Why isnt the balance split?

[Murdock.6547]

I dont want to come off as accusatory or whatever. I simply have an honest question.What benefits does gw2 have being unsplit in pvp, wvw, and pve?We are familiar with the drawbacks of unsplit. But are there more or worse drawbacks to a split approach?

[TexZero.7910]

@Murdock.6547 said:I dont want to come off as accusatory or whatever. I simply have an honest question.What benefits does gw2 have being unsplit in pvp, wvw, and pve?We are familiar with the drawbacks of unsplit. But are there more or worse drawbacks to a split approach?

It does split. It just doesnt make drastic mechanical changes between modes.

[Morwath.9817]

Ooo, Quaggan has an answer for you!

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:(...)2) If it was meant for competitive changes, why do PvE Daredevils have to take the blow, too?First off: As a rule we don't split skill and trait functionality changes ("functionality" being the keyword here). There are some things that we are okay with splitting such as >damage, condition duration/stacks, resource cost, etc. However we don't want to make skills which apply different buffs or have different cast times or number of hits >based on game mode. This rule is in place to preserve skill cohesion and prevent confusion when switching game modes. It's not a rule that we plan on changing.(....)

[Murdock.6547]

Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

[OriOri.8724]

@Murdock.6547 said:Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as shit, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.

[Exedore.6320]

@"OriOri.8724" said:I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as kitten, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.ANet doesn't want another Smiter's Boon.

[Genesis.5169]

PvE becomes less fun if its balanced along with pvp thats the simplest explanation i can give you. Which is why skill splits atleast tweaking numbers is beneficial

[Dawdler.8521]

@Genesis.5169 said:PvE becomes less fun if its balanced along with pvp thats the simplest explanation i can give you. Which is why skill splits atleast tweaking numbers is beneficial

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How does PvE become less fun? Even if you where to drop dps from 30K average down to 10K average in PvE, balancing it is dead simple - change the hp of mobs. Oh does a mob do too much damage on that one attacks vs people with 1000 stat points less? Well nerf that attack then. Is 5 mobs too many? Make it 4 mobs.

PvP/WvW is where the actual balancing should occur, because that intricate relationship of class skills is far, far more complicated.

PvE is pretty irrelevant.

[Murdock.6547]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as kitten, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.

oh no, I disagree too. But I simply wanted an answer and I got one.

[apharma.3741]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as kitten, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.

Not really, I would rather a skill be balanced in 2 game modes and underwhelming/niche in another one. I mean we are already at that point and it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is when skills are underwhelming in all game modes (signet of water) or where mechanics are poor in all game modes or very niche (phantasms mechanics) which causes glaring balance issues all over.

@OP there has been a bigger trend recently where problem skills and traits are getting redesigned entirely where they may have been a balance concern which can circumvent the issues if done well.

[Devilman.1532]

@Morwath.9817 said:Ooo, Quaggan has an answer for you!

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:(...)2) If it was meant for competitive changes, why do PvE Daredevils have to take the blow, too?First off: As a rule we don't split skill and trait functionality changes ("functionality" being the keyword here). There are some things that we are okay with splitting such as >damage, condition duration/stacks, resource cost, etc. However we don't want to make skills which apply different buffs or have different cast times or number of hits >based on game mode. This rule is in place to preserve skill cohesion and prevent confusion when switching game modes. It's not a rule that we plan on changing.(....)

Maybe its just me but talking in the third person pretending to be some kind of "cute" character is kinda tired, annoying and makes you sound like an 8 year old. Hard to take you seriously when you talk this way. I'm not trying to be mean but it adds nothing to the forums and neither does copy/pasting Anet's responses.

[Morwath.9817]

@Devilman.1532 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:Ooo, Quaggan has an answer for you!

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:(...)2) If it was meant for competitive changes, why do PvE Daredevils have to take the blow, too?First off: As a rule we don't split skill and trait functionality changes ("functionality" being the keyword here). There are some things that we are okay with splitting such as >damage, condition duration/stacks, resource cost, etc. However we don't want to make skills which apply different buffs or have different cast times or number of hits >based on game mode. This rule is in place to preserve skill cohesion and prevent confusion when switching game modes. It's not a rule that we plan on changing.(....)

Maybe its just me but talking in the third person pretending to be some kind of "cute" character is kinda tired, annoying and makes you sound like an 8 year old. Hard to take you seriously when you talk this way. I'm not trying to be mean but it adds nothing to the forums and neither does copy/pasting Anet's responses.

Ooo, looks like PvP community disagrees with you, as they gave more "thumbs up" for Quaggan than he is posting, as they also find posts like the one youre reffering to as helpful. Quaggan will try to be as helpful as possible for his fishy friends in PvP forums regardless of negativity he has to face sometimes.

[Genesis.5169]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:PvE becomes less fun if its balanced along with pvp thats the simplest explanation i can give you. Which is why skill splits atleast tweaking numbers is beneficial

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How does PvE become less fun? Even if you where to drop dps from 30K average down to 10K average in PvE, balancing it is dead simple - change the hp of mobs. Oh does a mob do too much damage on that one attacks vs people with 1000 stat points less? Well nerf that attack then. Is 5 mobs too many? Make it 4 mobs.

PvP/WvW is where the actual balancing should occur, because that intricate relationship of class skills is far, far more complicated.

PvE is pretty irrelevant.

I can assure you if that were the case and people didn't care people would be okay doing less damage and just doing the content. You can scream and yell all you want but ask yourself this do you want your 100b to 20k damage or 2k damage take that with no context just the question and you will see where i come from.

I undestand that your salty i pvp/wvw/pve but your just being an ass atm.

[apharma.3741]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:PvE becomes less fun if its balanced along with pvp thats the simplest explanation i can give you. Which is why skill splits atleast tweaking numbers is beneficial

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How does PvE become less fun? Even if you where to drop dps from 30K average down to 10K average in PvE, balancing it is dead simple - change the hp of mobs. Oh does a mob do too much damage on that one attacks vs people with 1000 stat points less? Well nerf that attack then. Is 5 mobs too many? Make it 4 mobs.

PvP/WvW is where the actual balancing should occur, because that intricate relationship of class skills is far, far more complicated.

PvE is pretty irrelevant.

I can assure you if that were the case and people didn't care people would be okay doing less damage and just doing the content. You can scream and yell all you want but ask yourself this do you want your 100b to 20k damage or 2k damage take that with no context just the question and you will see where i come from.

I undestand that your salty i pvp/wvw/pve but your just being an kitten atm.

Well I mean if we are deciding everything without context would you rather have 10 boxes of chocolates or 1000 boxes of chocolates?

Now what if I said it was the number of boxes to give away to people in your life who you think deserve a little thank you at Christmas? What if it was your workload of boxes to prepare at 5:30pm with only half an hour before going home? What if we said as your only defence against a tiger?

Context matters.

If your 20k hundred blades took a mobs health to 50% then they nerfed your damage to 2k with Hb and likewise nerfed mob health so it still took a mob to 50% then nothing has realistically changed for you.

@Devilman.1532 Quaggan roleplay aside, copying and pasting the official ANet response and position on the question being asked is probably the most helpful anyone could have been. The OP asked for information which was supplied from an official source leaving no room for doubt and full clarity on the meaning.

[Devilman.1532]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:Ooo, Quaggan has an answer for you!

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:(...)2) If it was meant for competitive changes, why do PvE Daredevils have to take the blow, too?First off: As a rule we don't split skill and trait functionality changes ("functionality" being the keyword here). There are some things that we are okay with splitting such as >damage, condition duration/stacks, resource cost, etc. However we don't want to make skills which apply different buffs or have different cast times or number of hits >based on game mode. This rule is in place to preserve skill cohesion and prevent confusion when switching game modes. It's not a rule that we plan on changing.(....)

Maybe its just me but talking in the third person pretending to be some kind of "cute" character is kinda tired, annoying and makes you sound like an 8 year old. Hard to take you seriously when you talk this way. I'm not trying to be mean but it adds nothing to the forums and neither does copy/pasting Anet's responses.

Ooo, looks like PvP community disagrees with you, as they gave more "thumbs up" for Quaggan than he is posting, as they also find posts like the one youre reffering to as helpful. Quaggan will try to be as helpful as possible for his fishy friends in PvP forums regardless of negativity he has to face sometimes.

That means less than nothing. A few people giving it a "thumbs up" does not mean anything in comparison to the size of the community as a whole.

[Genesis.5169]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:PvE becomes less fun if its balanced along with pvp thats the simplest explanation i can give you. Which is why skill splits atleast tweaking numbers is beneficial

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How does PvE become less fun? Even if you where to drop dps from 30K average down to 10K average in PvE, balancing it is dead simple - change the hp of mobs. Oh does a mob do too much damage on that one attacks vs people with 1000 stat points less? Well nerf that attack then. Is 5 mobs too many? Make it 4 mobs.

PvP/WvW is where the actual balancing should occur, because that intricate relationship of class skills is far, far more complicated.

PvE is pretty irrelevant.

I can assure you if that were the case and people didn't care people would be okay doing less damage and just doing the content. You can scream and yell all you want but ask yourself this do you want your 100b to 20k damage or 2k damage take that with no context just the question and you will see where i come from.

I undestand that your salty i pvp/wvw/pve but your just being an kitten atm.

Well I mean if we are deciding everything without context would you rather have 10 boxes of chocolates or 1000 boxes of chocolates?

Now what if I said it was the number of boxes to give away to people in your life who you think deserve a little thank you at Christmas? What if it was your workload of boxes to prepare at 5:30pm with only half an hour before going home? What if we said as your only defence against a tiger?

Context matters.

If your 20k hundred blades took a mobs health to 50% then they nerfed your damage to 2k with Hb and likewise nerfed mob health so it still took a mob to 50% then nothing has realistically changed for you.

@Devilman.1532 Quaggan roleplay aside, copying and pasting the official ANet response and position on the question being asked is probably the most helpful anyone could have been. The OP asked for information which was supplied from an official source leaving no room for doubt and full clarity on the meaning.

You need to look at the philosophy instead of the numbers. Like the idea that everyone is a rational actor in what they do. Its not a fact please stop stating things as those all of these opinions aren't subjective even within context.

The way how you think is not as of a creator but as a player you need to understand you bias before you talk.

[OriOri.8724]

@apharma.3741 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as kitten, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.

Not really, I would rather a skill be balanced in 2 game modes and underwhelming/niche in another one. I mean we are already at that point and it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is when skills are underwhelming in all game modes (signet of water) or where mechanics are poor in all game modes or very niche (phantasms mechanics) which causes glaring balance issues all over.

@OP there has been a bigger trend recently where problem skills and traits are getting redesigned entirely where they may have been a balance concern which can circumvent the issues if done well.

But this is the problem. With their desire to not have skills be unbalanced in a game mode, some skills are left shitty in all game modes because they cant be balanced in one without being too good in another. Some skills need true splits.

[apharma.3741]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Hm. Welp, that was answered a lot quicker than I thought itd be. Thanks lol.

I have to disagree with their views on skill splits. Sometimes a skill has to function differently in different game modes or it will always be unbalanced in at least 1 of them due to its nature. It might be underpowered as kitten, or overpowered, but some skills just need to function differently in different game modes.

Not really, I would rather a skill be balanced in 2 game modes and underwhelming/niche in another one. I mean we are already at that point and it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is when skills are underwhelming in all game modes (signet of water) or where mechanics are poor in all game modes or very niche (phantasms mechanics) which causes glaring balance issues all over.

@OP there has been a bigger trend recently where problem skills and traits are getting redesigned entirely where they may have been a balance concern which can circumvent the issues if done well.

But this is the problem. With their desire to not have skills be unbalanced in a game mode, some skills are left kitten in all game modes because they cant be balanced in one without being too good in another. Some skills need true splits.

I would argue they don’t need to be split but instead need to be redesigned if that is the case.