Sword 2 skill abuse in wvw since like forever

[blitzbirne.2890]

Can we talk about a "feature" that exists forever (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Return ) thieves being able to port into specific towers....Redbriar on alpines for example.

 

Just got the info statt 5 works aswell https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vault .

 

Other skills once they are buged or abused get disabled (like other skills in the past) ? Why not sword 2 on thieves? It gets reported over and over (not just in forums) but still nothing happened to this day. Sorry to bring it up again -.-

Edited June 18 by blitzbirne.2890

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, blitzbirne.2890 said:

Can we talk about a "feature" that exists forever (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Return ) thieves being able to port into specific towers....Redbriar on alpines for example.

 

Just got the info statt 5 works aswell https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vault .

 

Other skills once they are buged or abused get disabled (like other skills in the past) ? Why not sword 2 on thieves? It gets reported over and over (not just in forums) but still nothing happened to this day. Sorry to bring it up again -.-

sword eles also do it

[Eugenides.1274]

The virtuoso distortion exploit gets posted on Reddit and within the same day they disable it.
Port/leap/etc. exploits in WvW have been posted on Reddit/Youtube and also sent to ANet via official reporting tools (step by step instructions and videos) for literally years.
I guess we need to find a way to bug out Cerus CM with thief sword 2.

Competitive integrity in WvW and PvP just isn't a priority for ANet.

[Liewec.2896]

On 6/19/2024 at 6:57 AM, Eugenides.1274 said:

The virtuoso distortion exploit gets posted on Reddit and within the same day they disable it.

i think its because there is a big difference between exploiting into a keep without taking down the gate and becoming immortal.

maybe if you can get a whole guild to play thief and all abuse the bug it will be fixed, but i don't think Anet are really worried about a few thieves entering keeps.

[Eugenides.1274]

11 hours ago, Liewec.2896 said:

but i don't think Anet are really worried about a few thieves entering keeps.

You see how that is problematic, right?
Also this isn't just a "few thieves". It's literally been an issue for years that you see posted/posts bumped here and on reddit every week or so.

But as you said ANet simply doesn't care so it is what it is.

Edited July 11 by Eugenides.1274

[Liewec.2896]

2 hours ago, Eugenides.1274 said:

You see how that is problematic, right?
Also this isn't just a "few thieves". It's literally been an issue for years that you see posted/posts bumped here and on reddit every week or so.

But as you said ANet simply doesn't care so it is what it is.

i agree its a problem, and they SHOULD try to fix it, but they only seem to fix the big gamebreaking stuff.

and as i said previously you'd need to convince a whole 40 man group to run thief and all bypass gates to dominate WvW

then you would get it on Anets radar as a serious issue and they'd be forced to do something.

but currently they don't see it as a big issue because it isn't causing enough chaos.

if you want change, cause chaos! 😉

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 7/10/2024 at 4:51 PM, Liewec.2896 said:

i think its because there is a big difference between exploiting into a keep without taking down the gate and becoming immortal.

maybe if you can get a whole guild to play thief and all abuse the bug it will be fixed, but i don't think Anet are really worried about a few thieves entering keeps.

I'm against exploits as much as the next guy,  I even had to,  respectfully,  part ways with a new recruit for EcK, our thief exclusive wvw guild because he did and knew all the glitch/parkour spots...but if we won't get banned and brought the attention to arenanet to prove how important it is to fix I would gather who I have to do it. 

 

Idk what we could do to raise the awareness to them on it

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Is it actually a thief specific thing or a "you can do this with any targeted port" thing? If it's the latter, then that might explain why it's not been fixed, if it's something they'd need to basically break every targeted port to fix.

[blitzbirne.2890]

On 7/19/2024 at 9:16 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Is it actually a thief specific thing or a "you can do this with any targeted port" thing? If it's the latter, then that might explain why it's not been fixed, if it's something they'd need to basically break every targeted port to fix.

But not every class is able to port in other people. All it needs is thief exploids inside, ports in 1-2 mesmers  to get in a 50 man zerg. Just change those skills so the port does not happen without a target. "unable to use". Its been an exploid since release. Or just patch out all keeps  and towers because with exploids like this there is no point for that to exist. But hey...its wvw...and we all know what anets point in fixing broken stuff in this game mode is.

 

And fixing targeted port exploid is not breaking it!

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:04 PM, blitzbirne.2890 said:

But not every class is able to port in other people. All it needs is thief exploids inside, ports in 1-2 mesmers  to get in a 50 man zerg. Just change those skills so the port does not happen without a target. "unable to use". Its been an exploid since release. Or just patch out all keeps  and towers because with exploids like this there is no point for that to exist. But hey...its wvw...and we all know what anets point in fixing broken stuff in this game mode is.

 

And fixing targeted port exploid is not breaking it!

It would break more than you think actually. Unless you plan to redesign how sword thief works and buff the snot out of it, removing the ability to use sword 2 without a target would break the set in various PvP matchups and make stealth spamming dagger pistol thieves even more dominant. And yes, this is a major concern since the class is much more PvP focussed than most other classes. 

I don't know exactly how this exploit actually works, so I'll work it through logically. Thief sword 2 is a two part skill: the first part of the skill is a targeted port that also places a mark on the ground that the second part of the skill can port you back to. You can also use sword 2 without a target to place the return mark, run off then return to it as you please. This is important, as a lot of classes have skills that function like the first part, but not many have skills like the second part. 

Assuming that the first part of the skill is responsible for the exploit, that's a game wide issue with how ports are coded. This would presumably mean that thief is not the only class that glitch into a keep using a port skill like this, and ANet aren't likely to recode an entire skill set this late into the game's lifespan. Yes, not every class can portal into a keep after glitching in, but it would then be better for thief in general if you reworked shadow portal. Nobody asked for that kind of utility on thief in the first place. 

Assuming that the exploit is thief only, it would also be reasonable to assume it is the second part of the skill that makes the exploit possible, as the thief ports back to the mark on the ground and the game fluffs up which side of the wall they're supposed to be on. If that's the case, making the first part of sword 2 wouldn't remove the exploit (as I could just port towards something else in the distance like a random mob, or even towards the tower gate or a breakable wall), and making the second part of the skill require a target makes zero sense.

The last thing to consider is if the thief used an exploit at all. I frequently stealth in friendly towers as they are being taken by the enemy zerg, then wait for them to leave before either using shadow portal to port allies in or simply solo the objective. The former can be fixed by either checking an objective properly after capping it, or changing how shadow portal works. The second, well, if I manage to avoid detection for the five minutes before I can recap, then to solo the objective without being stopped by any defenders, in my opinion I deserve the cap.

Edit: just to be clear, in my last paragraph I'm not saying that the exploit doesn't exist or that some players don't use it. I'm more saying that there is more than one way for a thief to sneak into a tower, most of them are entirely legitimate, and unless you watched the thief doing it you wouldn't know whether he exploited, walked in through an open wall or if he never left the tower in the first place. 

Edited July 23 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[blitzbirne.2890]

3 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

It would break more than you think actually. Unless you plan to redesign how sword thief works and buff the snot out of it, removing the ability to use sword 2 without a target would break the set in various PvP matchups and make stealth spamming dagger pistol thieves even more dominant. And yes, this is a major concern since the class is much more PvP focussed than most other classes. 

I don't know exactly how this exploit actually works, so I'll work it through logically. Thief sword 2 is a two part skill: the first part of the skill is a targeted port that also places a mark on the ground that the second part of the skill can port you back to. You can also use sword 2 without a target to place the return mark, run off then return to it as you please. This is important, as a lot of classes have skills that function like the first part, but not many have skills like the second part. 

Assuming that the first part of the skill is responsible for the exploit, that's a game wide issue with how ports are coded. This would presumably mean that thief is not the only class that glitch into a keep using a port skill like this, and ANet aren't likely to recode an entire skill set this late into the game's lifespan. Yes, not every class can portal into a keep after glitching in, but it would then be better for thief in general if you reworked shadow portal. Nobody asked for that kind of utility on thief in the first place. 

Assuming that the exploit is thief only, it would also be reasonable to assume it is the second part of the skill that makes the exploit possible, as the thief ports back to the mark on the ground and the game fluffs up which side of the wall they're supposed to be on. If that's the case, making the first part of sword 2 wouldn't remove the exploit (as I could just port towards something else in the distance like a random mob, or even towards the tower gate or a breakable wall), and making the second part of the skill require a target makes zero sense.

The last thing to consider is if the thief used an exploit at all. I frequently stealth in friendly towers as they are being taken by the enemy zerg, then wait for them to leave before either using shadow portal to port allies in or simply solo the objective. The former can be fixed by either checking an objective properly after capping it, or changing how shadow portal works. The second, well, if I manage to avoid detection for the five minutes before I can recap, then to solo the objective without being stopped by any defenders, in my opinion I deserve the cap.

Edit: just to be clear, in my last paragraph I'm not saying that the exploit doesn't exist or that some players don't use it. I'm more saying that there is more than one way for a thief to sneak into a tower, most of them are entirely legitimate, and unless you watched the thief doing it you wouldn't know whether he exploited, walked in through an open wall or if he never left the tower in the first place. 

There are many cases where this exact exploit was filmed and sent to arenanet. Meaning jumping on the spot where the exploit works und getting inside with that mentioned skill. Ive got nothing against thieves legit sneaking in. But on every server there are players known of not doing it legit. As far as commanders refusing to take the port inside. I rly dont understand how someone can defend this kind of thing. Maybe just change those skills to something as useful but remove the porting part that is exploidable.

[kash.9213]

9 minutes ago, blitzbirne.2890 said:

There are many cases where this exact exploit was filmed and sent to arenanet. Meaning jumping on the spot where the exploit works und getting inside with that mentioned skill. Ive got nothing against thieves legit sneaking in. But on every server there are players known of not doing it legit. As far as commanders refusing to take the port inside. I rly dont understand how someone can defend this kind of thing. Maybe just change those skills to something as useful but remove the porting part that is exploidable.

Who is defending it? People aren't talking about it being right or wrong but if it's a very specific source and if a lot of people make a thief to use that skill because they've heard of others using it. Also, people are stating that regardless if it's only doable with that one skill or if that one skill is the most obvious, what does Anet deem gamebreaking or not. 

[blitzbirne.2890]

  How is this.....not game breaking?!

[kash.9213]

4 minutes ago, blitzbirne.2890 said:

  How is this.....not game breaking?!

No one is fighting you on that. Why are you screeching like people are all about exploits or something. You're yelling at yourself at this point mostly.

[Sandzibar.5134]

Its more likely that anet would ban everyone in this thread, and lock/delete it, than attempt to fix these long standing and constantly reported expoits.

 

 

[blitzbirne.2890]

3 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Its more likely that anet would ban everyone in this thread, and lock/delete it, than attempt to fix these long standing and constantly reported expoits.

 

 

Would take it if it means this "feature" would get fixed in exchange. Not motivated to play wvw anyways with problems like that and the recent changes to "improve" wvw.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 7/23/2024 at 6:18 PM, blitzbirne.2890 said:

There are many cases where this exact exploit was filmed and sent to arenanet. Meaning jumping on the spot where the exploit works und getting inside with that mentioned skill. Ive got nothing against thieves legit sneaking in. But on every server there are players known of not doing it legit. As far as commanders refusing to take the port inside. I rly dont understand how someone can defend this kind of thing. Maybe just change those skills to something as useful but remove the porting part that is exploidable.

That's exactly my point tho. If you remove the port, you destroy sword thief in competitive modes. The entire build revolves around how you use that one skill. Unless you're willing to redesign that entire weapon set and potentially thief in general to accommodate it, you're not going to see a change here. 

As far as defending the exploit, nobody here is, not least myself. If you get caught glitching into an objective, you deserve a ban. I brought up legitimate ways of entering a keep undetected because many people just assume that because I'm goobering around in keep that I don't own, I must have glitched in. While I generally find people whispering me telling me I've been reported funny since I don't do anything remotely shady, if people assume I must be glitching to the point that they refuse a shadow portal then frankly there's no reason for the portal to exist. Remove it, no more zergs porting into keeps. 

Beyond that, changing the mesh of doors on towers and keeps to cover the whole of a doorway should remove a lot more of those ways into a keep. But given there's a wall that's visibly in the wrong place in red keep that's been like that for years, I don't hold high hopes for ANet fixing any of this stuff either. 

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

That's exactly my point tho. If you remove the port, you destroy sword thief in competitive modes. The entire build revolves around how you use that one skill. Unless you're willing to redesign that entire weapon set and potentially thief in general to accommodate it, you're not going to see a change here.

the skill had 2 important changes in the earlier years, not sure if the exploit actually worked with the old versions. both changes were nerfs to the skill for competitive modes.

• first it was changed from instant + stunbreak to have a cast time.
  looking at those videos it seems to be important to finish the cast midair (maybe thats not required, i am not an expert on the exploit). finishing the skill midair is only possible because of the cast time as the skill can not be activated midair.
• finishing the cast mid air used to not port you back at all.
  this was changed i think the same time as staff 3 jumping was removed, but could be wrong. can't find info about it on quick wiki glance. again if the cast needs to finish midair for this exploit and we just revert to not teleporting at all in that case, that would fix this particular exploit.

i wouldn't mind reverting either of those 2* nerfs to get rid of the exploit if possible. 
*stunbreak and instant cast remove were actually 2 seperate changes.

the staff jump exploits i think also work with some other jump skills like DH wings of resolve, there higher gates/walls would be the appropriate fix.

shadow portal i personally would like to keep, while roaming i run it on any build as it is the most efficient option to avoid needless fights, helps greatly to safe time on supply runs and is just the best escape skill, which allows one to build/play with a bit more 'risk'  - ofc its bad if you notice too late that it has run out or if you don't even set it assuming an easy fight.
porting other people into objectives i managed to hide in i only do if they come to siege it anyway, but i would prefer if they would actually siege another structure to draw the defenders away/utilize that i bind them there.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

5 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

the skill had 2 important changes in the earlier years, not sure if the exploit actually worked with the old versions. both changes were nerfs to the skill for competitive modes.

• first it was changed from instant + stunbreak to have a cast time.
  looking at those videos it seems to be important to finish the cast midair (maybe thats not required, i am not an expert on the exploit). finishing the skill midair is only possible because of the cast time as the skill can not be activated midair.
• finishing the cast mid air used to not port you back at all.
  this was changed i think the same time as staff 3 jumping was removed, but could be wrong. can't find info about it on quick wiki glance. again if the cast needs to finish midair for this exploit and we just revert to not teleporting at all in that case, that would fix this particular exploit.

i wouldn't mind reverting either of those 2* nerfs to get rid of the exploit if possible. 
*stunbreak and instant cast remove were actually 2 seperate changes.

the staff jump exploits i think also work with some other jump skills like DH wings of resolve, there higher gates/walls would be the appropriate fix.

shadow portal i personally would like to keep, while roaming i run it on any build as it is the most efficient option to avoid needless fights, helps greatly to safe time on supply runs and is just the best escape skill, which allows one to build/play with a bit more 'risk'  - ofc its bad if you notice too late that it has run out or if you don't even set it assuming an easy fight.
porting other people into objectives i managed to hide in i only do if they come to siege it anyway, but i would prefer if they would actually siege another structure to draw the defenders away/utilize that i bind them there.

I get what you're saying, but the problem that causes the exploit is the return port itself, and the server messing up what side you were on because of the jump.

You can't revert either the stun break or the instant cast changes and remove the port, as that would still break the set and fundamentally change the playstyle of sword thief..

You can't change the port to not allow travel through terrain, as that would probably mean sword 2 would fail because of small hills and random scenery like shadow trap used to, making the set unreliable at best, unplayable at worst.

You can't make the first part of the port require a target because that would cripple a sword thief trying to kite vs a stealthed opponent, while not actually managing to fix the exploit in the first place, and making the second part of the por require a target just makes zero sense. 

The only options I can see that don't require a massive rework of the set or of thief as a whole are:

1) to rewrite the code for sword 2 so you can't jump while using the skill (no idea on the practicality of this, but frankly it's the best option)

2) to do some work on the back end to fix the latency or whatever thing that's being abused to trick the game into getting the return port wrong (no idea if this is even feasable)

3) to remove shadow portal and a bunch of the random objects that people use as props to vault on

I'd much prefer option 1 but we all know what ANet are like when it comes to low hanging fruit type choices. 

[bq pd.2148]

28 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I get what you're saying, but the problem that causes the exploit is the return port itself, and the server messing up what side you were on because of the jump.

exactly that is what i gathered from the video.

 

28 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

You can't change the port to not allow travel through terrain, as that would probably mean sword 2 would fail because of small hills and random scenery like shadow trap used to, making the set unreliable at best, unplayable at worst.

The only options I can see that don't require a massive rework of the set or of thief as a whole are:

1) to rewrite the code for sword 2 so you can't jump while using the skill (no idea on the practicality of this, but frankly it's the best option)

i thought that either change above specifically does more or less what you suggest with 1.

• the skill can not be activated midair. if the skill is instant, it wont be mid jump as you need to be on ground when the teleport goes off. this does not change the competitive use of it negatively for the thief, it would be a straight boost as it would allow getting out of CC/getting away without being interruptable.
• the no port as it was worked like this: cast the skill without jump and you return like normal, jump while casting and you do not port back but the 'port marker' resets. so you can use jumped version to chase people down instead of teleporting back. again a  buff without removing the current functionality at all. (except for exploit stuff)

maybe another option would be to make the port back to work like that of a portal. that would mean not useable out of range, no path requirement but you would get to exactly the marked location and not end up somewhere else due to pathing jankyness.

Edited July 25 by bq pd.2148

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

15 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

exactly that is what i gathered from the video.

Ahh, apologies if I'm missing the point, but thanks for making it clear 🙂

15 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

i thought that either change above specifically does more or less what you suggest with 1.

• the skill can not be activated midair. if the skill is instant, it wont be mid jump as you need to be on ground when the teleport goes off. this does not change the competitive use of it negatively for the thief, it would be a straight boost as it would allow getting out of CC/getting away without being interruptable.

That would make sense, but the question then would be if the exploit existed when sword 2 acted this way. I don't know the dates, but that's a potential fix if it's the casting animation that introduces the issue, good shout that. 

On that note, does anyone know if it works with shortbow 5? You can jump after the cast on that skill too, if it is the casting animation while in midair that's the problem then logically the exploit should work on that skill too. Unless it's the specific combo of not needing line of sight plus the jump cast that's the issue, in which cast making the skill instant again still fixes it. 

15 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

• the no port as it was worked like this: cast the skill without jump and you return like normal, jump while casting and you do not port back but the 'port marker' resets. so you can use jumped version to chase people down instead of teleporting back. again a  buff without removing the current functionality at all. (except for exploit stuff)

maybe another option would be to make the port back to work like that of a portal. that would mean not useable out of range, no path requirement but you would get to exactly the marked location and not end up somewhere else due to pathing jankyness.

Now this one I'm pretty sure existed while the exploit was a thing. I started playing thief in may 2013 so I missed the instant cast change but I remember the jump cancel for chasing people in WvW, and I'm pretty sure the exploit was a thing at this point too. Again, I might be wrong on dates, but I think it's more likely that the delay caused by the casting animation that makes the server double take. 

Edit: just in case it's not clear for any mods reading this, we are not encouraging anyone to actually do this exploit nor do we endorse cheating in any way. If you use this exploit you deserve a ban. I just want the exploit to be fixed in a way that doesn't hamstring one of my favourite builds, if at all possible. 

Edited July 26 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[bq pd.2148]

13 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Now this one I'm pretty sure existed while the exploit was a thing. I started playing thief in may 2013 so I missed the instant cast change but I remember the jump cancel for chasing people in WvW, and I'm pretty sure the exploit was a thing at this point too. Again, I might be wrong on dates, but I think it's more likely that the delay caused by the casting animation that makes the server double take.

are you certain this specific glitch with the sword 2 follow up worked during the time that jumping would cause the skill to not teleport at all?

aside from that especially 

13 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

On that note, does anyone know if it works with shortbow 5? You can jump after the cast on that skill too, if it is the casting animation while in midair that's the problem then logically the exploit should work on that skill too. Unless it's the specific combo of not needing line of sight plus the jump cast that's the issue, in which cast making the skill instant again still fixes it.

got me thinking a bit and i did some testing in guildhall and on our own structures in WvW.

you see all those locations where they use sword 2 followup are no teleport spots. meaning you cannot use shortbow 5 there or any other regular shadowstep.
however both sword 2 followup as well as shadow return (shadowstep utility skill follow up) will try to teleport you even if there is no valid path.  for example place the return point on a wall, jump out and move a bit away from the structure, then activate the followup and get teleported right next to the wall. you cant even shoot a shortbow 5 at the ledge of the wall, because you get an error.

1. first i tried in guildhall with 2 spaced racetracks (both being fully no teleport areas) and it didn't work at all.
2. then i went on our homeborder where we had SE tower that was prominetly featured in the video so i check the nature of the terrain there.  - funnily enough while there an opposing deadeye jumped in and ported a virtuoso + FB in, killed them all at lord - . i noticed while the position from where they use the jump is a no teleport spot, the destination is not.
3. so back to the guildhall i went. the natural terrain can be teleported on, so i placed a racetrack down off the ledge..and then the exact same behaviour as in WvW.

so the key is jumping from no teleport spot to an area that has pathing and a jump was needed. i was not able to reproduce it without jumping.  furthermore the backport marker does not even have to be anywhere near where you stand or want to go to, this i noticed when i tried to make the shadow return work in my guild hall - to use it mid air one has to swap template. (have not tested template-swap shadow return in WvW, but if the matter is addressed then both options should be looked into)

making sword 2 instant should fix that skill, but as i figured it would not fix shadow return with template swap, which has the same problem. 

ultimately i think those skills simply should not attempt to teleport you anywhere if there is no valid path to the marked location, the problem may be caused as the skills can teleport you towards the mark from out of range, so if no valid path within the range is found it might try a valid path closing in on the destination. thus there needs to be a check more or less like if there is no exact valid path within say 5k range (much more than the skills have), then no port not even somewhat towards the mark should occur.

edit:
using my guildhall setup i figured i try other class options if they work. the following skills i tried also would work for such a glitch:

• necro: fleshwurm. - place the wurm on some random valid position before going to the no port spot.
• willbender: flash combo - same as sword 2, can place a backport even on a no port location. 

if i can think of other teleports that work from out of range and can be activated midair, i might add them here. not sure how targeted teleports from out of range behave here, like sword 2 first skill, phase traversal, JI etc., cannot test that in guildhall.

Edited July 27 by bq pd.2148

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

9 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

are you certain this specific glitch with the sword 2 follow up worked during the time that jumping would cause the skill to not teleport at all?

aside from that especially 

I can't say for certain, as I have been aware that there was an exploit for years (people assuming that I've done it myself when all I did was stealth up and hide in the objective somewhere when it was capped), but I wasn't aware of what it actually was until reading this thread. So I might be wrong. That said:

9 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

got me thinking a bit and i did some testing in guildhall and on our own structures in WvW.

you see all those locations where they use sword 2 followup are no teleport spots. meaning you cannot use shortbow 5 there or any other regular shadowstep.
however both sword 2 followup as well as shadow return (shadowstep utility skill follow up) will try to teleport you even if there is no valid path.  for example place the return point on a wall, jump out and move a bit away from the structure, then activate the followup and get teleported right next to the wall. you cant even shoot a shortbow 5 at the ledge of the wall, because you get an error.

1. first i tried in guildhall with 2 spaced racetracks (both being fully no teleport areas) and it didn't work at all.
2. then i went on our homeborder where we had SE tower that was prominetly featured in the video so i check the nature of the terrain there.  - funnily enough while there an opposing deadeye jumped in and ported a virtuoso + FB in, killed them all at lord - . i noticed while the position from where they use the jump is a no teleport spot, the destination is not.
3. so back to the guildhall i went. the natural terrain can be teleported on, so i placed a racetrack down off the ledge..and then the exact same behaviour as in WvW.

so the key is jumping from no teleport spot to an area that has pathing and a jump was needed. i was not able to reproduce it without jumping.  furthermore the backport marker does not even have to be anywhere near where you stand or want to go to, this i noticed when i tried to make the shadow return work in my guild hall - to use it mid air one has to swap template. (have not tested template-swap shadow return in WvW, but if the matter is addressed then both options should be looked into)

From what you've said here about the return marker placement being irrelevant for the exploit to work, I don't think that either the jump cancel or the stunbreak/instant cast change would have affected the exploit at all. 

9 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

making sword 2 instant should fix that skill, but as i figured it would not fix shadow return with template swap, which has the same problem. 

ultimately i think those skills simply should not attempt to teleport you anywhere if there is no valid path to the marked location, the problem may be caused as the skills can teleport you towards the mark from out of range, so if no valid path within the range is found it might try a valid path closing in on the destination. thus there needs to be a check more or less like if there is no exact valid path within say 5k range (much more than the skills have), then no port not even somewhat towards the mark should occur.

edit:
using my guildhall setup i figured i try other class options if they work. the following skills i tried also would work for such a glitch:

• necro: fleshwurm. - place the wurm on some random valid position before going to the no port spot.
• willbender: flash combo - same as sword 2, can place a backport even on a no port location. 

if i can think of other teleports that work from out of range and can be activated midair, i might add them here. not sure how targeted teleports from out of range behave here, like sword 2 first skill, phase traversal, JI etc., cannot test that in guildhall.

I bolded the critical part. It sounds like that to fix it, you'd need to change all ports that can be activated without a target & out of range of the target to also check if there's a valid path in range, which is interesting as I thought they made such a change back in vanilla. It's also interesting that all the skills that I can think of that might reproduce such an exploit are introduced by an expansion, I can't think of any other vanilla skill that behaves like this. Kinda implies that they either fixed sword 2 then broke it again when they removed the jump cancel thing, or that they never changed it at all as changing it broke it too much, then they conveniently forgot about this interaction when designing new stuff. 

Other skills that I'd try are judge's intervention on guardian, the port on shiro for rev, infiltrator's signet on thief. I'm also curious if the clone swap skill on mesmer sword would do something similar, if you managed to place the clone somewhere you couldn't normally port to. 

[blitzbirne.2890]

On 7/27/2024 at 12:56 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I can't say for certain, as I have been aware that there was an exploit for years (people assuming that I've done it myself when all I did was stealth up and hide in the objective somewhere when it was capped), but I wasn't aware of what it actually was until reading this thread. So I might be wrong. That said:

From what you've said here about the return marker placement being irrelevant for the exploit to work, I don't think that either the jump cancel or the stunbreak/instant cast change would have affected the exploit at all. 

I bolded the critical part. It sounds like that to fix it, you'd need to change all ports that can be activated without a target & out of range of the target to also check if there's a valid path in range, which is interesting as I thought they made such a change back in vanilla. It's also interesting that all the skills that I can think of that might reproduce such an exploit are introduced by an expansion, I can't think of any other vanilla skill that behaves like this. Kinda implies that they either fixed sword 2 then broke it again when they removed the jump cancel thing, or that they never changed it at all as changing it broke it too much, then they conveniently forgot about this interaction when designing new stuff. 

Other skills that I'd try are judge's intervention on guardian, the port on shiro for rev, infiltrator's signet on thief. I'm also curious if the clone swap skill on mesmer sword would do something similar, if you managed to place the clone somewhere you couldn't normally port to. 

Well the focus should be the professions that have a portal to get many people inside. The you could work on the other ones ....

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

5 hours ago, blitzbirne.2890 said:

Well the focus should be the professions that have a portal to get many people inside. The you could work on the other ones ....

Erm, no. The fact that thieves have a portal is not actually relevant to how the exploit should be fixed. We've already established that the problem is likely an issue with how the server processes ports which means fixing it would likely affect everyone that can use a targeted port, not just sword thieves. Either you're happy to fix it for everyone and change every skill the exploit works on or you're basically just conducting a witch hunt. 

As I said earlier, changing how ports are coded would affect every class and that (plus ANet's history of leaving things bugged for no reason other than laziness) is probably why it's never been fixed and why it probably never will be.