Seriously... another engi nerf... that's what they thought needed balance????

[shion.2084]

I can't even.... so they destroyed the holo meta, but there isn't anything to replace it.  I don't even play holo, but felt it was a pretty even match v1'ing them  on my scrapper.   They also took away lock-on's effectiveness in this stealth heavy environment and screwed over flashbang... for why?   Were that many people even running flashbang?  I mean I did sometimes, but it basically just buys you some sustain effectively because you have to be super glass to do any damage and that's an active defence way of managing to live.  It can't really be spammed because it only worked when health was above a high threshold, and trying a second time with it meant burning a dodge roll.... really guys this is what you chose to focus on... weaken scrapper further, remove holo from meta, and not give any alternative?

Engineer

• Holosmith: Fixed an issue that caused some players to use the engineer version of certain sword weapon skills instead of the holosmith version, even when the holosmith elite specialization was equipped.
• Surprise Shot: Increased the cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
• Particle Accelerator: Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only.
• Aim-Assisted Rocket: Fixed an issue that caused this trait to begin its internal cooldown when a missile struck an ally.
• Flashbang: Reduced the dazed duration from 1 second to 0.5 seconds in PvP only.
• Lock On: Reduced the revealed duration when striking a stealthed target from 6 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only. Reduced the revealed duration when disabling a target from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.

[shion.2084]

To put it another way, flashbang is effective against classes that can keep their health high through chained evades and blocks and endless defensives.  If you do manage to hit them, at least you can stun them for a bit.   In reducing it, you basically further remove counters to things like mesmers, vindi's, spell breakers, and ele.   It gave you a tiny bit of a window or forced a stun break.   Like did those classes need further buffing?  was having to burn a dodge to get it... just way OP?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

• Lock On: Reduced the revealed duration when striking a stealthed target from 6 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only. Reduced the revealed duration when disabling a target from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.

I guess stealth isnt op enough after all.

[shion.2084]

For Holo, I never had problems with them, but you haven't just affected holo, you've affected every class that relied on the meager cleanse we get from toolbelt in a meta viable build.  Also nuked SD builds across all classes....

Edited May 21 by shion.2084

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

• Lock On: Reduced the revealed duration when striking a stealthed target from 6 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only. Reduced the revealed duration when disabling a target from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.

I guess stealth isnt op enough after all.

and even to take this you have to give up swiftness (swift kits).... guess what the viability of a slow engineer is....  The only time I ever take it is when the other team has like 3 oppressive stealth classes minimum.

[aymnad.9023]

It is a small nerf, only condi clear got affected. It is still going to be a really strong and constant dps in both duel and teamfights.

[shion.2084]

Just now, aymnad.9023 said:

It is a small nerf, only condi clear got affected. It is still going to be a really strong and constant dps in both duel and teamfights.

I will eat holo's who run that now.  Before it was a fair match up.  Perhaps you know engi better, but I'm guessing anyone even trying to use this will rotate to toolkit to get wrench.   They're gonna be doing 33% less damage from those skills, meaning triggering  their SD less, and cleanse weak classes like scrapper won't play SD any more.

[shion.2084]

what they should have done was not allow particle accelerator to fire backwards

[aymnad.9023]

Just now, shion.2084 said:

I will eat holo's who run that now.  Before it was a fair match up.  Perhaps you know engi better, but I'm guessing anyone even trying to use this will rotate to toolkit to get wrench.   They're gonna be doing 33% less damage from those skills, meaning triggering  their SD less, and cleanse weak classes like scrapper won't play SD any more.

This is only my first season on holo but I am running antitoxine and I use spectrum shield instead of the turret. It gives me a decent amount of dispell and more stunbreak. There are cases like condi berserker or fire weaver which are a problem but in general I deal well enough vs most builds (like condi reaper). From the look of this patch I will take less dmg from some of the other meta builds and the rest of holo's playstyle is unaffected.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

25 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

and even to take this you have to give up swiftness

this was what I thought also.
Running into a lock on engie (that isnt holo, but they are glass and have their own hangups because of that) usually means you rotated horribly as a thief, they need to rotate into you with a lockdown or fully prepared to wipe you off the map, which is a hell of a lot of commitment.

Feels weird not rewarding them with enough reveal to do anything for that. Maybe my opinion will change with the balance preview?

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, aymnad.9023 said:

This is only my first season on holo but I am running antitoxine and I use spectrum shield instead of the turret. It gives me a decent amount of dispell and more stunbreak. There are cases like condi berserker or fire weaver which are a problem but in general I deal well enough vs most builds (like condi reaper). From the look of this patch I will take less dmg from some of the other meta builds and the rest of holo's playstyle is unaffected. 

So your off meta build isn't impacted, I get it.  It's also not what folks run at a competitive level.     To be fair my build isn't particularly hard hit either.  What I lose is the ability to make effective adjustments for adverse team compositions.   I also lose seeing scrappers running SD builds which was kind of an interesting variant (beTheKey plays with that sometimes).  We lose options for more frequent cleanse that we can actually afford to burn as a cleanse on scrapper too.

  The meta holo was a good counter to certain classes and this change will hit it.  They aren't running anti toxin as the holo class has some other condi mitigation enough to pair with the toolbelt cleanse.   I could be wrong but I'm guessing this just doesn't make the holo viable anymore against the meta classes, there's a reduced chance to dislodge a SB or a number of other side noders. What seems like a small change of only 33% on damage and cleanse is actually their significant burst.

[aymnad.9023]

4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

So your off meta build isn't impacted, I get it.  It's also not what folks run at a competitive level.     To be fair my build isn't particularly hard hit either.  What I lose is the ability to make effective adjustments for adverse team compositions.   I also lose seeing scrappers running SD builds which was kind of an interesting variant (beTheKey plays with that sometimes).  We lose options for more frequent cleanse that we can actually afford to burn as a cleanse on scrapper too.

It is the same as the meta build oustide of the relic.

[shion.2084]

9 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

It is the same as the meta build oustide of the relic.

meta uses photon wall for the great block and the particle accelerator SD attack that blinds.  It uses slick shoes and rifle (edit: turret obviously not weapon).  The rifle is used just for the toolbelt trigger.  Firing that activates the GM trait on tools that gives you quickness and super speed.   Even access to that GM trait is now hampered.

Edited May 21 by shion.2084

[Supernova Starr.2069]

Well I can't wait for june balance patch

Bet those bads weekly crying for PvP/WvW willbender nerf will finally get it

[ccccc.4963]

Someone got paid to nerf engi 😪

[shion.2084]

Just now, ccccc.4963 said:

Someone got paid to nerf engi 😪

.... across the board.  Cause the whole class was outperforming on every spec.  Certainly didn't have any trade-offs like the other meta specs all do.

[Waffles.5632]

Willbender absolutely untouched, Anet's current golden child.

[aymnad.9023]

7 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

meta uses photon wall for the great block and the particle accelerator SD attack that blinds.  It uses slick shoes and rifle.  The rifle is used just for the toolbelt trigger.  Firing that activates the GM trait on tools that gives you quickness and super speed.   Even access to that GM trait is now hampered.

I have slick shoes. Then I can go with 2 of the following : 

• photon wall
• toolkit
• spectrum shield

What exactly are you trying to say? That I do not play the build? If you watched the last mat you have seen that the holo players change every game according to their opponents and weapon choice. Turret is far from being mandatory and it was skipped most games. Which is exactly what metabattle says.

 

Edited May 21 by aymnad.9023

[shion.2084]

2 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I have slick shoes. Then I can go with 2 of the following : 

• photon wall
• toolkit
• spectrum shield

What exactly are you trying to say? That I do not play the build? If you watched the last mat you have seen that the holo players change every game according to their opponents and weapon choice. Turret is far from being mandatory and it was skipped most games. Which is exactly what metabattle says.

 

I'm saying the meta is predicated off slick shoes and photon wall and the majority of the time rifle.  You want to trigger your GM trait that gives you quickness and superspeed as much as possible, and have burnable access to your cleanse.  You want to trigger your investment in SD.    I've seen people swap in toolkit for rifle because of access to pull, pryer and shield, but that's typically not done because the toolbelt recharge timing of just a few seconds between rifle turret and toolkit swings it in rifle's favour. 

[aymnad.9023]

22 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I'm saying the meta is predicated off slick shoes and photon wall and the majority of the time rifle.  You want to trigger your GM trait that gives you quickness and superspeed as much as possible, and have burnable access to your cleanse.  You want to trigger your investment in SD.    I've seen people swap in toolkit for rifle because of access to pull, pryer and shield, but that's typically not done because the toolbelt recharge timing of just a few seconds between rifle turret and toolkit swings it in rifle's favour. 

I checked for you

• Eu quarterfinals : no turret
• Eu semifinals : no turret
• Eu final : no turret

Now for NA

• Na final : played turrets

There is no point in keeping this argument going. As I said build is flexible, barely affected and turret is far from mandatory.

Edited May 21 by aymnad.9023

[ArthurDent.9538]

Don't like the changes. Instant cast ranged burst loaded with trait procs are a kittenous way of dealing damage. Now that stuff is still all there and still devoid of counterplay just can't be abused as frequently.

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, aymnad.9023 said:

It is a small nerf

You realize it was a 50%+ damage nerf (less static discharge and quickness procs as well) on top of 50% cleanse nerf, right?

Edited May 21 by bethekey.8314

[shion.2084]

2 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You realize it was a 50%+ damage nerf (less static discharge and quickness procs as well) on top of 50% cleanse nerf, right?

no... no he doesn't.

[aymnad.9023]

10 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You realize it was a 50%+ damage nerf (less static discharge and quickness procs as well) on top of 50% cleanse nerf, right?

You realize there are plenty of variants not using it right? Go watch Eu mAT

Edited May 21 by aymnad.9023

[bethekey.8314]

6 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

You realize there are plenty of variants not using it right? Go watch Eu mAT

Who is arguing that you can't equip other utilities? They might not be good, but that's another issue. To get back to my point:

You called a 50% nerf on two meta utilities "small" and incorrectly said it only affected cleanse, while also informing everyone you're a first time Holo. Sometimes it's better to not comment if you don't fully understand what you're talking about, y'know?

You're already 6 comments in on this thread lol.

Edited May 21 by bethekey.8314