Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast - Fix needed

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@anduriell.6280 said:Also to make work all the bugged traits and skills which don't do anything when in beast more, and all the traits which trigger when using a beast ability should trigger when cast and not after the beast ability has finished.

Idd this will be nice and will give some traits more sense.

[Prophet.1584]

until the day comes that regeneration becomes a stackable buff (among other things) then no changes should be made to druid/ranger/soulbeast. there is absolutely nothing that counters the insane amount of condi spam in all competitive modes. The only significant condi clear that isn't on a long long cooldown is CA. how about we all just stop asking for nerfs to our own profession.

step 1: fix condi metastep 2: fix profession bugsstep 3: balance

steps 1 and 2 can be interchangeable

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Prophet.1584 said:how about we all just stop asking for nerfs to our own profession.

Totally agree with you!

[InsaneQR.7412]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:Without a doubt, Druid NEEDS to be nerfed. It has too much defense built into Avatar. It needs the same treatment as Ventari, good at healing others. Weaker at healing yourself. With all the stealth, mobility, full condi clear every 15seconds on top of its other condi removals. Will it be nerfed? Dunno. It does however NEED to be nerfed.

Soulbeast, i dunno. Feels quite solid to me. Some of the traits could do with tweaks and buffs.

I mean fir PvE this is just fine, but in good hands its undisputible in PvP.Hope they will make it a split nerf, so everygame mode has its benefits from it.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:@Lazze.9870 and @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 it's not strange that only you and few guys are complain about how weak is a Soulbeast vs Core Ranger? (in sPVP and WvW)

Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

Well, if you think Soulbeast has a small dps vs a core ranger, what can I say ... it's your opinion. I don't want to argue with you anymore, so play whatever you want.What I know is that for some ppl it is hard to learn new skills, new style of fighting due the fact they must learn to play with another 3 new skills ... and because of that, it is easy for them to say ... that specialization is not good at all ;).Have fun with your core ranger.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

Well, if you think Soulbeast has a small dps vs a core ranger, what can I say ... it's your opinion. I don't want to argue with you anymore, so play whatever you want.What I know is that for some ppl it is hard to learn new skills, new style of fighting due the fact they must learn to play with another 3 new skills ... and because of that, it is easy for them to say ... that specialization is not good at all ;).Have fun with your core ranger.

Ok you obviously cant read. This is where i dont bother with replies. You are mis interperating my posts so good luck getting killed and with that confirmation bias. Im out.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:Ok you obviously cant read. This is where i dont bother with replies. You are mis interperating my posts so good luck getting killed and with that confirmation bias. Im out.You are funy. I told you that I do a very good job in W3 with my Soulbeast, and that's why I said that Soulbeast is a very good class atm, even with all bugs, wrong synergy of Soulbeast traits etc ... I don't get killed, I die very rare.

[jalmari.3906]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:@Lazze.9870 and @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 it's not strange that only you and few guys are complain about how weak is a Soulbeast vs Core Ranger? (in sPVP and WvW)

Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

Hi. I don't think you've fought "right" kind of soulbeasts. Sometimes people who are just trying out builds go for max dps which is not a good choice. As a soulbeast you can have nearly 3k armor while still doing respectable dps. And cleanse condis etc. In pve you have more than 100% fury uptime etc. which automatically adds to your dps. Beast skills are mostly for utility or triggering quickness etc. You want your pet doing damage while those skills are on cd so you do not just sit in beast mode if you can avoid it. There is absolutely no reason why proper soulbeast build would have less survivability than ranger, or even druid if you go healing gear. Actually with bear or some other pets you can have more invulnerability than core ranger. I just wanted to point out this survivability claim is odd.

[anduriell.6280]

@"jalmari.3906" said:

Hi. I don't think you've fought "right" kind of soulbeasts. Sometimes people who are just trying out builds go for max dps which is not a good choice. As a soulbeast you can have nearly 3k armor while still doing respectable dps. And cleanse condis etc. In pve you have more than 100% fury uptime etc. which automatically adds to your dps. Beast skills are mostly for utility or triggering quickness etc. You want your pet doing damage while those skills are on cd so you do not just sit in beast mode if you can avoid it. There is absolutely no reason why proper soulbeast build would have less survivability than ranger, or even druid if you go healing gear. Actually with bear or some other pets you can have more invulnerability than core ranger. I just wanted to point out this survivability claim is odd.

In my experience Soulbeast is a bit better than core ranger simply because of the Doylak instances and the archetype F3 skill.Still is lacking damage and defenses compared to other roaming classes like thief or mesmer.

Either way would be nice if the core ranger would get more group support with the mobile spirits and soulbeast the traits reworked to increase the condi and power (by coosing traits).

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@anduriell.6280 said:In my experience Soulbeast is a bit better than core ranger simply because of the Doylak instances and the archetype F3 skill.Still is lacking damage and defenses compared to other roaming classes like thief or mesmer.

I am agree with you, Dolyak Stance is one of the best utilities for ranger regarding defensive/mobility, I use it instead of Signet of Stone or other defensive utilities.I can't say that Soulbeast is lacking on damage compared to thief or mesmer, maybe we don't have exact the same amount of damage, but still with full marauder you can put down pretty fast another class (I don't want to mention berserker who can put down in 3 sec someone who doesn't pay attention or is on CD). But in the same time, yes we don't have the same defense/evade skills like mesmer or thief have. When we die, we die because we don't have enough skills to run away and disengage like mesmer and thief have.

@jalmari.3906 said:

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:@Lazze.9870 and @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 it's not strange that only you and few guys are complain about how weak is a Soulbeast vs Core Ranger? (in sPVP and WvW)

Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

There is absolutely no reason why proper soulbeast build would have less survivability than ranger, or even druid if you go healing gear. Actually with bear or some other pets you can have more invulnerability than core ranger. I just wanted to point out this survivability claim is odd.

Totally agree with you @jalmari.3906 , I think they didn't know how to play properly and that's why they are complaining.

[Lazze.9870]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:Totally agree with you @"jalmari.3906" , I think they didn't know how to play properly and that's why they are complaining.

I don't think you know how to read, type, or have a normal discussion, which why you don't understand anything at all.

I don't think you know how to play properly, which is why you fail to see the benefit of running a core ranger against a soulbeast...

... well, besides the fact that you're full of kitten in every single comment you make.

"Maybe it is an exaggeration, but it is almost like that. I didn't say it is possible to have those runes and gear in one build, just will be like! "

First of all.. I rest my case, second of all: No. Running a soulbeast is nothing "like" running a zerker+scholar build and sentinel+durability in one single build. It's not even close. Maybe it feels like that to you because you're getting carried by your support friends, like you did when you played celestial ranger with zero sustain and barely any utility.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:Totally agree with you @"jalmari.3906" , I think they didn't know how to play properly and that's why they are complaining.

I don't think you know how to read, type, or have a normal discussion, which why you don't understand anything at all.

I don't think you know how to play properly, which is why you fail to see the benefit of running a core ranger against a soulbeast...

... well, besides the fact that you're full of kitten in every single comment you make.

"Maybe it is an exaggeration, but it is almost like that. I didn't say it is possible to have those runes and gear in one build, just will be like! "

First of all.. I rest my case, second of all: No. Running a soulbeast is nothing "like" running a zerker+scholar build and sentinel+durability in one single build. It's not even close. Maybe it feels like that to you because you're getting carried by your support friends, like you did when you played celestial ranger with zero sustain and barely any utility.

@Lazze.9870 you make me laugh, really.First of all, I didn't mention your name when I talked with @"jalmari.3906" , but if you find yourself in that kind of group it's just your problem ;)I play ranger since beta, I got my Legendary title in sPVP at the beginning and I was among the first players with sPVP legendary backpack (I played with druid, warrior and elementalist), in w3 I beat almost every player I meet in 1 vs 1, only real problem for me are good/very good mesmers, but I think for all rangers (core or specialization) mesmers are our hardest opponent. Ofc I am not the best, I was beaten by duelist, they play a lot not like me 2 hours / day and usual they use different build/gear due to the class they face it. If you are on EU server and your server will be against Seafarer's Rest, please contact me to have some fights, you with your core ranger and me with Soulbeast. I have the same name on ranger Dragonzhunter. Once again I am not the best, but I know how to play properly.

On second, I didn't say ONLY "Running a soulbeast is nothing "like" running a zerker+scholar build and sentinel+durability in one single build." , I said if we can switch pets in Beastmode, it would be like ! without that or any CD, because from DPS (using Smokescale for example) you will go in Defense/Healing mode (Bear, Jacaranda etc) in a second. And this will be a huge advantage in a 1 vs 1 also in party vs party , zerg etc ... That's why I don't Anet to rush and make these changes without a proper vision of what and how these must be done, in that way that Soulbeast will not be OP. So please don't share only some words and propositions from my comment, don't be like media or lair journalists who put on the screen only part of someone comment ... because it is erroneous and misleading.

Also, if you want I can give you my friends name which I play and ask them if I am carried by them :D ... you will be surprised ... I play/roam with them because is more fun to spend 2 hours with someone, talk on TS , because almost everywhere you will meet group of 3-5 roamers ... very rare you'll find players roaming solo ...

Now, in the end, please stop attacking me here and come on the border to prove you that Soulbeast it is a really good class like it is now, with this traits line, utilities etc.

PS: I didn't say about people didn't know how to play ranger, but didn't know how to play Soulbeast if they still have that feeling that Soulbeast is weak and can be easily beaten by core ranger.

[Arheundel.6451]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:@Lazze.9870 and @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 it's not strange that only you and few guys are complain about how weak is a Soulbeast vs Core Ranger? (in sPVP and WvW)

Doesnt even make sense. I didnt say soulbeast is just weak against core ranger, but against everyone lol. Soul beast is a waste of a trait line in my experience. Compare it to WS or NM or BM, or even MM it just doesnt justify me dropping any of those trait lines. What for? Clunky daggers that under perform, lose my pet for subpar skills, small dps gain (yes small). And I lol'd for real when you said 100% rangers. Mate dont believe that bs for a second. If you see a ranger die in seconds in spvp its nearly always a soulbeast.

In terms of raw benefits like "super traits" , I can agree with you, soulbeast trait line is not better than NM or skirmishing/marksmanship if anything is actually worst : the only traits which can be considered super traits are Second skin and Unstoppable union, the rest are not worth dropping NM for.If instead we talk about actual utility ...then soulbeast can be considered a great elite spec idea, few beastmode skills like : jacaranda - rock gazelle , smokescale and electric wyvern make the whole elite work quite smoothly in given situation ; then we have the increased stats ( can be doubled by using beastmastery ).......we have something good here...far from perfect but good nevertheless

Going back to traitline discussion...yes possibly soulbeast is the second worst traitline coming out of PoF after the renegade traitline but this is the best part 'cause it better to have a bad traitline..than a bad mechanic/gameplay ( weaver says HI ), it's much easier to fix bad traits than wait for gameplay changes that will never come ( tempest/weaver say HI again )

All in all, soulbeast is a great spec : very fun to use and quite competitive , I can face with confidence and a 60% chance of victory anything but well a played thief ( all specs including deadeye the p/p variant ) and mirage , against which I prefer to use normal lb/staff druid ( not much choice there )...soulbeast is far far far far from being the worst PoF elite..go check renegade primarily and weaver for that, the first is just horrible bad design and the second is just a pve elite

[AEFA.9035]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:In my experience Soulbeast is a bit better than core ranger simply because of the Doylak instances and the archetype F3 skill.Still is lacking damage and defenses compared to other roaming classes like thief or mesmer.

I am agree with you, Dolyak Stance is one of the best utilities for ranger regarding defensive/mobility, I use it instead of Signet of Stone or other defensive utilities.I can't say that Soulbeast is lacking on damage compared to thief or mesmer, maybe we don't have exact the same amount of damage, but still with full marauder you can put down pretty fast another class (I don't want to mention berserker who can put down in 3 sec someone who doesn't pay attention or is on CD). But in the same time, yes we don't have the same defense/evade skills like mesmer or thief have. When we die, we die because we don't have enough skills to run away and disengage like mesmer and thief have.

This. I find that this is one of the problems for Ranger as well, we currently lack utility/weapon skill to quickly disengage besides Lightning Reflex and Quickening zephyr, and for engage we have GS 3 that's pretty much it i believe and its a bad one too cause its so flashy its not fast enough, it would be nice if during cast time we get an entire evade from it or reflect projectile or destroy projectile. But I would doubt it.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@AEFA.9035 said:This. I find that this is one of the problems for Ranger as well, we currently lack utility/weapon skill to quickly disengage besides Lightning Reflex and Quickening zephyr, and for engage we have GS 3 that's pretty much it i believe and its a bad one too cause its so flashy its not fast enough, it would be nice if during cast time we get an entire evade from it or reflect projectile or destroy projectile. But I would doubt it.

I don't use GS anymore, I find that Sword+Axe are much better. You don't have 1 evade (Swoop with 12 sec CD) and 1 block (Counterattack with 15 sec CD) but you get almost 3 evades from Sword (I consider that Monarch's Leap is some kind of evade because you can chose the direction where to leap) with only 8 sec CD and retaliation+huge damage+vulnerability with 25 sec CD ... also a little pull etc. You should try it instead of GS , at least vs class like Spellbraker, Reaper/Scourge (for Scourge only evasion and leap from sword and Path of Scars , because Whirling Defense is dangerous to use it near them), Thief, Mesmer. You will not disengage and run away very easy, but you can fight for long time due to the evades and leap. Also the leap from skill 2 of Sword is a combo finisher so you can use it to go invisible if you use Smokescale. With Survival/Nature Magic/Soulbeast you can face almost everyone.

[Sandzibar.5134]

I've found that classes you cant escape from with a GS, you still cant escape from with a sword. aka warrior / thief / mesmer.

You have to have a Merged gazelle charge available to have a chance in my humble experience.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Sandzibar.5134 said:I've found that classes you cant escape from with a GS, you still cant escape from with a sword. aka warrior / thief / mesmer.

You have to have a Merged gazelle charge available to have a chance in my humble experience.

I mentioned in my comment that Sword skills are not for escape/run away from combat and go to a safe place to refresh your CD (like thief or mesmer or spellbraker do when they want to disengage from a fight). Swords skills are for stay in the fight but with more chances to survive. I dueled with a very good Spellbreaker for more than 1 minute and he was a duelist, he is doing this all day , almost 24/24 :).Idd if you want to just escape from a fight instead to fight till the end, you should use Charge from Gazelle + GS (Swoop+Counterattack) , even a good mesmer or thief will catch you eventually.I like Smokescale vs Gazelle, because of that evade skill (Smoke Assault). I like to fight instead of run, even I am outnumbered.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@AEFA.9035 said:This. I find that this is one of the problems for Ranger as well, we currently lack utility/weapon skill to

quickly

disengage besides Lightning Reflex and Quickening zephyr, and for engage we have GS 3 that's pretty much it i believe and its a bad one too cause its so flashy its not fast enough, it would be nice if during cast time we get an entire evade from it or reflect projectile or destroy projectile. But I would doubt it.

I don't use GS anymore, I find that Sword+Axe are much better. You don't have 1 evade (Swoop with 12 sec CD) and 1 block (Counterattack with 15 sec CD) but you get almost 3 evades from Sword (I consider that Monarch's Leap is some kind of evade because you can chose the direction where to leap) with only 8 sec CD and retaliation+huge damage+vulnerability with 25 sec CD ... also a little pull etc. You should try it instead of GS , at least vs class like Spellbraker, Reaper/Scourge (for Scourge only evasion and leap from sword and Path of Scars , because Whirling Defense is dangerous to use it near them), Thief, Mesmer. You will not disengage and run away very easy, but you can fight for long time due to the evades and leap. Also the leap from skill 2 of Sword is a combo finisher so you can use it to go invisible if you use Smokescale. With Survival/Nature Magic/Soulbeast you can face almost everyone.

This i agree with so much. The burst of the offhand axe is amazing as long as you dont get interupted. So stab up and dont get boon stripped and interupted.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:The burst of the offhand axe is amazing as long as you dont get interupted. So stab up and dont get boon stripped and interupted.

Yes, always I use Dolyak Stance before using Whirling Defense.