Renegade Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[messiah.1908]

does the vigor bug with brutal momentum fix?

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

The issue with profession mechanics on renegade is that they compete for same resource with weapon and utility skills!No other profession does that! Profession skills are meant to enhance the gameplay and be gated with their own, specific mechanics (such as cooldowns or it's own resource pool).

Else yes, you do offer more options but you do not make gameplay richer, as at the end of the day cost-return scenario kicks in and either you end up ignoring F skill completely, or using it always at expense of many others given it's energy cost.

Much smarter choice would be to for example have F2-F4 skills prevent generation of new Kalla's Fervor stacks for a while. Then you can use them for burst scenarios with no new kalla's fervor after-effect. That's a choice. In case of energy cost you can't speak of burst as using Citadel Bombardment for example will gut your options to use other damaging skills and the results stays roughtly the same - continual damage instead of all-out scenario.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Bramley.1943 said:I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

They are probs afraid of it getting way outta hand with "chilled to torment stacks" trait.Also applying 20 stacks of chill in a short time, while max stacks cap is 5 is bit...flimsy to say the least.

[Jthug.9506]

@sleight.9638 said:Has the Blood Fury bug been fixed, that prevented it from granting the Bleeding Duration Bonus?

Great question, +1

[Jthug.9506]

@messiah.1908 said:does the vigor bug with brutal momentum fix?

FTFY for clarity:Has the brutal momentum bug where increased critical chance was being inconsistently applied while at full endurance been fixed?

Great question, +1

[Jthug.9506]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:I really like the changes the only potential problem I see is there is no swiftness available with any of the skills or traits. I guess the only problem will either be to choose innvocation for the small amount of swiftness or using speed sigil or traveller runes. Other than that looks excellent especially some condition management besides mallyx :D

Mounts should fix the worries about lack of swiftness, as they are 100% increased movement speed.

Overall good changes, though I have to agree that the Fskills seems way too costly still for what they do. Especially when considering that condi revenants usually rely on channeling their elites, then swapping legends. And the energy degen on soulceave is extreme at -9 pips.

But perhaps Soulcleave is only meant to be situational? It would be good with a dev perspective on how they envision renegade to be played. Currently as it stands, most are only taking it for a shortbow swap to have a ranged condi wep and maybe using a spirit or two before having to swap legends while ignoring the costly Fskills. Especially when adding shortbow energy costs ontop on an already energy starved revenant.

Also, could we get the message when out of energy changed? It says out of proffession specific energy. Why? just say Revenant energy, muchly jarring with that large message popping constantly.

I would think that for condi you would go with Razorclaw and CB to burn energy while you wait to swap back to Mallyx, for a power build doing pve I would think you would use soulcleave and impossible odds on swap, for optimal rotations... I'm sure the community will figure out the optimal rotations for different specs within a week or two.

[Cross Tobias.2680]

@Bramley.1943 said:I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

[Gutbuster.8745]

Looks better, but and apologies if it has been mentioned already.

Shortbow auto attack really need to apply torment rather than bleed, it would improve the synergy with other traits and just have a better 'revenant feel' about it.

I really dislike that we all of a sudden apply bleed when it's not been part of anything before.

[REKKRAP.1759]

Thank you for this update. Sounds like the energy rebalance will help the flow a lot. I can't wait to play my Ritualist! Oh wait... I mean Renegade! ;-)

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It's not enough. All of the function skills are still too expensive for what they do. The utilities still are still too expensive for what they do. You didn't buff the shortbow, you just exchanged the negligible energy costs on the weapon for an increase in recharge time.

[LoreChief.8391]

These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.

[Jthug.9506]

@Cross Tobias.2680 said:

@Bramley.1943 said:I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

They could maybe just give him the same effect as the sigil of hydromancy.

[Bio Flame.4276]

I still think and feel that Renegade is lackluster.Also, without Glint/Herald, the rest of the Revenant core class feels underpowered and lacking in synergy.

[Skyroar.2974]

@LoreChief.8391 said:These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.

Anet is intentionally avoiding nº3, as those traits would be mandatory. I also disagree with the popular opinion of removing energy costs from weapons, as that wouldn't fix the core problem, it would simply make energy management pointless. Having energy be at 100% instead of 50%, or decreasing (but not removing) the cost across all skills, seem like more interesting solutions to me.

[Kidel.2057]

Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

[messiah.1908]

@Kidel.2057 said:Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

[Kidel.2057]

What's the advantage of having energy on Kalla? Every skill has its own cooldown, energy on Kalla is completely irrelevant. It just prevents from using skills when they are off cd.

"Oh look, an enemy has stunned me during an upkeep, I'll just use Darkrazor's Daring to stunbreak"Not enough profession-specific energy. Of course since it's 30 energy cost.

Please Irenio, acknowledge the fact that we basically have 50 energy, since you never reach 100 in a real fight unless you stop using skills for 5 seconds.

Also all the skills that are too powerful to be spammed have high energy costs and no cd. If the energy cost is high you don't need to add cds. And vice-versa.

[Kidel.2057]

@messiah.1908 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

[messiah.1908]

@Kidel.2057 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

not at all as you can rotate skills. you put vulnerability while the other puts bleed

[Bovan.9481]

@Kidel.2057 said:Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

It was utterly broken before. What it used to do was apply a bleed on every single hit for the people effected. Getting 200+ stacks of bleeding in a raid setting per cast really wasn't that unheard of. Even attacks that hit multiple targets would apply a bleed to every target hit, and that for every person effected by the spirit. You could tag entire enemy zergs by just putting down the spirit in WvW. The duration of those bleeds weren't all that long to be fair, but when I did some calculations it still did an absurd amount of damage for the cooldown and energy cost.

It's still a very good skill, but now we're looking at 45-ish stacks of bleeding. Much more reasonable.

[Euthymias.7984]

Not sure if its been said anywhere, but Short Bow needs a bit more utility on the movement side.Its just damage, damage, more damage, did you ask for damage (with slow), and a knockdown.Couldn't Sevenshot/Bloodbane at least be an evade while firing? You'll need some form of movement with a skirmishing weapon like a Shortbow since you wont have the safety of 1.2k range.

[otto.5684]

@Euthymias.7984 said:Not sure if its been said anywhere, but Short Bow needs a bit more utility on the movement side.Its just damage, damage, more damage, did you ask for damage (with slow), and a knockdown.Couldn't Sevenshot/Bloodbane at least be an evade while firing? You'll need some form of movement with a skirmishing weapon like a Shortbow since you wont have the safety of 1.2k range.

It was mentioned before that neither SB or Renegade provide any mobility, evades and blocks. Not even swiftness. There has been no response at all in that regard.

@messiah.1908 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

not at all as you can rotate skills. you put vulnerability while the other puts bleed

Or neither? Outside of the CC break why would you every waste you energy outside soul cleave? It out dpses both utilities and provide sustainability as well.

[EnidLarr.1478]

is shortbow rev good with condi or power?

[Euthymias.7984]

@EnidLarr.1478 said:is shortbow rev good with condi or power?

It just isnt all that good.Mace/Axe seems more likely to generate the bulk of your condi damage while SB would be something to keep some condi pressure going when you can't be in Melee range.

[guildabd.6529]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

• Razorclaw's Rage: Added a removal limiter on the unique buff to prevent it from blowing out. Now has a maximum grant of 50 stacks of bleeding over 10 seconds if affecting 5 allies.So 10 stacks bleeding per ally?