diminishing returns on afk farmer on the same spot and killing the same mob. easy. sorted.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/21/2024 at 2:08 AM, illuminati.8453 said:

Diminishing returns means nothing to someone who parks 24/7.

Depends entirely on how steep the diminishing return is and how it's implemented.

[illuminati.8453]

13 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

What's your source?

Wiki clearly says it DR indeed increases to a point there are zero drops.

"Once triggered, the impact of DR will increase until you won't get any loot at all anymore."

Also there are not many variables for afk farming at all:
"The more often a character loots from similar foes within an area, the more quickly DR triggers." - Similar foes, within an area, that's it.

The person that wrote that entry doesn't know what they are talking about then.  It *never* reaches zero. 

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, illuminati.8453 said:

The person that wrote that entry doesn't know what they are talking about then.  It *never* reaches zero. 

It can reach zero, however. Anet doesn't have to adhere to some dictionary definition after all.

[Zebulous.2934]

7 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Name some places this happens where it would be a problem. The only places players camp farm are AFK farming spots, it would ruin that, which is the idea.

The entire Heart of Thorns expansion.  The respawn rate of mobs in that region is extremely fast, especially the damned pocket raptors.  The faster spawn rate is quite a shock if a player has only played the base game up until that point.  HoT maps see plenty of traffic because it has the best mettas. Your proposed change would drastically reduce the daily haul of meta participants.  All of the incidental loot, from mobs, as players run through pre-meta events would be reduced to nothing.  It adds up, the meta players would notice. 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

18 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Your proposed change would drastically reduce the daily haul of meta participants. 

Putting it more in line with other metas, making it more balanced, perfect.

[kiroho.4738]

8 hours ago, illuminati.8453 said:

The person that wrote that entry doesn't know what they are talking about then.  It *never* reaches zero. 

And again what is your source?

You say "this dude is wrong" and further say "It's like I say" but on what base?!...  "Trust me bro"?....

You make a random claim without any base, without any sources, without any facts that supports it.
In other words, your claim is totally worthless.

[kiroho.4738]

3 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Putting it more in line with other metas, making it more balanced, perfect.

How is making popular metas less popular a good thing?...

[Zebulous.2934]

2 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

How is making popular metas less popular a good thing?...

Perhaps their goal isn't fun.  Perhaps Dean's goal is simply balance.  If a game is fair and balanced it must be a good game.  Right Dean?

[Dean Calaway.9718]

11 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

How is making popular metas less popular a good thing?...

How is making metas that don't have excess pay above baseline less popular a good thing?

[kiroho.4738]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

How is making metas that don't have excess pay above baseline less popular a good thing?

So because bad metas exist, you want to make good metas worse to be more "balanced" with the bad ones?

That's your logic?...

[Shuzuru.3651]

On 7/22/2024 at 2:25 PM, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Name some places this happens where it would be a problem. The only places players camp farm are AFK farming spots, it would ruin that, which is the idea.

Core tyria + some lw maps, on every place where there is an heart where killing mob progress the heart, if there is enough people (and sometime, enough is like 3 people), you kinda end up spawn kill mobs.

[Astralporing.1957]

20 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

How is making metas that don't have excess pay above baseline less popular a good thing?

You don't make trash rewards metas more popular by nerfing decent reward metas. This way you just make people play less overall. Besides if HoT metas get nerfed to the point it would affect their popularity, people would move to more rewarding metas, not to less rewarding ones.

[Zebulous.2934]

I admit that the @Dean Calaway.9718 would be supremely effective at driving afk farmers from the game.  It cannot fail in that regard.

I do think that Dean's proposal would cause too much collateral damage to other aspects of the game.  I am certain that I cannot think of them all.

My chief concern would be high traffic areas during peak hours. 
Next I would be concerned about the social aspect of the game:

While it may seem that Afk farmers are just standing there creepily, I am certain that many of them are engaged in social interactions. 
Discord has drastically reduced the amount of social traffic in map and local chat.  I do think that many afk farmers are grinding materials and gold for their guild while speaking to their guild mates over discord.  It is quite possible that these folks are helping players by means not visible to players immediately around them.  I recognize that people are being pushed to multitask to a ridiculous degree these days. It could feel like a waste of time to park a character in town to socialize when that character could be passively doing something. 

The thing is: an afk farmer already has the game running. If the inspiration strikes them they may begin to actively play the game and pursue a goal in game.  If the game isn't running they may not feel it worth the effort to launch the game and the inspiration is directed away from Gw2.

While botting is a problem, exterminating the afk farmers isn't the most helpful idea.  

[Lambent.6375]

I suspect they were already nerfing the farm spots of afk farmers, it was probably one of their first defenses since they couldn't outright ban them.

Why do I think this?

On my farming route for Iron ore, I would frequently go to Martyr's Tomb that has Angry Spirits that drop piles of Radiant Dust. I think they may have been as high as 8-10s back then, it was a popular spot for afk farmers.   Before the afk farmers started showing up in this location, I would always kill the spirits for some dust on my way to the rich iron node.

 

One day I noticed the afk farmers stopped coming to the location, and dust no longer dropped like it used to, so I assumed they nerfed it.

 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 7/23/2024 at 2:06 PM, kiroho.4738 said:

So because bad metas exist, you want to make good metas worse to be more "balanced" with the bad ones?

That's your logic?...

So because over powered classes exist you wanna nerf them to be more inline with every other class.

Same energy.

15 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Core tyria + some lw maps, on every place where there is an heart where killing mob progress the heart, if there is enough people (and sometime, enough is like 3 people), you kinda end up spawn kill mobs.

How is anyone ever gonna live without such riches... And those mods already only have a chance at loot, not guaranteed, the profit loss on those wouldn't even register with players unless you were actively tracking gold per hour and even then the loss would be minimal.

When have you ever heard of an active gold farm that had you going around PvE maps killing trash mobs? You've never, because the gold per hour of doing is ridiculously low, unless you're multi boxing AFK farming.

10 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

would cause too much collateral damage to other aspects of the game

Only a little 😉

And the system could easily be tuned to take several kills on spawn before the mobs start having a cool down for loot.

10 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

While botting is a problem, exterminating the afk farmers isn't the most helpful idea.

Exterminating AFK farmers should be a priority, and I'll tell you why with one word: inflation.

Before EoD 100 gems cost around 28-32 gold, today that's 39-43 gold, and that's because with about ~12 bots you can make between 200-300 gold an hour.

A normal player doesn't even come close to that, so normal players keep having to work harder and harder as their gold coins keep losing buying power.

[Zebulous.2934]

People like getting loot though.  If the materials are removed, or replaced with trophies, players lose that little dopamine hit.  Not everyone plays to experience the poetry of combat.  They will go to other games where mobs drop loot.

Hell, when I play skyrim I still loot every bandit. I can be late game with a hundred thousand gold and I will still stop to loot seven gold.

[Daxia.1425]

I dont see why AFK farming is suddenly an issue. Some guy made real elaborate youtubes about it, gave his data to Anet and nothing happenend for years. And now they starting to do something. It makes me wonder if it now hurts them. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

How is anyone ever gonna live without such riches... And those mods already only have a chance at loot, not guaranteed, the profit loss on those wouldn't even register with players unless you were actively tracking gold per hour and even then the loss would be minimal.

When have you ever heard of an active gold farm that had you going around PvE maps killing trash mobs? You've never, because the gold per hour of doing is ridiculously low, unless you're multi boxing AFK farming.

It's not much but that's basically the principal income/loot source of a new player, so your main target would be new player loot, and that's a terrible new player experience.

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Exterminating AFK farmers should be a priority, and I'll tell you why with one word: inflation.

Before EoD 100 gems cost around 28-32 gold, today that's 39-43 gold, and that's because with about ~12 bots you can make between 200-300 gold an hour.

A normal player doesn't even come close to that, so normal players keep having to work harder and harder as their gold coins keep losing buying power.

You don't know how this game economy works, don't you?

Farmer, and Afk player even more don't generate any gold. Their income came from material, sold on the tp, so it's other players gold, and since there is tax on the transaction, it actually remove gold from the game, so it's causing deflation, not inflation.

If you want a culprit for inflation, it's the wizard vaut, which increased quite a lot the quantity of gold in the game, actually causing inflation.

[kiroho.4738]

17 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

So because over powered classes exist you wanna nerf them to be more inline with every other class.

Same energy.

Nobody here ever talked about classes. It's about meta events. lol?...

Not "same energy", you are literally trying to talk your way out of your own claims.

Probably because after multiple comments you are still not able to answer my question -> how does any player benefit from popular metas becoming less popular?

PS. I can tell you exactly how players benefit from OP classes getting nerfed, so again, not "same energy" 😉 

[kiroho.4738]

15 hours ago, Daxia.1425 said:

I dont see why AFK farming is suddenly an issue.

It's not suddenly at all. Afk farmers started becoming a problem since around Bitterfrost release in November 2016.

 

15 hours ago, Daxia.1425 said:

Some guy made real elaborate youtubes about it, gave his data to Anet and nothing happenend for years.

Oh, but there did. Since Bitterfrost.
I myself had an alt account getting banned because of afk farming. Learning my lesson.

And over the time Anet were more or less active in taking down afk farmers. The problem is simply the work it requires. It's not cheap to have even 1-2 people jumping around the maps whispering people, checking if they are afk farming.
Also it's not easy to actually draw the line between unattended and attended gameplay, as there are people practically afk farming, but able to react within a few minutes.

With the new timer, they generally get rid of all afk farmers who are completely afk. a) This is an automated solution -> no more ressources for someone checking everything manually and b) the remaining farmers who not get kicked are much easier to identify as botters.

[Asurastafarian.9708]

I don't afk farm mobs, I follow a set pattern in a large area to get the various mats I want and I'm gone in 30 mins to an hour (so others can have a chance to farm). It used to really kitten me off seeing several necros and engineers parked in my farm path even when I'd come back hours later. I reported them many times in the past so I'm glad anet finally did something about these cheaters. 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 7/24/2024 at 11:03 PM, Zebulous.2934 said:

People like getting loot though.

And they'll keep getting it, but NOT if they stand still in the same place killing the same trash mob ad nauseum.

On 7/24/2024 at 11:36 PM, Daxia.1425 said:

I dont see why AFK farming is suddenly an issue

 

On 7/24/2024 at 11:36 PM, Daxia.1425 said:

Some guy made real elaborate youtubes about it

 

On 7/24/2024 at 11:36 PM, Daxia.1425 said:

now they starting to do something

You answered your own question on those 3 quotes.

On 7/24/2024 at 11:39 PM, Shuzuru.3651 said:

so your main target would be new player loot

No, it isn't, new players don't stand on the same place farming the same mob, and AFK farmers don't camp on starting maps, or even vanilla maps in general with few exceptions such as Harathi Hinterlands, so you're making a false statement in an effort to maintain the status quo.

20 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Not "same energy", you are literally trying to talk your way out of your own claims.

Probably because after multiple comments you are still not able to answer my question -> how does any player benefit from popular metas becoming less popular?

Exactly the same energy and here's how: GW2 releases fairly few content when compared to other MMOs so it's crucial to make sure it stays ever green.

Having metas that pay way above base line means the general community flocks to that hand full and completely ignores the rest, leaving most of an already small game feeling dead.

It's no secret to anyone GW2 has the reputation of being dead.

That is how players benefit from popular metas becoming "less popular" i.e. an even distribution of players across all the metas in game, exactly like balanced classes don't force everyone into 1 single OP spec.

20 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

I myself had an alt account getting banned because of afk farming.

And there's the reason for all the resistance, at least you admit it.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:06 AM, kiroho.4738 said:

So because bad metas exist, you want to make good metas worse to be more "balanced" with the bad ones?

That's your logic?...

Harrison Bergeron universe logic 😄

[Dean Calaway.9718]

10 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It's no secret to anyone GW2 has the reputation of being dead.

 

6 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Whatever, I don't really care. Not from a "wE aLl KnOw Gw2 iS dEaD" kid. 😉 

Nice strawman, first time?

[Shuzuru.3651]

10 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

No, it isn't, new players don't stand on the same place farming the same mob, and AFK farmers don't camp on starting maps, or even vanilla maps in general with few exceptions such as Harathi Hinterlands, so you're making a false statement in an effort to maintain the status quo

Hum, from what i understand, you never mention that, you mention removing loot when newly mobs where instant killed. I did a map completion recently (gift of explo, yeah...) and if there is something I can tell you, it's that spawn killing mobs could be a good description of my experience, overrall (thanksfully, not on every heart...). So that's not really a false statement, that's what it is, that rule is simple too restrictive to not affect legitimate players at the same time.

By the way, the problem is already kinda solve with the afk timer change, and that's a good thing. And it's a change where the impact on the legitimate players is minimal/inexistant, so overrall a way better solution.

Edited July 26 by Shuzuru.3651