Thief need to be change.

[DeceiverX.8361]

DJ - sorry, I kinda worded that poorly.
With backstab, based on what you said, I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.
I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

[bq pd.2148]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

[babazhook.6805]

You can also use Sigil of Night. It not overly expensive to build a rifle that only used at night using this sigil.

As to SE I have always maintained it one of the best cleanses in the game and the addition of DE with even more stealth options that can be used rather then CnD made it even more so. The fact Thief has so many ways to target cover conditions specifically resulted in the changes to SE making it exponentially more effective as a cleanse.I do in fact fight roaming scourges and can keep ahead of them in the cleanse game via avoidance and active cleanses.

As far as condition cleanses go , the changes upcoming that are directed to Confusion will be most interesting. Acro as a whole can become one of the better Condition cleanse traitlines any class has access to.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

I’m still calling bs on this MUDse. There is no way you are consistently hitting 27k on every target with a single DJ.

[bq pd.2148]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

I’m still calling bs on this MUDse. There is no way you are consistently hitting 27k on every target with a single DJ.

i didnt say on every target but a glassy deadeye surely i will hit more then 27k with a max malice DJ.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

I’m still calling bs on this MUDse. There is no way you are consistently hitting 27k on every target with a single DJ.

i didnt say on every target but a glassy deadeye surely i will hit more then 27k with a max malice DJ.

On glassy targets sure. But that’s the risk of running glass stats, and as others have pointed out, if you get hit with DJ and have maxed malice, you deserve the instant down.

[bq pd.2148]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

I’m still calling bs on this MUDse. There is no way you are consistently hitting 27k on every target with a single DJ.

i didnt say on every target but a glassy deadeye surely i will hit more then 27k with a max malice DJ.

On glassy targets sure. But that’s the risk of running glass stats, and as others have pointed out, if you get hit with DJ and have maxed malice, you deserve the instant down.

and if you had read my posts, i said balancewise it is fine. my point is just that it is unhealthy design.i just had today again a 30min chat with some french people claiming it is cheating that i did deal 30k dmg to their weird burn guard build. even uploading a video of the fight was not enough for them, i really tried to help them understand the mechanics - sure you can say their ignorance of the mechanic is enough to justify that i stomped them like this. but many people especially in wvw lack the understanding of basic mechanics, i get regularly whispered with stuff like 'hf with the ban' ' cheater, video report to anet' etc. and i dont know how many people are just thinking the same without voicing it. this creates alot of work for anet if they got to handle all those tickets and frustration about all those 'hackers' for them average joes.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DJ. Based on what you said I was assuming you were referring to before the implementation of Deadeye. Even then, prior to Deadeye, a signet build like mine would engage similarly with 10 might and nearly a 50% total damage modifier from DA and the old AS, and getting over 20k was still pretty rare unless the enemy was pretty much AFK as glass.

Either way, the issue really still persists with abusing permanent stealth uptime which is a direct consequence of D/P and SA.

I've always been fond of the idea of giving SA tools upon being revealed to encourage more active play or simply rewarded for entering stealth from a non-stealthed state akin to the old Infusion of Shadows trait, but I've really never been able to get the support from this community. It's healthier design by miles and allows for the thief to have more means of bursting without breaking the class or coming close to doing so if stealth gets involved.

SA bonus are linear while in stealth so the longer you are in stealth the more you profit, if for instance SE removed 3 damageing conditions on entering stealth, SR healed like 1k and gave 3 ini on entering stealth but nothing for stayin in it , even resilliance of shadows could simply apply a lets say 5s buff with its current effect or just apply protection for such a duration and only on entering stealth etc. this would promote a more in and out of stealth play.DE made the stealth stacking even stronger as it adds stealth with silent scope on a 40% uptime with SA, that is not visible to opponents so they cannot counterplay here as they can with black powder + leap combos and it will be harder to track the thief.

for DJ only 27k is rather low on a deadeye unless he was not glass but cavalier / valk mix with hidden thief for the crits.

I’m still calling bs on this MUDse. There is no way you are consistently hitting 27k on every target with a single DJ.

i didnt say on every target but a glassy deadeye surely i will hit more then 27k with a max malice DJ.

On glassy targets sure. But that’s the risk of running glass stats, and as others have pointed out, if you get hit with DJ and have maxed malice, you deserve the instant down.

and if you had read my posts, i said balancewise it is fine. my point is just that it is unhealthy design.i just had today again a 30min chat with some french people claiming it is cheating that i did deal 30k dmg to their weird burn guard build. even uploading a video of the fight was not enough for them, i really tried to help them understand the mechanics - sure you can say their ignorance of the mechanic is enough to justify that i stomped them like this. but many people especially in wvw lack the understanding of basic mechanics, i get regularly whispered with stuff like 'hf with the ban' ' cheater, video report to anet' etc. and i dont know how many people are just thinking the same without voicing it. this creates alot of work for anet if they got to handle all those tickets and frustration about all those 'hackers' for them average joes.

Well therein lies the problem with the game in general then. If it’s not a thief burst, then it’s a mesmer burst, and if it’s not that, then it’s the elementalist scepter burst, and if it’s not that, then.... See where I’m going with this?

Fact is, there a several “one shot” burst builds in the game. All one has to do is comb through each of the profession forums here and someone will be complaining about the burst build there. If DE burst build is unhealthy, then they all are and the game needs a rather large overhaul.

Personally I don’t think DE is unhealthy. In the WvW tiers I play in, I rarely successfully down someone with my DE. Most people are extremely aware I’m there when I’m stacking malice and will 9 times out of 10 dodge me.

[DeceiverX.8361]

The problem isn't OHKO so much as it is doing so from stealth and sustained stealth on what are really just defined as safe builds. There's a reason nobody complains about eviscerate warrior.

[bq pd.2148]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:The problem isn't OHKO so much as it is doing so from stealth and sustained stealth on what are really just defined as safe builds. There's a reason nobody complains about eviscerate warrior.

well that got buffed now with permanent mark. now once malice is up i can use DJ more often then standart endurance regen for a dodge - ofc not everytime with assassins signet maybe i will put it away now as i can use DJ more often.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:The problem isn't OHKO so much as it is doing so from stealth and sustained stealth on what are really just defined as safe builds. There's a reason nobody complains about eviscerate warrior.

Nobody complains about warrior burst at all since it’s been neutered. Does anyone actually still play warrior burst anymore?

[Sojourner.4621]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

[Sojourner.4621]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Yeah you're prolly right here... I run a be quick build to kill before I ever hit max malice, so I honestly never noticed one way or the other. For the record, this build doesn't even use DJ to burst down, it uses Three Round, and does it in about two to three seconds from full HP, and will trigger faster than waiting for full malice to do optimum damage.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

After the Patch, you're right. Before the patch, you had to bring Haste.

[ZDragon.3046]

Lol its damn near impossible to get hit by Deaths judgement unless you are immobilized stunned or simply got played into using all your dodges before hand. If you sound is on it has an audible cue that triggers a good half second before shot goes off. Simply dodge on audio cue and it will never hit. Triple tap on the other hand is another story that requires use of hard reads and adaptation. Usually after you out play a Dead eye once or twice at most using a rifle they die. Daredevil is far harder to deal with imo.

[babazhook.6805]

I am really liking the changes in my boon duration focused build. It does not matter what weapons you use , but having those boons up (max might , high quickness uptime) and not having to worry about losing the Malice while they are up is quite a nice boost.

BqoBk can gives me just under 7 seconds Quickness. Having also traited BOA i have a second quickness source and I will continue to use HASTE for a stunbreak and the third quickness source( Plus cleanse). With the malice change I am much better able to focus down my target and burst at will rather then waiting for that burst inside a narrower window. Using the combination of BOA, mark with BqoBk and haste , quickness duration is perpetual and the secondary of BqoBk (200 power and 200 precision) is there as long as you have quickness on.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

After the Patch, you're right. Before the patch, you had to bring Haste.

Eh, do you mean with having maxed malice stacks? Because the trait worked for me pre-patch, if you didn’t wait for malice stacks.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

After the Patch, you're right. Before the patch, you had to bring Haste.

Eh, do you mean with having maxed malice stacks? Because the trait worked for me pre-patch, if you didn’t wait for malice stacks.

I don't think we're on the same page...

I was talking about the Stealth-sitting DJ ambushers, who just wait for Malice Stacks to tick. The quickness gained from the initial mark before patch in full zerkers would only last 4 seconds, not the 20 seconds it would take to wait for Malice Stacks to max out in stealth, so they'd have to bring Haste or re-mark to regain Quickness if they intended to use it with DJ.

But you're right, BQBK as a trait was working fine.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

After the Patch, you're right. Before the patch, you had to bring Haste.

Eh, do you mean with having maxed malice stacks? Because the trait worked for me pre-patch, if you didn’t wait for malice stacks.

I don't think we're on the same page...

I was talking about the Stealth-sitting DJ ambushers, who just wait for Malice Stacks to tick. The quickness gained from the initial mark before patch in full zerkers would only last 4 seconds, not the 20 seconds it would take to wait for Malice Stacks to max out in stealth, so they'd have to bring Haste or re-mark to regain Quickness if they intended to use it with DJ.

But you're right, BQBK as a trait was working fine.

Yeah, that’s what I meant with maxed malice stacks. I think we’re on the same page now. ;)

[arenta.2953]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Shadowcat.4397 said:kitten ... 36k dmgin 2 shot (17k and 19 k kitten) kitten nerf that . 1st shot kill me ... that is broken... That need to be nerft !!!!

ok lets see

first off, for that dmg.

1. your low toughness/armor
2. they were allowed to get deadeye's mark to full charge (Aka you were marked and didn't do something like run away, or use a stealth trap. and so you sat there while they kept their initative at full)
3. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the first attack
4. you didn't evade when the telltale red marker light appeared for half a secound before the 2nd attack
5. you didn't use any kind of block or evade
6. you didn't use a stun/daze/fear/knockdown/knockback/blind
7. you didn't use any AoE to find the stealthed thief that you know is there because you have a mark above your head slowly charging (WHICH YOU CAN SEE)
8. when deadeye mark changed from a dull red orb to a brightly flashing red
   DO SOMETHING LIKE PANIC
   orb, you didn't evade like the warning light told you.

in summary, congratz. you sat in the middle of the railroad tracks.you saw the train light coming, you heard it coming, you saw the light get brighter and brighter.

and you just sat there as it not only hit you once. but hit you a 2nd time as well.

i can't w8 till you tell us about when a Mesmer 1 shots you with mindwrack.

Always these biased players...

Okay let's add some objectivity to this thread:

• When a Mesmer stealthes up you know you are bursted within the next 3 seconds. Pretty easy to predict. On top of that it's multiple hits meaning the auto immunities of many classes will save you.
• When a Deadeye starts his mindgames, you have abolutely no idea when he will attack you.

And here comes the rant:A DJ in WvW oneshots a Marauder Reaper through Shroud. That's 17+25=42k HP. But I guess that's not a problem at all to you. Just be super focused for about 30s the mark is on you and dodge an attack on a 0.75s cast time. I mean that's a huge amount of time to react even if it's less than 0.5s because of Quickness. Everyone can do this. And there is even a sound. Come on - if there is a sound even noobs should react in 0.5s! How could anyone call this bad game design? Hell every competitive game should work exactly like this! 30 seconds mindgames, then oneshot (or just walk away - for the lols). Great!

Thank you Thief (aka most healthy class in the game) forum for the clarification! We love you.

There's also a red laser that leads from the deadeye to you, in addition to the sound, and the tell... and the shot moves slower than other projectiles. Even with the quickness, which the Deadeye probably won't have

unless they are firing the moment they hit perfectionist

, or are wasting a skill slot on Haste, you actually have closer to 1-1.25 seconds to dodge DJ once the thief starts channeling it, with one of the most obvious telegraphs in the game. Also, it only hits for 42k if it has a number of buffs from other players... it can't and won't hit this number solo, ever. The most it can peg on its own is around 22-28k. In a zerg, DJ is almost worthless because it only does that damage to its main target, which means other players body blocking is a serious problem.

Perfectionist doesn't grant Quickness... So the Deadeye needs to carry Haste if they want to speed up their cast-time.

... Yeah, I got nothing else.

Don’t really need Haste either. You can trait Be quick or be dead.

After the Patch, you're right. Before the patch, you had to bring Haste.

Eh, do you mean with having maxed malice stacks? Because the trait worked for me pre-patch, if you didn’t wait for malice stacks.

I don't think we're on the same page...

I was talking about the Stealth-sitting DJ ambushers, who just wait for Malice Stacks to tick. The quickness gained from the initial mark before patch in full zerkers would only last 4 seconds, not the 20 seconds it would take to wait for Malice Stacks to max out in stealth, so they'd have to bring Haste or re-mark to regain Quickness if they intended to use it with DJ.

But you're right, BQBK as a trait was working fine.

Yeah, that’s what I meant with maxed malice stacks. I think we’re on the same page now. ;)

heh, quick note. between the now 30 secound mark timeand 25 cooldown (down to 17.5 with trickery)

you could actually remark and gain quickness as you death judgement.

and if somehow you have the insane ability to stealth forever(maybe multiple thieves stacked shadow refuges), you could stalk and keep marking them for a while until you see them get paranoid and waste their block or evades.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Traited rifle with D/P and SA has enough stealth access for permanent stealth uptime if you don't miss a HS and can rotate Hidden Thief on an enemy. It's very easy to maintain it when just using SR and easily doable with Blinding Powder as well if comboing the blast on Black Powder. Trolling around on DE in WvW, I've gone over half an hour without leaving stealth just preying on people for the right snipe opportunity.

[PulsarianDevil.8125]

Death's judgment is a garbage ability; it should be scrapped and replaced.

[Boulder.3589]

Seems like Deadeye rifle punishes beginner pvpers really hard and it's also easy to pull off by anyone, but it's easier to counter than most other pvp builds once you learn. I guess its just traumatising to be punished that hard early on in your pvp learning experience.