Jade Tech Offensive & Defensive Overcharge Timers Incorrect & Excessive [Merged]

[Phazon.3975]

4 hours ago, Sunset.2895 said:

This feature have been part of the game for more than 2 years now and you cannot simply remove it with ease without informing us in advance. And I said remove because that's literally what you've done with this change. Using your logic, why you don't remove mounts and disabled gliding so that we can experience the game as it was back in 2012? 

"Feature."So you are telling me nothing was ever remotely weird about having only one of either protocol clearly demonstrating that they had an internal cooldown to boon application, but when you had both there wasn't any? The patch notes clearly revealed that it was bugged. I will chuckle at the "not bugs, features" joke every so often someone brings it up, but I think that is now being taken too literally.

Some bugs, unfortunately, took years to fix. So does that mean that Ranger pet crit chances were never bugged and were an actual "feature" because they were bugged for years? And pets were bugged for how many years exactly? They barely fixed them a couple of years ago. I guess we should just go back and "fix" that too. Look, I get that players had fun roleplaying "Pressing One: A 2022 Mechanist's Story" on all their classes with the previous jade protocols, but we are being selective now on what is a "bug" and what is an "intended feature".

I will say that it was never 100% obvious how Jade Protocols were supposed to work and it should have been made more clear. The patch notes should also have specified that it had been a bug too, so they missed the mark there.

The ACTUAL nerf was overkill and needs to be toned down. But do I still think it was overpowered when it was bugged? Absolutely. Heck, I would always joke about EoD being a "P2W" expansion to players because of the protocols, which players often haven't even tried out to my surprise. Adding extra stats to the protocols, reducing the boon application cooldown to 45 seconds, and reducing EoD/SoTO enemy health pools should balance things out and keep them relevant without making any other build that's not "Power Berserker's Stats" trivial.

(I apologize for all my very long posts btw. It's a curse. And please stop making the new expansion mobs walking DPS training golems, Anet. 😂)

[Tofu.1865]

still not reverted?? cool cool cool.

[Thayon.2107]

p2w? LOL

Win what exactly, in the open-world? A slightly higher number on Arcdps on an open-world boss for those that even bother running that particular addon?

Recall that you can't take protocols into pvp, wvw, strikes or raids.

 

 

[NukkinFutz.8645]

17 hours ago, Phazon.3975 said:

Why is this even on the bug forums? The protocols are working as stated in the patch notes. I also have no idea why the players saying that the protocol cooldown was bugged before this update are getting confused reactions (incoming confused reactions for me kek). Before this update, if you only had either the Offensive or the Defensive charge, the cooldown worked as intended, but if you had both of them, it would proc each time you entered combat. This isn't just QoL, but also a bugfix.

Let's be honest here, Jade Protocols before the fix completely made most builds less viable than what they were before like, for example, Celestial builds. Some Celestial builds are still quite good with or without the protocols, but the major benefit of Celestial for solo play is Concentration, because you could maintain boon uptime, making up for the loss of power stats, possibly helping you do higher and more consistent DPS than most glass cannon builds, and making you very tanky to boot. But with the protocols added, and with the bug,  Celestial stats for example, have lost value and you'd be kitten lying if you said playing something other than Berserker was worth it. You would tear anything apart in seconds in any power build with the constant application of the protocol boons. It was overpowered. And come on now. The game is now suddenly unplayable? I heard zero complaints before protocols were added.

However, there are a couple of issues that should be addressed. The cooldown change to 90 seconds is definitely too much. I would lower it to something more reasonable, like 45 seconds. The boons last long enough to give you an extra kick entering combat and against tougher opponents, you will get your occasional "second wind" in combat. I would also add 150 Precision in Offensive Charge and 150 Healing Power in Defensive Charge. The Condition Damage bonus on Offensive Charge can be useless in mostly power builds so adding one extra stat on both will make them more viable for every build. (It's still free stats, people.)

The other problem is that the expansion that introduced the protocols, being EoD, buffed enemy mob health pools to obnoxious levels which I assume was to encourage players to use them. If you don't play a build that is somewhat optimized to pump consistent damage, I would say the threshold is about 15-17k consistent solo DPS, going through EoD mobs is a slog without the charges (I'm looking at you Veteran Nagas). They continued this with SoTO monsters as well in that they are much much beefier than mobs from PoF and before. Take any Open World meta build to Core/HoT/PoF without the charges, and then try it in EoD/SoTO and the difference in mob clearing speed is night and day. I rather have more dangerous but glassier HoT mobs in all expansions than the annoying roaches introduced since EoD. EoD and SoTO mob health pools should be lowered to balance the nerf to the protocols.

 

Thanks for the "GET GUD" post, but anyway.  Didn't ask for it.  Did jade protocols somehow hurt you?  IN ANY WAY? NOPE.  They made builds better and much funner to play.  Made  Open World much more enjoyable to me and others (apparently) than what it is now.  Thanks for your two cents, but we that enjoyed it NEVER ASKED.  A supposed BUG that's been around SINCE it's launch is NOT a BUG, it's a FEATURE that people have grown accustomed to.  I have never known it to be other than awesome and made all my characters and then outfitted them with Jade Bots for that very reason (been playing for a little more than a year).  That's what the problem is.

Edited April 24 by NukkinFutz.8645

[Phazon.3975]

10 hours ago, Thayon.2107 said:

p2w? LOL

Win what exactly, in the open-world? A slightly higher number on Arcdps on an open-world boss for those that even bother running that particular addon?

Recall that you can't take protocols into pvp, wvw, strikes or raids.

 

 

I assume this is a response to my second post. If you are going to cherrypick the one sentence where I said "I joked to players that EoD was a P2W expansion due to protocols." out of my entire post, at least acknowledge that the word "joke" is in it. I think the context is pretty clear in that I joked about it because I thought protocols as they were before were overpowered.

6 hours ago, NukkinFutz.8645 said:

Thanks for the "GET GUD" post, but anyway.  Didn't ask for it.  Did jade protocols somehow hurt you?  IN ANY WAY? NOPE.  They made builds better and much funner to play.  Made  Open World much more enjoyable to me and others (apparently) than what it is now.  Thanks for your two cents, but we that enjoyed it NEVER ASKED.  A supposed BUG that's been around SINCE it's launch is NOT a BUG, it's a FEATURE that people have grown accustomed to.  I have never known it to be other than awesome and made all my characters and then outfitted them with Jade Bots for that very reason (been playing for a little more than a year).  That's what the problem is.

What in the world? Come on, man. Nowhere in that post did I say or even imply for everyone to "GET GUD." Don't twist my words. If there is any fairness, I could say your response has an incredibly condescending tone, so thanks for the "I don't care about your opinion, so shut it." post.

 

 

I just think the protocols were OP and needed to be nerfed. Did they go overboard? Yes, I think so. I gave my reasoning on why it was OP but I also shared some ideas for some kind of balance, a compromise, so that everyone can still have fun and for the protocols to still be useful.

Agree to disagree. That's what I'll leave it as. I wish everyone luck who wants the protocols back the way they were. I want everyone to be happy (within reason) but I also want the game to be balanced.

[A Hamster.2580]

I am part of the despised hardcore 1% crowd and am conflicted on this. On one hand, I like this nerf for obvious reasons. But on the other hand, I like how it was before so that I can rush through the dreaded and boring open world even faster to unlock masteries, gift of exploration, and whatnot and get back to WvW asap.

 

I think this is ultimately good for the player base because I assume 99% of brand new players are not aware of this buff or even have access to it. Now, they are less likely to be overwhelmed by veteran players with perma full boons in Queensdale. The selfish side of me wants the nerfs to be reversed so that I can map complete even faster, but the empathic side feels the nerfs are needed for the sake of the brand new players, the future of this game.

Edited April 25 by A Hamster.2580

[Echostorm.9143]

15 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

I am part of the despised hardcore 1% crowd and am conflicted on this. On one hand, I like this nerf for obvious reasons. But on the other hand, I like how it was before so that I can rush through the dreaded and boring open world even faster to unlock masteries, gift of exploration, and whatnot and get back to WvW asap.

 

I think this is ultimately good for the player base because I assume 99% of brand new players are not aware of this buff or even have access to it. Now, they are less likely to be overwhelmed by veteran players with perma full boons in Queensdale. The selfish side of me wants the nerfs to be reversed so that I can map complete even faster, but the empathic side feels the nerfs are needed for the sake of the brand new players, the future of this game.

I strongly disagree with your stance that nerfing jade tech protocols is good for the game's future or new players. This change will likely have severe negative repercussions that you seem to be overlooking.

First and foremost, by making open world content more tedious for veteran players, you risk depleting the population in those zones. Many vets will simply opt to skip open world entirely if the quality of life benefitsjade tech provided are removed. A lack of an active, highly engaged playerbase spread throughout the open world is incredibly detrimental to an MMO's health and longevity.

Secondly, your assumption that new players are automatically "overwhelmed" by seeing high level characters is misguided. The protocols are optional tools that no one is forced to use. If a new player finds the visuals confusing, they can simply turn effects down or learn what the boons mean through the game's tutorials. Robbing everyone of this earned power just coddles new players unnecessarily.

Most importantly, you fail to consider how incredibly valuable jade tech is as an accessibility feature. Not all players have the time or capability to be "hardcore" gamers. Jade tech lets older players, those with disabilities, or simply more casual audiences experience the full breadth of content and power progression without excessive grinding. Removing it eliminates a rare example of inclusive game design.

Rather than celebrating this nerf for selfish reasons, you should be fighting to keep quality of life features that make the game more inviting and accessible for all players, regardless of playstyle or skill level. The "empathetic" stance would be advocating for even more tools that broaden the audience, not catering to your niche hardcore minority.

[A Hamster.2580]

2 hours ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

First and foremost, by making open world content more tedious for veteran players, you risk depleting the population in those zones. Many vets will simply opt to skip open world entirely if the quality of life benefitsjade tech provided are removed. A lack of an active, highly engaged playerbase spread throughout the open world is incredibly detrimental to an MMO's health and longevity.

So are you saying these same veteran players never bothered with open world before the EoD expansion? I highly doubt that.

 

2 hours ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

Secondly, your assumption that new players are automatically "overwhelmed" by seeing high level characters is misguided. The protocols are optional tools that no one is forced to use. If a new player finds the visuals confusing, they can simply turn effects down or learn what the boons mean through the game's tutorials. Robbing everyone of this earned power just coddles new players unnecessarily.

I see so many posts from new players both on reddit and the official forums on how they have a problem getting participation in the beginner area because everything dies too fast. This nerf will alleviate that problem. There is no debate there.

 

2 hours ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

Most importantly, you fail to consider how incredibly valuable jade tech is as an accessibility feature. Not all players have the time or capability to be "hardcore" gamers. Jade tech lets older players, those with disabilities, or simply more casual audiences experience the full breadth of content and power progression without excessive grinding. Removing it eliminates a rare example of inclusive game design.

Are you saying Open World was not accessible enough to the older players or those with disabilities before the release of EoD? Again, I highly doubt that. And you state this as if this jade buff was completely removed which is not the case. Surely someone having trouble with a specific content can wait 1.5min for the jade buff. How often do you encounter an elite or higher tier monster in open world? I bet not as often as the 1.5min cooldown.

 

 

Now let us really ponder why Anet did this. Let's look at these two choices.

1.) Anet is out to get you and want to ruin your fun because they side with us hardcore players. We are the boogeyman that want to ruin your fun.

2.) Anet did this because of all the feedback from the new players saying how everything dies so fast and that getting participation is a struggle.

Like which is more likely? 

Edited April 25 by A Hamster.2580

[Carnius Magius.8091]

This new update makes "Strength of the Pack" more worthwhile using. I was enjoying all 8 of my tunes acting like superheroes with the Jade Tech buffs. Now most of them are back being parked around the map. The buffs the way they were, caused no harm to PVP and WVW. Let it be an incentive to get EoD.

[Zekent.3652]

Absolute terrible change, the boons CDs should reset after EACH COMBAT, like it used to be.

Edited April 26 by Zekent.3652

[Sugar Min.5834]

3 hours ago, Zekent.3652 said:

Absolute terrible change, the boons CDs should reset after EACH COMBAT, like it used to be.

But that will be fun again rite? Please remember fun is not allowed in this game and this is why we have endless high-handed nerfs to every builds and every mob and their pets are armed with with knock down and stun skills to frustrate you.

Edited April 26 by Sugar Min.5834

[Timey.6853]

The zones that suffer most from this nerf are actually SotO maps imo. Everything in them is so tanky and hits so hard with such a ridiculous amount of condition spam that the boons actually make a HUGE difference if you're trying to explore and map complete. It genuinely made the difference between a build being viable or not in those zones. Now many of my favorite characters to play on are just borderline unusable there because it's such a slog even to kill the most basic health sponges SotO has to offer... Having to spend ages slapping around a bunch of basic mobs that don't even drop anything valuable just so you can remount and flee isn't really compelling gameplay. I strongly suspect that their health pools were balanced around the assumption that everyone would have continuous boon access, and that's just not a realistic expectation for most solo players. This nerf has made that expectation even LESS realistic.

Aside from that, I really don't see limiting boon access on this tool helping with the issue of veterans vaporizing mobs on early maps. Realistically, any character at level 80 with all its traits and abilities unlocked and full exotics is going to vaporize those mobs, boons or no boons. Even characters AT that level can kill most things easily in the starting zones; I know, I keyfarm regularly and sometimes do map completion on them for an extra key. If anything I'd say to scale the mobs slightly better, but honestly it should be easy so that new players can practice with the controls anyway. I don't know what the solution is, but it definitely isn't whatever this was supposed to be.

I just know I find myself absolutely dreading going back to SotO maps now, and that's not a good sign when I actually used to like them.

[Echostorm.9143]

14 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

So are you saying these same veteran players never bothered with open world before the EoD expansion? I highly doubt that.

 

I see so many posts from new players both on reddit and the official forums on how they have a problem getting participation in the beginner area because everything dies too fast. This nerf will alleviate that problem. There is no debate there.

 

Are you saying Open World was not accessible enough to the older players or those with disabilities before the release of EoD? Again, I highly doubt that. And you state this as if this jade buff was completely removed which is not the case. Surely someone having trouble with a specific content can wait 1.5min for the jade buff. How often do you encounter an elite or higher tier monster in open world? I bet not as often as the 1.5min cooldown.

 

 

Now let us really ponder why Anet did this. Let's look at these two choices.

1.) Anet is out to get you and want to ruin your fun because they side with us hardcore players. We are the boogeyman that want to ruin your fun.

2.) Anet did this because of all the feedback from the new players saying how everything dies so fast and that getting participation is a struggle.

Like which is more likely? 

Your claim that nerfing jade protocols will solve new player participation problems is purely speculative and anecdotal. A few posts on Reddit or the forums do not necessarily represent the wider new player experience. In fact, arbitrarily nerfing features could backfire by diminishing zone populations across the board.

Veteran players make up a significant portion of the open world population. Many of them actively enjoy and participate in this content, especially with the quality of life features that jade tech provides. By making these activities more tedious and time-consuming, you risk driving away a core part of the playerbase that keeps these zones healthy and active.

This isn't just about convenience for vets - it's about the overall longevity of the game. An MMO relies on having a critical mass of players spread across all types of content. If you suddenly make open world less appealing to a large subset of dedicated players, you'll see fewer commanders, fewer mentors, fewer people to help out with events and metas. That's a far bigger threat to new player retention than the occasional pre-nerfed elite mob.

Instead of relying on hearsay to make sweeping changes, ANet should be looking at actual data on new player retention and open world participation. If there are specific bottlenecks for new characters, address those surgically with targeted adjustments like scaling or improved tutorials. Don't undermine the entire endgame population to cater to a potentially small minority that may or may not stick around in the long run.

At the end of the day, I think we all want a healthy game that respects the time investment of veteran players while still being welcoming to new ones. Nerfing jade protocols across the board fails to strike that balance. It's a ham-fisted approach that will do more harm than good to the overall ecosystem of the game.

[Mysteriez.1479]

Honestly, this change and the ensuing backlash has only highlighted a fundamental problem with Jade Protocols.

Namely : why do they even exist ?

Before their introduction, it feels like getting such a wide range of buffs could only be done with a dedicated build -- support or boon. This was balanced -- that kind of build would necessarily give up other benefits. (Note: I am not a PvP/WvW player -- this might be wrong, but it is my perceived experience from that period.)

And, out of nowhere, two things happened from EoD onwards : regular mobs were made bulkier in the following expansions, and Jade Protocols were introduced.

Now, naturally, I don't work at ArenaNet and can't say exactly what happened. But it certainly feels as if these two changes are linked, and one might wonder if one of these two things happened :

1. ArenaNet decided (for reasons unknown) that regular mobs needed to be harder to kill from now on, beta testing may or may not have happened and revealed that this was not a welcome change, and instead of backtracking, it was decided that a linked feature should be added to compensate, leading to the creation of Jade Protocols ;
2. ArenaNet decided to introduce a Jade Battery-linked, EoD specific buff (again, for reasons unknown -- perhaps to incite players to seek out Jade Batteries and engage with that feature ?), and found that this trivialized open-world traversal, and so decided to bulk up regular mobs in EoD to compensate.

If one of these two scenarios is correct, then it feels as if nerfing Jade Protocols should have come with a rebalance of EoD/SotO mobs, in order to return to the regular scaling present in every other open-world map before that expansion. This would remove some fuel for the backlash against this "bug correction".

At the very least, the question should have been revisited during SotO development -- Kryptis almost feel bulkier than EoD enemies, and there is no SotO-specific feature to compensate, save for collecting Essence in Convergences, and by definition that only works in Convergences. Mob balancing could have returned to normal then, and perhaps Jade Protocols limited to EoD maps.

As an aside, I do understand those people who feel as though Jade Protocols trivialized pre-EoD maps -- with the bug, it really was a bit overpowered to be able to max out buffs just by falling off a cliff a couple of times. At the same time, I agree with those who think that 90 seconds cooldown is excessive. A minute and a half is plenty of time to get into several combats, which will be slower than the Protocol-buffed fight and only feel like more of a slog in comparison to the fight that immediately preceded them. You don't need to think about that very hard to see why people are resentful of this change. And, as some people have pointed out, it also means the buff might not even be available when you find a stronger mob that you would like to use the buff on, and that is strong enough that doing so would be balanced.

This change has eliminated the vast majority of use cases for the Jade Protocols. You can't use them on regular mobs because the timer is so long that you won't even have the buffs most of the time, and using them against Champions or above doesn't really help since you just enter combat, get buffs, the buffs quickly run out and then you're just...fighting a Champion. Without the Jade Protocols contributing in any way. (I don't really feel like the stats boost helps all that much.)
The Jade Protocols before were overpowered. The Jade Protocols after are irrelevant.

Overall, a large majority of players might decide that it isn't worth bothering with. There will be three categories of people: the veteran community, who will forget it ; the new EoD players who miss the fact the feature even exists ; and those who stumble upon it, try it out, and likely feel almost no difference in the slog against EoD enemies, and then forget it.

I feel as if, had Jade Protocols never been introduced and the mob balancing never changed, this whole thing could have been avoided. EoD was strong enough to stand as an expansion without bulking up the mobs. Players wouldn't have gotten used to the ease of combat and the feeling of power that they procured, and this thread wouldn't exist.

Enemy balancing was supposed to be a solved problem. Event scaling based on player count already existed.

Now I miss the way it worked before the update, and also feel like it was "cheating" and I shouldn't miss it. That's not a fun place to be in when playing a game.

I'd really just like to have a dev explain the choices that were made and why, because there must have been reasons at the time, and those reasons might've been better than the ones I thought up. I realize, though, that that's unlikely to happen.

Edited April 27 by Mysteriez.1479
Missing word in "Overall, a large majority of players..." paragraph

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

The changes are horrible... Cooldown sure... 90 seconds is excessive. 

It would be slightly better if they only triggered on litteral combat.
- You drop a centimeter too high: in combat: triggered
- You briefly touch lava, quicksand etc etc: triggered
All situations you do NOT want it triggered, because you now have the 90 second cooldown.

So no, the cost is no longer worth it.

Cost: Cantha is way out there. Teleport fees are excessive from Cantha back to Central Tyria, Crystal Desert or Heart/Horn of Maguuma. 
Using Mistlock Sanctuary or Guild Hall? They get deleted.
(It also puzzles me why they introduce such feature, yet ONLY have those things stand in Cantha maps) 

So no, since the change, I have not touched them at all - as before I regularly used them on classes I have low boon generation on.
It is - to me - a Deleted feature now.

Some things that might impove it:

- Dont delete while using Guild Halls or VIP areas - tag them differently from instanced combat areas - if too hard to realize:
- Availability outside of Cantha (including batteries)
- No trigger on Non Combat damage like fall damage, enviromental damage
- More reasonable Cooldown 

[Echostorm.9143]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:25 AM, Mysteriez.1479 said:

Honestly, this change and the ensuing backlash has only highlighted a fundamental problem with Jade Protocols.

Namely : why do they even exist ?

Before their introduction, it feels like getting such a wide range of buffs could only be done with a dedicated build -- support or boon. This was balanced -- that kind of build would necessarily give up other benefits. (Note: I am not a PvP/WvW player -- this might be wrong, but it is my perceived experience from that period.)

And, out of nowhere, two things happened from EoD onwards : regular mobs were made bulkier in the following expansions, and Jade Protocols were introduced.

Now, naturally, I don't work at ArenaNet and can't say exactly what happened. But it certainly feels as if these two changes are linked, and one might wonder if one of these two things happened :

1. ArenaNet decided (for reasons unknown) that regular mobs needed to be harder to kill from now on, beta testing may or may not have happened and revealed that this was not a welcome change, and instead of backtracking, it was decided that a linked feature should be added to compensate, leading to the creation of Jade Protocols ;
2. ArenaNet decided to introduce a Jade Battery-linked, EoD specific buff (again, for reasons unknown -- perhaps to incite players to seek out Jade Batteries and engage with that feature ?), and found that this trivialized open-world traversal, and so decided to bulk up regular mobs in EoD to compensate.

If one of these two scenarios is correct, then it feels as if nerfing Jade Protocols should have come with a rebalance of EoD/SotO mobs, in order to return to the regular scaling present in every other open-world map before that expansion. This would remove some fuel for the backlash against this "bug correction".

At the very least, the question should have been revisited during SotO development -- Kryptis almost feel bulkier than EoD enemies, and there is no SotO-specific feature to compensate, save for collecting Essence in Convergences, and by definition that only works in Convergences. Mob balancing could have returned to normal then, and perhaps Jade Protocols limited to EoD maps.

As an aside, I do understand those people who feel as though Jade Protocols trivialized pre-EoD maps -- with the bug, it really was a bit overpowered to be able to max out buffs just by falling off a cliff a couple of times. At the same time, I agree with those who think that 90 seconds cooldown is excessive. A minute and a half is plenty of time to get into several combats, which will be slower than the Protocol-buffed fight and only feel like more of a slog in comparison to the fight that immediately preceded them. You don't need to think about that very hard to see why people are resentful of this change. And, as some people have pointed out, it also means the buff might not even be available when you find a stronger mob that you would like to use the buff on, and that is strong enough that doing so would be balanced.

This change has eliminated the vast majority of use cases for the Jade Protocols. You can't use them on regular mobs because the timer is so long that you won't even have the buffs most of the time, and using them against Champions or above doesn't really help since you just enter combat, get buffs, the buffs quickly run out and then you're just...fighting a Champion. Without the Jade Protocols contributing in any way. (I don't really feel like the stats boost helps all that much.)
The Jade Protocols before were overpowered. The Jade Protocols after are irrelevant.

Overall, a large majority of players might decide that it isn't worth bothering with. There will be three categories of people: the veteran community, who will forget it ; the new EoD players who miss the fact the feature even exists ; and those who stumble upon it, try it out, and likely feel almost no difference in the slog against EoD enemies, and then forget it.

I feel as if, had Jade Protocols never been introduced and the mob balancing never changed, this whole thing could have been avoided. EoD was strong enough to stand as an expansion without bulking up the mobs. Players wouldn't have gotten used to the ease of combat and the feeling of power that they procured, and this thread wouldn't exist.

Enemy balancing was supposed to be a solved problem. Event scaling based on player count already existed.

Now I miss the way it worked before the update, and also feel like it was "cheating" and I shouldn't miss it. That's not a fun place to be in when playing a game.

I'd really just like to have a dev explain the choices that were made and why, because there must have been reasons at the time, and those reasons might've been better than the ones I thought up. I realize, though, that that's unlikely to happen.

I agree soto mobs feel even more over powered but beyond keeping up with mob difficulty, I would argue that the pre-nerf Jade Protocols actually had significant benefits, especially for open world players, casual players, and players with disabilities:

1. Accessibility: For players with physical disabilities or chronic pain that make extended combat sessions or long rotations difficult, the pre-nerf Jade Protocols made it much more feasible to engage with open world content by reducing the time and effort required for fights. This improved accessibility and allowed a wider range of players to fully participate.

2. Casual-friendly: Many casual players have limited time to play and want to focus on exploration, story, and other open world activities rather than extended combat. The previous Jade Protocol buffs helped them move through zones and complete events more efficiently, making the game more enjoyable for those with busier schedules.

3. Soloability: The Jade Protocols made it easier for players to solo group events and bosses in the open world that might otherwise be very challenging or require waiting for other players to show up. This was a huge quality-of-life improvement for solo open world players.

4. Build diversity: You mention that pre-EoD, getting such a wide range of buffs required a dedicated support or boon-sharing build, limiting build diversity. But the Jade Protocols actually enabled more build diversity by giving all builds easy access to strong boons, allowing players to experiment with a wider variety of open world builds.

5. Keeping open world maps populated.  If you suddenly make open world less appealing to a large subset of dedicated players, you'll see fewer commanders, fewer mentors, fewer people to help out with events and metas.

Saying veteran players will forget is puzzling as it is the veteran players who have had the most time to use and get used to this feature.  They feel the sting more than anyone.  If some players, like you, felt like they were 'cheating' then they have the option not to use them but we should not take happiness from others.

Rather than being unbalanced or overpowered, I would argue the original Jade Protocols were a well-designed system that made open world content more accessible, convenient, and fun for a large portion of the playerbase.  The nerfs have drastically reduced their relevance and usefulness.  The change should be rolled back.

[NukkinFutz.8645]

Quote

On 4/26/2024 at 5:08 AM, Timey.6853 said:

The zones that suffer most from this nerf are actually SotO maps imo. Everything in them is so tanky and hits so hard with such a ridiculous amount of condition spam that the boons actually make a HUGE difference if you're trying to explore and map complete. It genuinely made the difference between a build being viable or not in those zones. Now many of my favorite characters to play on are just borderline unusable there because it's such a slog even to kill the most basic health sponges SotO has to offer... Having to spend ages slapping around a bunch of basic mobs that don't even drop anything valuable just so you can remount and flee isn't really compelling gameplay. I strongly suspect that their health pools were balanced around the assumption that everyone would have continuous boon access, and that's just not a realistic expectation for most solo players. This nerf has made that expectation even LESS realistic.

Aside from that, I really don't see limiting boon access on this tool helping with the issue of veterans vaporizing mobs on early maps. Realistically, any character at level 80 with all its traits and abilities unlocked and full exotics is going to vaporize those mobs, boons or no boons. Even characters AT that level can kill most things easily in the starting zones; I know, I keyfarm regularly and sometimes do map completion on them for an extra key. If anything I'd say to scale the mobs slightly better, but honestly it should be easy so that new players can practice with the controls anyway. I don't know what the solution is, but it definitely isn't whatever this was supposed to be.

I just know I find myself absolutely dreading going back to SotO maps now, and that's not a good sign when I actually used to like them.

This has some merit.  I finished SoTO when the last update hit.  Crafted all 18 Obsidian, and only go back for Dailys/Weekly's.  Just not fun for me.  Maybe cuz I'm burnt out on it, but that's besides the point.

Why did you nerf Jade Protocols Anet?

[Spellman.4719]

It's been almost two weeks since ANET completely ruined a core EoD feature. For  two weeks now they neither address this issue, nor do they have the gall to even talk to us. After all, we are all customers and we have paid for this feature back in the days, so we are entitled to at least some explanation what is the logic behind this really bad change and why was it imperative.

Edited April 29 by Spellman.4719
Edit

[NovaanVerdiano.6174]

I for one like the change.

No cd on the protocols was bugged anyway and it's significantly more cozy to get to max duration of the buffs now, plus they last three hours. I actually bother getting my 4x +150 stats now.

[Min Wyseman.2813]

Honestly I would like this change better if they just removed the boons entirely. Wasn't much of a fan of the whole concept of them to begin with due to how they made dedicated open world builds a lot less relevant. I'd still take the protocols for the bonus stats, but the way it is now, the inconsistent boons just feel really, really bad, especially when you can't even control the trigger (as opposed to deliberately booning up before bursting damage). I have stopped using the protocols for this reason.

I do agree with the people upthread who say that EoD & SotO mob health bars need to be looked at to compensate. Insanely tanky trash mobs are no fun, like, just make it a veteran or an elite then and at least then you can tell by the mob name that it's gonna take a while. And while you're on it, there needs to be better balance between classes when it comes to self-booning, because at the moment making a viable open world build for some specs is really easy and for others you need to jump through a billion hoops to still end up with a clunky, barely viable result. The Jade Bot Protocols were a very subpar solution to what is fundamentally a class balance issue, imo.

Edited April 29 by Min Wyseman.2813
grammar error

[Mike.7983]

Main problem for myself personally with the nerf was running certain "fun" builds open world got effectivly gutted to near useless levels now.  Now I am forced to run quick power herald to have any sort of boons.  Loved power or condi virt but try that with poor might generation and with zero quickness it feels terrible.  Not sure why open world gets tossed around  now not like it gives you any prestige advantage.  The buffs pre nerf really helped speed up open world alt mapping or weekly kill 100x.  All this did was kill alot of open world enjoyment off for a great bunch of people.  

[BrightWingedBat.6829]

Yeah, it's made Elementalist real annoying to play in open world too. The only way for an Elementalist to supply their own quickness now is with Catalyst and Catalyst is just really really bad at keeping Quickness up in open world. The mix of Jade Sphere being the source, needing energy, which does not charge right after you use a sphere which you do to give yourself quickness = having half of your fights with quickness and half of them without due to no energy and needing to build it up.

Honestly it's making it hard for me to ever choose playing elementalist in open world.

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Hey everyone, I've been keeping an eye on this conversation and talking to several people on the team about this change. I want to let you know first that we will be making an adjustment in an upcoming build to reduce the cooldown from 90 seconds to 30 seconds.

To give some context on this change and what led to it, jade tech offensive and defensive protocol effects are intended to give players a temporary boost of power at the start of combat, not to maintain those boons permanently—which invalidates many skills, traits, relics, and so on.

We also discovered a bug associated with players having both effects at the same time in a particular order, which allowed players to apply the full duration of both boons on demand in certain situations. In the April 16 game update, when we corrected the issue, we also adjusted the cooldown to more accurately reflect the intent for the jade tech protocol effects.

However, the change to 90 seconds didn't account for smaller, shorter skirmishes, so while we will not reintroduce the bug that prevented the cooldown, we will revert the cooldown to 30 seconds.

Thank you as always for continuing to share your feedback!

[Mike.7983]

If its going to be nerfed to 30 seconds, up from per combat start that we had for the past 2 years.  Can we make the effects proc on combat skill use? Not from taking a small hit or fall damage prior to combat. Most times its wasted before fight even starts currently.

[Spellman.4719]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 thanks for finally reaching us. It's great that you pay attention to the opinion of the players. We all understand that Overcharges were bugged before your last update and they didn't work as they shoud. However there are a few things you should pay attention to: Increase the base boon duration of the boons provided by Overcharges at least by a little bit, because right now even with 100% boon duration some of them barely stays up. Look if you can make it so that they are not so easily activated by random circumstances such as (random hit by a monter, falling gamage etc.). And last but not least as someone already mentioned consider whether it wouldn't be a good idea to add a few extra base stats such as (precision & concentration or healing power) for example. One more time, thanks for your respond and have a great day.