Revenant Spear Needs Fixing

[Malus.2184]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Holding a facet for a couple of seconds longer to compensate for using a CC to break a bar when needed is probably more likely to speed up your run, due to the increased damage your whole team does to a recently broken enemy if nothing else. Allowing your quickness buffer to drop from 30 seconds to 25 is probably not going to affect your performance at all, but getting that breakbar broken faster probably will.

Sometimes, the optimal way to handle the encounter in front of you is to use the skills in a different fashion to how you'd use them when beating down a golem.

PS Were you in Snowcrows' HTCM or CerusCM world first group? Because if you're not in a guild that competes with Hardstuck for world firsts, I don't think you're in much of a position to throw shade at Teapot.

GW2 content is mostly difficulty-wise easy because of the limitations inherent in the performance aspect of the combat system.

No, I have an education in occupational therapy where I'm educated to evaluate systems professionally. Everything is a system created from many individual aspects coming together to form the system. This combined with my interest in gaming makes me able to see the trends and understand the individual components of the system in place. 

People like TeaPot are amateurs and thus heavily affected by their biases and lack the tools to make an in-depth analysis as theirs is only on the phenomenological level rather than properly understanding the building blocks of the systems used.

Can you tell me what the similarity in design is between HTCM and Cerus Legendary? I'm genuinely interested because none of TeaPots streams have ever addressed this. I saw it instantly because I have the necessary knowledge to spot those things.

You're also correct and incorrect about what you say about encounters. You only have that freedom in encounters that are below a certain difficulty. Any combat encounter is by design created in a way where you need to provide X DPS in total to beat it. If your contribution is lower then other people need to provide more to the total. 

In such an environment having something is no buff, it's a requirement depending on the difficulty tuning and the Boons in GW2 provide such a large amount of total player performance that lacking them even for a moment can be crippling.

Edited Thursday at 11:30 AM by Malus.2184

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Well that was a major lot of word salad there.

Also to discredit Teapot, even if I am not a fan or follower, is just ridiculous. To even hint he is an amateur with the time and effort he puts into things is blindly disrespectful and just willful ignorance of the person and what they have done for the community. I don't agree with a lot of his takes but he has the experience to back up what he talks about as well as can demonstrate it.

Edited Thursday at 02:50 PM by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Malus.2184]

24 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Well that was a major lot of word salad there.

Also to discredit Teapot, even if I am not a fan or follower, is just ridiculous. To even hint he is an amateur with the time and effort he puts into things is blindly disrespectful and just willful ignorance of the person and what they have done for the community. I don't agree with a lot of his takes but he has the experience to back up what he talks about as well as can demonstrate it.

You can be an amateur in something even if you put in a lot of hours and effort. Thinking that you're good at something just because you do that is arrogant. The biggest benefit when doing something is to recognise and acknowledge your own limitations. For example, I no longer think I can see those things and I no longer think that I can perform on that level either. I KNOW that I can see those things and I KNOW that my age and various disabilities make me unable to perform at that level.

You have your age's worth of experience in being a human and I could inform you about things about human behaviour that you never even realised was real despite "only" having a 3½ year education and degree on the subject. That's the difference between doing something a lot and knowing the general details that go into something so you can extrapolate from it.

Who would you prefer to go to someone for surgery? Someone with many years of experience in cutting people open? Or would you prefer to go to the fresh out-of-med-school doctor who has an education in how things work?

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

 

Who would you prefer to go to someone for surgery? Someone with many years of experience in cutting people open? Or would you prefer to go to the fresh out-of-med-school doctor who has an education in how things work?

Fresh out of med school one

[Malus.2184]

52 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Fresh out of med school one

I knew that was the honest answer people would choose since by the reasoning Ravenwulfe uses the former has a vast amount of experience and should thus be the better choice, the latter is vastly more knowledgeable and thus inherently more competent in the field 😛

Edited Thursday at 05:53 PM by Malus.2184

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 minute ago, Malus.2184 said:

I knew that was the honest answer people would choose since by the reasoning Ravenwulfe uses the former has a vast amount of experience and should thus be the better choice, the latter is vastly more knowledgeable and thus inherently more competent in the field 😛

Your comparison is faulty and shows your inexperience since you are comparing the doctor who has been in med school to the student fresh out of med school. But if you want to continue on your logical fallacy, you're more than welcome to it.

[Malus.2184]

9 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Your comparison is faulty and shows your inexperience since you are comparing the doctor who has been in med school to the student fresh out of med school. But if you want to continue on your logical fallacy, you're more than welcome to it.

No, I never called the other person a doctor. I only said 

3 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Someone with many years of experience in cutting people open?

No medical knowledge is required only experience in cutting people open. With your own reasoning in your argument, this makes the person a better surgeon than the doctor fresh out of med-school since they've put in most likely a thousand hours into cutting people open. YOU are the one who has to interpret them as being as  a doctor to make the reasoning in your previous argument make sense.

This is the same reasoning you used in your own argumentation that TeaPot was better at analysing encounters than I was because he spent hours in the game presented as absurdum ad reductio.

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

That may be in your opinion but trying to use BDO or Lost Ark of all games as your bar is pretty much digging under the floor at this point.

   I don't play them, but both have better combat system and much more visually appealing skills than WoW.

   WoW combat felt to me dated compared to Diablo II LoD and that was 20 years ago; latest Diablo games aren't even the kings in the ARPG genre anymore. Suggesting that GW2 should copy skills/abilities for a game which seemed dated two decades ago seems silly. The problem with BDO/LA is the economic model. Lately GW2 to me is becoming WoW in the sense that teir systems are becoming boring: there's nothing in Rev's scepter nor spear which feel appealing or exciting to me. Since February I've spent near 450 hours in Last Epoch, because GW2 outside doing the PvP daylies became a yawnfest to me...

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

29 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I don't play them, but both have better combat system and much more visually appealing skills than WoW.

If you don't play them then how can you make the judgment that they have better combat systems? You see I have and I can tell you they aren't better. Lost Ark definitely doesn't have a better combat system.

[Buran.3796]

11 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

If you don't play them then how can you make the judgment that they have better combat systems? You see I have and I can tell you they aren't better. Lost Ark definitely doesn't have a better combat system.

  Because a) I did tried both, since they are free and b) have seen players in them at both competitive tournaments and PvE and unlike in WoW, I enjoyed seing other players using their abilities in those games.

[draxynnic.3719]

Last I checked, you didn't have to have 3-4 years of postgraduate study to have an understanding of which builds work well in a game encounter and why. In fact, I'd say that's a situation where practical experience really does trump flashing degrees at people. I have degrees myself, but if someone has been a hobby pilot for years, I'm not going to claim that I understand how to fly their plane better than they do just because my studies included aeronautical physics.

The analogy you're making, about getting someone who "has experience in cutting people open" to do surgery, is obviously being made in bad faith, since the comparison here is that the top guilds have fairly high success rates, and your psychopath who apparently just cuts people up randomly is naturally going to have a poor success rate at surgery. Let me make my own that's a far better fit:

If I'd just been shot, I would absolutely take a combat medic who's been patching people up in a hot war for a couple of years with a high success rate, with or without formal qualifications, over someone fresh out of med school.

[Malus.2184]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Last I checked, you didn't have to have 3-4 years of postgraduate study to have an understanding of which builds work well in a game encounter and why. In fact, I'd say that's a situation where practical experience really does trump flashing degrees at people. I have degrees myself, but if someone has been a hobby pilot for years, I'm not going to claim that I understand how to fly their plane better than they do just because my studies included aeronautical physics.

Then it's a good thing I never said anything about builds. I talked about how any encounter is made, the elements that go into that and how the performance system limits that.

Both HTCM CerusLegendary are simplistic encounters in that none of them have an execution that requires the use of certain Utility skills. GW2 has a unique system in how utility skills are applied to execution that no other game has since you can swap Utility skills to fit the encounter. Imagine if you had an encounter where you had to have one person stand in a green circle to avoid a wipe and unless they used an ability that prevented or reduced damage they would die themselves. Now imagine the green circles spawning so fast that you're going to go through a full raid of ten before you have a reset, everyone would need to have an ability that reduced or prevented damage. GW2 is unable to do that due to the mutually exclusive nature of Utility skills. All future Legendary encounters have to follow a similar design paradigm, which will get boring after a while. While it's inevitable that mechanics will be recycled since only so many exist it'll happen really quickly in GW2 once really hard encounters become a thing since there are vanishingly few ways they can be designed within the current limitations and still be defeatable.

If an encounter requires a high DPS then the Utility Skills must be used for DPS rather than for the utility they provide. It would be a great design if an encounter needed a specific execution-ability and high DPS. That's impossible though since a high DPS excludes execution-ability and execution-ability excludes a high DPS.

Because Boons gives such a massive performance increase losing or missing out on Boons is horrible and lowers the amount of DPS that can be done significantly. This means that an encounter can never require an execution wherethe pålayers have to split while also having a high DPS requirement. Silent Surf CM did that and it felt horrible since the DPS of people was constantly lowered due to them having to leave the stack. Lonely Tower Eparch is the same, high health + players having to leave the stack = counter-productive as it lowers DPS and makes the health pool seem exceptionally spongy.

If an encounter goes in on execution then the race is on from the players how to bypass the execution to do more damage than intended. Raid Wing 7 is a good example of this where a Rev bubble can completely trivialise the impactful mechanics of both Sabina and Adir.

Stability being a binary yes/no to whether something affects you is horrible for encounter design as it results in the no-option needing to be exceedingly punishing and unable to play around with skill. You have to fully depend on someone else.

 

TeaPot has poured thousands of hours into this game and never realised it. After I got the knowledge it took me less than 20 hours to realise this.

[draxynnic.3719]

I see a wall of text that seems to basically say "Cerus CM had too much health", which basically everyone realised was the issue, but people who like problem-solving encounters are likely to try to see if they can find ways of doing it anyway, especially when the precise mechanics are still being identified. Meanwhile, you seem to be claiming that trading a damage utility for a utility that helps get through a mechanic is never worthwhile, while also giving an example of when a utility swap (or, rather, a legend swap) is used to trade damage to help get through a mechanic. And yet you're claiming that you know how to get through the content better than people who are actually getting through the content, because you have a piece of paper that says you've studied how to build content.

Reverting back to what started this, though, I really don't think using the Glint elite for the CC is the massive loss you describe. Most instanced content doesn't have strict DPS checks, succeeding a breakbar usually makes the team better off than whatever sacrifices you made to succeed that breakbar, and quickherald is generally forgiving enough that you can stop providing quickness until your other legend is up and your uptime will be fine because your buffer is big enough to do that. Maybe if you were needing to throw Chaotic Release on recharge you'd have a problem, but there aren't many fights that are that demanding on CC (maybe Samarog, but if your squad is phasing Samarog that quickly you're not lacking for damage).

Edited Saturday at 04:21 PM by draxynnic.3719

[vrauns.3215]

On 6/28/2024 at 7:36 AM, Malus.2184 said:

Then it's a good thing I never said anything about builds. I talked about how any encounter is made, the elements that go into that and how the performance system limits that.

Both HTCM CerusLegendary are simplistic encounters in that none of them have an execution that requires the use of certain Utility skills. GW2 has a unique system in how utility skills are applied to execution that no other game has since you can swap Utility skills to fit the encounter. Imagine if you had an encounter where you had to have one person stand in a green circle to avoid a wipe and unless they used an ability that prevented or reduced damage they would die themselves. Now imagine the green circles spawning so fast that you're going to go through a full raid of ten before you have a reset, everyone would need to have an ability that reduced or prevented damage. GW2 is unable to do that due to the mutually exclusive nature of Utility skills. All future Legendary encounters have to follow a similar design paradigm, which will get boring after a while. While it's inevitable that mechanics will be recycled since only so many exist it'll happen really quickly in GW2 once really hard encounters become a thing since there are vanishingly few ways they can be designed within the current limitations and still be defeatable.

If an encounter requires a high DPS then the Utility Skills must be used for DPS rather than for the utility they provide. It would be a great design if an encounter needed a specific execution-ability and high DPS. That's impossible though since a high DPS excludes execution-ability and execution-ability excludes a high DPS.

Because Boons gives such a massive performance increase losing or missing out on Boons is horrible and lowers the amount of DPS that can be done significantly. This means that an encounter can never require an execution wherethe pålayers have to split while also having a high DPS requirement. Silent Surf CM did that and it felt horrible since the DPS of people was constantly lowered due to them having to leave the stack. Lonely Tower Eparch is the same, high health + players having to leave the stack = counter-productive as it lowers DPS and makes the health pool seem exceptionally spongy.

If an encounter goes in on execution then the race is on from the players how to bypass the execution to do more damage than intended. Raid Wing 7 is a good example of this where a Rev bubble can completely trivialise the impactful mechanics of both Sabina and Adir.

Stability being a binary yes/no to whether something affects you is horrible for encounter design as it results in the no-option needing to be exceedingly punishing and unable to play around with skill. You have to fully depend on someone else.

 

TeaPot has poured thousands of hours into this game and never realised it. After I got the knowledge it took me less than 20 hours to realise this.

Pure ai copy pasta from this guy.

[Malus.2184]

5 hours ago, vrauns.3215 said:

Pure ai copy pasta from this guy.

Your cope is delicious. You know subconsciously these issues are real even if you pretend they're fake. Also, how can something that complicated be ai text? AI texts can only sample what other people have written before and no one has to my knowledge written this before.

Edited 9 hours ago by Malus.2184

[Sereath.1428]

@Malus.2184

Good posts, thank you for sharing your thought process.

People keep wanting to believe that: More playtime hours equals somehow being better at game design.
Comedy.

More hours of anything means nothing when most of the time it just means getting used to doing the same things over and over again, after getting comfortable doing and thinking in a certain way only.

Listening to Teapot daydream about their perfect GW2 plans and/or their dream MMO game is certainly... something.
I really like their enthusiasm, but they are not suitable for game development at this point in time.

And hiring ex-pvp/wvw players to do balance and skill design was also certainly something else.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sereath.1428