Update on raids, ¿Every raid gets them?

[Renegated.4132]

My question is, the update affecting the existing raids will be accessible since day 1 or will be one of those things where you say "You want to access this feature? Make the cash sound"? I mean, it would be a really jerk move to prevent players from accessing the new raid levels if they don't have the new exp when we already got paid the original content back in the day. I can understand that things like fishing, the boat and similars are not accessible, since those are something exclusive to the exp, but what happens when working on something that already exists?

Edited June 14 by Renegated.4132

[aymnad.9023]

But isn't it already how it works? 

Raid - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) : To start raiding, you will need to own Heart of Thorns for wings 1-4, or Path of Fire for wings 5-7.

Same for most Strike Mission - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) which can only be accessed from an expansion lobby.

 

Edited June 14 by aymnad.9023

[Renegated.4132]

1 hour ago, aymnad.9023 said:

But isn't it already how it works? 

Raid - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) : To start raiding, you will need to own Heart of Thorns for wings 1-4, or Path of Fire for wings 5-7.

Same for most Strike Mission - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) which can only be accessed from an expansion lobby.

 

The thing it's that with the new expansion, aside of Wing 8 FINALLY, they are also introducing Legendary Raids, that's what I want to know, if LR are somethig exclusive to the new expansion and you neeed it to enter the legendary version of W1 for example or if it's something we will get independently of us having the exp or not due to the update affecting something that already exists.

Edited June 14 by Renegated.4132

[Schimmi.6872]

9 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

The thing it's that with the new expansion, aside of Wing 8 FINALLY, they are also introducing Legendary Raids, that's what I want to know, if LR are somethig exclusive to the new expansion or if it's something we will get independently of us having the exp or not due to the update affecting something that already exists.

As far as I understood the release page, they only mean the new raid when talking about CM and legendary CM.

Edited June 14 by Schimmi.6872

[Renegated.4132]

57 minutes ago, Schimmi.6872 said:

As far as I understood the release page, they only mean the new raid when talking about CM and legendary CM.

If they do that it will be extremely sad, now that they finally decided to do more raids, the logic thing would be that older raids get "a revamp" so they end up affected aswell by the change, add changes to raids but leaving the old ones as they are it's like trying to get water using a colander.

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Renegated.4132 said:

If they do that it will be extremely sad, now that they finally decided to do more raids, the logic thing would be that older raids get "a revamp" so they end up affected aswell by the change, add changes to raids but leaving the old ones as they are it's like trying to get water using a colander.

Yea the can hardly do 2 strikes or 1 raid.

And you now want them to do 1 raid and revamp 7 other raid wings that is not going to work.

And even if they can revamp 1 raid a year during that expansions releases the cadence is to slow for the raid folk and the gain to small for Anet.

[Renegated.4132]

25 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea the can hardly do 2 strikes or 1 raid.

And you now want them to do 1 raid and revamp 7 other raid wings that is not going to work.

And even if they can revamp 1 raid a year during that expansions releases the cadence is to slow for the raid folk and the gain to small for Anet.

If it was that they need to do them completely again yeah, but 75% of the work it's already done, I don't think it's that hard to add something like VG being accompanied by minions based on the phase he is for example:
Phase 1: He is accompanied by R, G or B
Phase 2: RG, RB, GB
Phase 3: All of them

It adds difficulty and it's not something hard to add per se.

Edited June 14 by Renegated.4132

[Sigmoid.7082]

42 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

don't think it's that hard to..

It's probably harder then you give it credit for and there is the opportunity cost of not doing something else people often forget. 

[Renegated.4132]

28 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

It's probably harder then you give it credit for and there is the opportunity cost of not doing something else people often forget. 

I'm a programmer, I know it's hard, but as said, they have most of the job already done, and the example I've put for the VG it's as easy as putting 3 invisible spawners and program them so they activate when needed, you generate a number between 0 and 2, the number it appears it's the mob that spawns, on second phase the same but with 2 and excluding the first result from the pool of choices.

Or even easier, heads or tails, first spawner does the flip, heads it spawns the mob and the other 2 deactivate until needed again, tails means no mob, then the other one, if tails, third spawner spawns the mob.

And this two examples are something that, having the experience ANet has, can be done in probably 2-3 hours including tests because, as said, the fight would be almost the same.

[Linken.6345]

Just now, Renegated.4132 said:

I'm a programmer, I know it's hard, but as said, they have most of the job already done, and the example I've put for the VG it's as easy as putting 3 invisible spawners and program them so they activate when needed, you generate a number between 0 and 2, the number it appears it's the mob that spawns, on second phase the same but with 2 and excluding the first result from the pool of choices.

Or even easier, heads or tails, first spawner does the flip, heads it spawns the mob and the other 2 deactivate until needed again, tails means no mob, then the other one, if tails, third spawner spawns the mob.

And this two examples are something that, having the experience ANet has, can be done in probably 2-3 hours including tests because, as said, the fight would be almost the same.

They dont have the progamers that did raids in the first place anymore and if going from the spagetti code that is dungeons were they threw up their arms in the air and rather do fractals the even mess with that code.

Raids might be the same state.

[Renegated.4132]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

They dont have the progamers that did raids in the first place anymore and if going from the spagetti code that is dungeons were they threw up their arms in the air and rather do fractals the even mess with that code.

Raids might be the same state.

I don't think (I sincerely hope) they've been so stupid to fall TWICE due to the same rock. Mistakes are still there for a reason, remember us where we failed, if after the fail of dungeons, making them so they are essentially untouchable, they did the same with raids, I feel fear for GW3.

[Sigmoid.7082]

18 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

I'm a programmer, I know it's hard, but as said, they have most of the job already done, and the example I've put for the VG it's as easy as putting 3 invisible spawners and program them so they activate when needed, you generate a number between 0 and 2, the number it appears it's the mob that spawns, on second phase the same but with 2 and excluding the first result from the pool of choices.

Or even easier, heads or tails, first spawner does the flip, heads it spawns the mob and the other 2 deactivate until needed again, tails means no mob, then the other one, if tails, third spawner spawns the mob.

And this two examples are something that, having the experience ANet has, can be done in probably 2-3 hours including tests because, as said, the fight would be almost the same.

Im also a programmer and I completely disagree with your assesment of ease and turn around time. You have a very clear stance so I'm just going to agree to disagree here.

Maybe they could revisit in future but for the time being I would say resource would be better spent else where. 

Edited June 14 by Sigmoid.7082

[Smol.7985]

If you want to play new content buy the new expansion ez

[WindBlade.8749]

There is 0 reason that a content that use an expansion dev time, that is planned to release in that same expansion, that is probably in the theme of the expansion and is marketed for the expansion to be in the core game for free.

What do you want ? for them to give every instanced content for free without needing any expansion, you sound entilted asf, why should they dev new content for a game that was finished and sold more than 10 years ago.

When you pay for core you pay for the core content not anything else, it's not a game with a montly sub, if areanet want to give free content for already release DLC/core game they can but they have 0 obligation to do so, they already delivered the content people pay for theses dlc/core game.

Edited June 17 by WindBlade.8749

[Renegated.4132]

On 6/16/2024 at 4:28 PM, WindBlade.8749 said:

There is 0 reason that a content that use an expansion dev time, that is planned to release in that same expansion, that is probably in the theme of the expansion and is marketed for the expansion to be in the core game for free.

What do you want ? for them to give every instanced content for free without needing any expansion, you sound entilted asf, why should they dev new content for a game that was finished and sold more than 10 years ago.

When you pay for core you pay for the core content not anything else, it's not a game with a montly sub, if areanet want to give free content for already release DLC/core game they can but they have 0 obligation to do so, they already delivered the content people pay for theses dlc/core game.

So essentially you're saying that you prefer them showing you the middle finger instead of giving you the content you deserve. People payed for raids back in the day, and if they are going to give raids an update, THE COHERENT WAY OF ACTION it's making said update arrive to all raids, not just one, i don't care if it arrives later, what I want it's for it to arrive.

Edited June 19 by Renegated.4132

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

So essentially you're saying that you prefer them showing you the middle finger instead of giving you the content you deserve. People payed for raids back in the day, and if they are going to give raids an update, THE COHERENT WAY OF ACTION it's making said update arrive to all raids, not just one.

Nonsense. Expansions come with content. You paying for 1 expansion doesn't mean you get access to any and every open world content that will ever come out in the future. You paying for 1 espec with HoT expansion doesn't mean you're entitled to having any and every future espec that comes out with other expansions. In the exact same manner you paying for HoT raids never entitled you to having PoF raids unlocked, the exact same way it doesn't entitle you to having a future expansion raid wing unlocked.

Whatever you suddenly decided to make up on a spot in this thread about "deserving future raid wing because you unlocked raids(??) before" is not how any of this works. Not with raids and not with other expansion content.

Edited June 19 by Sobx.1758

[Renegated.4132]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nonsense. Expansions come with content. You paying for 1 expansion doesn't mean you get access to any and every open world content that will ever come out in the future. You paying for 1 espec with HoT expansion doesn't mean you're entitled to having any and every future espec that comes out with other expansions. In the exact same manner you paying for HoT raids never entitled you to having PoF raids unlocked, the exact same way it doesn't entitle you to having a future expansion raid wing unlocked.

What half of you it's not understanding (or it's refusing to) it's that i'm not asking them to give for free the raid, what I'm asking for it's that they update the old raids aswell instead of leaving those behind like they did with dungeons. If you're gonna give a revamp to a gamemode, you revamp ALL OF IT, not just one part and you leave the other one aging. I don't care if they make it so you can't access legendary mode of W1 unless you have JW, what I want it's that W1 gets legendary mode, i don't care if it's sooner or later.

What's the point of updating a gamemode if you're gonna leave 80% of it as it is?

Edited June 19 by Renegated.4132

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Renegated.4132 said:

What half of you it's not understanding (or it's refusing to) it's that i'm not asking them to give for free the raid

Well, you wrote this:

On 6/14/2024 at 11:25 AM, Renegated.4132 said:

I mean, it would be a really jerk move to prevent players from accessing the new raid levels if they don't have the new exp when we already got paid the original content back in the day.

if by "new raid levels" you didn't mean "new raid wings" then it was not clear to me.

 

3 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

what I'm asking for it's that they update the old raids aswell instead of leaving those behind like they did with dungeons. If you're gonna give a revamp to a gamemode, you revamp ALL OF IT, not just one part and you leave the other one aging. I don't care if they make it so you can't access legendary mode of W1 unless you have JW, what I want it's that W1 gets legendary mode, i don't care if it's sooner or later.

Ok. I doubt they'll do anything like that with previous wings. Again, in the end we did pay for the raids we received and played -and not whatever potential additional difficulty level they could introduce years later. If they do it, great! But if they don't, I don't see it as that "essentially showing the middle finger" you were talking about above. I get that you want it and I wouldn't say "no" to that either (mostly because the majority of the normal raid experience got power crept to hell and back), but I think your comments to the responses you received in this thread are an overreaction, while not being an accurate description of what we paid for and received.

[Renegated.4132]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Well, you wrote this:

if by "new raid levels" you didn't mean "new raid wings" then it was not clear to me.

 

Ok. I doubt they'll do anything like that with previous wings. Again, in the end we did pay for the raids we received and played -and not whatever potential additional difficulty level they could introduce years later. If they do it, great! But if they don't, I don't see it as that "essentially showing the middle finger" you were talking about above. I get that you want it and I wouldn't say "no" to that either (mostly because the majority of the normal raid experience got power crept to hell and back), but I think your comments to the responses you received in this thread are an overreaction, while not being an accurate description of what we paid for and received.

I know they sound like an overreaction, but you end up overreacting when you ask for A, they jump onto you with H, you explain that you asked for A and not H and then they jump again with H xD

[frazazel.7501]

I have a feeling that old raids won't be getting new difficulty options. If they do, it would be better for Anet to make the easy mode first, to give new raiders more than 1 easy raid to experience. That might be as easy as creating an open-world public version without otherwise altering the fights, but it would probably require significant additional work.

[Renegated.4132]

1 minute ago, frazazel.7501 said:

I have a feeling that old raids won't be getting new difficulty options. If they do, it would be better for Anet to make the easy mode first, to give new raiders more than 1 easy raid to experience. That might be as easy as creating an open-world public version without otherwise altering the fights, but it would probably require significant additional work.

Tecnically speaking there are 2 easy raid wings if we count W8, that it's W4. When it comes to difficulty, it's the easiest BY FAR.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I am completely confused what op wants?  If he is asking for 3 raid difficulty, KC and all of wings 4,5,6,7 have those. I am pretty sure with 5 stacks of emboldened and with the current power creep, most people who wants to raid have accessibility to raiding. Pretty much any raid boss is probably as difficult as the new normal mode strikes in eod and soto. 

If he is asking for lcm on all old raid, lcm is only cm with more health. Most raid bosses would require tripple the hp to make the dps check with them even close to being near enrage.

[Renegated.4132]

What i'm asking it's that the change the first 3 raids so they become again, raids, because as of now, most of the bosses can be overkilled with ease even with a team of newbies that only know the mechs by watching videos, raids are supposed to be, in the vast majority of the cases, the pinnacle of the endgame content, something hard enough to make you fail the encounter if you don't know what you're doing and excluding 2-3 bosses (Sabetha, Slothasor, KC), the majority right now are essentially a golem that moves. Ironically the one that really is a golem it's one of the bosses that offers less tolerance to mistakes and not doing the mechs correctly.

And then we have Wing 4, that by default it's the "Hello World" of raiding due to how easy the bosses are in general. Something I fine right to a certain point since as you said, those already have CM versions of the bosses.

Edited July 1 by Renegated.4132