Kito is a traitor!/Scarab Plague Discussion [spoilers]

[Castigator.3470]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:It's never said who spread the rumor of the Commander being "Canach's crony", which is only ever mentioned by Archivist Rhadha.

And honestly, I could see that rumor spreading due to Canach's bets about the Commander, and could see a drunk Canach saying that the Commander's his crony, rather than ally or friend. Canach saying he has friends (as in actual friends and not simply contacts) seems a lot less likely than him saying he led Dragon's Watch.

Oh, Canach. At this point our snarky salad is either well on his way to become the richest person in the known world, or he's going to be duped into betting on the wrong horse and losing everything he made in the process. I'm not sure which result would be more hilarious. Though I suspect, that he's still an idealist and cares not about the money, but the risk taking.

I can see us using his snark to reveal Kito's hidden plan. Which is, unsurprisingly, to take down Joko, but slooooowly, as to not upset the balance of power game the Order of Shadows has been so obsessed with. Considering the Commander's habit of causing massive changes wherever he goes, it is at least somewhat understandable, that the Order might want to gently get the Commander out of Elona.There is also the possibility that the Order of Shadows has completely lost it and is now playing the powergame for its own sake, they became so addicted to powerbrokering, that they've lost sight of their original goal. Worse yet: A free Elona would mean there is no more purpose to the Order of Shadows. They need Joko as a foil, lest they become the villains of their own story.

[Michram.6853]

Yeah, I don't know what would be worst, even for Tyria sake, Joko dead or not?

His death may bring the same chaos to Elona as death of Mordremoth brought to Sylvari and the whole world.

The difference between Mordremoth and Joko is that Joko's strenght was almost never abated, even under the piles of stones he'd been still causing the fear in Elona. Mordremoth had also his weakness, as all the Elder Dragons, but Joko seems to not have any, even Balthazar could just trap him in the Mists, he couldn't or didn't even bother to kill him.

I really don't know how Elonians will survive without Joko, when you live in the constant fear, you get used to it, you take the fear as something normal. How will Elona be working if Joko dies, or whatever dead people do ( :D )?

They will finally get used to the freedom, but it will be a really slow process. I am sure the people will seek the peace among the Sunspears, but the death of Joko may also cause the war between the minor forces, lesser than Awakened's- for example Sunspears and the Order of Shadows.

Should we leave chasing after Joko and focus on Tyrian matters? Or light the igniter to set the conflict in Elona? Or kill Joko and hope hard that it won't cause any conflict?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Getting rid of Joko would be a net improvement to Tyria. The thing you have to be careful about however, is making sure that the people he rules over are READY for the time Joko is gone, else you run the risk of Elona descending into chaos.

While it hasn't been the major focus of the story, we have been slowly setting up Elona for this throughout events in the open world-Our raid on the Deadhouse, and the defeat of Warden Jabari.-Our raid on the Banestrand Garrison, and leading the people to overthrow Vizier Kasahn and Clanmarshal Geddi.-Summoning Junundu worms to attack Fort Huduh.-Killing the three high judges, Ejele, Sidan, and Kulul, who run Joko's awakening courts.-Helping unpoision the minds of Vabbi's youth, and helping them show defiance by painting all over Joko's statue.-Killing Archon Iberu.-Rebuilding the Sunspear Sanctuary in Vabbi, and bringing together the desert and Vabbi Sunspears there.-The large Sunspear raids on Palwadan, and the Morden Cresent Great Hall, which results i nthe deaths of many of Joko's top supports in the region.

[Michram.6853]

Yeah these are examples that Joko forces can be dealt with. But I want to remind you that Elonians arent as heroic as Tyrians- when Balthazar attacked their home, they didn't bother to defend their homes, families. They said they dont wanna face a god, but Tyrians wouldnt just escape and wait until a rogue god destroy everything to get what he wants.

If they couldnt break their belief that they CAN face a god, a fallen one, then I'd not be afraid of Elonian future if Joko dies. Or will they even stand against this wicked lich to break their chains up. I am not sure they have ANY courage.

Aurene is probably strong enough to kill Joko, and I think she is his 'weakness', but will his death solve Elona's problems? Because it will solve Tyria's, but at what cost?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Arden.7480 said:when Balthazar attacked their home, they didn't bother to defend their homes, families.Except that is blatantly untrue, as we see many in Elona resisting Balthazar, and his forged.

[Michram.6853]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Arden.7480 said:when Balthazar attacked their home, they didn't bother to defend their homes, families.Except that is blatantly untrue, as we see many in Elona resisting Balthazar, and his forged.

yeah, especially when their only defender- Vlast- was about to die by Balthazar's hands. Their courage was just overwhelming, that only 4 guys- Kas, Canach, Rytlock and the commander tried to defend somebody they'd never met before.

edit: And I didn't see ANY elonian warband to stand against Balthazar when it came up to the final battle in the Kodash Baazar. We can speculate that they fought on the other side where Kas, Canach and Rytlock were, but it's just a speculation that is not based on any proof.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Arden.7480" said:edit: And I didn't see ANY elonian warband to stand against Balthazar when it came up to the final battle in the Kodash Baazar. We can speculate that they fought on the other side where Kas, Canach and Rytlock were, but it's just a speculation that is not based on any proof.You seem to forget that the Awakened, literally, Elona's army, was the one holding off Balthazar's large horde of Forged, while you slapped down the god himself. Which was the whole story going of posing as Archon Iberu, and getting all the generals on your side.

Not to mention things like-The Cavaliers doing their best to try to protect many of the settlements in the Crystal Oasis region from various threats.-The people of Destiny's Gorge going so far as to use makeshift weapons to defend themselves from the Forged.-The Sunspears, and the entire "oasis" network, working to help people escape Joko's domain, and undermine his rule.-The Order of Shadows, who constantly work to undermine Joko.

The people of Elona no more or less defend, or don't defend, themselves then the people of Tyria do.

[Telwyn.1630]

@"Arden.7480" said:Since the trailer came out I've been thinking about Ghosts of Ascalon novel and I think they are going to use a similar scenario in ep 2.

First of all the theme of a new legendary reminds me of GoA- the Claw of Khan-Ur... Dougal, Ember, Gullik, Riona, Killeen and Kranxx were on the mission to bring the Claw of Khan-Ur back from Adelbern's tomb.

There is a second thing about this trailer that reminds me of the novel- chaining Ember, she didn't like it at all, she was ready to smite Riona and Dougal, but then she realized that she must make a right decision. Also looks like we are gonna do the same thing to Braham to make our plan work.

Third thing is that there was a traitor in GoA- Riona, I wonder if somebody will betray us in ep 2.

I really don't trust Kito. Do you want to know my reasons?

1) After we died because Balthazar killed us Kito said that he was watching us as we were dying! As Aurene was being captured! And he was just observing! And this: "Balthazar killed you. I watched from the shadows as you fell. We knew Balthazar was having you watched, but he struck before we could send a warning." The post office was too busy or what? I think he didn't even bother to send us any warning if he's been watching us, most likely when we were climbing on that hill. Because he knew the location where Balthazar was going to strike us.

2) In Daybreak he was annoyingly appearing at the docks to check what we are doing.

3) He lied to the Spearmarshal that we BOTH killed Balthazar, it sounded like there wasn't Canach, Kas or Rytlock and not even Aurene- only the Commander and Kito. I don't know why the Commander didn't react to this lie, maybe we were too confused after we were shanked by Amala's weapon.

Just look how misleaded the Spearmarshal was: Oh—the famous commander. Agent Kito told us tales of how the two of you killed Balthazar.

AND look AT THIS: Is it true you and Agent Kito also killed two Elder Dragons?

I don't trust him and his plan he speaks of in the trailer is going to bring a doom upon us. He's not a good guy and it proves that Kito and his Order seek only the glory, not the alliance between Tyria and Elona.

Though SHADOWS Fall...

What do you think?

Edits: clarifying things.

Maybe the Order whispers in elona has been comprised without knowing it?

[Michram.6853]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:edit: And I didn't see ANY elonian warband to stand against Balthazar when it came up to the final battle in the Kodash Baazar. We can speculate that they fought on the other side where Kas, Canach and Rytlock were, but it's just a speculation that is not based on any proof.You seem to forget that the Awakened, literally, Elona's army, was the one holding off Balthazar's large horde of Forged, while you slapped down the god himself. Which was the whole story going of posing as Archon Iberu, and getting all the generals on your side.

Not to mention things like-The Cavaliers doing their best to try to protect many of the settlements in the Crystal Oasis region from various threats.-The people of Destiny's Gorge going so far as to use makeshift weapons to defend themselves from the Forged.-The Sunspears, and the entire "oasis" network, working to help people escape Joko's domain, and undermine his rule.-The Order of Shadows, who constantly work to undermine Joko.

The people of Elona no more or less defend, or don't defend, themselves then the people of Tyria do.

I was talking about the final battle in Kodash Bazaar, and I wasn't trying to deny other organizations' deeds. Only the Awakened stood against the army of the Forged- in KODASH BAZAAR- the final, most important battle.

Sorry for this late response.

[perilisk.1874]

@"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:I think Joko sends in Bio Terrorists under the guise of political refugees then they can easily spread the disease.

I mean if any one can spread a disease you figure it would be a Lich which is basically a grandmaster Necromancer and if we know anything about Necros it's Epidemic.

Crap, they're trying to create an in-world reason to nerf Epidemic. "New regulations were passed in light of the Scarab Plague outbreak..."

[worlds biggest losers.4230]

Kito is really cool, and I hope he gets fleshed out more(maybe just because I play an Elonian Whispers member ;p ). Can't seem to get a handle on him. He sounds like he wants to make the Order of Shadows more influential and more powerful than they actually might be by tying himself to the Commander's victories. I hope he also has a more personal motive, doesn't matter to me if it's a good or evil one- long as it's interesting! Joko might be their endgame target, but they've been proven to help him before. It looks like there are some good people in the OoS (thinking of Kossan) but I'm not sure Kito is one of them. At best, he is probably a guy who would do whatever it takes to defeat Joko, no matter who he had to manipulate or sacrifice.Don't trust him after he followed the Commander under stealth onto Sayida's ship, but I guess since he saw the Commander die once already he's wary.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Arden.7480 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Arden.7480 said:edit: And I didn't see ANY elonian warband to stand against Balthazar when it came up to the final battle in the Kodash Baazar. We can speculate that they fought on the other side where Kas, Canach and Rytlock were, but it's just a speculation that is not based on any proof.You seem to forget that the Awakened, literally, Elona's army, was the one holding off Balthazar's large horde of Forged, while you slapped down the god himself. Which was the whole story going of posing as Archon Iberu, and getting all the generals on your side.

Not to mention things like-The Cavaliers doing their best to try to protect many of the settlements in the Crystal Oasis region from various threats.-The people of Destiny's Gorge going so far as to use makeshift weapons to defend themselves from the Forged.-The Sunspears, and the entire "oasis" network, working to help people escape Joko's domain, and undermine his rule.-The Order of Shadows, who constantly work to undermine Joko.

The people of Elona no more or less defend, or don't defend, themselves then the people of Tyria do.

I was talking about the final battle in Kodash Bazaar, and I wasn't trying to deny other organizations' deeds. Only the Awakened stood against the army of the Forged- in KODASH BAZAAR- the final, most important battle.

Sorry for this late response.

you forgot to mention the part where only Awakened army was actually INVITED to the whole party.

also I am quite sure that even if people of destiny's gorge, sunspear remnants and order of shadows were invited (assuming that somehow we could convince awakened to not jump onto them instantly) even then they'd not arrive to this battle, why? because there is too few of them to far away, and are preoccupied fighting forged at their own doorsteps.

and also as it was previously mentioned - awakened ARE Elona's Standing army at that point of the time. so if now you'd get information that a random army out of nowhere is wreckign havoc at your country's border, would you go out of your way to join efforts against them or would you like, let the army handle the situation?