Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Vegeta.9670]

@"Sojar.1495" said:Funny... I use Taco and ArcDPS everytime I login. I wasn't banned. As do all of my guildies. None of them were banned.

The posts about this are pretty funny, because you're basically admitting, publicly, that you utilized an offshoot of ArcDPS that was used for hacking (teleportation, no-clip, enhanced speed, etc)

This whole "I was only using Taco/ArcDPS" is a bunch of bull. You hacked, and now you're banned. How sad. Maybe next time, don't hack.

I also use Taco and ArcDPS, and even LaunchBuddy, and ReShade. Not banned either.

[FyzE.3472]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

There were also cases of people wrongly banned, where anet lifted the suspension. Even if amongst these 1500 players there's a single person that is banned becuase of false positive report, that person deserves to get their account back.

How many of those 1583 accounts wrongly accused? And how many of those are just pretending to be innocent? I'm not saying it is impossible. But come on man, let's be real. I don't think the wrongly accused accounts would exceed 10-15%.Anyway, it is still a great day for the people who play fair :DInb4 "Your account have been suspended" lol.

Oh I suppose false positives may be a case for <50 accounts if not less. However, as I said, it's not about believing people on forums, it's about anet stating they don't accept appeals. Sounds like unacceptable behaviour in company-customer relationship. How else those wrongfully banned (if there are any) can get their accounts back if they can't appeal?

Sure. But if they have said "hey, we admit that we might have made a mistake, just contact the support" or some such, EVERYONE would immediately became innocent. And again, let's be real here, I don't think that they will just sit and watch the river of tears flow. They are probably investigating as we speak.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

There were also cases of people wrongly banned, where anet lifted the suspension. Even if amongst these 1500 players there's a single person that is banned becuase of false positive report, that person deserves to get their account back.

How many of those 1583 accounts wrongly accused? And how many of those are just pretending to be innocent? I'm not saying it is impossible. But come on man, let's be real. I don't think the wrongly accused accounts would exceed 10-15%.Anyway, it is still a great day for the people who play fair :DInb4 "Your account have been suspended" lol.

Oh I suppose false positives may be a case for <50 accounts if not less. However, as I said, it's not about believing people on forums, it's about anet stating they don't accept appeals. Sounds like unacceptable behaviour in company-customer relationship. How else those wrongfully banned (if there are any) can get their accounts back if they can't appeal?

Sure. But if they have said "hey, we admit that we might have made a mistake, just contact the support" or some such, EVERYONE would immediately became innocent. And again, let's be real here, I don't think that they will just sit and watch the river of tears flow. They are probably investigating as we speak.

Maybe, I don't know. What I'm afraid and what is regular case for their CS is that they gonna respond "We carefully investigated your case and with 100% certain we can say the suspension is justified and won't be lifted. Further communication about the subcject will be ignored". That's their first line copy pasted answer in such situations.

[Holykitten.3064]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

There were also cases of people wrongly banned, where anet lifted the suspension. Even if amongst these 1500 players there's a single person that is banned becuase of false positive report, that person deserves to get their account back.

How many of those 1583 accounts wrongly accused? And how many of those are just pretending to be innocent? I'm not saying it is impossible. But come on man, let's be real. I don't think the wrongly accused accounts would exceed 10-15%.Anyway, it is still a great day for the people who play fair :DInb4 "Your account have been suspended" lol.

Oh I suppose false positives may be a case for <50 accounts if not less. However, as I said, it's not about believing people on forums, it's about anet stating they don't accept appeals. Sounds like unacceptable behaviour in company-customer relationship. How else those wrongfully banned (if there are any) can get their accounts back if they can't appeal?

That depends, if Anet just ran a script yesterday, and banned the accounts which were flagged, you'd have a point.Someone noted that Anet modified the client, to send data back for monitoring purposes about 2 months ago. It's a radical statement to assume that those flags weren't investigated by human eyes before the ban-wave.

"The accounts in question will remain suspended for at least six months, and in the case of this investigation, we will not be accepting appeals about these account suspensions." We don't know how long that investigation ran for.

Something tells me Anet is pretty accurate with this ban-wave. There might be an outlier but I doubt the number is above 10 people in the 1500 that were banned.

[FOX.3582]

@MissSinfully.2478 said:

@FOX.3582 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:You'll find information about a series of account suspensions in

this thread

.

As someone who isn't suspended and doesn't use cheats or other stuff I will say this and I've said it before:Your company has the worst failure of a business management I've ever encountered in my life! You will see that if you take a look on how you manage your micro-transactions, the wishes of your player-base and now this. For years and years you have this shady, blear and unclear statement about third-party software. Players made dozens of topics on this subject and never have they had a clear and distinct answer. And all of a sudden, you suspend your customers?! You have lead them into this and you don't even recognize your own share in it. I know people used third party software into their own advantage, we all understand that. But if you guys were clear about it at the very beginning, you would never have to suspend over 1500 accounts. What a pitiful mess you guys create...

Oh sweetie. If you think Anet is the "worst failure of business management" then you're so very sheltered. The "collaboration" between OutSpark, OnsOnSoft and gamigo really takes the cake on bans, investigations, corrupt GMs, pay-to-win and honestly anything else.

Yeah alright, but I don't play games from those developers. And two wrongs don't make a right. I believe there is way worse out there, but currently the only MMO I'm playing is Guild Wars, so. =)

[FOX.3582]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

There were also cases of people wrongly banned, where anet lifted the suspension. Even if amongst these 1500 players there's a single person that is banned becuase of false positive report, that person deserves to get their account back.

How many of those 1583 accounts wrongly accused? And how many of those are just pretending to be innocent? I'm not saying it is impossible. But come on man, let's be real. I don't think the wrongly accused accounts would exceed 10-15%.Anyway, it is still a great day for the people who play fair :DInb4 "Your account have been suspended" lol.

Oh I suppose false positives may be a case for <50 accounts if not less. However, as I said, it's not about believing people on forums, it's about anet stating they don't accept appeals. Sounds like unacceptable behaviour in company-customer relationship. How else those wrongfully banned (if there are any) can get their accounts back if they can't appeal?

Exactly! Even when it's only one account that got falsely accused, it's really shit when you've done nothing wrong and you can't make any appeal. But hey,it's Arenanet we 're talking about here.

[Sojar.1495]

@FOX.3582 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:You'll find information about a series of account suspensions in

this thread

.

As someone who isn't suspended and doesn't use cheats or other stuff I will say this and I've said it before:Your company has the worst failure of a business management I've ever encountered in my life! You will see that if you take a look on how you manage your micro-transactions, the wishes of your player-base and now this. For years and years you have this shady, blear and unclear statement about third-party software. Players made dozens of topics on this subject and never have they had a clear and distinct answer. And all of a sudden, you suspend your customers?! You have lead them into this and you don't even recognize your own share in it. I know people used third party software into their own advantage, we all understand that. But if you guys were clear about it at the very beginning, you would never have to suspend over 1500 accounts. What a pitiful mess you guys create...

Oh I'm sorry. Were these not CLEAR enough for you?

Chris Cleary : "If someone wanted to put in the time to actually build real bossmods, that might be something that we could approve if they wanted to work with me."Chris Cleary: "I've gone ahead and taken a look at this (source code and traffic). In its current iteration, I see nothing here that violates the proper API usage policy. However users should be careful with the usage of the Web Browser, as both the storage of cache and cookie information is not secure and persists through sessions. Unlike most standard browsers, Awesomium (the browser that is being used), does not have more than basic protection against browser based web vulnerabilities. As with any 3rd party program, use at your own risk. ArenaNet cannot sign off usage of 3rd party programs, as projects often evolve beyond their current implementation and we cannot audit every iteration for fair usage. All that being said, some solid work here. Tip: You might want to consider throtttling down your match_details API call (1/5s would be sufficient rather than 2/1s)"Chris Cleary: " We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement."Chris Cleary: "I haven't seen anything that TACO is doing that would violate the rules set forward with the fair usage of the mumble API"Chris Cleary: "We will give our community plenty of time to make this adjustment before considering any action directly against tools or players that use them. Edit: Tool creators, if you are unsure if a feature you have created or want to create is in violation of these guidelines, you can contact me directly."Chris Cleary: "About 2-3 months ago I asked /u/deltaconnected to take down his previously created Build Templates addon to ArcDPS. At the time it was in violation of our rules to distribute it and it had key issues with it when it came to functionality and interaction with the game client. This release is the result of a multi-month coordination to get his Build Templates addon into a place where I can green-light it for release. Unlike DPS meters, Build Templates is a much more passive user interface addon and thus it could be individually allowed to release outside of the DPS meter Terms of Service rules restriction. If future developers are interested in working with me to create addons, please reach out to me and we can chat. I'm green-lighting this due to the developer's trustworthiness after months of interaction and willingness to add key restrictions and functionality changes to accommodate my push to keep addons away from becoming a "must have to win" situation (WvW restrictions were not outlined in his post, but they are there along with others). In their current state, /u/DeltaConnected 's Build templates are green-lit and safe to use by users (in terms of violating the Terms of Service). I've asked him to run any functionality changes by me before releasing, so hopefully we don't need to worry about things changing in the future in terms of "safe to use". This is officially unsupported, and ArenaNet will not be able to offer any support for this addon or issues that occur due to use of this addon."

I guess the HUNDREDS of Reddit and forum posts from Mr. Cleary weren't CLEAR enough (the irony of his last name and this subject is not lost on me either, lol).

Excuses, excuses. This thread is full of them. You. Got. What. You. Deserved.

[Theros.1390]

@"Dondarrion.2748" said:People on here should also not take everything these suspended players say for granted.

Anyone remember the "Suck at Love" duo, and how they professed their innocence so arrogantly, until it was revealed they actually were guilty and now we don't hear about them anymore.

Although, I still listen their musics, which are awesome nevetheless :p

I never used any third program, even ARC. Even if it's tolerated nowadays, I'm pretty sure it's gonna get players in troubles some day :)

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Tomas.6092" said:Anet could have gave an explanation in tickets individually, why exactly person got banned, for what kind of software or w/e they were using. I mean it's not hard, they found and banned 1.6k players, might as give them explanation why that happened. Since many people are saying that they were not fairly banned and haven't done anything wrong.

So they can alter the software to better avoid the bans next time after their 6 months are up? A decent programmer can come up with a lot of great code in 6 months. TRUST AND BELIEVE girlfriend! You are out of your mind if you think ANET should willing divulge information used to track and action these accounts.

Why should anyone trust and believe you and not someone saying that they got wrongfully banned?

[Ok I Did It.2854]

So much speculation in this topic,

The 3 addon's ( ARCdps, yolomouse, TACO ) that have been mentioned in this topic have been used for years by the community, and if Anet suddenly banned players for using them, im fairly sure it would result in a lot more than 1500-2000 accounts, id say that number could be 50x higher easily,

For TACO I have seen people posting on reddit links to there own markers etc, I personally wouldn't use any marker pack that Tekkit it not upload to there site, same goes for ARCdps, I believe the developer for this addon has worked with Anet or at least discussed what they agree to allow or not allow on the addon, Yolomouse is great for people who have visual problems, as this game is a visual mess at times, and changing the icon to something different can make it far better.

For those who have recently been banned in this topic who believe they are truly innocent, contact support and request it be reviewed, Gaile didn't post a list of names or accounts banned, just that x number had been banned, like anything this requires someone to type in a name, 1 wrong digit could be the difference between you and someone elses account, and Anet have had false positives in the past, and undone the bans.

[Happy Meal.2791]

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:As far as I'm aware, TacO is still allowed. I have no idea what the other program is. I strongly suspect it is another program that allows users to cheat in PvP . . . if all those threads are any indication.

Edit: 1:37 in the video above. Unless something has changed, it can't be TacO, but clarification would be awesome . . . just in case.

Edit #2: It's not TacO or Arc according to this. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8bst1a/game_accounts_suspended/

Just by watching that Video and from what i saw there are things in that which I think crosses the line and is an incredibly unfair advantage.

So if people received a ban because of TacO usage then I'm glad as TacO should have been labelled "illicit third-party software" long ago.

My thoughts are. If your unhappy with the ban because of TacO then you should have never touched it after seeing what it could do.

[Sojar.1495]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Tomas.6092" said:Anet could have gave an explanation in tickets individually, why exactly person got banned, for what kind of software or w/e they were using. I mean it's not hard, they found and banned 1.6k players, might as give them explanation why that happened. Since many people are saying that they were not fairly banned and haven't done anything wrong.

So they can alter the software to better avoid the bans next time after their 6 months are up? A decent programmer can come up with a lot of great code in 6 months. TRUST AND BELIEVE girlfriend! You are out of your mind if you think ANET should willing divulge information used to track and action these accounts.

Why should anyone trust and believe you and not someone saying that they got wrongfully banned?

You're basically making the argument "Should someone trust facts or an opinion?" If I say the sky is blue, and give you the facts to why it's blue, and then someone says "The sky is actually green," which argument is the valid one?

The facts are quite simple here my friend:

1. Memory writes or modifications are IMPLICITLY against the User Agreement/ToS
2. Anything that attempts to read from protected memory is against the ToS, and has been stated numerous times by devs, up to and including Chris Cleary.
3. Any addon or modification that directly reverse engineers the client in ANY way is against the ToS/UA
4. Any addon or mod that gathers data, actively, that is NOT readily available to the player is against the ToS. This is why TacO is permitted, because it does not ACTIVELY gather data, but rather, utilizes static data in an overlay. This is "dumb tech" as far as programming prowess is concerned.
5. Any addon or mod that removes input from a human player for more than 1 keystroke per key is expressly DISALLOWED - this excludes musical macros for playing in game musical instruments.

You're aware that these bans were the result of ANET looking for active memory writing or modification and/or protected memory reading. In fact, given the extraordinarily low number of bans versus use-case of mods or addons used throughout the community, I would assume (and this is an OPINION based on facts available) that these bans are based SOLELY on memory modification and/or writes, not even on reads.

So, I'm sorry you lack the educational background/have a layman's understanding of the basics of programming/computer science, but this is pretty cut and dry. The people claiming to have only been using ArcDPS or TacO and having been banned are outright LYING about the situation. ANET knows it, anyone with more than a passing interest in programming or CS knows it. You cannot sit here, with a layman's understanding of the situation, and give them any shred of credibility.

So, you shouldn't trust any one particular person or another on this subject. You should trust objective FACT; however, this is something you are clearly unwilling or lacking the understanding, at the moment, to do.

[Holykitten.3064]

@"Happy Meal.2791" said:So if people received a ban because of TacO usage then I'm glad as TacO should have been labelled "illicit third-party software" long ago.

My thoughts are. If your unhappy with the ban because of TacO then you should have never touched it after seeing what it could do.

TacO is the least likely of the 3 most blamed apps (TacO, Arc, Yolo) to have caused the ban. Why? It's an overlay which eliminates the need for 2 monitors, or a Tablet device to watch walkthrough/guides/timers to content. Saying TacO is the cause would be to admit people who dual-screen or use tablet/laptop devices for guides are at an advantage too and should also be banned (lol).A lot of these comments of users 'only using taco' are misleading.

Chris Cleary: "I haven't seen anything that TACO is doing that would violate the rules set forward with the fair usage of the mumble API"

A lot of these bans could also be people using 3rd party for other games that do not close them down before opening gw2. Anet detects the software and flags the account for hacks/botting, even if the player did not do so in gw2. But, imo, if you're gonna cheat in other games, you could well cheat in gw2 aswell, so I guess the threat is removed before executed.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Tomas.6092" said:Anet could have gave an explanation in tickets individually, why exactly person got banned, for what kind of software or w/e they were using. I mean it's not hard, they found and banned 1.6k players, might as give them explanation why that happened. Since many people are saying that they were not fairly banned and haven't done anything wrong.

So they can alter the software to better avoid the bans next time after their 6 months are up? A decent programmer can come up with a lot of great code in 6 months. TRUST AND BELIEVE girlfriend! You are out of your mind if you think ANET should willing divulge information used to track and action these accounts.

Why should anyone trust and believe you and not someone saying that they got wrongfully banned?

You're basically making the argument "Should someone trust facts or an opinion?" If I say the sky is blue, and give you the facts to why it's blue, and then someone says "The sky is actually green," which argument is the valid one?

The facts are quite simple here my friend:

1. Memory writes or modifications are IMPLICITLY against the User Agreement/ToS
2. Anything that attempts to read from protected memory is against the ToS, and has been stated numerous times by devs, up to and including Chris Cleary.
3. Any addon or modification that directly reverse engineers the client in ANY way is against the ToS/UA
4. Any addon or mod that gathers data, actively, that is NOT readily available to the player is against the ToS. This is why TacO is permitted, because it does not ACTIVELY gather data, but rather, utilizes static data in an overlay. This is "dumb tech" as far as programming prowess is concerned.
5. Any addon or mod that removes input from a human player for more than 1 keystroke per key is expressly DISALLOWED - this excludes musical macros for playing in game musical instruments.

You're aware that these bans were the result of ANET looking for active memory writing or modification and/or protected memory reading. In fact, given the extraordinarily low number of bans versus use-case of mods or addons used throughout the community, I would assume (and this is an OPINION based on facts available) that these bans are based SOLELY on memory modification and/or writes, not even on reads.

So, I'm sorry you lack the educational background/have a layman's understanding of the basics of programming/computer science, but this is pretty cut and dry. The people claiming to have only been using ArcDPS or TacO and having been banned are outright LYING about the situation. ANET knows it, anyone with more than a passing interest in programming or CS knows it. You cannot sit here, with a layman's understanding of the situation, and give them any shred of credibility.

So, you shouldn't trust any one particular person or another on this subject. You should trust objective FACT; however, this is something you are clearly unwilling or lacking the understanding, at the moment, to do.

I am arguing with you, because you act like authority. You are not, you are a regular player.

Player X says: I dont deserve a ban. Anet made a mistake.

Your response: Anet didn't do any mistake, you are guilty.

You have no base to post judgements about other players here. Players should appeal through CS if they feel Anet made a mistake. You have no way to see anet's internal reports to decide one way or another who is or who is not wrongfully banned. My only gripe is against Gaile's "no appeals" message.

[SidewayS.3789]

Does doing 1 single macro.created with the software from my gaming mouse (Razer) for a dodge-jump in SAB can give you a ban for 6 months? Well in my case, it is.

[Holykitten.3064]

@SidewayS.3789 said:Does doing 1 single macro.created with the software from my gaming mouse (Razer) for a dodge-jump in SAB can give you a ban for 6 months? Well in my case, it is.

1 key stroke, 1 action.Dodge jump, is 2 actions in very close succession.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@SidewayS.3789 said:Does doing 1 single macro.created with the software from my gaming mouse (Razer) for a dodge-jump in SAB can give you a ban for 6 months? Well in my case, it is.

Well, we can discuss if such lenght of your suspension is justified for kinda miniscule misbehaviour on your side obviously, but the fact is that you broke rules using such macro.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

My counter to that is: Tough.

If they want to put on a big show about banning accounts then they need to be prepared to deal with people asking for a second look. In many cases people put a lot of time and money into these accounts and to have even ONE be false is unacceptable...if you don't want to put in the effort to fix it which is appears they do not. I believe most of these, if not all, are probably legit but I also believe people should have the ability to say "Might wanna take another look." and have the CHANCE to clear their names and their accounts of this if A.net is wrong. They've been wrong before and only when a sufficient stink on Reddit was raised did some of these people in the past get their bans overturned. I've seen it happen enough there to know that it's naive to trust A.net 100% when it comes to such things.

[Sojar.1495]

@FOX.3582 said:

@Sojar.1495 said:

@FOX.3582 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:You'll find information about a series of account suspensions in

this thread

.

As someone who isn't suspended and doesn't use cheats or other stuff I will say this and I've said it before:Your company has the worst failure of a business management I've ever encountered in my life! You will see that if you take a look on how you manage your micro-transactions, the wishes of your player-base and now this. For years and years you have this shady, blear and unclear statement about third-party software. Players made dozens of topics on this subject and never have they had a clear and distinct answer. And all of a sudden, you suspend your customers?! You have lead them into this and you don't even recognize your own share in it. I know people used third party software into their own advantage, we all understand that. But if you guys were clear about it at the very beginning, you would never have to suspend over 1500 accounts. What a pitiful mess you guys create...

Oh I'm sorry. Were these not CLEAR enough for you?

Chris Cleary : "If someone wanted to put in the time to actually build real bossmods, that might be something that we could approve if they wanted to work with me."Chris Cleary: "I've gone ahead and taken a look at this (source code and traffic). In its current iteration, I see nothing here that violates the proper API usage policy. However users should be careful with the usage of the Web Browser, as both the storage of cache and cookie information is not secure and persists through sessions. Unlike most standard browsers, Awesomium (the browser that is being used), does not have more than basic protection against browser based web vulnerabilities. As with any 3rd party program, use at your own risk. ArenaNet cannot sign off usage of 3rd party programs, as projects often evolve beyond their current implementation and we cannot audit every iteration for fair usage. All that being said, some solid work here. Tip: You might want to consider throtttling down your match_details API call (1/5s would be sufficient rather than 2/1s)"Chris Cleary: " We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement."Chris Cleary: "I haven't seen anything that TACO is doing that would violate the rules set forward with the fair usage of the mumble API"Chris Cleary: "We will give our community plenty of time to make this adjustment before considering any action directly against tools or players that use them. Edit: Tool creators, if you are unsure if a feature you have created or want to create is in violation of these guidelines, you can contact me directly."Chris Cleary: "About 2-3 months ago I asked /u/deltaconnected to take down his previously created Build Templates addon to ArcDPS. At the time it was in violation of our rules to distribute it and it had key issues with it when it came to functionality and interaction with the game client. This release is the result of a multi-month coordination to get his Build Templates addon into a place where I can green-light it for release. Unlike DPS meters, Build Templates is a much more passive user interface addon and thus it could be individually allowed to release outside of the DPS meter Terms of Service rules restriction. If future developers are interested in working with me to create addons, please reach out to me and we can chat. I'm green-lighting this due to the developer's trustworthiness after months of interaction and willingness to add key restrictions and functionality changes to accommodate my push to keep addons away from becoming a "must have to win" situation (WvW restrictions were not outlined in his post, but they are there along with others). In their current state, /u/DeltaConnected 's Build templates are green-lit and safe to use by users (in terms of violating the Terms of Service). I've asked him to run any functionality changes by me before releasing, so hopefully we don't need to worry about things changing in the future in terms of "safe to use". This is officially unsupported, and ArenaNet will not be able to offer any support for this addon or issues that occur due to use of this addon."

I guess the HUNDREDS of Reddit and forum posts from Mr. Cleary weren't CLEAR enough (the irony of his last name and this subject is not lost on me either, lol).

Excuses, excuses. This thread is full of them. You. Got. What. You. Deserved.

Again, I am not banned. And if you find those statements clear and distinct, you are quite dense. But since you already had trouble to read my first sentence, I think it's a giant waste of time to point out and explain the enormous amount of contradictions that are written within those posts. All I see is a disgruntled player who doesn't like people to use stuff like dps-meters just because it has affected his/her ability to leech from pro/veteran people who needed to carry you through content because they DID use stuff to improve their skill. You should work at Arenanet, they need people like you there. =)

Allow me to reply, in kind, good sir!

1. I'm sorry you lack fundamental understanding of basic computer science, and thus fail to grasp what Mr. Cleary was articulating. To anyone with more than layman's understanding or a passing fancy of programming, what he said is QUITE clear. You lack of understanding gives me pause to grant you ANY credibility, or to post a meaningful reply to your ad hominem attack on me, but then again... here we are, aren't we?
2. Again, with the ad hominem attacks.... Let's address them, just for the sake of the fact that, at this point, it's all you've got to defend yourself from QUOTES from the developer of the game in question and from someone with a fair amount of knowledge of computer science, shall we?
   • You suggest I'm against DPS meters - I never stated this. Quite the contrary... I am fully in favor of them, provided they comply with the rules set forth by ANET. Mr. Cleary has offered to work with a developer, should they be in a gray area (and those gray areas are actually few and far between when you get down the heart of it)
   • You suggest that I am a leech, without having ever encountered me in the game, knowing nothing about my account, etc. This is rude, first off, and more importantly, is completely uncessary to the discussion at hand.
   • Moreover, you somehow suggest that I am leeching off pro/veteran players to facilitate my experience in playing Guild Wars 2. Well, considering I covered part of this in my latter retort with regards to you accusation of me being a "leech", let me just add that you are quite incorrect. That's all I am going to give you with regards to obliging such a baseless, childish statement with a reply. Knock it off.
   • If by "use stuff to improve their skill" you mean "Hack the game utilizing game breaking functionality like teleportion, speed increases and no-clip," then I would fault you on the former bit of logic there that said people "carr[ied] [me]" through the game, as I would NEVER allow a player utilizing these tools to do ANYTHING for me, as it is reprehensible behavior that is deserving of nothing short of permanent account termination, let alone the paultry 6 month ban ANET has issued to these deviants.
   • As for your comment about working for ArenaNet - while that's a flattering suggesting, I'm quite happy in my current career; however, I do appreciate the sentiment. :+1:

[FyzE.3472]

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

My counter to that is: Tough.

If they want to put on a big show about banning accounts then they need to be prepared to deal with people asking for a second look. In many cases people put a lot of time and money into these accounts and to have even ONE be false is unacceptable...if you don't want to put in the effort to fix it which is appears they do not. I believe most of these, if not all, are probably legit but I also believe people should have the ability to say "Might wanna take another look." and have the CHANCE to clear their names and their accounts of this if A.net is wrong. They've been wrong before and only when a sufficient stink on Reddit was raised did some of these people get their bans overturned.

That or just ban the freakin' cheaters lol. I don't care if it takes a few non-cheaters with them. Heck, let it be my account for all I care. My personal experience < Everyone else's experience. Oh and there's also terms of use where the devs, can, basically, do anything they see fit. You've accepted to that. Just a reminder ;)

[SidewayS.3789]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@SidewayS.3789 said:Does doing 1 single macro.created with the software from my gaming mouse (Razer) for a dodge-jump in SAB can give you a ban for 6 months? Well in my case, it is.

Well, we can discuss if such lenght of your suspension is justified for kinda miniscule misbehaviour on your side obviously, but the fact is that you broke rules using such macro.

Yeah, i'm aware that i was banned for 6 months for double jumping macro. And i played only for like 3 days, because i was tooo angry for dying again and again in tribulation. I'm guilty but i didn't use bot/real trading money or something big like this, to be banned for 6 months.

[FyzE.3472]

Just checked. Not banned. Though never used any 3d party program EVER. That must mean something , right?

[Sojar.1495]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Tomas.6092" said:Anet could have gave an explanation in tickets individually, why exactly person got banned, for what kind of software or w/e they were using. I mean it's not hard, they found and banned 1.6k players, might as give them explanation why that happened. Since many people are saying that they were not fairly banned and haven't done anything wrong.

So they can alter the software to better avoid the bans next time after their 6 months are up? A decent programmer can come up with a lot of great code in 6 months. TRUST AND BELIEVE girlfriend! You are out of your mind if you think ANET should willing divulge information used to track and action these accounts.

Why should anyone trust and believe you and not someone saying that they got wrongfully banned?

You're basically making the argument "Should someone trust facts or an opinion?" If I say the sky is blue, and give you the facts to why it's blue, and then someone says "The sky is actually green," which argument is the valid one?

The facts are quite simple here my friend:

1. Memory writes or modifications are IMPLICITLY against the User Agreement/ToS
2. Anything that attempts to read from protected memory is against the ToS, and has been stated numerous times by devs, up to and including Chris Cleary.
3. Any addon or modification that directly reverse engineers the client in ANY way is against the ToS/UA
4. Any addon or mod that gathers data, actively, that is NOT readily available to the player is against the ToS. This is why TacO is permitted, because it does not ACTIVELY gather data, but rather, utilizes static data in an overlay. This is "dumb tech" as far as programming prowess is concerned.
5. Any addon or mod that removes input from a human player for more than 1 keystroke per key is expressly DISALLOWED - this excludes musical macros for playing in game musical instruments.

You're aware that these bans were the result of ANET looking for active memory writing or modification and/or protected memory reading. In fact, given the extraordinarily low number of bans versus use-case of mods or addons used throughout the community, I would assume (and this is an OPINION based on facts available) that these bans are based SOLELY on memory modification and/or writes, not even on reads.

So, I'm sorry you lack the educational background/have a layman's understanding of the basics of programming/computer science, but this is pretty cut and dry. The people claiming to have only been using ArcDPS or TacO and having been banned are outright LYING about the situation. ANET knows it, anyone with more than a passing interest in programming or CS knows it. You cannot sit here, with a layman's understanding of the situation, and give them any shred of credibility.

So, you shouldn't trust any one particular person or another on this subject. You should trust objective FACT; however, this is something you are clearly unwilling or lacking the understanding, at the moment, to do.

I am arguing with you, because you act like authority. You are not, you are a regular player.

Player X says: I dont deserve a ban. Anet made a mistake.

Your response: Anet didn't do any mistake, you are guilty.

You have no base to post judgments about other players here. Players should appeal through CS if they feel Anet made a mistake. You have no way to see anet's internal reports to decide one way or another who is or who is not wrongfully banned. My only gripe is against Gaile's "no appeals" message.

I am a regular player who interacts with code on a daily basis, and has a fundamental understanding of what ANET has actioned these accounts for. It's not rocket science to figure out how they found the accounts in question or what they were up to. In fact, it's computer science!

Do you realistically believe that ANET just through together some rough heurstics to find "suspicious" addons, and somehow, some way, the code for just a few people's addons worked differently from everyone else's? Oh please. Code is code is code. It works the same way, at this level of sophistication... An addon that has had a new fork created is a an entirely different story... if a player chooses to use a non "official" fork of an addon, that is their CHOICE, and they will be actioned if that choice was a poor one.

Ignorance is not an excuse. Period.

So, again... I am sorry you aren't seeing what has actually occurred here. It's extraordinarily obvious. These accounts were actioned due to a very reliable detection method for malicious code that was either reading protected memory, writing to active memory or writing to reserved memory space and using injection at some stage. It's extremely simple to interpret what ANET did, and how they did it, with a simple understanding of former posts from Mr. Cleary on the matter and the wording of their ToS/UA.

These players are 100% guilty. That's the end of this tale.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:No appeals for anyone A.net? Really? You've been wrong before. Why do people hit by this have no option to have their situation looked at?

Also, there have been a lot of cases of people claiming "well, I have not done anything wrong" on which devs answered "well, u've been using x exlpoit/3d party program for x hours" sooo yeah. I would rather trust the devs. Also there have been literally videos made on youtube, saying "me and my wife are innocent!" and after devs explaining what they have done, those same videos were just removed by that same couple. Strange right?

My counter to that is: Tough.

If they want to put on a big show about banning accounts then they need to be prepared to deal with people asking for a second look. In many cases people put a lot of time and money into these accounts and to have even ONE be false is unacceptable...if you don't want to put in the effort to fix it which is appears they do not. I believe most of these, if not all, are probably legit but I also believe people should have the ability to say "Might wanna take another look." and have the CHANCE to clear their names and their accounts of this if A.net is wrong. They've been wrong before and only when a sufficient stink on Reddit was raised did some of these people get their bans overturned.

That or just ban the freakin' cheaters lol. I don't care if it takes a few non-cheaters with them.

That's bizarre on your side to say it. This is anticustomer approach and if we allow companies to behave like this, we're going to hurt ourselves. There is no excuse to ban innocent people, especially if they invested money in the game. This would probably be made into legal case against Anet if they didnt care about banning innocent accounts.

[Holykitten.3064]

Humble post is humble.

If I only enjoyed the PvP/WvW side of gw2, I'd have quit years ago because of hackers and botters too.