Pvp fixed with 3 changes to each class.

[Nova.4608]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Okay we learned you have only one option. Sad (and super boring to play, I've tried Warrior), but...

...this option is OP.

Spellbreaker is still able to run a sheer endless rotation of damage immunity > a lot of damage > kiting > regeneration > repeat. Core Warrior has some weaknesses but hits so hard, that it destroys almost everyone before that weaknesses show up. Your opponent dies while trying to bait your "Defense" passives.

Only warriors complain like "We are nerfed to the ground because we can't do 1v4 anymore."

If Spellbreakers are so op (they aren't as strong as you make them to be) then nerf spellbreakers? why do you have to butcher ALL other Warrior specs (which are a terrible joke already) because of spellbreaker? What you're doing is exactly what i wrote in my 2 posts. You're butchering an entire class, without even fixing the problem.

Spellbreaker survives too much? Put an internal CD on Guard CounterBoon removal too high? Nerf Breaching StrikeToo much damage? then nerf Revenge CounterNerfing Loss Avversion does a bith of both. Less adrenaline = less Condition Cleansing via Cleansing Ire

These 4 small changes hit Spellbreakers only, without butchering the rest of the class

@"Loop.8106" said:

You forgot Adrenal Health. The MMR nerf wasn't really justified as it hit core Warrior and not Spellbreaker. I'd much rather see Adrenal Health get gutted.Although, you can't underestimate the potency of Adrenal Health + Healing Signet. As for thieves having more evades than Warriors, I'm not so sure. S/D acro definetly has, but D/P thief and Core warrior has about the same amount (if the Warrior runs Signet).

You say that 100b is the only hard hitting skill warriors have. You somehow forget to mention Arcing Slice, Evis (if core) Dagger burst (Whatever the name of that skill is). Whirling Attack hits for way too much considering it also gap closes and is an evade frame. You now have access to boonrip (some of which is unblockable) which goes against the core design of Warrior."Warriors have no access to boon removal so their high in-power physical damage attacks power through the enemy defenses." Was the philosophy upon creating the Warrior skills way back when. The same skills that has been buffed, not nerfed since. You're saying that your only form of sustain is Shield / Healing Signet / Endure / Defy and Resistance. The thing about these skills are what makes Warrior so polarized. Having them last too long and Warrior comes the unstoppable monster that was Spellbreaker, Shoutbow and Condi zerker. Having them not last long enough makes them trash-tier.

Warriors need some sort of sustain that isn't all or nothing. They should not be either completely immune to all damage or being a punching bag. That's terrible design.

Also, in your previous post. You stated that Guardian has way more access to damage mitigation. Not touching Firebrand (because it's clearly busted) and focusing on Core Guardian and Dragonhunter; Core Guardian has access to 3 aegis every 70 seconds. 3 Attack block every 35 seconds with Focus 5. Dragonhunters has access to 2 Aegis every 60 seconds + 1 on the shield 4 every 24 seconds. This is 4 attacks every minute. They also has a Frontal 4 second block every 64 seconds which applies 6 seconds of protection. So your post is a lie. Guardian does NOT have more access to passive damage mitigation considering NONE of our skill has evade frames built in to them. We have less access to Protection than Spellbreaker. Break Enchantments, S/D thieves and Scourges all have access to Boon-Rip / Conversion. Two of which is unblockable.

So no, not counting Firebrand (which is sold as a support class). Guardian has absolutely no where close to enough sustain to even slightly compare to what Core Warrior OR Spellbreakers have.

Touching Adrenal Health/Signet, again, does little to nerf Spellbreakers and damages all other Warriors specs heavily. I'm not going to discuss about how many evades classes have as it's an entire topic in itself, and not really important to the Spellbreaker argument.

I'm not saying that 100b is our ONLY damage, but it's the hardest hitting one and it's extremely easy to counter. Breaching Strike strenght (Dagger Burst) is the 2 boon removal, not the damage. the same can be said about the entire spellbreaker class. Damage isn't that high, it's the boon removal that some think it's too strong (Imo it's fine, but i don't play much Spellbreaker nor find them very often)

I know that warriors are either Livelords or made of paper but that would require an entire class rework to fix and let's be honest. It's not happening. Ever. Anet never showed interest in it, and i doubt they ever will.

And yes, when i was talking about guardians i was talking about Firebrands, since we're talking about a Elite Spec. I should have been more precise, my bad. Sold as a support class, but actually are indestructible monsters, the only counter they have would be to snipe them at the right time with burst spikes. Unreliable since power builds are much rarer and hard to pull off on a good Firebrand.

Anyway... I still have to understand why Spellbreaker is such a priority when abominations like Scourge and Firebrand exist. Scourge, imo is a superior, ranged version of Spellbreakers. Instead of removing boons they convert it into Conditions, they can even steal the boons they convert with Feed From Corruption (extremely underrated talent) Maybe it's me not understanding how the game works, but Spellbreakers are far from being as strong as many claim.

[zinkz.7045]

@"miriforst.1290" said:Passive elixir S removal is fair, especially if similar actions are taken across the classes (thief even got one added recently, not that they use it though).

And this is why the forums are considered a joke, different classes have different mechanics, different advantages/disadvantages and that you think removing all of a certain type of skill/mechanic is somehow "fair", when it has hugely differing impacts on different classes, is well... How about we removal all heals other than your heal skill, I am sure tempest and druid will be fine with that, or how about all blinks cos I am sure that will be fair to mes/thief.

Beyond that it is always amusing when people complain about things like the passive traits like endure pain, elixir S, etc, when they are playing a game which for the most part passively aims your skills for you.

@Razor.6392 said:Gonna post a list of 3 changes per class, let me know your thoughts at the bottom.

That your ideas are poorly thought through, for instance if you want to nerf a specific elite spec, then nerf that not stuff that is in core that is used by builds that are already sub-par.

@Razor.6392 said:No idea, just nerf that kitten.

...

[JVJD.4912]

You think pvp players will stop complaining after they implemented your fixes?? bwahahah

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@JVJD.4912 said:You think pvp players will stop complaining after they implemented your fixes?? bwahahah

Forum wars. Each complaint adds a condition to you and your team mates. Each compliment removes all conditions from you and your team mates.

[Razor.6392]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Gonna post a list of 3 changes per class, let me know your thoughts at the bottom.

General changes:

• Corrupted might to weakness duration reduced from 10 seconds to 3.
• Corrupted regeneration, swiftness, protection and vigor (poison, cripple, vulnerability and bleeding respectively) duration reduced from 10 seconds to 6.
• Decapping a point now takes 1 more second. Capturing a point now takes 1 less second.

Scourge:

• Punishment skills no longer inflict cripple.
  One less cover condi to worry about - doesn't affect pve.
• Ghastly Breach: Radius reduced to 240 from 300.
  Covers the entire point as it is right now.
• Nefarious Favor: Now has a 3/4 cast time.

Necro / Reaper:

• Life force degen reduced slightly.
• Life Blast: Projectile speed increased by 33%.
• Dark Path: Projectile speed increased by 33%.

Firebrand:

• No idea, just nerf that kitten.

Holosmith:

• Minesweeper: Now has a 5 seconds ICD. Can no longer activate while invulnerable.
  N/c
• Self Regulating Defenses: Trait has been removed.
• Holo Leap: Cooldown increased to 3 seconds.
  2 seconds for a 4-6k damage nuke is a little unfair.

Deadeye:

• Needs a trait and design shakeup that 3 stray buffs won't fix.

Mirage:

• Jaunt: Confusion stacks decreased to 1 from 3.
• Mirage Thrust: No longer inflicts Daze. Now inflicts [condition] instead.
  Spammable daze (and respective proc traits) every dodge isn't healthy for the game
  .
• Axes of Symmetry: Power damage reduced by 15%, evade frames removed, confusion stacks (player) reduced to 3 from 5.

Druid:

• Celestial Avatar: Cooldown increased to 18 from 15.
• Celestial Shadow: Stealth and superspeed duration reduced to 2 from 3 seconds.
• Signet of Stone: Cooldown decreased to 70 seconds from 80, duration reduced to 4 seconds from 6.

Soulbeast:

• No changes. Fix bugs if there's any.

Spellbreaker:

• Defy Pain: Trait has been removed.
  Less passive invulns please.
• Last Stand: This trait now has a visual icon on the warrior's status bar indicating when it's up.
• Rush: Range adjusted accordingly.
  I realize this was never hitting people back then, but now it hits way outside of its maximum range
  .

Weaver:

• Elemental Refreshment (minor master trait): Now also removes a condition when using a dual attack.
  Weaver needs condi removal not reliant on water.
• Unravel: Grants 1.5 seconds of superspeed and quickness on activation and attunement switch.
  Currently not worth taking in any ele build
• Plasma Beam: Damage reduced by 10% and cooldown decreased to 16 from 18 seconds.

Elementalist / Tempest:

• Final Shielding: Trait has been removed.
• Arcane Prowess (reworked): Gain a stackable bonus to all attributes on attunement swap (20 stat points per stack, max 5 stacks). Buff duration: 5 seconds (unless refreshed).
• Overloads now gain 1 stack of stability (4s) by default. Increased to 2 when equipping Harmonious Conduit.

Renegade:

• Lol who knows how this prof works?

Herald / Core rev:

• No changes. Fix bugs if there's any.

Ooo, Quaggan disagrees with your ideas, mostly because they are inconsistent (e.g. removal of Defy Pain*), or are not accurate*

.

You would remove Defy Pain, while not touching traits which work same way, like passive Arcane Shield (Ele), passive Elixir (Engi), passive SoS (Ranger), passive evades (Thief), passive stealth (Mesmer) which are all poorly designed abilities.**For example: what is problem in case of Scrouge are instant F2-5 with no tells or any delay and too much boon corruption, in case of Mirage mostly too much of confusion and Elusive Mind.

I did mention ele's arcane shield though...

Mesmer stealth often gets him revealed, and won't save you from a million damage coming around you. I did forget about thief acro (mentioned in a previous post) and the other autoproc traits aren't as viable. Ranger's would obviously need to go as well I suppose, as well as rev's crystal hibernation.

[Vagrant.7206]

Holosmith:

• Minesweeper: Now has a 5 seconds ICD. Can no longer activate while invulnerable. N/c
• Self Regulating Defenses: Trait has been removed.
• Holo Leap: Cooldown increased to 3 seconds. 2 seconds for a 4-6k damage nuke is a little unfair.

• Point to me on the doll where the holosmith touched you. Or better yet... where you tried to touch the holosmith while they were in S. The funny part about using minesweeper while in S is that it's only punishing to players who are right up on my ass. Otherwise, I just wasted a dodge and potentially killed myself.
• Umm... Elixir S at 25% health is often a death sentence for engineers with condis and a big flashing neon sign to other players to focus them down in a few seconds. Unlike Defy Pain, which gives warriors ample room to recover, Self Regulating Defenses is a very, very last ditch attempt to save the engineer from being nuked. Of the passive proc invulns/passive procs, it's probably one of the most balanced.
• I'm not strictly opposed to this change. I'd be more in favor of tuning the damage down a little bit (it's over the top) instead of raising the CD, as holo leap is supposed to be a gap closer, which engineer does not have many of.

[Razor.6392]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"miriforst.1290" said:Passive elixir S removal is fair, especially if similar actions are taken across the classes (thief even got one added recently, not that they use it though).

And this is why the forums are considered a joke, the fact you don't understand that different classes have different mechanics, different advantages/disadvantages and think that removing all of a certain type of skill/mechanic is somehow "fair", when it has hugely differing impacts on different classes, is well... How about we removal all heals other than your heal skill, I am sure tempest and druid will be fine with that, or how about all blinks cos I am sure that will be fair to mes/thief.

@"Razor.6392" said:Gonna post a list of 3 changes per class, let me know your thoughts at the bottom.

That you lack understanding of the game (but then you wouldn't even suggest "fixing" PvP with 3 changes per class if you did), and that your ideas are poorly thought through in multiple ways, but to take one way, if you want to nerf a specific elite spec then nerf that not stuff that is in core that is used by builds that are already sub-par.

@"Razor.6392" said:No idea, just nerf that kitten.

Pretty much sums things up.

Here's a thought, person. Have you considered that some things are badly designed, whether they're in core trait lines or not? Are you seriously going to defend passive invulnerabilities that only 4 classes get (warr, thief, engi, ranger), as if these classes RELIED on those traits to survive? Lmao.

"Hugely differing impacts on different classes"

Poor warriors, the 2 seconds of defy pain invuln will mean they're absolute GARBAGE now! Same with engineers! It's poor game design dude. They could always get a good replacement trait instead, but they need to go. It really, really blows my mind that people could advocate and defend passive invulns. Traits that play the game for yourself, that save you (most of the times) when you mess up.

Sad, really. Says a lot about your intellect.

@Poelala.2830 said:These changes are the worst things one could think of. Thank god you don't work for the 'balance' team.

Please elaborate. I think they're fair, and not over the top. A good first step but if you think they're soooo atrocious then let me know.

@Nova.4608 said:

@"Razor.6392" said:

I think you're blowing things out of proportion. Very few classes have actual autoproc get out of jail cards that make them truly immune to damage of some kind (engi, warrior and I forgot to add acro thief).

Out of all those classes only warrior and engi use those 2 traits as mandatory in their build. Yet other classes can still survive (despite having less base health and less toughness than warrior). How do they manage? I'm really curious.

I didn't add replacement traits (other than the ele one) because nobody likes to read custom changes. That's up for ANet to decide.

Lastly, I'm not for removing ALL immunities, only those that activate passively. Poor warriors have it so rough... highest health, armor, good mobility, great sustain, immunities up the kitten and absurd damage to top it off. Clearly if they lose the get out of jail card they will be trash tier huh?

I'm not blowing things out of proportions, if you think that, you are either extremely biased or never played Warrior once. We're FORCED to take Defy Pain because there's no other canditate in that tree that is actually useful to ANY of our builds and because it's one of the bandaids that make this game run. Obiously you cherrypicked my post, refused to try and debunk it and simply wrote that i'm "blowing things out of proportion" because it's easier that way than to actually write a real response to something that you seem to not understand.

You want to know how warriors survive? Not sure if that's a real question or not, but i'll answer anyway. Healing Signet + Berserker Stance +DefyPain-Endure Pain +Shield Stance. Every Warrior build HAS to take these skills and equip a shield to survive. Much Build diversity. You make the argument that other classes can survive without it. A Thief can evade 15times more than a Warrior can. Guardians have tons of passive damage mitigation and so on. Every class has their own way of surviving, Defy Pain and Endure Pain are the core defense of Warriors. High HPs and Armor mean nothing when conditions can tick for ridicolous amounts all at once. Armor doesn't mitigate Conditions. Besides that other classes can reach or even out-hp Warriors. Like Necromancers.

You say warriors have incredible damage and mobility. Both their damage and mobility comes from what? another forced choice. Greatswords.If Warriors did have "Incredible damage and great mobility" the class wouldn't be stuck as the last played class in PvP. Your "Great Damage" comes from Hundred Blades, a 3.5s cast, and if you get hit by that, then i'm sorry, but you must learn to play better. Once upon a time, landing a HB was about CC, well guess what, we lost that too ages ago when Hammer and Maces stun were nerfed.

I'm tired of explaining things now, since i know that you aren't interested in hearing how classes actually work, i'll end my post telling you this.

If you're making a thread about PvP balance, at least make sure to know how other classes work first, identify the issue and explain why it's an issue and how it can be solved. Writing a list of "Nerf this, Remove This" without the above "rules" is pointless.

The problem here is that you think I'm a complete scrub, it's obvious in your tone. I never implied you suck dude. You talking to me thinking you know what I'm talking about, because since I'm a total scrub, obviously I MUST be talking about hundred blades when I mention damage, right? Holy shit, the condescending tone in your post is hilarious to say the least.

Let's begin with a big no. Warrior won't suddenly be trash because you no longer have an automatic activation proc that prevents any and all physical damage for 2 seconds. Shouldn't you dodge? Shouldn't you use the active endure pain, or your shield blocks? You keep talking about conditions but defy pain is not about the conditions. It's your get out of jail free card that saves you whenever you mess up. Like it or not my man, that's poorly designed and needs to go! Everyone agrees with this notion, I'm really sorry. Maybe the replacement trait ANet thinks of would be good! To be honest, we both know nothing will be removed. ANet caters to casuals way too much. I will forever say, though, that stuff like this hurts the game. Drop the training wheels my man, even if it's the only viable choice in that trait line, it doesn't mean it's healthy for the game, do you understand yet?

Breaching strike does 4k, full counter does 4k, arcing slice does 6.5k, rush can do almost 7k, whirlwind attack does from 4k to 8k, axe autoattacks do 3k and evis can do 10k, all on a class with the highest health and armor. I dunno, I suppose the tradeoff is that they're telegraphed abilities? I honestly see almost no downsides to a warrior, at least against a power class. Anyway, that's subjective right? This is mostly about your outrageous thought about me that the reason I say warriors do a lot of damage is because of hundred blades lol. What is this, 2012? Oh well, all I want is defy pain removed, you can keep your fair damage and sustain, all I ask is that if I hit you, and you don't react, you should die. It's that simple. If you want buff back endure pain to 4 seconds, just delete the automatic passive invuln.

[Dreams.3128]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@JVJD.4912 said:You think pvp players will stop complaining after they implemented your fixes?? bwahahah

Forum wars. Each complaint adds a condition to you and

your

team mates. Each compliment removes

all

conditions from you and your team mates.

Sad, but such a true statement.

[Razor.6392]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Holosmith:

• Minesweeper: Now has a 5 seconds ICD. Can no longer activate while invulnerable.
  N/c
• Self Regulating Defenses: Trait has been removed.
• Holo Leap: Cooldown increased to 3 seconds.
  2 seconds for a 4-6k damage nuke is a little unfair.

• Point to me on the doll where the holosmith touched you. Or better yet... where you tried to touch the holosmith while they were in S. The funny part about using minesweeper while in S is that it's only punishing to players who are right up on my kitten. Otherwise, I just wasted a dodge and potentially killed myself.
• Umm... Elixir S at 25% health is often a death sentence for engineers with condis and a big flashing neon sign to other players to focus them down in a few seconds. Unlike Defy Pain, which gives warriors ample room to recover, Self Regulating Defenses is a very, very last ditch attempt to save the engineer from being nuked. Of the passive proc invulns/passive procs, it's probably one of the most balanced.
• I'm not strictly opposed to this change. I'd be more in favor of tuning the damage down a little bit (it's over the top) instead of raising the CD, as holo leap is supposed to be a gap closer, which engineer does not have many of.

Yeah it's either one of the two. Damage reduction or 1 more second for holo leap. I'd be fine with either of those.

The mines... it's just not right, whether it's a death sentence to you, or you don't like it, or if it's an L2P issue or whatever. A player shouldn't be able to do that much damage in an invuln state where you can't use abilities. Mist form (ele) was nerfed for less than this.

Elixir S, be honest with me, is the autoproc something that engis need to survive, like the warrior fanboy above is saying? I've heard many times that people take that because there's nothing better.

[Vagrant.7206]

To be honest, there is nothing better in that traitline than the autoproc. It isn't necessary per se, but if you play PvP as an engineer, you'll realize just how quickly you can get nuked. I've been brought down to 25% health in a matter of a couple of seconds (typically by elementalists or thieves). Elixir S has been a saving grace in those moments, although it shows that you're in a desperate situation (again, aforementioned eles and thieves). It also often proves to be a double-edged sword, as I can be killed by condis while in it, or it cancels a skill I needed to finish somebody off. Of the invulns out there, it's probably the least offensive one.

Nah, I think the mines are fine. People ride my ass HARD when I'm in elixir S -- minesweeper's damage is a HUGE punishment to people who don't know what "back off" means. All I'm saying is... don't tread on me. I'm tiny.

Damage reduction would be better. Engineers have very few gap closers with a decent CD, so upping the CD would cause the same problems scrapper had with not being able to stay on target.

[zinkz.7045]

@"Razor.6392" said:Here's a thought, person. Have you considered that some things are badly designed, whether they're in core trait lines or not? Are you seriously going to defend passive invulnerabilities that only 4 classes get (warr, thief, engi, ranger), as if these classes RELIED on those traits to survive? Lmao.

"Hugely differing impacts on different classes"

Poor warriors, the 2 seconds of defy pain invuln will mean they're absolute GARBAGE now! Same with engineers! It's poor game design dude. They could always get a good replacement trait instead, but they need to go. It really, really blows my mind that people could advocate and defend passive invulns. Traits that play the game for yourself, that save you (most of the times) when you mess up.

The passive thing always makes me laugh, you realize that things like passive invurns pale into insignificance compared to the fact that you are playing a game that for the most part passively aims for you, the game literally aims for you, why aren't you complaining about the biggest passive thing in the game or why are you even playing such a passive game? Oh that's right you are fine with that, there is a word for that.

I realize you don't understand the game, but let's take engy has an example, it requires passives that break stuns, reduce damage, etc, the reason for this is it only has one weapon bar (at least until Holosmith came out if you want to count that as a weapon), so it has always had more pressure on the utility slots to make up for damage, cc, movement, condi clears, etc that it lacked because of only one weapon bar. (and then on top of that, that engy weapons other than hammer have always been deliberately undertuned)

Now if you had the slightest clue about game design you would realize that you can't simply pile those things on top of other utility skills, because you have an opportunity cost when you use them, hence why engy has always had those passive traits, because shockingly the guys that designed the classes know a lot better than you.

Sad, really. Says a lot about your intellect.

Irony. Maybe stop attacking into invulns.

[Razor.6392]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Razor.6392" said:Here's a thought, person. Have you considered that some things are badly designed, whether they're in core trait lines or not? Are you seriously going to defend passive invulnerabilities that only 4 classes get (warr, thief, engi, ranger), as if these classes RELIED on those traits to survive? Lmao.

"Hugely differing impacts on different classes"

Poor warriors, the 2 seconds of defy pain invuln will mean they're absolute GARBAGE now! Same with engineers! It's poor game design dude. They could always get a good replacement trait instead, but they need to go. It really, really blows my mind that people could advocate

and

defend passive invulns. Traits that play the game for yourself, that save you (most of the times) when you mess up.

The passive thing always makes me laugh, you realize that things like passive invurns pale into insignificance compared to the fact that you are playing a game that for the most part passively aims for you, the game literally aims for you, why aren't you complaining about the biggest passive thing in the game or why are you even playing such a passive game? Oh that's right you are fine with that, there is a word for that.

I realize you don't understand the game, but let's take engy has an example, it requires passives that break stuns, reduce damage, etc, the reason for this is it only has one weapon bar (at least until Holosmith came out if you want to count that as a weapon), so it has always had more pressure on the utility slots to make up for damage, cc, movement, condi clears, etc that it lacked because of only one weapon bar.

Now if had the slightest clue about game design you would realize that you can't simply pile those things on top of other utility skills, because you have an opportunity cost when you use them, hence why engy has always had those passive traits, because shockingly the guys that designed the classes know a lot better than you.

Sad, really. Says a lot about your intellect.

Irony. Maybe stop attacking into invulns.

So you consider active dodges and tab targeting passive gameplay. Ok. Futile to even try to argue with you. Thanks for the laughs and enjoy getting saved by traits because you cannot react in time to use your own damage mitigation abilities (so much for passive gameplay right?)

Smh.

[Loop.8106]

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

• To be honest, there is nothing better in that traitline than the autoproc. It isn't necessary per se, but if you play PvP as an engineer, you'll realize just how quickly you can get nuked. I've been brought down to 25% health in a matter of a couple of seconds (typically by elementalists or thieves). Elixir S has been a saving grace in those moments, although it shows that you're in a desperate situation (again, aforementioned eles and thieves). It also often proves to be a double-edged sword, as I can be killed by condis while in it, or it cancels a skill I needed to finish somebody off. Of the invulns out there, it's probably the least offensive one.
• Nah, I think the mines are fine. People ride my kitten HARD when I'm in elixir S -- minesweeper's damage is a HUGE punishment to people who don't know what "back off" means. All I'm saying is... don't tread on me. I'm tiny.
• Damage reduction would be better. Engineers have very few gap closers with a decent CD, so upping the CD would cause the same problems scrapper had with not being able to stay on target.EDIT, ArenaNet. Your Image embedding is beyond trash. Holy fuck.The Self Regulating Defense coupled with the Healing skill reset makes the "Back off" argument invalid. Unless you stay on them they have ample time to reset.

I'd like to see holo-leap get the same treatment Trueshot did. Considering it's a gap-closer, Leap finisher and non-reflectable. It should not have a 3rd of the cooldown, more damage and a finisher attached to it.

https://imgur.com/hjdeqSw

[zinkz.7045]

@Razor.6392 said:So you consider active dodges and tab targeting passive gameplay. Ok. Futile to even try to argue with you. Thanks for the laughs and enjoy getting saved by traits because you cannot react in time to use your own damage mitigation abilities (so much for passive gameplay right?)

LOL, that you consider tab targeting as actively aiming is hilarious, 10/10 for hypocrisy.

Ok. Futile to even try to argue with you

Likewise when you don't even understand the basics of why the game is designed the way it is, even when you have it explained to you.

[Khaliel.3918]

Druid:

Celestial Avatar: Cooldown increased to 18 from 15.

that would be pretty good, but the "bunker druid mains" would be too mad about it

[mov.1246]

Your Holosmith changes, just no.

Minesweeper: This trait is absolutely ok. You have to sacrifice tools traitline which means a loss of a lot utility and mobility. Nothing else in exposives trait line is really worth taking over tools except minesweeper.Self regulation defense: Well, just give us better options in this tier. You can do nothing while Elixir S is acitve, you can not use skills, you can not heal, can not clear condis, and if you immobilized you also can not move. It is just there to prevent beeing nuked and instant killed. And FYI this trait was already nerfed from 60 sec ICD to 72 sec.Holo leap: damage is the only thing holosmith can bring to a team. Nerf our damage and you will never see an engineer again. And holos are already pretty glassy, no nerfs required.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Woow wooow wooow hold on there, jaunt is an elite if you make a elite skill 1 stack then its useless and its not much of a mobility skill cos the range is minor .the axe ambush is rarely used by mirages need a rework but a nerf in the current stat i don't think so.Axe of symmetry is already a bad skill rarely hits the target very slow to shadow step i guess making this skill more playable and nerf a bit the condi would be good

if you remove or change elusive mind every mirage gonna swap to chrono mirage is useless without this trait . and the mesmer is build around confusion and torment if you change that to something else it's not fitting.

Jaunt useless without 3 stacks of confusion? I mean, it's definitely not the main problem with mirage, but reducing the mirage condi spam is needed. And it is a great skill regardless of the stacks of confusion for mobility (remember, 3 charges), condi remove and power damage.. It's still by far the best option for any mirage but it would definitely reduce the insane confusion stacks.

I heard complaints about axe mirage in WvW, that's why I would accept a nerf for it, it doesn't really matter for spvp honestly.

Mirage is not useless without Elusive Mind though. Personally I ran IH as power mirage (plat t2-3).But, it's basically making condi mirage overpowered along with the amounts of confusion.

Or we could just rework EM altogether. But it means that mirage would need additional stunbreak / condi cleanse somewhere else.

If you remove the condition stacks from jaunt an keep the power damage it's wrong cos mirage suppose to be a condi build, axe is a condition weapon so i prefer to remove or reduce the power damage and keep the condi stacks and EM i don't think that need a rework or any thing the skill is fine a must have if you are against a team that do a lot of cc .My problem with what you said tho! is if you play a power mirage and using IH isn't this wrong cos simply the power dmg of the clones is almost useless but if you play a condi build i can see that this trait is used to stack more condi but power man !! that's weird and i guess you should know that the IH don't affect your phantasms .

[Razor.6392]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Woow wooow wooow hold on there, jaunt is an elite if you make a elite skill 1 stack then its useless and its not much of a mobility skill cos the range is minor .the axe ambush is rarely used by mirages need a rework but a nerf in the current stat i don't think so.Axe of symmetry is already a bad skill rarely hits the target very slow to shadow step i guess making this skill more playable and nerf a bit the condi would be good

if you remove or change elusive mind every mirage gonna swap to chrono mirage is useless without this trait . and the mesmer is build around confusion and torment if you change that to something else it's not fitting.

Jaunt useless without 3 stacks of confusion? I mean, it's definitely not the main problem with mirage, but reducing the mirage condi spam is needed. And it is a great skill regardless of the stacks of confusion for mobility (remember, 3 charges), condi remove and power damage.. It's still by far the best option for any mirage but it would definitely reduce the insane confusion stacks.

I heard complaints about axe mirage in WvW, that's why I would accept a nerf for it, it doesn't really matter for spvp honestly.

Mirage is not useless without Elusive Mind though. Personally I ran IH as power mirage (plat t2-3).But, it's basically making condi mirage overpowered along with the amounts of confusion.

Or we could just rework EM altogether. But it means that mirage would need additional stunbreak / condi cleanse somewhere else.

If you remove the condition stacks from jaunt an keep the power damage it's wrong cos mirage suppose to be a condi build, axe is a condition weapon so i prefer to remove or reduce the power damage and keep the condi stacks and EM i don't think that need a rework or any thing the skill is fine a must have if you are against a team that do a lot of cc .My problem with what you said tho! is if you play a power mirage and using IH isn't this wrong cos simply the power dmg of the clones is almost useless but if you play a condi build i can see that this trait is used to stack more condi but power man !! that's weird and i guess you should know that the IH don't affect your phantasms .

Where you would propose reducing confusion stacks, then? Anything to prevent 20+ bursts.

Some people mentioned nerfs to ineptitude and related core mesmer traits, but I disagree with that. Keep it mirage only.

[Delweyn.1309]

In this post we clearly see the "I'm Rock (necro), please nerf paper, scissors are fine" philosophy.

[Razor.6392]

@"Delweyn.1309" said:In this post we clearly see the "I'm Rock (necro), please nerf paper, scissors are fine" philosophy.

Are you implying that I main necro? =)

[JayAction.9056]

@"mov.1246" said:Your Holosmith changes, just no.

Minesweeper: This trait is absolutely ok. You have to sacrifice tools traitline which means a loss of a lot utility and mobility. Nothing else in exposives trait line is really worth taking over tools except minesweeper.Self regulation defense: Well, just give us better options in this tier. You can do nothing while Elixir S is acitve, you can not use skills, you can not heal, can not clear condis, and if you immobilized you also can not move. It is just there to prevent beeing nuked and instant killed. And FYI this trait was already nerfed from 60 sec ICD to 72 sec.Holo leap: damage is the only thing holosmith can bring to a team. Nerf our damage and you will never see an engineer again. And holos are already pretty glassy, no nerfs required.

Holosmith and rev fulfill the same role, except holo does a lot more burst damage than rev did when rev was "OP", it's easier to set up (2 second hololeap, lmfao what???), it's cleaving damage extremely large AOE and they have just as much sustain if not more and better group utility.

Holo could use A LOT of nerfs along with other POF specs and still be viable. There is too much room for error on all these high reward specs.

Lets be logical. You can do more damage than a heavy class hp bar in one combo that comes loaded with CC from stealth like a thief but it's impossible to do that back because of the invuln that you don't even have to think about. Lmao? What

I was so tempted to actually roll Holo this season because it was so stupid op. Like if you see somebody not getting instant kills on holo constantly you have to figure they are playing it wrong (and they are).

[Nova.4608]

@Razor.6392 said:The problem here is that you think I'm a complete scrub, it's obvious in your tone. I never implied you suck dude. You talking to me thinking you know what I'm talking about, because since I'm a total scrub, obviously I MUST be talking about hundred blades when I mention damage, right? Holy kitten, the condescending tone in your post is hilarious to say the least.

Let's begin with a big no. Warrior won't suddenly be trash because you no longer have an automatic activation proc that prevents any and all physical damage for 2 seconds. Shouldn't you dodge? Shouldn't you use the active endure pain, or your shield blocks? You keep talking about conditions but defy pain is not about the conditions. It's your get out of jail free card that saves you whenever you mess up. Like it or not my man, that's poorly designed and needs to go! Everyone agrees with this notion, I'm really sorry. Maybe the replacement trait ANet thinks of would be good! To be honest, we both know nothing will be removed. ANet caters to casuals way too much. I will forever say, though, that stuff like this hurts the game. Drop the training wheels my man, even if it's the only viable choice in that trait line, it doesn't mean it's healthy for the game, do you understand yet?

Breaching strike does 4k, full counter does 4k, arcing slice does 6.5k, rush can do almost 7k, whirlwind attack does from 4k to 8k, axe autoattacks do 3k and evis can do 10k, all on a class with the highest health and armor. I dunno, I suppose the tradeoff is that they're telegraphed abilities? I honestly see almost no downsides to a warrior, at least against a power class. Anyway, that's subjective right? This is mostly about your outrageous thought about me that the reason I say warriors do a lot of damage is because of hundred blades lol. What is this, 2012? Oh well, all I want is defy pain removed, you can keep your fair damage and sustain, all I ask is that if I hit you, and you don't react, you should die. It's that simple. If you want buff back endure pain to 4 seconds, just delete the automatic passive invuln.

No, i don't think you're a complete scrub and i never implied you suck. If you feel i did, well, that's your problem. Playing victim doesn't give credit to your statements.

Let's start by saying that i'm completely against any and all passive invulnerabilities and i wouldn't be upset to see defy pain get replaced by something else, when the time is right to make such changes (Hint, not now) until now, that tactic is a must-have for Vanilla Warriors. Spellbreakers could do without it, but you can't remove it from them only.

Then you talk about having to dodge, use the active endure pain and the shield blocks, jailfree card. You think a Warrior can survive for long without doing that? The entire class is based on avoiding damage and sustaining with Healing Signet. Defy pain is far from being a Jail free card that saves whenever you mess up. it's a 2s damage immunity, it's not WoW paladin Auto-bubble talent. let's be real now.

Whether you think the majority agrees with you doesn't matter, because neither of us knows if it's true, nor it's important to Balance. Then you talk about casuals, which have nothing to do with it (but hey, bashing people is fun i guess) and go on talking about training wheels (I'm the condescending guy that thinks the other is a scrub, isn't that right?)

I'm not even going to talk how wrong those numbers are the fact that you'd need a Berserker/Demolisher amulet to maximize the damage (Places you roughly at 21k hp, not the insane amount you think) but let's assume they are right.

Breaching Strike, Full Counter, Arcing Slice and Eviscerate (Nowhere near 10k hits) are supposed to be high damage abilities, they are our burst skills, and have counters to them. You're not playing against training dummies.Rush is extremely easy to evade and currently is acting weird, sending you to the opposite direction of your target sometimes. It can deal 7k dmg with a crit...if you somehow to manage getting hit by it.Whirlwind attack swing only once if you go straight trough the enemy and 2/3 if you have Quickness and depending on the path, easy to evade.And i'm not even going to talk about the imaginary 4-8k Axe AA hits

After you're done shouting random numbers without providing any basis or proof to them you change the subject saying that Warriors have almost no Downsides. Grass is always greener on the other side.

Anyway, trying to explain things to you is futile, i tried to, but i'm not interested in wasting my time writing my arguments while you just cherrypick my post and strawman all the way.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Loop.8106 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

• To be honest, there is nothing better in that traitline than the autoproc. It isn't necessary per se, but if you play PvP as an engineer, you'll realize just how quickly you can get nuked. I've been brought down to 25% health in a matter of a couple of seconds (typically by elementalists or thieves). Elixir S has been a saving grace in those moments, although it shows that you're in a desperate situation (again, aforementioned eles and thieves). It also often proves to be a double-edged sword, as I can be killed by condis while in it, or it cancels a skill I needed to finish somebody off. Of the invulns out there, it's probably the least offensive one.
• Nah, I think the mines are fine. People ride my kitten HARD when I'm in elixir S -- minesweeper's damage is a HUGE punishment to people who don't know what "back off" means. All I'm saying is... don't tread on me. I'm tiny.
• Damage reduction would be better. Engineers have very few gap closers with a decent CD, so upping the CD would cause the same problems scrapper had with not being able to stay on target.
  EDIT, ArenaNet. Your Image embedding is beyond trash. Holy kitten.
  The Self Regulating Defense coupled with the Healing skill reset makes the "Back off" argument invalid. Unless you stay on them they have ample time to reset.

I'd like to see holo-leap get the same treatment Trueshot did. Considering it's a gap-closer, Leap finisher and non-reflectable. It should not have a 3rd of the cooldown, more damage and a finisher attached to it.

https://imgur.com/hjdeqSw

The heal reset you talk about is on an entirely different traitline (inventions instead of alchemy), and you'd have to spec for it (aka: no minesweeper if you choose that trait, because minesweeper is under explosives). Even with a heal available at 25%... you think that's not going to get interrupted/cc'ed? Almost everybody will CC an engineer IMMEDIATELY after elixir S wears off. It's like the most obvious thing in the book.

Holo leap is non-reflectable? You don't say... like every other melee skill out there? True shot is... a shot. I'm ok with tuning the damage down, but not the CD.

[ZeteCommander.4937]

holo damage is too crazy

[Eleazar.9478]

Lol at all the cele avatar nerfs, it's the rugged growth scaleing with healing power that needs to be nerfed.