No more gimmick weapons for ele

[VexoKyle.4817]

Who else is tired of another gimmick weapon for ele being added. I don’t mind having the option for the few that like it. But needing to focus on doing even more to do even anything substantial is tiring with also having the attunement swap mechanic as its core no matter the build. First it was hammer the orb mechanic was okay at first but after a time it grew annoying needed to keep them up. Needing to press that 3 key after every attunement or you take a dive. Then we got pistol. The bullet mechanic is just as bad. It’s clunky and feels awful to use. Also with no real synergy with the off hands least in my opinion. Leaves it in a less than desirable place. 
And now we have spear. I do love its animations it’s beautiful. But the a scrying mechanic is another gimmick I’m not interested in. I know it’s still in beta but it feels so rushed trying to spam skills out once you place it. And also gives you no time to even direct the full skill with its minimal radius on the skill. I just would have loved to of just gotten a bad kitten weapon the feels fluent in its use. Even the summon weapons feels so much better to use then the real weapons we’ve. Been given recently. So please anet you don’t need to keep adding gimmicks to make things interesting. Just make it work with the current traits and syncs well. And give it a few options at different play styles, like most of the vanilla weapons do. 

[Dadnir.5038]

The only gimmick I'm open to for elementalist is the AA with both a melee skill chain and a ranged skill.

[VexoKyle.4817]

48 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The only gimmick I'm open to for elementalist is the AA with both a melee skill chain and a ranged skill.

Honestly that is what I was hoping ele spear was going to be 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

im okay with gimmicks, it gives new weapons a unique feel/playstyle instead of being a core weapon 2.0. what im not okay with is when the same gimmick is on every. single. attunement. and then you begin to wonder if theres still an actual weapon behind the gimmick

pve hammer is too centered on the grand finale loop while every other skill are simply filler skills and additionally made purposely weak due to the offensive orb bonuses being too strong

the gimmick on pistol takes over every skill in its kit and then most of them are just shooting some form of a projectile at a foe

spear is too centered on the etchings and could honestly be repuposed into an offhand in its current state. #3 being mostly nonskills additionally limits the filler space between etchings (leaving autoattack and #2). you could probably combine just the etchings with some existing mainhand weapons and end up with a more cohesive kit

[ippy.9048]

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

[Sarm.5923]

1 minute ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a simple baseline, especially when the elite specs all add a form of complexity on top of whatever weapon and utility setup you choose. And since (from what I've heard) core ele isn't really viable for anything, I feel it's reasonable to be wary of new weapons that come pre-built with a way to screw yourself over by design.

[ippy.9048]

In my opinion, if you're seeking simplicity, you should play other classes in Guild Wars 2. That's why the classes are divided. You should change your class according to your playstyle.

"It's like saying, 'Make the class fit my playstyle!' Isn't that a bit greedy?"

[Sarm.5923]

1 minute ago, ippy.9048 said:

In my opinion, if you're seeking simplicity, you should play other classes in Guild Wars 2. That's why the classes are divided. You should change your class according to your playstyle.

"It's like saying, 'Make the class fit my playstyle!' Isn't that a bit greedy?"

There is no other class that utilizes the 4 classical elements in a thematically wizardy way.

[ippy.9048]

However, isn't it greedy to demand that a class be completely redesigned, breaking the grand concept? Honestly, I have to sympathize with Anet quite a bit.

[Palador.2170]

I agree with the "It's overcomplicated" opinion, but I think that about the spear on several classes.

I see this as a growing problem with GW2. I hope they correct themselves on this before new weapons become unplayable.

 

[ippy.9048]

I understand that this is a matter of different perspectives on what we want from the game, and we may never agree. However, I am very fond of the design philosophy of the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist. The need to constantly switch between the four elements is fantastic and unique. When I play other classes, I feel like I might fall asleep from boredom.

So, when I'm told to "stop it," I get a bit passionate out of surprise.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

25 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

Elementalist is all about "adapt to the situation at hand" instead of "smash all skills off-cooldown in a pattern".

A-net has turned Elementalist into wannabe button smasher over the years.
 

[Sarm.5923]

4 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

However, isn't it greedy to demand that a class be completely redesigned, breaking the grand concept? Honestly, I have to sympathize with Anet quite a bit.

I don't think many people are demanding that, though. From what I've seen, people are just complaining about spear's skill5 as its biggest pain point, to the point that its other abilities feel overshadowed by the need to cram stuff into a short duration window that was already proven to be an unpopular mechanic when hammer's 5-second orb duration was first released.

In my opinion, I don't see how much, if any, skill expression is actually lost by massively lengthening the etch duration - hell, make it last the duration of its cooldown. Players would still generally want to fire off that ability ASAP, but it would also allow people to tactically hold it for better timing if needed. It already has a built-in restriction where you want to limit your positioning (something well-known to be a frustrating and often unpopular design in two different, slower, MMOs that feature similar rune abilities) and it's probably secondarily responsible for the other abilities feeling so weak as a result, too.

It also passively limits your utility skill flexibility too, because if you feel like you need to slot in Arcane Blast just to make the etching work well most of the time, that's a skill slot being taxed that other weapons don't natively demand of the player.

[Rittsu.5698]

32 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

I've to agree with this, even tough you soared rude. My actual problem with this game is that my favorite fantasy (necro) is a braindead press 1 boring rotation and make a lot of damage. I would kill for a Necromancer Piano.

[ippy.9048]

I am not an expert player, but from my understanding, the difficulty levels are clearly distinguished among the magic classes. The Necromancer is the easiest and most casual. Therefore, I think it's perfectly fine that you can deal a lot of damage by just pressing 1 repeatedly.

A game absolutely needs to have easy classes.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

The issue to me :  "gimmick" is divided by elements, but  ask the same rotation with copy-pasted skills, with short delay to succeed.
It's fun 20 minutes, but no identity, no reactivity ... and it's hard, already to charge the Etching, but even to hit anyone with air/earth/water.

Edited June 30 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Markus.6415]

I actually think the design behind spear is 10x better than pistol and hammer combined. But it definately suffers from some bugs, too short etching duration and undertuned damage output. If the etching finales would have really smashed some big numbers on the screen, I feel like the perception from the community would have been much better. But when Mesmer spear 2 does more damage with just a handful of seconds of cd to it... underwhelming. And that's the feeling that stays unfortunately.

In terms of skill visuals I'm completely in love with it and want nothing changed.

We've given enough feedback and I'm sure Anet will work with those 3 major problems and might actually bring a strong weapon at release.

Ah yes and Fulgor... that's a very, very weird design. It can't crit, only power attribute increases it's damage, but no other passive damage buffs (like transcendend tempest for example) and it doesn't give Jadesphere energy. 

[Rittsu.5698]

44 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

I am not an expert player, but from my understanding, the difficulty levels are clearly distinguished among the magic classes. The Necromancer is the easiest and most casual. Therefore, I think it's perfectly fine that you can deal a lot of damage by just pressing 1 repeatedly.

A game absolutely needs to have easy classes.

I agree, thats no problem with this, and thats why i agreed with the comment about Ele maybe is not designed for that person. My problem is Necro being my favorite mage and being the easy one, i would have no problem with Ele being braindead.

[VexoKyle.4817]

1 hour ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

I’m not saying that I don’t love elementalist complexity of its elements I have been playing ele since the launch of the game and have 18 chars there are eles. But we have an already complex class as it is. We don’t need to add to it by bring unneeded quirks to the weapon. Also seeing as most elite specs give another level as it is. We don’t need that third Level. It’s why I used to also love core engi, with all its kits though that complexity as some what diminished over the years. But if anet want to give us a weapon like hammer, pistol and spear with that extra level they have at least got to make it worth my while. Right now I can play sword/focus or warhorn with no extra gimmick and do even better and sync with the core class/elites far better. Whilst also giving me extra utility. What this post was meant to say was that abet are over complexing things without actually bringing anything to the table, or giving us a worthwhile reason to use it. I welcome the extra challenge but as far as I can see anet isn’t giving me a reason to use it. 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Rittsu.5698 said:

I've to agree with this, even tough you soared rude. My actual problem with this game is that my favorite fantasy (necro) is a braindead press 1 boring rotation and make a lot of damage. I would kill for a Necromancer Piano.

You realize that even snowcrow qualify the necromancer's current dps builds as "fast paced". The current optimal rotations for necromancers' build don't involved much more AA than the elementalist's build does.

It's totally possible for you to play elementalist like you play your necromancer. After all, elementalist have auto attacks as well.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Elementalist is about swapping attunement and constantly smashing skills, for their own purpose; not smashing  indifferently f1 f3 f4, and 5 4 2 3 5 because it's the only way to deal damage and every #X have the same effects anyway.
The whole weapon  is designed arround Etching only, and most of skills look like fillers actually, copy-paste in all elements, only to operate Etching.
It's a bit exaggerated, they gave some "interest" to air. But even there it doesn't really work : fulgor no crit, totally useless without #4 (or you bodyblock targets, with a ranged weapon), #4 no damage, so what's the point of #3 but be a filler before #5 ?
No need to speak about weaver dual skills.

 

Edited June 30 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[ippy.9048]

Sorry, but I really don't understand what you're saying in this post. Which parts are copy and paste? Are you saying that the spear skill set is designed for F5 and meaningless unless you press F5? It looks the opposite to me. F5 is for when your surroundings are secure, and you use it only in critical moments. It's like a special move. I think it's designed so that you can't be constantly aware of F5.

 

In short, F5 is an ultimate move. So, normally you fight with the other skills.

 

It seems to me that it is designed this way.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

4 hours ago, VexoKyle.4817 said:

Honestly that is what I was hoping ele spear was going to be 

This is what many players were hoping spears would be for ALL professions.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Look at AA, they're all identicals : single target, velocity, cast time.
3/4 of #2 are identicals: 5 targets, damage + the common elemental condi, 15sec cd etc. Fulgor is the exception, yet it is not finalized.
#3 "Next spear skill does Whatever" and not finalized either as AA can consume buff, or fulgor for example can't crit.
#4 "foes at the center take more"
#5 ... #5.

Obviously we already had similarity in design or copy-pasted skills; daggers cones, dagger dashs, warhorn #5 ... Yet on ALL elements and only adding "Burning/Vulnerability/chill/Cripple"  as differentiation is a bit light may be !?
Etching with so short time, clunky unleash, but the "chance" you can fully charge it + the vicious boon and field oblige you to use it first and stay in current element.  It goes against the grain of elementalist, unless you're cat-golem enjoyer.
Same for #3; only one skill get the buff ? Don't you call that a filler ?
AA and #2 should have more identity : bounce, spread, velocity, a big fat one with longer cast, aoe blast, etc. May be Etchings could have different "difficulties" between elements; or work with attunement swap (Piling the effect idk). #3 and dual attacks should be reworked.

 

I know it's beta, we're not fully aware of the potential, may be we're doing wrong, and may be they didn't show us the whole  idea and progress ... but for now, it's lackluster. And weak DPS anyway.

Edited June 30 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Sarm.5923]

1 hour ago, ippy.9048 said:

Sorry, but I really don't understand what you're saying in this post. Which parts are copy and paste? Are you saying that the spear skill set is designed for F5 and meaningless unless you press F5? It looks the opposite to me. F5 is for when your surroundings are secure, and you use it only in critical moments. It's like a special move. I think it's designed so that you can't be constantly aware of F5.

Unfortunately I think "designed around skill5 and meaningless without it" is the design goal. The more damage is packed into an ability, the more important it is that you use that ability ASAP and as often as possible. Otherwise, any time spent with it off-cooldown but unused is time wasted delaying and permanently reducing the number of those abilities you could have used during a fight. The only time you want to delay using certain abilities is if you know ahead of time that something's going to prevent you from getting that damage out, either because you might have to move out of range or something like an immunity has gone up.

From what I understand, it's the entire reason why elementalist is spammy in the first place. People don't bounce around elements for the hell of it, but because abilities are constantly coming off of cooldown and you need to use them up. What that means for spear is that you want to use those elemental itchings immediately, because they may be the lion's share of your damage, and then your time is spent using lesser cooldowns (or your chosen elite's mechanics) in the meantime until it's time to use the etchings again.