WvW World Restructuring System Poll

[Cuks.8241]

On 6/19/2024 at 6:03 PM, Stone.6751 said:

I don't understand why guilds stacked. Don't they want solid competition and good fights? It has to be boring for them too.

Because most guilds have a limited number of competent commanders. Adding 1 or 2 guilds increases that number. We have at least 6 good comms in our alliance which ensures good content pretty much every evening regardless on which world you end up on.

Because of snowball effect. Many guilds grew alot in light of wr and are now rolling with full squads or more of them. And to fight that you also need bigger numbers. You might not want to have too big of a core guild so you make alliance with another guild and interested straglers.

[shrew.3059]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:59 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Frankly more guilds who are underpowered need to continue avoiding and stop feeding those larger guilds they know will run them over, or don't if you really don't want to accept the power of boon balling and numbers, and the rest of us will continue to have that opinion of your reputation of being suicidal idiots not worth the time.

The result will be people leaving the game mode and likely not returning.

A lot of solo players “feed” the big guilds because they want to play, and perhaps foolishly, don’t realise it’s pointless. At first they’ll go to borderlands but when the farmers follow and run them over there, eventually they’ll quit one by one. And since this can happen around the clock, all there is to do is opportunistically camp flip.

The big guilds will just say “why don’t you just organise?” as if this is an easy thing for casual players to manage, and they will continue stacking until the lower tiers are completely gutted. Maybe this will end up in a two tier system whereby the big organised guilds end up in T1-2/3 and can fight amongst themselves, but that will entirely depend on the matchmaking system.

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

The big guilds will just say “why don’t you just organise?” as if this is an easy thing for casual players to manage, and they will continue stacking until the lower tiers are completely gutted

That doesn't really happen.  Even back in old T8 last place on Borlis Pass before server linking when lower tiers were supposedly gutted this wasn't true.  There were guilds and "organization".  In fact, one of the "casual" pugmanders from then got placed on the same team as one of my accounts.  Yes, she is still pugmanding, part of one of those "server community guilds".

Edited June 23 by Chaba.5410

[jul.7602]

I want to change my vote. Absolutely no way this system is going to last. By the end of the year we will be back to servers.

[shrew.3059]

6 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That doesn't really happen.  Even back in old T8 last place on Borlis Pass before server linking when lower tiers were supposedly gutted this wasn't true.  There were guilds and "organization".  In fact, one of the "casual" pugmanders from then got placed on the same team as one of my accounts.  Yes, she is still pugmanding, part of one of those "server community guilds".

The difference is that servers were already organised to some extent (insofar as they shared a common identity) and had some continuity. It remains to be seen whether the same can be said for groups pushed together by an algorithm and swapped in and out regularly.

[Cuks.8241]

11 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

The difference is that servers were already organised to some extent (insofar as they shared a common identity) and had some continuity. It remains to be seen whether the same can be said for groups pushed together by an algorithm and swapped in and out regularly.

Any organisation of the server community came from the same players running guilds and now organising alliance guilds. Server itself didnt organise anything.

And continuity was not only ensured but enforced with population caps and transfer paywalls.

[shrew.3059]

6 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Any organisation of the server community came from the same players running guilds and now organising alliance guilds. Server itself didnt organise anything.

And continuity was not only ensured but enforced with population caps and transfer paywalls.

I didn’t mean to imply the server itself did anything, but it was the macro structure from which organisation was born. There isn’t the same macro structure anymore; alliances don’t really need individual players in their link, so these are a resource they can ignore. It is entirely possible guilds will form on these servers in response to being crushed repeatedly, but I’m skeptical this will happen at scale when individual players can simply get recruited up.

But it’s largely irrelevant, since those who benefit from the new system will not experience any of its shortcomings and those who do will realise the game mode is not for them.

Edited June 23 by shrew.3059

[Cuks.8241]

4 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

There isn’t the same macro structure anymore; alliances don’t really need individual players in their link, so these are a resource they can ignore.

I don't think this is true and it will become more obvious in the future. As from what I see now there's hype and lot's of players are online, joining guild raids and so on. But in the long run this will change and go more to what we were used to. Guild raids (with the core group) a few hours per week but in between people just want to play in various forms. Solo, various casual tags... And for that you need player base.

If a player, regardless of what playstyle he prefers wants to join alliance he can easily do it today. It's really just a matter of asking.

[Belgarion.7208]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:53 PM, Psoewish.9172 said:

It's obviously not been long enough to form any real judgements, but my initial impressions are very positive. I suspect this has a lot to do with me being an EU player previously on GoM (NA server), so my playtimes rarely matched up with everyone else. But these last few days I've been seeing loads of people online when I've been able to play, and as a result I've had so many cool fights. It reminded me of my time before I switched to NA (to play with friends, btw), where I was on Aurora Glade. So I definitely have a nonstandard situation but for me personally, this has been nothing but fantastic so far.

I think the issue isn't match ups or balancing. Ultimately this 'grand ANet dream' killed a lot of active in-game communities. A lot of server had active and established communities and cultures which overnight ANet have just destroyed with no consideration for the social side of the game. I came from Gandara which had an amazing community, a good culture and we had a lot of fun times as a server as well as in our guilds.

It seems that ANet looked at only one side of a multi sided issue, and that was the matchups and region splits. There was no consideration for the server communities that have formed since 2012 (thats 12 years by the way, many people in those communities have grown up, been through ups and downs with those same people)

[Loki.7362]

It seems to me that Anet wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it, rather that play it to have fun. Anet has a history of this, does Lions Arch, Scarlet Briar and the Quensdale boss train ring a bell. Just to mention a few. The wizards of ANET have made the WvW declaration and clicked their heels twice, it is now written in stone! They will not ban hackers or leave well enough alone because they simply don't care! They still make their money, hackers or no hackers or disgruntled players tickets. Maby a boycott of the Black Lion Trading Company would get their attention. I will probably get suspended or even kicked for saying this, but I have to say it...ANET pull your collective heads out of your ares!! People have paid good money to play this game and have fun. You are just as guilty as the hackers for ruining it for the rest of us. I have two accounts that go all the way back to the beginning of the original GW. I remember in the original GW a Giant Grim Reaper coming up out of the ground and killing the cheaters toon in the cities and they lost their account.

[Majstk.7986]

I want my OLD WVW homeland back and WVW back to the way it was and it's looking like a lot others do as well . Getting ready to just abandon WVW, it's just not fun any more. 

So Anet do us all a favor and change WVW BACK to the way it was and bring back the other worlds like Anvil Rock. Scrub this restructuring and mark it as a big failure , oh and while your at it put the dailies back to the way they were as well, I want the ability to again pick what we've dailies I want to do across the board not have them picked for me and I'd like the 2gp as well 

[Playmate.8521]

i want deso back!

[Cameirus.8407]

next week I get the last skirmish tokens I'll ever need. and unless there is a miraculously more fair matchup (lol) or they revert to servers. That will probably be the last time I spend significant time in WvW.

The changes have killed it for me as a casual (non-organised group) player. I used to know my server community, I used to know the commanders, knew how they played, had the guild discords saved, knew people who roamed off hours, and who was up for a sneaky late night golem rush on SM 🙂

now I dont. I have just about learnt who is on my team now, got some commanders I know I can run with, how they play, when they play. Have the discords....great you may think, its just like before? yeah, except...that all goes away tomorrow.....and its back to square one, with no community.

and matchups are horrendously unbalanced, and exploiting seems to be increasingly common (esp with thief) to take objectives.

Edited July 25 by Cameirus.8407

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 6/16/2024 at 12:53 AM, Lionwait.4815 said:

I am interested on people's perspectives and where they came from and how they feel about the new system. Because I believe where you came from distorts one's perspective of this new WvW system.

At the end of the next sort might be interesting to re run this poll.

[Majstk.7986]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARENANET  Please scrap this insane WVW restructure you did. Scap it  in 29 Days 24 Minutes and 35 seconds. I miss my Anvil Rock Homeland and my casual playing guildies I  played with back with me not against me.You Destroyed WVW now put it back to the way it was again FOR THE LOVE OF GOD>

Edited July 30 by Majstk.7986

[sduFire.8420]

I basically like the new WR idea but anet algorithm has to do better job to balance the teams. I'm with a pretty active but small alliance.. we usually have about 15-25 people around in NA prime time and we had been doing pretty good in match1 (from t3 -> t1 -> t2). However, in match2, we have been placed in T4 with a lot of pug which are pretty new players and against 2 teams which has no problem to have 1-2 full semi-meta groups in NA prime time across the maps. I don't see we have lot of OCX players in the team either by looking at the score history. So, why's that? We dont mind to work with new players as it's important to introduce new comers into the game but they got discouraged when the only thing we can do is being steamrolled.

[cajalbelvue.5319]

12 hours ago, sduFire.8420 said:

anet algorithm has to do better job to balance the teams

Alliances removed all the brain power of the players from balancing the teams. We no longer have tens of  thousands of players balancing. We have a brain, the algorithm... the alliance leader, with with 1/10,000th the brain power attempting it.

Edited July 31 by cajalbelvue.5319

[Atoclone.4810]

7 hours ago, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

Alliances removed all the brain power of the players from balancing the teams. We no longer have tens of  thousands of players balancing. We have a brain, the algorithm... the alliance leader, with with 1/10,000th the brain power attempting it.

Wut? 

[cajalbelvue.5319]

1 hour ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

Wut? 

You're the new algorithm. Are your lone abilities able to calculate every players motivations and wants for a match? No
Can you know your motivations and what match up you want for yourself? Yes
If you know what's best for yourself, it's not a leap to assume everyone else knows what best for themselves also. So give them the information and ability to balance themselves.
Wisdom of Crowds.
No alliance leader can know what 500 ppl want, it's impossible. Alliances didn't even stay within Dunbars Number.

Edited July 31 by cajalbelvue.5319

[One more for the road.8950]

35 minutes ago, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

You're the new algorithm. Are your lone abilities able to calculate every players motivations and wants for a match? No
Can you know your motivations and what match up you want for yourself? Yes
If you know what's best for yourself, it's not a leap to assume everyone else knows what best for themselves also. So give them the information and ability to balance themselves.
Wisdom of Crowds.
No alliance leader can know what 500 ppl want, it's impossible. Alliances didn't even stay within Dunbars Number.

Are you misunderstanding how teams works? A team isn't one alliance guild  with 500 members and a supreme leader. 

[cajalbelvue.5319]

24 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

Are you misunderstanding how teams works? A team isn't one alliance guild  with 500 members and a supreme leader. 

What server should I be on based on what you know about me? Then do that for everyone else. That's not the way to do things and have good outcomes.

Edited July 31 by cajalbelvue.5319

[One more for the road.8950]

11 minutes ago, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

What server should I be on based on what you know about me? Then do that for everyone else. That's not the way to do things and have good outcomes.

Doesn't change how WR works. A team is not one alliance guild with 500 members and a supreme leader.

[cajalbelvue.5319]

Someone said "anet algorithm has to do better job to balance the teams"
I was explaining how that's too complex to be done top down, it can only be solved bottom up.
I don't see how you agree or disagree with that.
 

Edited July 31 by cajalbelvue.5319

[TheGrimm.5624]

57 minutes ago, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

Someone said "anet algorithm has to do better job to balance the teams"
I was explaining how that's too complex to be done top down, it can only be solved bottom up.
I don't see how you agree or disagree with that.
 

It is done by the bottom up, not sure what you mean. As far as players having enough info to self sort, not sure there either. Or are you just saying you want servers back? I can think of various upcoming issues as more players group up on their own but I don't think that is where you are going. If you are implying that the guild leaders choose where they will be matched up at, that is also not true. As far as a sortation logic based on attributed systems, that concept has been around before computers were around. Its a matter of defining the attributes and why they matter and then tracking them to figure out the best sorts. The best arguments I have seen for smaller guilds is due to the roll up of players overtime creating clumps that don't sort well once you roll their numbers up from the players into the guild and community aka alliance guilds to sort them. 

Maybe you are thinking going back to the 2012-2014 period of servers and free transfers? That as I recall didn't work well either due to stacking. So how do you picture the system you are indicating? 

[cajalbelvue.5319]

Bottom up could be something like: community servers with guilds, server discords and matchups determined by players scoring and moving up and down tiers. 500 gem transfers. Opening new empty servers with free or paid transfers for events and then automatically transferring them off, but giving them a free transfers after the server closing when the events over with no guarantees to rejoin full servers. 

Top down is assigning a arbitrary servers to players and player groups, as we currently have done in wvw.