Stop Treating WvW like a GvG environment

[Mabi black.1824]

45 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

Why are you taking two sentences out of context and answering a question I never asked?

There is nothing 'out of context' of your words that I quoted. Legitimate, by the way. As you can see so many different things inside WVW. But, all of them are still doing what the game design predicts. You can have the illusion that you don't do this, but inevitably whatever you do is a contribution to your team/server. too bad I made the concept of team/server useless in the meantime. The people who designed this game mode would have so many kittens to write here if you ask them, in reference to what I'm writing to you. 

How can a team/server game work well, if we deprive it of the same concept of teams/servers?

Edited September 3 by Mabi black.1824

[One more for the road.8950]

15 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

There is nothing 'out of context' of your words that I quoted. Legitimate, by the way. As you can see so many different things inside WVW. But, all of them are still doing what the game design predicts. You can have the illusion that you don't do this, but inevitably whatever you do is a contribution to your team/server. too bad I made the concept of team/server useless in the meantime. The people who designed this game mode would have so many kittens to write here if you ask them, in reference to what I'm writing to you. 

How can a team/server game work well, if we deprive it of the same concept of teams/servers?

Of course it's out of context.

I stated WvW are a lot of things. In an answer to someone that contained a lot more than that statement. I asked what the game mode was if killing people is not a part of it.

You are for some reason trying to explain what WvW is to me. Why? I never asked.

You are free to write what you want about WvW or WR in this thread or any other thread, you don't actually need to quote anyone. Especially out of context to answer a false set up. 

 

Is it Projecting Day today and nobody told me, or what is going on in this thread?

Edited September 3 by One more for the road.8950

[Tula.6021]

WvW has become such a soulless and nameless mode, I've been so depressed about it since Sunday, except for daily I can't manage to stay there any longer.
Sunday I went to wvw with one of my commanders and he gave up the defense of the t3 home keep after 1 attempt to travel back to the map where there was a zerg who wanted to fight.
Just mindless zerg fights with no greater purpose.
That's not wvw. This deeply contemptuous wvw behavior was so prominently displayed in front of my eyes that it depressed me. I no longer have a home to catch me, because Anet has removed names and souls. So I sink into this depression.

- a wounded soul in the darkness

Edited September 3 by Tula.6021

[Mabi black.1824]

19 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Small reality check for some people here:

Unlike the common theme which some forum regulars who are unhappy like to believe: numbers in WvW are not down. Activity is about where it was before WR was added (this week up because of the anniversary event).

Since you're writing it, I'll copy and paste the data I reported in January of this year in my post made specifically to measure the ''temperature'' of all the betas we've had:

Posted January 19 (edited)

Friday, January 19, 2024. beta 8 - First week ( so you can also see which beta we have reached )

the most extreme numbers that we can read in Europe are: T3 red 115,000k+d and T5 red 79,000k+d

I created this post on purpose to keep historical track of the numbers and the balance that this new mechanic is bringing. And again if you go to the opening page of this topic you can see how broken our current system is, and how much WR is actually improving it in terms of ''balance''.

Have fun everyone, and see you in the mists as usual.

Now the most extreme numbers I read on the Mist right now are: EU T3 55,000 K+D and EU T5 31,000 K+D Now it is true that it is only Tuesday and we still have 3 days of play to consider, and I assure you that it will be my care to show up here on Friday evening to bring you the precise numbers. But are you sure that the activity of WWW after WR is the same as before? Safe, safe? My estimate is that it is down by at least 30%. I accept bets.😉

Edited September 3 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

44 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Since you're writing it, I'll copy and paste the data I reported in January of this year in my post made specifically to measure the ''temperature'' of all the betas we've had:

Posted January 19 (edited)

Friday, January 19, 2024. beta 8 - First week ( so you can also see which beta we have reached )

the most extreme numbers that we can read in Europe are: T3 red 115,000k+d and T5 red 79,000k+d

I created this post on purpose to keep historical track of the numbers and the balance that this new mechanic is bringing. And again if you go to the opening page of this topic you can see how broken our current system is, and how much WR is actually improving it in terms of ''balance''.

Have fun everyone, and see you in the mists as usual.

Now the most extreme numbers I read on the Mist right now are: EU T3 55,000 K+D and EU T5 31,000 K+D Now it is true that it is only Tuesday and we still have 3 days of play to consider, and I assure you that it will be my care to show up here on Friday evening to bring you the precise numbers. But are you sure that the activity of WWW after WR is the same as before? Safe, safe? My estimate is that it is down by at least 30%. I accept bets.😉

The January beta was extreme even compared to the earlier betas but it dropped sharply to “normal” activity the weeks after when matchups resumed (even the second beta week wasn’t close).

[Cyninja.2954]

49 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Since you're writing it, I'll copy and paste the data I reported in January of this year in my post made specifically to measure the ''temperature'' of all the betas we've had:

Posted January 19 (edited)

Friday, January 19, 2024. beta 8 - First week ( so you can also see which beta we have reached )

the most extreme numbers that we can read in Europe are: T3 red 115,000k+d and T5 red 79,000k+d

I created this post on purpose to keep historical track of the numbers and the balance that this new mechanic is bringing. And again if you go to the opening page of this topic you can see how broken our current system is, and how much WR is actually improving it in terms of ''balance''.

Have fun everyone, and see you in the mists as usual.

Now the most extreme numbers I read on the Mist right now are: EU T3 55,000 K+D and EU T5 31,000 K+D Now it is true that it is only Tuesday and we still have 3 days of play to consider, and I assure you that it will be my care to show up here on Friday evening to bring you the precise numbers. But are you sure that the activity of WWW after WR is the same as before? Safe, safe? My estimate is that it is down by at least 30%. I accept bets.😉

Why are you comparing a very high activity beta of THIS system with regular pre WR WvW versus the continous WR beta?

The average K+D pre WR was no where near that first beta.

I was comparing regular server WvW with post WR shards WvW. 

If your argument is:"the first beta showed far better how this system can succeed" then I'd agree. The developers should check what caused this significant spike in activity and try to replicate it. That still has nothing to do with moving back to a server system tough.

I am completely confused as to what you are trying to point to given you are sabotaging your own position here.

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Since you're writing it, I'll copy and paste the data I reported in January of this year in my post made specifically to measure the ''temperature'' of all the betas we've had:

Posted January 19 (edited)

Friday, January 19, 2024. beta 8 - First week ( so you can also see which beta we have reached )

the most extreme numbers that we can read in Europe are: T3 red 115,000k+d and T5 red 79,000k+d

I created this post on purpose to keep historical track of the numbers and the balance that this new mechanic is bringing. And again if you go to the opening page of this topic you can see how broken our current system is, and how much WR is actually improving it in terms of ''balance''.

Have fun everyone, and see you in the mists as usual.

Now the most extreme numbers I read on the Mist right now are: EU T3 55,000 K+D and EU T5 31,000 K+D Now it is true that it is only Tuesday and we still have 3 days of play to consider, and I assure you that it will be my care to show up here on Friday evening to bring you the precise numbers. But are you sure that the activity of WWW after WR is the same as before? Safe, safe? My estimate is that it is down by at least 30%. I accept bets.😉

So you are comparing WR beta system to WR beta system to prove WR beta numbers are down compared to server system.

🤔

[Mabi black.1824]

13 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So you are comparing WR beta system to WR beta system to prove WR beta numbers are down compared to server system.

🤔

I am reporting the numbers that in January provided by the players who floated inside WVW (beta version 😎 ) compared to the numbers that the players of this last week are manifesting. I used these because I wrote them in January of this year, they are an indelible trace in black and white. If you have other numbers available, feel free to report them here. they will only be useful for a comparison as transparent as possible.

Edited September 3 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

45 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Why are you comparing a very high activity beta of THIS system with regular pre WR WvW versus the continous WR beta?

The average K+D pre WR was no where near that first beta.

I was comparing regular server WvW with post WR shards WvW. 

If your argument is:"the first beta showed far better how this system can succeed" then I'd agree. The developers should check what caused this significant spike in activity and try to replicate it. That still has nothing to do with moving back to a server system tough.

I am completely confused as to what you are trying to point to given you are sabotaging your own position here.

You can rest assured with me, I'm not sabotaging anything about Wvw (the development of Anet is already taking care of that) I'm comparing myself transparently with you and on what you wrote, below are the numbers I reported in october 2022 in reference to beta 5:

 

  On 10/21/2022 at 2:24 PM, Mabi black.1824 said:

We are back on the weekend, Friday, the most extreme numbers we can read in this beta week are: T2 Green 95K T2 Red 69K.

A small step towards balance and a big step for the WW gaming community.

definitely better.

 

Edited September 3 by Mabi black.1824

[Arete.7019]

25 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I am reporting the numbers that in January provided by the players who floated inside WVW (beta version 😎 ) compared to the numbers that the players of this last week are manifesting. I used these because I wrote them in January of this year, they are an indelible trace in black and white. If you have other numbers available, feel free to report them here. they will only be useful for a comparison as transparent as possible.

Sure, here's some numbers:
24-6-7 -> 24-6-14 matchup (Final matchup pre WR)
Total K+D EU (all tiers) - 807801
Total K+D NA (all tiers) - 738752

24-8-2 -> 24-8-9 (Final matchup pre Janthir Wilds API shutdown)
Total K+D EU (all tiers) - 803780 (-0.5%)
Total K+D NA (all tiers) - 770414 (+4.2%)

If you still want to bet that numbers are down 30% I'm willing to take that bet, let me know 🙂

Edited September 3 by Arete.7019

[Cyninja.2954]

9 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

You can rest assured with me, I'm not sabotaging anything about Wvw (the development of Anet is already taking care of that) I'm comparing myself transparently with you and on what you wrote, below are the numbers I reported in october 2022 in reference to beta 5:

 

  On 10/21/2022 at 2:24 PM, Mabi black.1824 said:

We are back on the weekend, Friday, the most extreme numbers we can read in this beta week are: T2 Green 95K T2 Red 69K.

A small step towards balance and a big step for the WW gaming community.

definitely better.

 

You are comparing numbers within the same system. So if your goal is to state: "hey world restructuring has seen higher numbers in limited time situations." Then I fully agree.

What you are not in any way disputing is what I said: the numbers between the server system and the WR system did NOT take a dive.

In fact the numbers under the WR system are stable if not even growing.

What you provided is useless in the context of comparing server versus WR system. Ergo my confusion why you brought up those numbers since they in no way support a server system.

[Mabi black.1824]

8 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

they in no way support a server system.

I'm not supporting the server system. I'm doing a comparison of the players floating in WVW months and years ago compared to this week. The beta weeks were spotty. And I assume that people who played WVW in that beta or non-beta period just played it. moreover, they are the only numbers I have available, I read them and reported them at the precise moment I wrote them. I have no other.

[Mabi black.1824]

13 minutes ago, Arete.7019 said:

Sure, here's some numbers:
24-6-7 -> 24-6-14 matchup (Final matchup pre WR)
Total K+D EU (all tiers) - 807801
Total K+D NA (all tiers) - 738752

24-8-2 -> 24-8-9 (Final matchup pre Janthir Wilds)
Total K+D EU (all tiers) - 803780 (-0.5%)
Total K+D NA (all tiers) - 770414 (+4.2%)

If you still want to bet that numbers are down 30% I'm willing to take that bet, let me know 🙂

Perfect, where are these numbers available? What is the source?

[Arete.7019]

12 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Perfect, where are these numbers available? What is the source?

I recorded them from the API on those weeks

[Mabi black.1824]

1 minute ago, Arete.7019 said:

I recorded them from the API on those weeks

It's as if you were speaking to me in Arabic . Can you just tell me where I go to see them to check them?

[Reztek.7805]

21 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Small reality check for some people here:

Unlike the common theme which some forum regulars who are unhappy like to believe: numbers in WvW are not down. Activity is about where it was before WR was added (this week up because of the anniversary event).

If you expect for the developers to do a 180 here, they will certainly not do that based around WR having "failed'. The limited numbers we can see just do not paint that bleak a picture. In fact I am pretty sure that overall teams are far better balanced now compared to before. The outliers are smaller.

The best thing you will or might see is further improvements to the system, ideally some which mitigate some of the "new" issues.

So where does that leave you? You can keep complaining, give constructive suggestions, adapt, or leave. I'd say the chances of WvW going BACK to a server system are very slim to none at the moment.

Ouch, too bad there are stats available: https://kills.werdes.net/#/matches/archive/

So it's probably time for a "real" reality check here:

Unlike the common theme which some forum regulars who are happy like to believe: holiday months have the highest activity. Last year august had 25% more activity than june (last week august vs 1st/2nd week june. and SOTO released around the same time as Janthir ;)). So even IF numbers in WvW were the same as before the WR in June, that would be bad. But luckily they are lower, just 5% though. 😉

Developers ofc won't do a 180 here, but obviously nothing has improved since WR.

Edited September 3 by Reztek.7805

[igmolicious.5986]

56 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I am reporting the numbers that in January provided by the players who floated inside WVW (beta version 😎 ) compared to the numbers that the players of this last week are manifesting. I used these because I wrote them in January of this year, they are an indelible trace in black and white. If you have other numbers available, feel free to report them here. they will only be useful for a comparison as transparent as possible.

One very obvious reason why a WR beta prior to current continuous WR beta might have better numbers is that before this continuous beta, all previous beta cycles gave significant boosts to wxp and reward track progress in addtion to war machine weapon skin chest. I suspect we'll have a similar boost with the current anniversary bonus.

[Arete.7019]

6 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

It's as if you were speaking to me in Arabic . Can you just tell me where I go to see them to check them?

Sure, idk why it needs more than the "I wrote it down" that your numbers had but:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10ZUqXnC8iYgDgfFnm0Wr2_FSkeHHxQgWw9sEiO_JCvI/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OAW9gUpdOGgSvvplBbqMkoYyCgSf30Fn1r-7ht1ikk0/edit?usp=sharing
 

[Dawdler.8521]

13 minutes ago, igmolicious.5986 said:

One very obvious reason why a WR beta prior to current continuous WR beta might have better numbers is that before this continuous beta, all previous beta cycles gave significant boosts to wxp and reward track progress in addtion to war machine weapon skin chest. I suspect we'll have a similar boost with the current anniversary bonus.

It dropped in numbers a lot while still having boosts, that is just a minor part (guesstimate like +20% more due to boosts, first week of January was more like +100% higher activity). It was simply a new beta that drew people. 

Edited September 3 by Dawdler.8521

[Cuks.8241]

18 minutes ago, Reztek.7805 said:

Ouch, too bad there are stats available: https://kills.werdes.net/#/matches/archive/

So it's probably time for a "real" reality check here:

Unlike the common theme which some forum regulars who are happy like to believe: holiday months have the highest activity. Last year august had 25% more activity than june (last week august vs 2nd week june. and SOTO released around the same time as Janthir ;)). So even IF numbers in WvW were the same as before the WR in June, that would be bad. But luckily they are lower, just 5% though. 😉

Developers ofc won't do a 180 here, but obviously nothing has improved since WR.

Can someone parse the numbers from this site and add them to see a cumulative trend (or is there a better site)? Manually this would just be too painful to add up and I don't care that much to do it.

[igmolicious.5986]

9 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It dropped in numbers a lot while still having boosts, that is just a minor part (guesstimate like +20% more due to boosts, first week of January was more like +100% higher activity). It was simply a new beta that drew people. 

Well I mean, at least last week, we were still directly after an xpac release, which definitely hit wvw population -- and isnt the wvw beta boost a full 100% instead of 30% from anniversary boost?

Edited September 3 by igmolicious.5986

[Dawdler.8521]

1 minute ago, igmolicious.5986 said:

Well I mean, at least last week, we were still directly after an xpac release, which definitely hit wvw population.

last weekend was noticably more activity since the rest of the summer though, which is a surprise. I expected PvE to hit much harder instead. Then again no more summer too, where WvW has been declared dead every year for mysterious unknown reasons no one could ever have predicted since 2012.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

I would guess the K+D numbers are up this week for one simple reason, the new spear meta is creating more dead people more faster.

[Dawdler.8521]

Just now, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

I would guess the K+D numbers are up this week for one simple reason, the new spear meta is creating more dead people more faster.

They seem kind of kitten for WvW though.

[devastoscz.9851]

12 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I believe this guy doesn't know what forums are for. If the tables were turned and boon strips did their job the boon ballers would be all up in these forums complaining about dying to even pugs cause hugging each other would suddenly be bad.

Don't worry we already know anet only listens to the discord echo chamber, you guys think they're doing a bang up job changing wvw to your way of play, and no one should be complaining! Yes everyone, you must now adapt and convert yourselves into boon ball zerglings, this is the way. WvW is now about GvGing and deathmatch, adapt and get use to it or leave!

Don't come here to complain, the forums are only for posting cupcake recipes. 🧁

No seriously, stop complaining and just leave if you don't like what's happening! 🍿

Sure they would, and I would also classify them as disgruntled and malcontent, and if they all stood around in an... oval tug... they would be equally ignored and picked apart by people who can see a bigger picture and can have somewhat of an eloquent discussion other than just complaining.

 

12 hours ago, candytripn.7253 said:

Do you mean, got their group into the same discord and said "stack on tag"?

For one, yes. At least they go through the effort of doing that, unlike the dead pugs around them that complain they "can't beat the zerg" on their own.