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[PvP] Aftermath: Saved by the fixes, or we reached a new low in viability?


Ivantreil.3092
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@zoopop.5630 and I took a cursory look at scrapper today.

My opinion is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

His opinion is that it's viable, but hammer is not. He was focused on a rifle build. My opinion on that was... if you're using rifle, you might as well be holo anyway (with exception for your drunk engineer build, of course, but that's more of a novelty). You can theoretically burst pretty hard with blast gyro if it works properly, but honestly, it's too unreliable IMO. Even grenade kit is more reliable.

Wasn't even a point to trying core, lol. Those changes were virtually negligible.

Holo is roughly still as good as it was. The only difference is that we're more vulnerable to CC/ranged attacks. Our attacks do less damage, but so do everybody else's, so that's a bit of a moot point.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:@zoopop.5630 and I took a cursory look at scrapper today.

My opinion is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

His opinion is that it's viable, but hammer is not. He was focused on a rifle build. My opinion on that was... if you're using rifle, you might as well be holo anyway (with exception for your drunk engineer build, of course, but that's more of a novelty). You can theoretically burst pretty hard with blast gyro if it works properly, but honestly, it's too unreliable IMO. Even grenade kit is more reliable.

Wasn't even a point to trying core, lol. Those changes were virtually negligible.

Holo is roughly still as good as it was. The only difference is that we're more vulnerable to CC/ranged attacks. Our attacks do less damage, but so do everybody else's, so that's a bit of a moot point.

Yea, pretty much I mean.... the gyro are so poorly designed anyone with a brain that knows how to pvp would kit the gyro / get them either stuck or lose path finding for the target it was original aimed for. Like @Vagrant.7206 said scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

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@coglin.1496 said:

@"Lunateric.3708" said:

Barrier bug still a thing, it's just baffling. Who do we have to call so we get some sort of fix?

How it is baffling? Which line of code would you change to fix it?

We don't have access to the code, so how would we know? All we know is that this bug has persisted for at least 2 months now.

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@coglin.1496 said:

@"Lunateric.3708" said:

Barrier bug still a thing, it's just baffling. Who do we have to call so we get some sort of fix?

How it is baffling? Which line of code would you change to fix it?

If you introduce a bug with a skill rework you have to fix it asap or at least make users aware of what's happening and that there are people reproing/working on fixing it. It's pretty simple.

So far we got a very recent post from Irenio about investigating it... After a couple months I think.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Lunateric.3708" said:

Barrier bug still a thing, it's just baffling. Who do we have to call so we get some sort of fix?

How it is baffling? Which line of code would you change to fix it?

We don't have access to the code, so how would we know? All we know is that this bug has persisted for at least 2 months now.

You made my point for me. Thank you

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@coglin.1496 said:

@"Lunateric.3708" said:

Barrier bug still a thing, it's just baffling. Who do we have to call so we get some sort of fix?

How it is baffling? Which line of code would you change to fix it?

We don't have access to the code, so how would we know? All we know is that this bug has persisted for at least 2 months now.

You made my point for me. Thank you

you made no point though.

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@Lunateric.3708 said:

Barrier bug still a thing, it's just baffling. Who do we have to call so we get some sort of fix?

How it is baffling? Which line of code would you change to fix it?

We don't have access to the code, so how would we know? All we know is that this bug has persisted for at least 2 months now.

You made my point for me. Thank you

you made no point though.

Sure I did. To claim that a bugs solution should be solved while having literally zero knowledge of the subject matter of the resolution is a waste of time and in my opinion, not particularly rational.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:As much as I know, they managed to fix abrasive gift on scourge and scrapper's bug on adaptive armor seem to be the same type of bug. If they managed to fix one, the should be able to fix both.

not a programmer i see. similar bugs can have wildly different causes.

the fix to the function gyro was only the most common cause implying that this bug was actually multiple bugs with the same effect (in case you wanted an example)

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I'm still desperate in my attempts to find something that works besides Scrapper and Holo. I have spent the break this season back to my theorycrafting efforts on something different. I have tried mucking with various condition builds using bleeds, explosions. It simply doesn't work because a.) our coefficients/scaling suck which has a direct effect on us able to burst. b.) we have to throw all of our weight into offense (which is LOL) to kill our opponent without any defense. I don't see us in any better of a situation that we were in prior, I will say that the Scrapper is viable again only because the holo damage nerf diverts our attention to a different role; one of bunker/point turtle.

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I think scrapper is an enhancement support spec not a DPS spec.

Basically go hammer bulwark cleanse gyro and elixir gun stealth gyro and let your allies carry you while you clown fiesta with stuns super speeds and gyro support.

I think scrapper coming back as a DPS spec is long dead. You don't deal enough damage with hammer and instead should focus on assisting allies in combat.

Engineer excels in spvp and 5 man pvp as well as 1v1 but if you have a bad build or not playing your build properly you will be useless to your group.

Engineer for me ( anyways) is at it's most viable it's ever been since hot scrapper.

I will agree that 90% of the kits traits and utility skills are useless. Basically you have gyro for support or damage , rifle for DPS carry , hammer for survival and cc , and grande kit for damage.

I guess turrets can be good for farming materials. Also gadgets can be useful in niche situations.

Engineer feels good to me because my engineer has a purpose. He can scrapper for support or rifle grenade kit for raw damage.

I think 95% (just about all of them) all of the engineer builds suck right now. Scrapper can't DPS. Holosmith hits like a wet noodle. Inventions cleansings is only good for support scrapper. Condi engineer is dead. Flamethrower is a useless unviable weapon. Bomb kit LUL.

Engineer is viable but only has like 2 functional specs. Support scrapper cleanser and rifle maruader damage. Everything else just seems meh. Lots of unviable builds.

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