Splitting conditions into 2 categories: Damaging and Inhibiting, for the sake of cleansing

[NaXorb.9732]

I had an Idea that could perhaps make it easier and give the players more options when dealing with conditions.Splitting them into Inhibiting and Damaging, and adjusting the condi-cleansing skills to cleanse only one type, or both in appropriate casesA lot of times you want to cleanse that crucial high stack of bleeding/burning/confusion from you but your cleanse only removes a stray vulnerability.Perhaps a system like the suggested one would address that problem and be much better.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21460/moving-forward-re-condi#latest

[Klipso.8653]

I believe there's an order of precedence for which condis get removed first so it's never random.

I know at least for stripping booms there is an order to which ones get stripped first.

[NaXorb.9732]

@Klipso.8653 said:I believe there's an order of precedence for which condis get removed first so it's never random.

I know at least for stripping booms there is an order to which ones get stripped first.

Condis right now get removed in the last-in-first-out order based on their application, leaving little control of which conditions are removed first.There is an order for stripping and converting boons, but that's a different case.

[Edelweiss.4261]

Were conditions to be split, I'd include a third category: Debuffs.

[Swagger.1459]

@NaXorb.9732 said:I had an Idea that could perhaps make it easier and give the players more options when dealing with conditions.Splitting them into Inhibiting and Damaging, and adjusting the condi-cleansing skills to cleanse only one type, or both in appropriate casesA lot of times you want to cleanse that crucial high stack of bleeding/burning/confusion from you but your cleanse only removes a stray vulnerability.Perhaps a system like the suggested one would address that problem and be much better.

Every other game has 2 main types of damage... Power and DoT (damage over time). Certain skills have secondary effects (slow, immob, poison...) tied to them. Anet needs to make skills intended for condi into dot. These dots are mitigated by some characters stats (like toughness and armor), and have cleanses only work on secondary effects of skills (because we still need dot damage skills and builds to be viable). We need anet to do some rational things here...

@"Swagger.1459" said:These will be simplified suggestions... The changes will be great for wvw, and the rest of the game too.

AMA quotes to start...

“We’re looking at the condition damage issues that are inherent to the scaling number of players in WvW. Major mode-centric changes are a major part of balance patches and we’ll be iterating through several potential changes specifically for WvW. I wouldn’t expect huge mode-specific balance changes before the first post-PoF balance patch”

“Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice.”

The Suggestions...

1. A stat, that players can build for with gear, that mitigates condi damage... Toughness would be my personal preference.

2. Remove condition damage from auto-attacks.

3. Weapon attacks designed for condition damage are changed to DoT (damage over time) skills using 1 particular condition damage per tick. Examples using the AMA quotes for guidance... A power weapon skill is assigned to hit for 1,000 raw damage. A new condi DoT skill is assigned to hit for 1,200 condition damage, and hits an opponent for 300 condition DoT damage over 4 seconds.

Ranger Shortbow damage type examples using the above suggestion...

~Crossfire- X power damage. No bleeds.~Poison Volley- X poison DoT over X seconds.~Quick Shot- X bleed DoT over X seconds.~Crippling Shot- X bleed DoT over X seconds.~Concussion Shot- X power damage.

*You keep in place all the other secondary “stuff” going on with the skills. So Quick Shot still provides evade and swiftness... Crippling Shot still provides cripple and immobilize...

4. Assign each individual weapon skill and slot skill to use only 1 type of DoT damaging condition. You still keep secondary movement impairing and hard conditions on skills...

Look at the difference between these skills and you’ll see what I mean.

Way crazy and over-the-top condi skill, and highlights the overarching condi issues this game faces...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spite

Well designed condi skill, and what I’m talking about with the above with assigning 1 DoT condi to all skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Is_Power

5. Cleansing skills become power and condi DoT damage mitigation skills, but they still remove secondary soft (cripple, chill, ...) and hard (daze, knock down... ) condition effects. These redesigned cleanses do not remove condi DoT damage...

6. Skills that produce hard condition effects remain the same.

7. All stats and equipment remain and function the same way, except expertise...Either remove expertise so the devs can have duration control on skills for balance, or expertise can function like precision does, but only for condi DoT damage.

[Leo G.4501]

I don't think categories are necessary as the game has capabilities to target specific conditions.

Rather than categorizing conditions (unless you were going to reallocate the effect of stats on those condition categories) the skills and traits should be changed to diversify the vulnerabilities of different skill/profession combos. For instance, elementalist water cleansing could have a bias toward burning (like Cleansing Water or Cleansing Wave will always remove Burning over 5 stacks) or ranger cleansing having a bias toward poison (like Evasive purity will always remove poison over 5 stacks).

I also think more dynamic interactions with conditions and boons can be made, like maybe having a guardian trait that triggers when you're burned that removes other conditions periodically or add to the trait "Shrug it off!" (call it "Walk it off!") where you use "Shake it off!" when you have some conditions on you and while you suffer from Cripple, you gain reduce damage to condi or reduced duration to condi or reduced cooldown on utilities or something. We already have protection on Soulbeast reducing condition damage and a stance that "consumes" conditions and makes you immune to them for a short time, how about having quickness periodically removing conditions (put it on Deadeye on "Be Quick or Be Killed", quickness you apply periodically removes conditions) or have Mercy also apply an affect that stops the target from applying condis by instantly converting their condis to boons.

It should look more like a rock-paper-scissors thing where you're thinking "burining an ele isn't going to do much" or "crippling a warrior is a bad time", etc.

[NaXorb.9732]

@"Edelweiss.4261" said:Were conditions to be split, I'd include a third category: Debuffs.

the "inhibiting" conditions I meant are debuffs :grin:

[Edelweiss.4261]

I thought> @NaXorb.9732 said:

@"Edelweiss.4261" said:Were conditions to be split, I'd include a third category: Debuffs.

the "inhibiting" conditions I meant are debuffs :grin:

I was thinking you meant controlling conditions(eg. immobilize) rather than status-affecting conditions(eg. vulnerability). I suppose the term "debuff" wasn't quite appropriate. I think conditions like immobilize and vulnerability should also be handled separately.

[Leo G.4501]

@Edelweiss.4261 said:I thought> @NaXorb.9732 said:

@Edelweiss.4261 said:Were conditions to be split, I'd include a third category: Debuffs.

the "inhibiting" conditions I meant are debuffs :grin:

I was thinking you meant controlling conditions(eg. immobilize) rather than status-affecting conditions(eg. vulnerability). I suppose the term "debuff" wasn't quite appropriate. I think conditions like immobilize and vulnerability should also be handled separately.

Why?

[DeadlySynz.3471]

This would require a heavy overhaul on all classes and how both cleanses and conditions interact with each other. There is no chance this will ever happen, not with a game 5 years old. Maybe this would have worked if it was implemented at the beginning.

We need to face facts here, when players are either complaining about or addressing condition changes, they are talking about Scourge. The simplest and easiest way to deal with scourge is to hop on a ranged class; either ranger, or deadeye. That is the fix. Because players don't want to do this, it's a player problem, not a balance problem.

[Khisanth.2948]

This already exist ... for example check the skills given by Engi's med kit.

[MachineManXX.9746]

@"Khisanth.2948" said:This already exist ... for example check the skills given by Engi's med kit.

This is true. Many traits and skills remove "movement impairing conditions" or "damaging conditions" for example.

[Egorum.9506]

Why not have condition cleanses prioritize the highest stacks of conditions on you first?

Ie. 20 confusion, 12 bleed, 3 burn, blind, cripple

2 condi clear removes confusion and bleed every time first, no rng

[Taltevus.3289]

Becasue Bleed and vuln are grossly excessive. While burn is not but does stupid damage.