Wintersday Balance Update: Feedback Thread

[Refia Montes.3205]

Overall I'm happy with the patch. Adjustments were made when they were needed, most PvE specs in line with each other, condis are a bit less bursty.

But that's not to say that you didn't miss anything, Scourge is still bottom in PvE while being frustrating to play against in PvP, PvP Mirage condi being annoying to deal with, Staff Weaver being marginally stronger compared to other classes in dps in PvE.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:But that's not to say that you didn't miss anything, Scourge is still bottom in PvE

Uh, that's not true. They're in quite a good spot in PvE.

while being frustrating to play against in PvP, PvP Mirage condi being annoying to deal with

Yup, they dropped the ball on these two.

Staff Weaver being marginally stronger compared to other classes in dps in PvE.

To be fair, elementalist has always been marginally stronger than other classes in PvE DPS, especially against large hitbox enemies. Purely selfish DPS specs (like holo) should naturally be doing quite a bit of damage, yet they are only marginally better than other builds.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Scourge is still bottom in PvE while being frustrating to play against in PvP

It can be frustrating but they can still be beaten 1 Vs 1. I beat them more than i lose to them and im full Melee only (Sword/Dagger Weaver) of course that requires lots of condition removal and know when and how to use it as well as knowing when to push them and when to move back a little bit

@Refia Montes.3205 said:PvP Mirage condi being annoying to deal with

No. Just no. Scourge is ANNOYING to deal with, Mesmer, Chrono and Mirage and full on tedious. Cant be countered. Cant be locked down. Apart from one apparent Spell breaker build, i would love to know what builds and classes can be VIABLE against them. Because even with all my condition removal. Its nowhere near enough to counter their Burst application AND their constant application. On top of their stealth, target drops, heavy use of CC they are by FAR the most broken Condi build in the game. I'd even put on the levels on Trapper Condi Thief. Your ONLY option shouldnt be run...

[Vagrant.7206]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:PvP Mirage condi being annoying to deal with

No. Just no. Scourge is ANNOYING to deal with, Mesmer, Chrono and Mirage and full on tedious. Cant be countered. Cant be locked down. Apart from one apparent Spell breaker build, i would love to know what builds and classes can be VIABLE against them. Because even with all my condition removal. Its nowhere near enough to counter their Burst application AND their constant application. On top of their stealth, target drops, heavy use of CC they are by FAR the most broken Condi build in the game. I'd even put on the levels on Trapper Condi Thief. Your ONLY option shouldnt be run...

Holo with stealth can lock down a mirage pretty handily. The AoE power damage is quite potent at ruining their illusions/clones and locking them down.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Vagrant.7206 said:Holo with stealth can lock down a mirage pretty handily. The AoE power damage is quite potent at ruining their illusions/clones and locking them down.

But, at the same time. They arent exactly good at condi removal either, with their own stealth, blocks, invuls, mobility and such if its to reasonably equal skilled players. Who is more likely to win? I'd still be leaning towards Condi Mesmer

[Cynz.9437]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:PvP Mirage condi being annoying to deal with

No. Just no. Scourge is ANNOYING to deal with, Mesmer, Chrono and Mirage and full on tedious. Cant be countered. Cant be locked down. Apart from one apparent Spell breaker build, i would love to know what builds and classes can be VIABLE against them. Because even with all my condition removal. Its nowhere near enough to counter their Burst application AND their constant application. On top of their stealth, target drops, heavy use of CC they are by FAR the most broken Condi build in the game. I'd even put on the levels on Trapper Condi Thief. Your ONLY option shouldnt be run...

Holo with stealth can lock down a mirage pretty handily. The AoE power damage is quite potent at ruining their illusions/clones and locking them down.

You are not going to beat mirage that knows how to press his buttons, not matter what class you play unless you are also mirage.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Cynz.9437 said:You are not going to beat mirage that knows how to press his buttons, not matter what class you play unless you are also mirage.

Pretty much this. You might beat them if they are AFK but if they know how to press buttons, that alone will give them the win 99% of the fights they will others, the other 1% are those that ran away. There might be like a 0.01% of people that beat them but that would be more likely due to them getting jumped by several people. Mesmer, Chrono and Mirage are by FAR the strongest, most broken Condi spec in the game.

[Cynz.9437]

Honestly, what "smart person" thought this was balanced? Please, Anet tell me which part of THIS is balanced? Do you truly think patch addressed ANYTHING AT ALL? PvP/wvw in drowning is condis/AoEs.Please admit it, you just made game P2Win so we can quit this game in peace.https://imgur.com/a/XOUou

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Cynz.9437" said:Honestly, what "smart person" thought this was balanced? Please, Anet tell me which part of THIS is balanced? Do you truly think patch addressed ANYTHING AT ALL? PvP/wvw in drowning is condis/AoEs.Please admit it, you just made game P2Win so we can quit this game in peace.https://imgur.com/a/XOUou

I wouldn't say Pay 2 Win, so much as forced bad balance to promote skilless gameplay. Their are base game specs that are still VERY strong, the problem is they are mostly just Condi specs or your typical horrendous balance Warrior spec with full zerk gear but having more defense, regen and passiveness of bunker builds. Too keep the bad players in the game. The game is "balanced" around the worst players in the game which is a TERRIBLE way to balance the game.

[Ghos.1326]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

Yeah. No. Warriors dont need to be even more broken thanks. So you have a build that can FINALLY counter you and now suddenly condition builds need to be nerfed and Warrior needs to be buffed.

I said it for a LONG time on here and in the game, the ONLY time when Condition builds would see a nerf - When Warriors are no longer immune to all condition builds in the game. Guess what changed recently happened? Now suddenly, Warriors have to work to counter conditions. I mean you still have more up time on Resistance as well as good condition removal to be able to fight them, apparently spellbreaker completely counters Condi Mesmer as well....

1) No Resistance and Stability should NOT be immune to corrupts2) So on top of your pasisve healing and your healing traits you want MORE healing!?3) I agree that Torment and Confusion needs to be changed4) Other than removing it from Scepter auto attack, Corruption is fine.5) Yeah. No. You can already go full zerk gear and still have 3k+ Armour and 20k health. You dont need more power.

OMG I LOVE YOU FOR THIS! Thank you. All valid points here. I have nothing to say except I agree fully and completely. Warrior does not need to be broken again. I don't find it fair at all, nor do I find it fair now that unless you jump a warrior, are another warrior, or can evade all their high damages while applying your own burst damages, you can't kill a warrior in a fight. They have a lot of passive healing, they being a heavy profession boosting their defenses 300 points higher than medium armor, and have a lot of passive defenses that make them durable as heck. Basically, the guy that Armageddon is quoting wants a warrior combined with a guardian. But that wouldn't be fair. While I think warrior should be able to survive well in a duel, I don't think they need to be unbeatable in a duel, all the time. That should come down to the opponents skill level and build.Like I said in other posts, any bruiser style build shouldn't be able to do high damage and have high defenses to not only obliterate but also be unkillable. Any build that focuses in on 2 specific functions should be able to do them ONLY decently, or do one thing great, and the other decently, if not slightly below decently.For example: I make a build that I want to focus in on doing damage but being able to survive. The damaging aspects should either be great or decent, and the durability should be decent/slightly below decent (if the damaging aspect is at a great level in regards to the slightly below decent) or great (if the damaging aspect is decent/slightly below decent in regards to this).

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Ghos.1326 said:OMG I LOVE YOU FOR THIS! Thank you. All valid points here. I have nothing to say except I agree fully and completely. Warrior does not need to be broken again. I don't find it fair at all, nor do I find it fair now that unless you jump a warrior, are another warrior, or can evade all their high damages while applying your own burst damages, you can't kill a warrior in a fight. They have a lot of passive healing, they being a heavy profession boosting their defenses 300 points higher than medium armor, and have a lot of passive defenses that make them durable as heck. Basically, the guy that Armageddon is quoting wants a warrior combined with a guardian. But that wouldn't be fair. While I think warrior should be able to survive well in a duel, I don't think they need to be unbeatable in a duel, all the time. That should come down to the opponents skill level and build.Like I said in other posts, any bruiser style build shouldn't be able to do high damage and have high defenses to not only obliterate but also be unkillable. Any build that focuses in on 2 specific functions should be able to do them ONLY decently, or do one thing great, and the other decently, if not slightly below decently.For example: I make a build that I want to focus in on doing damage but being able to survive. The damaging aspects should either be great or decent, and the durability should be decent/slightly below decent (if the damaging aspect is at a great level in regards to the slightly below decent) or great (if the damaging aspect is decent/slightly below decent in regards to this).

Yep. It seems like Anet forgot the whole Damage Vs sustain when it come to Warrior. me (Ele) if i want burst damage i have to sacrifice pretty much all my defense. What exactly does Warrior give up? Nothing. Top Tier health and armor. The best passive and active defense along with equip and forget passive healing, on top of other healing abilities. Passive proc defenses. Insanely good active defenses that pretty much can be easily cycled through making one pretty much immune to any and all damage. Insane mobility, CC options. Hell, what other class can run through a whole zerg and survive with barely taking any damage because of all the blocks, immunities and defenses?

Simply put, it was a DREADFUL decision to give them top tier health and armor and then give them traits and abilities that make them near unkillable. What other class could run FULL zerk gear and still have 20k health and 3k armor? This is just poor balance. When they have like 0.000001seconds of time when they can be attacked in a fight, it says something. Those that say Warrior need a buff, they are either SO dreadful they wouldnt be able to do well with any class if they aren't good at warrior or they feel like they need to be able to kill any class. Any spec. Without taking any damage at all and doing it ll with their eyes closed bashing their face on the keyboard.

Yep. That is the problem. Warrior does everything too well. Damage, Sustain, Mobility, defense, CC. Everything. I can't think of another class that can do everything as well as a Warrior can.

[Ghos.1326]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:OMG I LOVE YOU FOR THIS! Thank you. All valid points here. I have nothing to say except I agree fully and completely. Warrior does not need to be broken again. I don't find it fair at all, nor do I find it fair now that unless you jump a warrior, are another warrior, or can evade all their high damages while applying your own burst damages, you can't kill a warrior in a fight. They have a lot of passive healing, they being a heavy profession boosting their defenses 300 points higher than medium armor, and have a lot of passive defenses that make them durable as heck. Basically, the guy that Armageddon is quoting wants a warrior combined with a guardian. But that wouldn't be fair. While I think warrior should be able to survive well in a duel, I don't think they need to be unbeatable in a duel, all the time. That should come down to the opponents skill level and build.Like I said in other posts, any bruiser style build shouldn't be able to do high damage and have high defenses to not only obliterate but also be unkillable. Any build that focuses in on 2 specific functions should be able to do them ONLY decently, or do one thing great, and the other decently, if not slightly below decently.For example: I make a build that I want to focus in on doing damage but being able to survive. The damaging aspects should either be great or decent, and the durability should be decent/slightly below decent (if the damaging aspect is at a great level in regards to the slightly below decent) or great (if the damaging aspect is decent/slightly below decent in regards to this).

Yep. It seems like Anet forgot the whole Damage Vs sustain when it come to Warrior. me (Ele) if i want burst damage i have to sacrifice pretty much all my defense. What exactly does Warrior give up? Nothing. Top Tier health and armor. The best passive and active defense along with equip and forget passive healing, on top of other healing abilities. Passive proc defenses. Insanely good active defenses that pretty much can be easily cycled through making one pretty much immune to any and all damage. Insane mobility, CC options. Hell, what other class can run through a whole zerg and survive with barely taking any damage because of all the blocks, immunities and defenses?

Simply put, it was a DREADFUL decision to give them top tier health and armor and then give them traits and abilities that make them near unkillable. What other class could run FULL zerk gear and still have 20k health and 3k armor? This is just poor balance. When they have like 0.000001seconds of time when they can be attacked in a fight, it says something. Those that say Warrior need a buff, they are either SO dreadful they wouldnt be able to do well with any class if they aren't good at warrior or they feel like they need to be able to kill any class. Any spec. Without taking any damage at all and doing it ll with their eyes closed bashing their face on the keyboard.

Yep. That is the problem. Warrior does everything too well. Damage, Sustain, Mobility, defense, CC. Everything. I can't think of another class that can do everything as well as a Warrior can.

Bro take them to church and PREACH!! this is seriously and honestly a breath of fresh air to see someone who understands this. Again all valid and true points. I hope a dev is watching and reading this. But then again, that could be wishful thinking =(

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Ghos.1326 said:Bro take them to church and PREACH!! this is seriously and honestly a breath of fresh air to see someone who understands this. Again all valid and true points. I hope a dev is watching and reading this. But then again, that could be wishful thinking =(

Well, look at what happened with Berserker. It was in need of a few buffs here and there and look what happened. They buffed it into space. Warrior can't be balanced. Wont be balanced. I mean look at all the warriors at the moment saying that its weak. I would dread to think how they would react to ACTUAL weak classes if they think Warrior is in such a bad place.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

The WORST offenders when it comes to lazy (bad balance)

Condition builds: Mostly Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage. Press everything. Because everything is conditions.Warrior: Broken would be an understatement. Hilarious people actually want buffs to a class that is THIS mindless to play. Being immune to everything for most of a fight ISNT skilled based gameplay.

[Ivantreil.3092]

Druid survivability needs to be looked at again, many tools for avoid damage, or for hold damage for enough time and completely dish out any sign of damage done, dash and access to stealth makes +1 an experienced druid useless, they will just comeback once your +1 is gone.

The worst part of it is that they are achieving damage while having such insane sustain potential, (something that firebrand at least isn't doing at all).

I have seen scourges and holos in peril trying to duel them, and somehow, the druid is in full health like they weren't dueling for a while already?

It took some whopping combos for finally take down one of these bunker druids, nothing fun to duel at all that's for sure.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Ivantreil.3092 said:Druid survivability needs to be looked at again, many tools for avoid damage, or for hold damage for enough time and completely dish out any sign of damage done, dash and access to stealth makes +1 an experienced druid useless, they will just comeback once your +1 is gone.

The worst part of it is that they are achieving damage while having such insane sustain potential, (something that firebrand at least isn't doing at all).

I have seen scourges and holos in peril trying to duel them, and somehow, the druid is in full health like they weren't dueling for a while already?

It took some whopping combos for finally take down one of these bunker druids, nothing fun to duel at all that's for sure.

Yeah, Staff needs its mobility skill heavily reduced/nerfed and being able to remove all conditions and go into stealth when activating Avatar is SO annoying. How They get an ability that is an evade, healing and blast finisher on an 18second cool down. I just dont know considering how many times Ride The Lightening (on a MELEE!) weapon keeps getting nerfed or changed. This skill needs its evade removed, healing reduced and the cool down increased.

[Svarty.8019]

@Karl McLain.5604 said:The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

This decision seems to contradict the whole purpose of the patch: to remove the idea of Dire/Trailblazer (bursty condition) specs as viable builds. Are OP builds acceptable for specific classes? Forget it. I know the answer to that question.

[Zenith.7301]

Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta, coughChronocough.

[Zenith.7301]

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta,

cough

Chrono

cough

.

A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 epeen garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

A game should not be balanced on duels.

[Cynz.9437]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta,

cough

Chrono

cough

.

A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 kitten garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

A game should not be balanced on duels.

Cry me a river. Mesmer has spec that is WANTED/must have in raids. Takes revs or thieves - nobody wants any of their specs in raids. In any other pve mode you can play literary anything and be ok. Meanwhile mesmers together with scourges literary ruining anything that is left of pvp. Mesmers have luxury problems atm and don't want to lose their iWin button by the looks of it.

Game is not balanced on duels, game is balanced on raids and conquest and once in ages on wvw if certain builds becomes way too good in zerg environment.

At this point i really start to wish for mesmers to be nerfed to revenant levels so they learn how to be thankful for having at least one viable spec.

[Aylaine.1036]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta,

cough

Chrono

cough

.

A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 kitten garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

A game should not be balanced on duels.

Cry me a river. Mesmer has spec that is WANTED/must have in raids. Takes revs or thieves - nobody wants any of their specs in raids. In any other pve mode you can play literary anything and be ok. Meanwhile mesmers together with scourges literary ruining anything that is left of pvp. Mesmers have luxury problems atm and don't want to lose their iWin button by the looks of it.

Game is not balanced on duels, game is balanced on raids and conquest and once in ages on wvw if certain builds becomes way too good in zerg environment.

At this point i really start to wish for mesmers to be nerfed to revenant levels so they learn how to be thankful for having at least one viable spec.So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this. Also if you weren't clearly blinded by the ocean you would see that most mirage players also

want

a nerf in PvP, just not a blanket nerf that affects their PvE build as well. Y'a know, splitting the balance between game modes?

[Cynz.9437]

@Aylaine.1036 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta,

cough

Chrono

cough

.

A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 kitten garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

A game should not be balanced on duels.

Cry me a river. Mesmer has spec that is WANTED/must have in raids. Takes revs or thieves - nobody wants any of their specs in raids. In any other pve mode you can play literary anything and be ok. Meanwhile mesmers together with scourges literary ruining anything that is left of pvp. Mesmers have luxury problems atm and don't want to lose their iWin button by the looks of it.

Game is not balanced on duels, game is balanced on raids and conquest and once in ages on wvw if certain builds becomes way too good in zerg environment.

At this point i really start to wish for mesmers to be nerfed to revenant levels so they learn how to be thankful for having at least one viable spec.So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this.

Are you talking about yourself? Because you want wvw/pvp population suffer due to mirage design atm and you are trying to defend it. You actively wish for thousands of players to have frustrating experience because you want your iWin button to remain. Yeah, no sympathy for you.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta,

cough

Chrono

cough

.

A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 kitten garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

A game should not be balanced on duels.

Cry me a river. Mesmer has spec that is WANTED/must have in raids. Takes revs or thieves - nobody wants any of their specs in raids. In any other pve mode you can play literary anything and be ok. Meanwhile mesmers together with scourges literary ruining anything that is left of pvp. Mesmers have luxury problems atm and don't want to lose their iWin button by the looks of it.

Game is not balanced on duels, game is balanced on raids and conquest and once in ages on wvw if certain builds becomes way too good in zerg environment.

At this point i really start to wish for mesmers to be nerfed to revenant levels so they learn how to be thankful for having at least one viable spec.

Ummm Renegade is a good spec in raids, and is the best Condi dps at the moment. While providing good support through CC and Boon Corrupt. It's also a really popular off-healer, probably the second best and better with a Quockbrand. Condi Daredevil isn't unwanted. It still is pretty good. Just shows how much you don't know much about raiding.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Aylaine.1036 said:So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this. Also if you weren't clearly blinded by the ocean you would see that most mirage players also want a nerf in PvP, just not a blanket nerf that affects their PvE build as well. Y'a know, splitting the balance between game modes?

Simply put. Mesmer/Chrono and Mirage are flat out broken. That can't and shouldn't be denied. The ONLY ones that will say otherwise when it comes to PvP/WvW are the ones that know they are being carried by it being so hugely overpowered and unbalanced. You say there are some that want it nerfed? I bet you, there are more that DON'T want it nerfed.

This anger shouldn't be targeted at players for pointing out something is so insanely broken but at the Devs who STILL wont' split the balance between WvW/PvP and PvE. 99% of issues would be resolved if they did that. The problem is, i just don't think they have the man power or ability to be able to do that.