Anet, this spear "mechanic" change ain't it

[Zekent.3652]

I saw good warriors testing it, seemed 🥴 as wep, even they said that.

I tested it, felt 🥴 as wep.

Some are saying that it was built to be good as berserker for PvP.

Others says that it was built to be good as spellbreaker for PvP.

I don't know who to believe.

ANet: "Spear was a strong option in pvp", yeah, it was so strong ANet, sure.

It's not as bad as someone is saying in this post, but it's also NOT that good as some hopium folks are saying, maybe because things seems good on tooltip, then u remember that it's GW2.

Edited August 7 by Zekent.3652

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Zekent.3652 said:

Some are saying that it was built to be good as berserker for PvP.

Others says that it was built to be good as spellbreaker for PvP.

I don't know who to believe.

It's both. 

Wild throw covers berserker's main problem, multiblocks and blinds.

Harrier's toss adds some sustain and point defense to spellbreaker, because it always activates Adrenal Health. 

Quote

It it's also NOT that good

This is correct. It's a hair clunky, it feels a lil weird, the skillshot is demanding.

It addresses specific problems warriors have though. Hopefully we don't get dogpiled for this one. @Shagie.7612's already upset about the damage coeff on Berserker's burst like it hasn't been comatose with lack of damage that sticks for years... 

Edited August 8 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Shagie.7612's already upset about the damage coeff on Berserker's burst like it hasn't been comatose with lack of damage that sticks for years... 

brother i was literally doing like 25k+ wild throws on heavy lol
spear 5 has an even higher coefficient than that, and now it tracks?

i crit a spear 4 for like 17k at one point, that's a one shot on half the cast

that's some insane numbers, no other glass cannon even comes close

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Ohh cool. Still garbage. Who would have thought. 

[Myror.7521]

@TexZero.7910 well its 100% not as good as staff buut thats good since staff is nearly too good in comb with warr so in the end i think the weapon is good how it is since it still did not felt too good or too Bad ^^

Edited August 8 by Myror.7521

[WingSwipe.3084]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910 well its 100% not as good as staff buut thats good since staff is nearly too good in comb with warr so in the end i think the weapon is good how it is since it still did not felt too good or too Bad ^^

Staff had to be excellent to cover up for warriors pitiful healing potential.

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, feeper.5287 said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Also saying that warrior players ridicule their own class more than other players who main other classes is not true at all xD you should talk to some ele mains. I don't see why it's suddenly whining to bring up how Anet has repeatedly not given warrior the same attention as other classes (with the exception of staff). If no other classes got a special gimmick/mechanic with their weapon this would be a different story but that isn't the world we live in. Every class got something except for warrior and the devs reasoning (which they have stated in interviews) is that warrior is the "simple" and "not complex" class. It frustrates warrior "mains" because it shows a disconnect between the devs and the players. 

Speaking as someone who plays all the professions...

...yeah, it's eles and wars, with good reason. The issues are different, and even the so-called "favoured child" professions do have their own issues, but ele and warrior do feel like they've been thrown scraps more than any other profession.

And one of the ironies is that for all they say warrior is a "simple" and "not complex" class, it's one of the harder professions to play well because in competitive it depends a lot on timing and/or positioning, while in PvE, it often ends up with rotations that are either high intensity or easily disrupted (or both).

[Jzaku.9765]

9 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Speaking as someone who plays all the professions...

...yeah, it's eles and wars, with good reason. The issues are different, and even the so-called "favoured child" professions do have their own issues, but ele and warrior do feel like they've been thrown scraps more than any other profession.

And one of the ironies is that for all they say warrior is a "simple" and "not complex" class, it's one of the harder professions to play well because in competitive it depends a lot on timing and/or positioning, while in PvE, it often ends up with rotations that are either high intensity or easily disrupted (or both).

I disagree (heavily) about Ele - in fact i think it's currently one of the top ranking classes in terms of dev priority, having had almost every single core weapon reworked in some way in the last year or so. It just so happens that the dev extremely passionate about ele is also extremely passionate about making it a complicated, skill intensive pvp machine which is not what most ele players want lmao. 

[Jzaku.9765]

Also, to be on-topic:

For PVE all I can read the new "mechanic" as is "completely randomly lose damage when an add walks in front of the boss". I believe Thief players have been complaining about this for several years regarding Deadeye Rifle.

Personally, I also wanted a mechanic that actually prompted me to play the game a different way (you know, like literally all the other Spears on all the other classes), not just another boring cleave related effect. 

Edited August 8 by Jzaku.9765

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I disagree (heavily) about Ele - in fact i think it's currently one of the top ranking classes in terms of dev priority, having had almost every single core weapon reworked in some way in the last year or so. It just so happens that the dev extremely passionate about ele is also extremely passionate about making it a complicated, skill intensive pvp machine which is not what most ele players want lmao.

So the devs like to give punishment and the community need to like having a hard time... I don't think it's a good way to please the majority.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

19 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

brother i was literally doing like 25k+ wild throws on heavy lol
spear 5 has an even higher coefficient than that, and now it tracks?

i crit a spear 4 for like 17k at one point, that's a one shot on half the cast

that's some insane numbers, no other glass cannon even comes close

If someone is gonna let you land all of wild throw and you're on a glass rifle build, so be it. I get hit for that if i eat a whole shatter mes burst/prestacked soulbeast opener.

If spear 4 crits for 17k on a full glass build, I will acknowledge that is a problem. It should hit harder than true shot because of how it needs to be manually aimed though, and that hits for 10 on glass builds. 

 

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If someone is gonna let you land all of wild throw and you're on a glass rifle build, so be it. I get hit for that if i eat a whole shatter mes burst/prestacked soulbeast opener.

If spear 4 crits for 17k on a full glass build, I will acknowledge that is a problem. It should hit harder than true shot because of how it needs to be manually aimed though, and that hits for 10 on glass builds. 

I think the issue arises from something taking like one or two ticks when they hit as hard as they do. I think I saved a couple screenshots of like, 8k crits? Even just landing one or two of those is very big value. For something that's a longer channel than a standard dodge, you can cast 2 of em, and now you have Spearmarshal's Support that also lasts longer than dodges?
Kinda questionable. Anything without a spammable evade or immediate teleport out of LoS gets crunched, because you have unblockable and resistance when you do so.

The spear 4 was on a... Reaper, I think? Light armor, probably wasn't wearing Rabid, but that's more damage than 7/9 classes have base HP.
It can also be thrown behind you, can daze, and immobilizes, so directly comparing it to True Shot which only does damage is hard.

[oscuro.9720]

I believe this may be in reference to the spear shards on the auto attack hitting harder than the primary spear target in the beta. Per my tests, the spear shards were routinely doing ~600-700 more damage than the damage to the initial target. 
 

assuming they made the max distance damage the standard damage at all distances, this is actually a welcome change and will increase the auto attack damage by a fair amount. It’s not really a “new” mechanic though. Just a better version of the same thing.

[Jzaku.9765]

6 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I believe this may be in reference to the spear shards on the auto attack hitting harder than the primary spear target in the beta. Per my tests, the spear shards were routinely doing ~600-700 more damage than the damage to the initial target. 
 

assuming they made the max distance damage the standard damage at all distances, this is actually a welcome change and will increase the auto attack damage by a fair amount. It’s not really a “new” mechanic though. Just a better version of the same thing.

Agree about calling it a "new" mechanic. It's like saying piercing attacks are a mechanic. Or AOEs are a mechanic. Except this is ostensibly worse considering it's effectively a PBAOE on hit that just does less damage when it splashes out when there are many PBAOEs in this game that don't randomly lose damage. 

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I disagree (heavily) about Ele - in fact i think it's currently one of the top ranking classes in terms of dev priority, having had almost every single core weapon reworked in some way in the last year or so. It just so happens that the dev extremely passionate about ele is also extremely passionate about making it a complicated, skill intensive pvp machine which is not what most ele players want lmao. 

Pretty much everything that's been done with elementalist in terms of new options since Weaver has shown signs of being essentially the bare minimum. Catalyst really feels like it's just been assembled from the cutting room floor after Weaver and Tempest, with most of the traits being essentially three different kinds of stacking buff. All three elite specialisations were designed for melee, with Weaver the only one which, in PvE, can be built so that it's not punished for not going into melee. Meanwhile, pistol's mechanics are even more of a PITA to use with weaver than with other elite specialisations, while with spear they've turned most of the dual skills into simple self-buffs which means that weaver traits that assume that dual skills will be attacks won't function. In short, the new weapons are flashy but don't actually fit in with existing elementalist mechanics very well, and part of that is pretty clearly coming from the overhead of how many skills they need to make when weaver dual skills are taken into account - spear shows clear signs of them wanting to minimise the weaver tax, without considering the effect that turning the dual skills into easy-to-make self-buffs has on weavers.

CMC might be updating the core weapons, but we've had updates to the core weapons on warrior as well, and whoever's in charge of new stuff for elementalist just hasn't been considering how well the new weapons work with what elementalist already has. Improvements to the old weapons are nice, but the pre-EoD stuff for elementalist, with a few exceptions like conjures, was already pretty solid from a design perspective and just needed to catch up to the powercreep a bit, while the post-PoF stuff has all felt lazy from a design perspective, even IF spear has impressive visuals.

Every other profession that isn't called Warrior feels more functional than elementalist. They might not have all received as much attention as elementalist, but they've generally been faring better as well. I have been side-eyeing revenant a bit, especially with the weapons they've been getting post-EoD, and I wish whoever's in charge of engineer wasn't so committed to ensuring the continued dominance of grenades, but they both still feel better off overall than warrior and elementalist.