Please improve ele

[Jdavis.8501]

Elementalist is on shaky ground right now in this current meta. I feel that core ele, tempest and weaver should be looked at and improved significantly. Condi clear was known to be a big aspect of having a support ele. This now feels totally negated by the heavy conditions from scourge and constant boon ripping from other class as well. Not to mention that ele already is a glassy class when you look at its base stats as well. Fresh Air ele seems to be the only impactful playstyle for elementalist currently. However even that is very squishy and heavily out shined by classes like warrior, engi and thief. I hope that there can be some decent changes to make ele viable without it being too squishy.

[Xillllix.3485]

The class needs more flexibility. I think we should be able to choose which Weaver #3 skills we want and be able to play without the double attune mechanic which doesn't work for most weapons like staff.

You should select Weaver, then get a selection menu above your #3 skill to swap it with a weaver skill of your choice. The mixing elements stuff is too confusing and the gameplay delay on skills 4 and 5 is too long to be consider seriously.

[Jski.6180]

Ele simply out dated its still balanced for 2012 not for 2018. Its condis are still with the mind set of non stacking dmg just duration, its condi clear is slower and of the mind set of cleaing 1 to 2 condis from 5 ppl is as strong as it should be, that boons such as fury and protection are the end all boons not stab and the other powerful boons, and that power dmg is the end all be all dmg type with out needing any unblock-able or not to be a projectile. Ele is simply out dated both tempest and weaver as well and the mind set behind the balancing of the ele class being a Jake of all triads is laughable when you look at any of the other elite specs.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I love ele and it is one of the most fun professions due to the constant skill usage, it makes me think and I like that. The only issue I have with it is the flexibility, like Xillllix said. I think the fact that it always gets fire, air, water and earth makes it hard to change up how you build ele. Because it always gets all the tools and will always have a jack of all trades essence, it's hard to focus builds at excelling in one particular area besides pure damage or pure healing. I think what could help is a revamp of skills and traits, but this would require more resources than I think Anet is willing to spend on a class that still performs well and is fun to play and doesn't have many apparent flaws. What I propose is to make the ele skills more bare-boned, while having many traits that add additional effects and act more so as skill upgrades as opposed to the normal situationally passive traits that ever class has. Maybe making each skill only have one function without traits, like your damage skills will only do damage or your healing skills are just pure healing. Then you can pick traits that add a lot of burning to fire skills, or traits to add a bunch of healing upgrades to water skills. Now of course if your taking the water trait line, most traits will make the water skills better, but their will be traits that also increase the supportive properties of the other elements, like condi clears or defensive boons to fire,earth and air. The air line would of course increase direct damage and critical hits, while also increasing speed. This would make it so even the water skills could put out damage. That's about all I've got in the idea department.

[Bamm.6975]

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

Till ele will be balanced in pvp/wvw around raids...i am afraid we still have to w8 for some miracle or next expansion. Or maybe when Karl&friends start to play pvp with ele...they would discover completely different dimension than pve where there are no aggressive npc's...but players armed with meta builds on other classes.

[Crann.1342]

Elementalist is the only class missing from high level play in 2 out of 3 of the gamemodes (WvW & PvP), it only sees play in PvE.

Mesmer, Guardian, Warrior, Necro, and Thief have meta builds in all 3 gamemodes.

Rev, Ranger and Engi have a meta build in 2 gamemodes, Ranger and Engi see niche use in WvW so you could say they see play in all 3.

Ele is good in blobs but not in high level GvG, in PvP Fresh air, lightning rod and mender Sw/d are all mediocre and never see play in Monthlys by competitive teams for good reason, Ele's only place is PvE.

Support wise it will always be outshined by a firebrand. A sword damage spec is just trash compared to the alternatives, you're basically a Revenant without the mobility and a lot less damage, scepter is just a gimmick and easily shut down at high level. A 1v1 bunker build at this stage has no kill potential, only stalls matchups and dies to +1s if against a good duo of classes unlike druid, spellbreaker or mirage if played well.

Just reroll to something else and come back to Ele a couple months before the next expansion when the game is hopefully somewhat balanced.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Ele's design is fundamentally inadapted in a heavy condi / boonhate meta. The prof has always been reliant on boons to survive (prot/reg) and to do damage (might/fury). Those are mostly generated by traits and self comboing, while other specs have more efficient mechanics to pressure/survive.While being the most versatile, it is also the most limited. There is nothing that you can do better, being spike/sustained damage, group utility, mobility, healing, condi/boon farting. It is also the easiest prof to interrupt and chain cc to death. Biggest tells and biggest cast/travel times for lowest efficiency. That's why Scepter/Focus FA works to some extent, and any pve content.Ele's effectiveness is too gear & trait dependent and is about choices and trade offs, but in my opinion it is what makes it the most balanced profession to play with/against.

[Arheundel.6451]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Ele's design is fundamentally inadapted in a heavy condi / boonhate meta. The prof has always been reliant on boons to survive (prot/reg) and to do damage (might/fury). Those are mostly generated by traits and self comboing, while other specs have more efficient mechanics to pressure/survive.While being the most versatile, it is also the most limited. There is nothing that you can do better, being spike/sustained damage, group utility, mobility, healing, condi/boon farting. It is also the easiest prof to interrupt and chain cc to death. Biggest tells and biggest cast/travel times for lowest efficiency. That's why Scepter/Focus FA works to some extent, and any pve content.Ele's effectiveness is too gear & trait dependent and is about choices and trade offs, but in my opinion it is what makes it the most balanced profession to play with/against.

Most balance you can say that twice...only profession you have to trade sustain for dmg, I wish the same principle would be applied to other professions

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Ele's design is fundamentally inadapted in a heavy condi / boonhate meta. The prof has always been reliant on boons to survive (prot/reg) and to do damage (might/fury). Those are mostly generated by traits and self comboing, while other specs have more efficient mechanics to pressure/survive.While being the most versatile, it is also the most limited. There is nothing that you can do better, being spike/sustained damage, group utility, mobility, healing, condi/boon farting. It is also the easiest prof to interrupt and chain cc to death. Biggest tells and biggest cast/travel times for lowest efficiency. That's why Scepter/Focus FA works to some extent, and any pve content.Ele's effectiveness is too gear & trait dependent and is about choices and trade offs, but in my opinion it is what makes it the most balanced profession to play with/against.

Most balance you can say that twice...only profession you have to trade sustain for dmg, I wish the same principle would be applied to other professions

I wished that too...

[Feanor.2358]

Such pvp tunnel vision. At least put that in the topic name.

[Jski.6180]

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

[apharma.3741]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

[Arheundel.6451]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

Fact is ele is not OP like other professions especially in wvw, but the incoming balance patch will place ele in a much better place, I am not expecting a meta build but at least great without requiring extreme sacrifices

[Jski.6180]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

[Jski.6180]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

Fact is ele is not OP like other professions especially in wvw, but the incoming balance patch will place ele in a much better place, I am not expecting a meta build but at least great without requiring extreme sacrifices

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

Fact is ele is not OP like other professions especially in wvw, but the incoming balance patch will place ele in a much better place, I am not expecting a meta build but at least great without requiring extreme sacrifices

But when is it happening there only eta on when they are going to update the updates.

[apharma.3741]

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

[Jski.6180]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

Its not about its dmg and numbers in effect its less to do with power creep and more to do with the ideal of the class its simply lacking all the tools to be a real dmg dealing class as well as lacking all the tools to being a healer. It was only an issues of time that the other classes dmg numbers would be normalized.

Ele lacks a lot to deal with players but its good in pve. To fix ele you must add in effects that ele dose not have right now and they tried to avoid giving it to ele and in doing so made ele into the worst class in wvw / spvp.

[apharma.3741]

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

Its not about its dmg and numbers in effect its less to do with power creep and more to do with the ideal of the class its simply lacking all the tools to be a real dmg dealing class as well as lacking all the tools to being a healer. It was only an issues of time that the other classes dmg numbers would be normalized.

Ele lacks a lot to deal with players but its good in pve. To fix ele you must add in effects that ele dose not have right now and they tried to avoid giving it to ele and in doing so made ele into the worst class in wvw / spvp.

Tempest is a great healer, lots of sustained healing (it's the best in PvE by a considerable mile) and certainly in the aura share build has decent damage mitigation while spreading high healing regen and protection to the entire team. Remember it was the dominant healer build since HoT and it wasn't until firebrand came out that it was replaced because firebrand not only cleanses as much, but heals as much, prevents so much damage via aegis AND gives out insanely strong boons like stab and resistance as well as the boons ele gave. Tempest doesn't measure up because firebrand has completely eclipsed all healer and support builds and scourge overloads all other options.

If firebrand was removed from the game for a week you would see a lot more people playing support tempest.

If you want to see what an ele can do sM_Seven streams a lot and you can watch his vods on twitch where he does PvP and WvW on core D/D ele as well as a near 0 cleanse lightning rod weaver. It's damage is fine when it lands the issue is landing it half the time and the damage on autos put onto the last part which has 3/4s cast.

[Jski.6180]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

Its not about its dmg and numbers in effect its less to do with power creep and more to do with the ideal of the class its simply lacking all the tools to be a real dmg dealing class as well as lacking all the tools to being a healer. It was only an issues of time that the other classes dmg numbers would be normalized.

Ele lacks a lot to deal with players but its good in pve. To fix ele you must add in effects that ele dose not have right now and they tried to avoid giving it to ele and in doing so made ele into the worst class in wvw / spvp.

Tempest is a great healer, lots of sustained healing (it's the best in PvE by a considerable mile) and certainly in the aura share build has decent damage mitigation while spreading high healing regen and protection to the entire team. Remember it was the dominant healer build since HoT and it wasn't until firebrand came out that it was replaced because firebrand not only cleanses as much, but heals as much, prevents so much damage via aegis AND gives out insanely strong boons like stab and resistance as well as the boons ele gave. Tempest doesn't measure up because firebrand has completely eclipsed all healer and support builds and scourge overloads all other options.

If firebrand was removed from the game for a week you would see a lot more people playing support tempest.

If you want to see what an ele can do sM_Seven streams a lot and you can watch his vods on twitch where he does PvP and WvW on core D/D ele as well as a near 0 cleanse lightning rod weaver. It's damage is fine when it lands the issue is landing it half the time and the damage on autos put onto the last part which has 3/4s cast.

It has ok heals scorge heals better and clears better as well as keep ppl alive better (dmg counter boon etc..) even fire brain dose better healing from there +33% healing effects. Pure healing dose not cut it if any thing its worst then barrier and boon support you simply cant heal the dead. Blocking is better as well as barrier when dmg -% any day and tempest just has pure phcial dmg -% nothing to do with condi and realy tempest dose not add much more protection when you can get all the protection from other classes build in as well as from ele who spaming to earth gives a large duration of it (the +7% dose not work for other ppl just for the tempest self protection effect).

The lack of real boons like aoe stab aegis barrier (not a boon i know) and with out condi convention its pointless to even run condi clears with out giving up a lot of healing effects. Tempest is so unbelievably behind in supporting effects in wvw its sicking.

[apharma.3741]

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

Its not about its dmg and numbers in effect its less to do with power creep and more to do with the ideal of the class its simply lacking all the tools to be a real dmg dealing class as well as lacking all the tools to being a healer. It was only an issues of time that the other classes dmg numbers would be normalized.

Ele lacks a lot to deal with players but its good in pve. To fix ele you must add in effects that ele dose not have right now and they tried to avoid giving it to ele and in doing so made ele into the worst class in wvw / spvp.

Tempest is a great healer, lots of sustained healing (it's the best in PvE by a considerable mile) and certainly in the aura share build has decent damage mitigation while spreading high healing regen and protection to the entire team. Remember it was the dominant healer build since HoT and it wasn't until firebrand came out that it was replaced because firebrand not only cleanses as much, but heals as much, prevents so much damage via aegis AND gives out insanely strong boons like stab and resistance as well as the boons ele gave. Tempest doesn't measure up because firebrand has completely eclipsed all healer and support builds and scourge overloads all other options.

If firebrand was removed from the game for a week you would see a lot more people playing support tempest.

If you want to see what an ele can do sM_Seven streams a lot and you can watch his vods on twitch where he does PvP and WvW on core D/D ele as well as a near 0 cleanse lightning rod weaver. It's damage is fine when it lands the issue is landing it half the time and the damage on autos put onto the last part which has 3/4s cast.

It has ok heals scorge heals better and clears better as well as keep ppl alive better (dmg counter boon etc..) even fire brain dose better healing from there +33% healing effects. Pure healing dose not cut it if any thing its worst then barrier and boon support you simply cant heal the dead. Blocking is better as well as barrier when dmg -% any day and tempest just has pure phcial dmg -% nothing to do with condi and realy tempest dose not add much more protection when you can get all the protection from other classes build in as well as from ele who spaming to earth gives a large duration of it (the +7% dose not work for other ppl just for the tempest self protection effect).

The lack of real boons like aoe stab aegis barrier (not a boon i know) and with out condi convention its pointless to even run condi clears with out giving up a lot of healing effects. Tempest is so unbelievably behind in supporting effects in wvw its sicking.

I know it's behind but as I say it's entirely because of the power creep of firebrand more than anything. I know scourge has some support but it's nothing compared to FB, FB support is so good I cannot imagine a better support class will ever come and it is easily several orders of magnitude better than every other support in the game. Even scourge isn't that much better than tempest, it has better offense but ele gets shocking aura and magnetic aura share which when timed right can completely turn fights just like scourge.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

Fact is ele is not OP like other professions especially in wvw, but the incoming balance patch will place ele in a much better place, I am not expecting a meta build but at least great without requiring extreme sacrifices

Ele will stay exactly where it was...cause it has nothing really valuable to offer for team...and it's not just my opinion.Because I'm sometimes to bored with gw 2 to play pvp so I watch other people do that...people that compete in monthly at's...and I had few opportunities to ask some questions.Considered what role's could sword/something build could have...it's far outclassed by everything cause it has nothing useful for team or visable pressure in team fight's.

Do druid will be nerfed hard? YEA! Some consider it won't hold in meta...and still will be better then even the most bunker'ish weaver spec's.Weaver can 1v1 and contest 1v2....druid will still do that only worse vs thief/mes +1...but druid can still:-rez reliably in 2v2-has stealth-better disengage and ways to reset the fight-actually burst heal teammate...in 2v2-it's amazing actually in 2v2-kill somebody in 1v1.and weaver...has non of these things...correction...it has ALMOST NO GROUP UTILITY besides heal that somehow doesn't work with rune's.

Dps sword builds? If by damage we want to get access to tournaments there are only holo/spellbraker on the way...I don't know about spellbraker...people at top end are mixed in this case...But holo is fine...no...better then ever was...cause Zan in response to upcoming patch made new meta build with even more damage that will completely ignore future changes and pukes every boon possible in the game.As i said spellbraker has very cloudy future...but some really are nervous about possible big comeback of rampage...

Strangely some people started talking about tempest...cause Firebrand has really bad times since meta moved from condi ...to power damage. Firebrand is constantly nerfed and even in it's prime it performed not really great against power damage (especially when s/d core thief happened and it's still fine after balance update) and that's why there are some talks to check if tempest can replace guard as scourge life support..cause tempest doesn't have problem with having -50% power damage reduction...a lot less condi builds to deal with (condi mirage)...And when I think about this: less condi meta->more power rev...and tempest/power rev duo was considered 2nd the strongest duo in HoT meta. So there are big questions about tempest and firebrand and will see some answers on monthly at's. Tempest might surprise us again...or not.

Oh and fresh weaver...it's still half potential build...with so many proc's like endure pain nerfed it might feel better...but killing people actually never was a problem of it. It was, is and after patch will be still slow at rotating on map...so it's basically still thief wannabe without steal and short bow mobility...and mirage is fine because top mesmer's are actually really happy about upcoming changes but Ben said that there are not final so will see...

Do weaver still playable? YesDo weaver player's will still be able to hold their own in legend? YesBut it's still be the same ,,uniquely good and balanced" half potential pvp experience.

I have no doubt that Karl&friends want for some reasons destroy weaver position in raids...at any cost...without even consideration of other game modes. That's why i don't consider anything good for us in upcoming future.

I really hate to think that we might have to wait for next expansion.

[Jski.6180]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:jack of all trades

I like what you had to say but you misunderstood Jski.6180; He said "Jake of all triads". What he means is a boss of an Asian gang somewhere like San Fran. And I agree, this is just laughable to think the ele could be a Jake! LUDICROUS! You think the ele is in cold dark rooms counting money and watching illicit gambling operations to increase his wealth? No, this can't be.

Only if but i do not think they would chose to play the ele class more then likely they would play scorges or the other classes that let you realty sit back and watch your wealth increase.

Any way this is about wvw talks about spvp and pve do not need to be in here and often are just use as detraction of the main points.

Ele is lacking in wvw pure power dmg is not enofe unless its a 20k one shot. With out unblockables condi effect boon contorl etc.. the ele class is always going to fall flat on the dmg dealing builds. With out strong boons like stab quickness and alacrity support ele always going to be out classed. With out condi conversion your never going to see ele pull off that anty condi builds (pure clears are simply not enofe any more). With out a high barrier and aggsive take 0 dmg from both condis and power dmg ele never going to be a true bruiser class. With out more then 2 condis dmg types or spamable soft cc ele never going to be a condi dmg class.

Ele is a jack of all trades of being any to do nothing very well. "Jake of all triads" would never touch a class like this as its the least effect class to play and get realty worth out of it in gw2.

I do agree that in the current state of the game all of the above is true however to say that I find the current state of the game more fun than previous states would be a huge lie. The problems you stated isn’t something wrong with ele and its elite specs it’s that everything else is so overturned that there’s no room for an ele to really shine anymore without putting in significant time investment and skill and even with that it performs less than the current best 2 classes at the role.

The big issue with ele cleansing power is that it’s entirely linked to cleansing through the regeneration boon and thus water trait line. I know someone will mention cleansing fire and ether renewel however cleansing fire has a very long cool down for its 3 condition cleanse and ether renewel has a long channel which is very easy to interrupt and deny not only the cleanse but the heal itself. In my opinion they should have made woven stride cleanse 1 condition on swiftness or super speed and that would have at least solved weavers problem, core ele would still need water but by not having the elite line you’re free to take water and a damage line.

Then there’s the damage, you get any other elite spec and pick their defensive line, class line and elite spec in marauder stats and they can expect big hits of 5-10k on a lot of skills and autos of about 3k, Weaver in the same spec will see its damage usually significantly lower. I know someone will mention weavers dual condition and power nature but at that point you need to then put points into power, precision, condition damage, ferocity but then also need vitality and possibly some toughness to not get instantly killed by a burst spec. It just doesn’t work and the vitality conversation trait won’t make up for going grieving either without getting a significant bump, even then the distribution of conditions needs addressing, I mean why put the 6s burn on the final hit of an auto chain that takes 1.5s to finish assuming someone stays in range long enough?

The problem with the clears for group is that clears alone is not good enofe for supporting self clears are not as bad but the reason why the eng buff getting both a clear on protection and a condi clear becomes a condi conversion is to make there support clear viable for a group in wvw.

Going full glass to get that 5k - 10k crit is something any class can do but ele must do this for a 1 sec cast time with a 1 sec travel time and on a projectile (i still do not get why fire balls from ele are easier to stop then arrow from a ranger).

Ele is in a truly sad state and i get the feeling that the ele dev dose not even play the class any more.

Though is that really an issue with ele or that everything else since PoF has eclipsed ele so completely? If it's the latter it's straight up power creep and haven't been enjoying the game since we had the creep of PoF even though mesmer has never been in a stronger position in WvW. I want to see where this skill split patch puts things, I know it will likely not be enough but the answer isn't to buff ele, it's to tone everything else down.

Its not about its dmg and numbers in effect its less to do with power creep and more to do with the ideal of the class its simply lacking all the tools to be a real dmg dealing class as well as lacking all the tools to being a healer. It was only an issues of time that the other classes dmg numbers would be normalized.

Ele lacks a lot to deal with players but its good in pve. To fix ele you must add in effects that ele dose not have right now and they tried to avoid giving it to ele and in doing so made ele into the worst class in wvw / spvp.

Tempest is a great healer, lots of sustained healing (it's the best in PvE by a considerable mile) and certainly in the aura share build has decent damage mitigation while spreading high healing regen and protection to the entire team. Remember it was the dominant healer build since HoT and it wasn't until firebrand came out that it was replaced because firebrand not only cleanses as much, but heals as much, prevents so much damage via aegis AND gives out insanely strong boons like stab and resistance as well as the boons ele gave. Tempest doesn't measure up because firebrand has completely eclipsed all healer and support builds and scourge overloads all other options.

If firebrand was removed from the game for a week you would see a lot more people playing support tempest.

If you want to see what an ele can do sM_Seven streams a lot and you can watch his vods on twitch where he does PvP and WvW on core D/D ele as well as a near 0 cleanse lightning rod weaver. It's damage is fine when it lands the issue is landing it half the time and the damage on autos put onto the last part which has 3/4s cast.

It has ok heals scorge heals better and clears better as well as keep ppl alive better (dmg counter boon etc..) even fire brain dose better healing from there +33% healing effects. Pure healing dose not cut it if any thing its worst then barrier and boon support you simply cant heal the dead. Blocking is better as well as barrier when dmg -% any day and tempest just has pure phcial dmg -% nothing to do with condi and realy tempest dose not add much more protection when you can get all the protection from other classes build in as well as from ele who spaming to earth gives a large duration of it (the +7% dose not work for other ppl just for the tempest self protection effect).

The lack of real boons like aoe stab aegis barrier (not a boon i know) and with out condi convention its pointless to even run condi clears with out giving up a lot of healing effects. Tempest is so unbelievably behind in supporting effects in wvw its sicking.

I know it's behind but as I say it's entirely because of the power creep of firebrand more than anything. I know scourge has some support but it's nothing compared to FB, FB support is so good I cannot imagine a better support class will ever come and it is easily several orders of magnitude better than every other support in the game. Even scourge isn't that much better than tempest, it has better offense but ele gets shocking aura and magnetic aura share which when timed right can completely turn fights just like scourge.

Sadly you cant stop most of the real dmg with magnetic auras other then other eles and shocking auras ranged is short with its cd makeing it all the worst for an effect. Aura are not helpful any more even things like forst aura is more of a danger to have as it gives ppl perma alacrity now that what realty ended ele as a viable class in wvw the changes to condi conversion to boon realty messed it all up. If any thing ele is more of a danger to have on your team due to its slow condi application and now how these condis most burning and chill now become some of the strongest boons in the game make any type of condi conversion a hard counter to the ele class over all.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Template:Condition_conversion_table

This list kills ele for any type of condi dmg or soft cc.

[Waisenpai.6028]

To improve ele one needs to improve damage in wvw or spvp and that can be very dangerous. Or you can buff arcane trait line (I mean fix it like it was before lol before hot or POF) that would be dangerous also since you won't need HOT or POF. You can buff fire but that make it to easy. People need to be able to kill eles and anet can't gut out the entire ele line so we are a hybrid. Ele is a HOT Spec its bunker and had power damage and condi cover. Anet almost never revert nerfs from the pass unless required for a new expansion.

The better idea is what will Anet bring for eles in expansion 3? Will we get sharks with fricking lasers on their head?

I suggest Spears it's fun and we already have that weapon and you can even raise market price on that precursor. It can act as a multi hit melee (med damage) and long range attacks with Big damage or Condi 25-30 CD on 4 or 5 skills.

Vote for spears on next expansion.... the game wont be rebalance on old builds and meta that were gut. Hot build for eles were never rebuffed, they were just.. LOOK POF BIG DAMAGE LOOK OVER HERE!!!!!! LOOK new sexy silky smooth bikini armor with diamonds and glitter particle effect!!!

[Bamm.6975]

@apharma.3741 said:

If you want to see what an ele can do sM_Seven streams a lot and you can watch his vods on twitch where he does PvP and WvW on core D/D ele as well as a near 0 cleanse lightning rod weaver. It's damage is fine when it lands the issue is landing it half the time and the damage on autos put onto the last part which has 3/4s cast.

I randomly saw some of this kids stream on twitch over the weekend. I was excited because he is a known D/D ele. He was in WvW when I tuned in but shortly after switched to sPvP. He was D/D core spec when he got in. He was utterly destroyed.

I was hoping to get some tips by watching and I did. Tip was that you cannot currently play D/D effectively in sPvP.