It simply feels off. 😕

This was my experiance with blade for the first hour. I read the tooltips, practiced on lord a little, but really didn't have that situational muscle memory you know? All I knew is spam might = good, and nion every ability directly or indirectly gave healing/barrier, yet that same day is when I won a 1v2, comfortably. On the second day of playing it I had a lot more understanding of the actual abilitys, and what/when to use, I came up against an average level hammer cata on far, and absolutely destroyed him, like, he didnt even hit me once outside of aoe. And that was when I realised I had been a fool for playing a complex spec in this game, becuase put me back on hammer cata, vs a true g3/p1 level player on a simple spec.. it aint worth the effort. Honestly, I think I had played hammer cata for over 6 month by then, and had not came close to taking on 1v2s even of avg level players, and even after that, to this date, I don't take on 1v2s as any form of ele, the skill gap has to be HUGE, like p1 vs g1-s3.

 

I also know this to be true becuase on core condi rev (moderate difficulty) I was very competitive with and killing vet or p1+ scetper catas/weavers and condi tempests. This isn't meant to be a rant about ele, but the class has truly been destroyed, evidenced by the fact a core condi rev build can farm it, including hammer cata, if you just kite it, but I could also toe to toe it easily if they were below p1, which is the same with power heralds (And im not P1+). In comparison, every average level WB, SPB, DH, Druid, and SLB are a serious threat or massive time waste. Thieves also.

 

1 hour ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

What if you played a meta ele builds though? Would you do better than your home brewed ones?

Meta status has nothing to do with spec difficulty (sadly), only spec effectiveness. At that, the wide MMR ranges and random team comps mean meta builds are not always optimal. Hammer cata was still down as being meta for months, when every hammer cata knew it was completely lacking in the new mobility meta, it was not optimal solo que (can't speak for MATS etc). Staff tempest was the same, in meta, but nion useless as solo Q with wide MMR, as you can't carry vastly outskilled DPS. There are many other classes/meta builds that suffer in this way.

 

Badly designed specs like SPB are only part of the problem, the shockingly wide MMR is the main problem, as it completely oppresses solo que as full support (low pop), and in turn, affects many group fight specs that depend on team work/support. For example, hammer cata can be devistating in group fights with a good support, which would give you an alternative option to going up against SPB/druids on sides.

Edited April 11 by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Meta status has nothing to do with spec difficulty (sadly), only spec effectiveness. At that, the wide MMR ranges and random team comps mean meta builds are not always optimal. Hammer cata was still down as being meta for months, when every hammer cata knew it was completely lacking in the new mobility meta, it was not optimal solo que (can't speak for MATS etc). Staff tempest was the same, in meta, but nion useless as solo Q with wide MMR, as you can't carry vastly outskilled DPS. There are many other classes/meta builds that suffer in this way.

 

Badly designed specs like SPB are only part of the problem, the shockingly wide MMR is the main problem, as it completely oppresses solo que as full support (low pop), and in turn, affects many group fight specs that depend on team work/support. For example, hammer cata can be devistating in group fights with a good support.

I think you missed my point. Its more credible to say something is much easier and forgiving when you also can compare it to your class' most meta spec that also fits the same role as spellbreaker. Otherwise i might as well say soulbeast is more forgiving ever since i swapped over from only playing a full glass core power mesmer.

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 the thing with the typical warrior is ..... its easy to Play but hard to master :p. Thats what warr was always standing for ......  tho right now when it comes to staff spell its too unforgiving sooo a nerf is indeed needed. But not for the spec in itself since (again) Spellbraker in itself is not the Problem...... its just staff xd

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

I think you missed my point. Its more credible to say something is much easier and forgiving when you also can compare it to your class' most meta spec that also fits the same role as spellbreaker. Otherwise i might as well say soulbeast is more forgiving ever since i swapped over from only playing a full glass core power mesmer.

No I think you are missing the point. Meta status has nothing to do with spec difficulty, that is why some of the most easy specs in the game, and some of the most hardest can be in meta at the same time. With that, mechanical difficulty is strongly connected to spec punishment, as in, the mechanically easier specs are more reliable = less punishing for mistakes. That means, an ele main of almost any ele spec can say, with confidence, that SPB is an easier spec. Power untamed could say the same about SPB, as could power mirage. Thief is the exception, it "appears" to be a mechanically difficult class, but it isnt, and its cheap stealth/mobility options also make it incredibly low risk the second you understand how to abuse it. It does take high game sense, I can concede that, and it has engagement limitations.

Edited April 11 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

11 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 the thing with the typical warrior is ..... its easy to Play but hard to master :p. Thats what warr was always standing for ......  tho right now when it comes to staff spell its too unforgiving sooo a nerf is indeed needed. But not for the spec in itself since (again) Spellbraker in itself is not the Problem...... its just staff xd

When something is as easy and effective @low skill input as SPB is now, you don't need to master it 😜 Condi cata was EXACTLY the same in that regard.  It only makes the situation worse when you consider many vet warriors have.

 

Specs like that will litterally carry a player into g3/p1, people who may never have gotten there in the past on a more difficult spec that requires some actual dedication to unlock its effectiveness. Not bad for "easy and effective".

Edited April 11 by Flowki.7194

[Marxx.5021]

There is no propper balancing for PvP. Why would it when the game mode died 7 years ago. The only real complain is introducing more and more overpowered BS making competitive games even worse.

[Frequency.6407]

Meanwhile ele tryhards

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Meanwhile ele tryhards

 

I felt the sweat through my computer screen.

[Endo.1652]

 

11 minutes ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Meanwhile ele tryhards

 

I seen a rock dog. This is old AF

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 in other words you telling me that im Just Bad at the game kekw. 

You know that you can actually play around the e-specs mechanic right? And you know its the only e-spec with exactly this issue right? If you struggle against every spellbreaker build (well not the staff one meant Here) maybe its just a you Problem? I for myself have no Problem against any warr aside the current staff build cause i simply know how to Play around full counter xd. 

Holy okay this got more intensive than i want it to be. But yea as i said maybe you wana learn how to fight against spellbreakers ^~^

[arazoth.7290]

20 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 in other words you telling me that I have to buy free popcorn for 2 gold from Arazoth to not be bad at the game kekw?

 

Yes, I am selling free popcorn 🍿 for 2 gold, it's sales season

[Myror.7521]

@arazoth.7290 xD good try sir! xd

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 in other words you telling me that im Just Bad at the game kekw. 

You know that you can actually play around the e-specs mechanic right? And you know its the only e-spec with exactly this issue right? If you struggle against every spellbreaker build (well not the staff one meant Here) maybe its just a you Problem? I for myself have no Problem against any warr aside the current staff build cause i simply know how to Play around full counter xd. 

Holy okay this got more intensive than i want it to be. But yea as i said maybe you wana learn how to fight against spellbreakers ^~^

You have took my post very personal, which was your doing, as I never once directed it at you personaly. You then direct attacks toward me, despite that nothing I have said about warrior is false, and is beyound personal skill levels. It is objectively easier to do well at average skill level on a easy spec that has had its numbers buffed to the point it is highly rewarding. Prior to staff, SPB was still annoying in the fact its sustain/CC output does not reflect its skill input at average level. It was the same as DH, you can work around it.. but the work around requires more effort than what the average DH/SPB was doing to make you engage that work around. Don't get personal, it isn't helpful.

Edited April 11 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

nother day nother thinly veiled catalyst was fine please re-buff me post

[Frequency.6407]

9 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

nother day nother thinly veiled catalyst was fine please re-buff me post

Which catalyst? Hammer, signet, FA, scepter condi, D/D?

[Shagie.7612]

27 minutes ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Which catalyst? Hammer, signet, FA, scepter condi, D/D?

all of em cus they were super hard duh

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

its easy to Play but hard to master 😛

Correct me if i am wrong, but there is just 3 "techs" you need to master.

 

1) Trigger discipline.       Dont blow your hardhitters or stuns into blocks/aegis.      <- This skill comes with the baseline package of "i wanna play FA Ele remotely effective".

2) Setting up bursts.  Make it muscle memory to dodge before attempting a burst against someone that has alot of blinds and Weakness on demand, cuz hes defo gonna use it on you, if he sees a stun coming.  I simply play the engagement slow. i dont engage. Rather i dodge one of his important skills and then instantly turn the engagement into my favor, by beginning my own burst that ignores weakness/blind  <- Daredevil HAS to do this ALL the time to not hit like a noodle and die with 2 hits.

3) Weapon stowing.  Turning your biggest weakness, into your biggest strength, Use weaponstowing to bait out dodges, which you then use to snowball into a kill.   <-  Baseline skill from playing literally any build ive ever played.

All of those things are considered the bare minimum to get most builds working.

 

This might be controversial to hear for you.  But warrior is all around a very simple and straight forward class at all levels of play.

Yes you might say, that good player will dodge telegraphed attacks, which warrior has alot of.... spoiler alert.... alot of professions do! Its not just something warrior has to deal with. (besides necro marks and ele sceptre air skills... those things are obnoxious)

I know there is a few tips and tricks to playing warrior, but if youve played alot of holo/ele, or any kind of fast paced roamer, you feel like playing a diffrent game, just because of how mechanically easy and straightforward it really is.

 

compare it to the mechanical difficulty of things like hammercata for example.   you know what you gotta do to heal?   its a 9 button wombocombo, that you need to do in perfection, otherwise your healing plummets, while you also need to keep an eye out for the respective attunements to be ready in the first place, and then you also need to deal with your opponent that is on your kitten trying to stop you from pressing those 9 buttons.

 

You overheat on holo ONCE, and you are LITERALLY FRYING YOURSELF.   

A Druids pet dies, and thats a literal Deathsentence.

A revenant pressed a wrong button and dared to go below 40 energy, while being stuck on shiro.... well.... he´s dead.

 

The easiness of Warrior comes in the form of you... not having a "okey i die now"-type of mechanic that you have to nail down in order to be good.  There is just no such things.   Alot of other builds have that..... And thats what makes them hard to master.   Cuz even playing good, atiny mistakes can end your life.

There is techs to be a better warrior, and you definitely can tell apart good and bad warriors.   But these "techs" are widely used by other profession aswell and are often the bare minimum to be able to play these.  Its not something that only warriors have to deal with. 

Its totally fine to play warrior. Absolutely no hate.  But pretending that its in any way shape or form remotely difficult to play or master is just blasphemy. 😄

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

play around the e-specs mechanic right? And you know its the only e-spec with exactly this issue right?

broooooo  xD no its not the only profession whose espec mechanic you can be actively use against them!   

think about it....   things like: 

using the rangers pet to procc your fullcounter?

 kiting reapers that go in shroud?

 forced movement thanks to mirage mirrors.?

tempests having to channel a 4 second Casttime in order to acces their sustain?

killing ranger pets in order to render them useless?

Spinning around your mouse when a Daredevil tries to backstab you, or literally standing with the back to the wall, leading to a 600 noodle hit and 4 seconds of reveal

want me to continue?          Alot of builds have glaring weaknesses in their kit, that can be heavily abused. its not just SPB.

And ontop of that:

"playing around spellbreakers mechanic" literally means   "dont hit fullcounter", which is often times not really possible, when the warrior is using fullcounter reactive, or you are playing things like any derivate of mesmer, hammercata, fireweaver, or just about anything with pulsing aoe´s, or AI attached to the kit.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Lucentfir.7430]

9 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i dont think soo.  Its easy to play, and easy to master.

Correct me if i am wrong, but there is just 3 "techs" you need to master.

 

1) Trigger discipline.       Dont blow your hardhitters or stuns into blocks/aegis.      <- This skill comes with the baseline package of "i wanna play FA Ele remotely effective".

2) Setting up bursts.  Make it muscle memory to dodge before attempting a burst against someone that has alot of blinds and Weakness.  I simply wait out the engagement, dodge one of his important skills and then instantly turn the engagement into my favor, by beginning my own burst that ignore weaknes/blind  <- Daredevil HAS to do this ALL the time to not hit like a noodle (weakness). Its literally muscle memory for me.

3) Weapon stowing.  Abusing your obvious animations, to bait out dodges, which you then use to snowball into a kill.   <-  Baseline skill from playing literally any profession.

 

All of those things are considered the bare minimum to get certain builds working.... for Warrior... its the pinacle of mechanical difficulty.    Even if you blow things into blocks... you still have a chance to win.   Even if you dont weaponstow anything, your low cooldowns will eventually deplete the enemys sustain.

 

This might be controversial to hear for you.  But warrior is all around a very simple and straight forward class.  I know there is a few tips and tricks, but if youve played alot of holo/ele, or any kind of fast paced roamer, you feel like playing a diffrent game, just because of how easy and straightforward it really is.

You're forgetting the innate jump dodge tech ingrained into every warrrior main(joke)
Jump + Breaching Strike/Aura Slicer timing for a little extra distance
Magebane Pull combo-ing via Rush Retargeting/Pull into CC Skill timing and distance gauging 

It's simple to play and hard to master in practice against better players that know your class or familiar with warrior and its combos. Even at higher level of Warrior skill sometimes the feeling is you'd probably be more impactful on another class that has more versatile options or just higher reliable damage. Warrior has more hoops to jump through to get meaningful results since all the damage is tied to its setups, reactable setups, entirely in melee, pre-staff implementation, and no I'm not talking about Bladesworn, or condi zerker. Condi zerker specifically gave me  flashbacks of HoT era ranked Berserker tyranny. 

[Sahne.6950]

36 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Jump + Breaching Strike/Aura Slicer timing for a little extra distance
Magebane Pull combo-ing via Rush Retargeting/Pull into CC Skill timing and distance gauging 

Things like pulling with magebane....like....  its literally a matter of pressing the Staff 3 behind you.  and then greeting your enemy with another CC to get your roflcombo going.  

Arent these things pretty basic?    Isnt that baseline how you play? I see chain. i leap behind.  me profit.   

  you absolutely dont need to do the rush trick.... infact, you dont even run greatsword anymore. And  if you would run it, or simply do it with bullscharge, then its a matter of pressing tap, the second you see he got pulled.    Is that challenging?  or is it very convenient, that you can retarget midjump?    Ele cant do this for example.   i wish we could... but we cant.

Same for the Breachingstrike jump trick.   Absolutely no need for that.     Its about holding tiny nodes, which you can completly cover with the baseline Breachingstrike.    (Have never used it.... but dont you just press jump and breachingstrike together? maybe jump like 0.1 seconds before breachingstrike? just how you jumpdodge?)

 

I know i am kind of ranting, sorry for that....

... maybe i should rephrase it.     The skill level you need, to be ontop of 95% of players, is very easy to reach.   You can evolve beyond that, but at the current performance level of warrior its is absolutely not needed to go beyond basic mechanics.  They are more than enough, to beat anything thats not a warrior himself, or one of the 2 good daredevils that are left.       Mechanical finesse only really shines, when you are having a mirrormatch between good warriors. Everything else is pretty easy to beat with a basic understanding of the class.

Atleast thats how i feel about it.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950