Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Vulcaruss.9567]

Oh thats good to know Gaile, the fact I still had my Cheat Engine Running from when I was playing Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 on Offline mode. The Fact I still had it up even though it was in no way synchronized to or used to effect GW2 in any way possible makes me one hell of a false positive, GG Anet, next time make your little spy program actually check to see if said programs are actually affecting the game please?

I remember trying out my steam controller every time I pressed F3 I would hear a Beep... I thought it was some new setting added the the controller, it stumped me for an hour or so until I realized I could check sound mixer to see what was actually making the sounds source. I come to find it's a keybind on cheat engine making the sound and not steam or GW2, So I immediately closed it and laughed at my stupidity. But now you guys and your spying have taken a background program out of context and lumped me in with people who most likely deserved this all cause your little Spy.exe couldn't tell the difference from it running alone, to when it actually affect the game! Ace Programing at its best. /Golf Clap.

[usnedward.9023]

You people understand that these hacks and cheats involve dll files in the GW2 directory. IF ANET wants to see what is loading when the game loads.... BAM you're busted. Simple as that. I think this thread is getting hilarious with the whole "spyware" thing since:

1. My antivirus will detect it because it is proactive
2. More than likely it is part of ANETs software to which you agreed to install and use and you violated the TOS (like I did) and got caught
3. This has NOTHING to do with the addons UNLESS they were not sanctioned with an API key
4. The extreme punishment (not so extreme really) is proof in the pudding that there was activities beyond the TOS agreement that got you (and me) banned
5. The fact that ANET WILL NOT be entertaining appeals for these accounts is even MORE proof you cheated

Why is so hard to accept that? Because you poured many hours in the game, cash and so forth? Chance you took.

YOU = anyone who says they did not do anything and got banned. BTW "here look at my computer" does nothing with delete and empty trash....

[Jerks.3172]

The fact they banning people without know and just going by "guessing" its being used on GW2 is just absurd.Hackers have been ruining PVP/WvW instead of investigating the players individually Anet does the lazy way and try to get a broken system to "justify" their actions while banning innocent players in the process. I'm pretty sure Cheat Engine is a pretty well known and people usually only use it for Single players MMO's.

Wait... so they should investigate thousands of reports of botting and cheating individually?

You do understand that autonation in the ongoing war against cheaters and botters is 100% necessary right? Even if they came up with the sheer amount of manpower to INDIVIDUALLY track and monitor these cheaters, by the time they banned 10% of them, said cheaters and bot creators would EASILY find workarounds to the methods.

wouldnotwork

Hey, It's better than banning innocent players and trying to get the community on your side and back peddling by deleting tweets and such all while losing players.How often do you think they ban hackers anyways? PVP and WvW Been plagued with balatant hackers yet ANET is just sitting and looking for cheat engines on your computer even thought it had nothing to do with GW2 and banning off that.

[Ashen.2907]

@MashMash.1645 said:

@starhunter.6015 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@"Sojar.1495" said:You then cite "well they might have been running them consistently , at the same time they're playing GW2, over the course of multiple weeks and gameplay hours... but were they really cheating?!?"

If it barks like a dog, walks like a dog, bites like a dog, eats like a dog, looks like a dog, it's clearly a honey badger (your logic).

As I mentioned earlier, I play some single-player games, open GW2 to do dailies and some fractals, and then return to those games. Why should I close Cheat Engine if I'm going to open it again in an hour?

So you where banned fairly. enough said.

No, no, They weren't using it for GW2 though. It was just 'on their PC"

That's like saying, "You own gun. Therefore all recent local shootings are your fault".

That's nuts. NOW, if they have evidence that it was USED in GW2, then sure, ban away ANet.

This, but more.

Its like sneaking into someone's home, covertly searching it to determine that they own a gun, and then punishing them for any gun crimes in the area.

This is morally obscene.

I have not been banned or otherwise actioned. I dont know anyone who has been. Even so I am appalled.

The couple thousand banned, at worst, cheated at a video game. Anet essentially broke into my, and tens of thousands of other players' private property in order to spy on us, with who knows what consequences for our security. The mere fact that Anet considers violating tens of thousands of customers' privacy and trust to be justified, under any circumstance says plenty about them as a company and more.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

As I mentioned earlier, I play some single-player games, open GW2 to do dailies and some fractals, and then return to those games. Why should I close Cheat Engine if I'm going to open it again in an hour?

Because it stops you from being suspended in Guild Wars 2?

@"Sojar.1495" said:Seems like you've made a serious error in judgement then. If you're using a program that is literally has the word "cheat" in its name, while playing an MMO... what did you expect to happen?

This. I mean . . . seriously? This is a question? How is Guild Wars supposed to know which game you're using it for? All they know if you're running a cheat program while playing their game. I'm all for cheating in single player games, but definitely not in an MMO or anything close to it. And I definitely wouldn't be running one while playing any of those mentioned earlier.

That's such a no-brainer.

[Vault Girl.6792]

I personally don't see any problems with Anet collecting my data (everyone does it anyway), I don't have much to hide, and I don't think it violates my privacy a lot. But the rules do not mention that running certain programs (that do not necessarily interact with the game) is forbidden. There has been no warning either. So a lot of banned people did not violate any rules.Well, if someone is running "GW2MHRexe", they are most likely cheating in GW2. But Cheat Engine was not designed to cheat in GW2 exclusively.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

@"usnedward.9023" said:You people understand that these hacks and cheats involve dll files in the GW2 directory. IF ANET wants to see what is loading when the game loads.... BAM you're busted. Simple as that. I think this thread is getting hilarious with the whole "spyware" thing since:

1. My antivirus will detect it because it is proactive
2. More than likely it is part of ANETs software to which you agreed to install and use and you violated the TOS (like I did) and got caught
3. This has NOTHING to do with the addons UNLESS they were not sanctioned with an API key
4. The extreme punishment (not so extreme really) is proof in the pudding that there was activities beyond the TOS agreement that got you (and me) banned
5. The fact that ANET WILL NOT be entertaining appeals for these accounts is even MORE proof you cheated

Why is so hard to accept that? Because you poured many hours in the game, cash and so forth? Chance you took.

YOU = anyone who says they did not do anything and got banned. BTW "here look at my computer" does nothing with delete and empty trash....

Oh look another guy who's saying I'm lying and that I deserve the punishment all cause of a program I left active on my computer and didn't think would be a problem cause it wasn't synchronized to the game just sitting there... doing nothing. I stand by my story usnedward.9023 I have nothing to gain or lose by lying at this point. Anet will probably just ignore all of this, keep a stern stance and say "screw you we're keeping this in place just cause." ... The Gall you have man.

[TexZero.7910]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:I personally don't see any problems with Anet collecting my data (everyone does it anyway), I don't have much to hide, and I don't think it violates my privacy a lot.

It doesn't violate your privacy at all.

People using this phrase are literally grasping at straws as they gave Anet consent to monitor them at any time Anet should deem fit to.

[Vault Girl.6792]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Because it stops you from being suspended in Guild Wars 2?

How should I know that it might lead to being suspended? Running such programs might look suspicious, but it's not against the rules, if it's not used to read/modify anything in GW2.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Because it stops you from being suspended in Guild Wars 2?

How should I know that it might lead to being suspended? Running such programs might look suspicious, but it's not against the rules, if it's not used to read/modify anything in GW2.

Again . . . how are they supposed to know? All they know is you're running a cheat program while their game is running too. Again, common sense would tell us not to run any cheat program while playing an MMO. My apologies you fail to see that, but again . . . it seems like a HUGE no-brainer to me.

Again, sorry, but that's all on you.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@"Vault Girl.6792" said:I expected Anet to announce that they are monitoring processes, and that running such programs in the background can lead to ban."We're going to be doing a banwave soon, just giving you a heads up! Close out CheatEngine and [insert hacks here]!"

Come on now. Even assuming your story is true, is it a ritual you have to have CheatEngine running while you use it on something else? While GW2 is running? Consistently? They were monitoring for these things for a couple months. That's just poor judgment. Or your cheating.

Either way, this is the end result and any thinking person is going to have trouble offering up any sympathy for your plight. Just own it. It's not permanent.

[artemis.6781]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:I personally don't see any problems with Anet collecting my data (everyone does it anyway), I don't have much to hide, and I don't think it violates my privacy a lot.

It doesn't violate your privacy at all.

People using this phrase are literally grasping at straws as they gave Anet consent to monitor them at any time Anet should deem fit to.

Indeed. That checkbox in the ToS is there for a reason.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Because it stops you from being suspended in Guild Wars 2?

How should I know that it might lead to being suspended? Running such programs might look suspicious, but it's not against the rules, if it's not used to read/modify anything in GW2.

Again . . . how are they supposed to know? All they know is you're running a cheat program while their game is running too. Again, common sense would tell us not to run

any

cheat program while playing an MMO. My apologies you fail to see that, but again . . . it seems like a HUGE no-brainer to me.

Again, sorry, but that's all on you.

Doing their due dilligence and making sure the program was used in their game would be a good start. Assuming something based on appearances is a dangerous road to go down.

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:I expected Anet to announce that they are monitoring processes, and that running such programs in the background can lead to ban."We're going to be doing a banwave soon, just giving you a heads up! Close out CheatEngine and [insert hacks here]!"

Come on now. Even assuming your story is true, is it a ritual you have to have CheatEngine running while you use it on something else? While GW2 is running? Consistently? They were monitoring for these things for a couple months. That's just poor judgment. Or your cheating.

Either way, this is the end result and any thinking person is going to have trouble offering up any sympathy for your plight. Just own it. It's not permanent.

Multitasking in other games while waiting on Meta Event timers or queues isn't unheard of and it's actually quite common. Do you think people stare at a countdown timer the entire time they're standing around waiting on things in this game? It's not a stretch to assume if you weren't using something to effect Guild Wars 2 then you shouldn't have to worry about being banned. A.net assuming they have jurisdiction over everyone's PC beyond their own game is pretty troubling.

My final point is this: Unless A.net has definitive proof that users were using these programs IN THEIR GAME then they shouldn't ban people based on how something might look. It's dangerous and negligent. If they do have such proof? More power to them and good job.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Jinks.2057" said:Well over on reddit a user has figured out that Anet installed spyware in an update on 3/6/18 then removed it on 3/27/18. This spyware pretty much looked at EVERY process you had running then sent it back to Anet servers.

So if you have software they deem bad while playing GW2 boom suspended.

This is a HUGE invasion of privacy and we consumers need an IMMEDIATE answer in light of the recent Facebook scandal.

My personal information was breached and the trust I have for Anet has been destroyed.

I'm not posting the link to thread and I'm sure I'll get banned off these forums for this.....but this needs to be said

Not even remotely an invasion of privacy.You agreed to it the moment you created an account. SOURCE (

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/arenanet-privacy-policy/

see. Non-personal Information | also see

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Section 7D)

Don't like it ?

Submit a request to have your account deleted.

Ignorance of the terms, is not a valid complaint or criticism once you have been caught with your pants down.

Was going to say the same thing. This is standard in nearly every single TOS for almost every piece of software out there, particularly games.

This is how hacking monitoring is done and how a lot of the activity is caught.

As someone who has done game administration before:

READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE AND PRIVACY POLICY

All that legal jargon is there to protect the company from doing virtually anything they want so long as you're signed up. It's your legal responsibility to watch your security and activity!

As for people getting caught elsewhere: TOO BAD.

You agreed to the aforementioned policy being told that ANet can monitor literally everything about the state of your machine at any time with or without reason. You elected to cheat in other services likely with the same clauses in their terms of service. You agreed that ANet has the right to terminate your account for literally any reason or lack thereof, including speculation.

It doesn't matter if you cheated or not in their game. It matters you cheated and acted in a way deemed unfit by them in general by using a piece of software they forbid in any context.

If you do not want to run the risk of being absolutely royally screwed in the real world, including wasting time and money like in these cases, you read everything you sign. If you do not like the terms, do not agree to them. Otherwise, deal with the consequences. ANet could literally ban people for having cheated on a math test in seventh grade claiming that they do not want that kind of player, and be completely justified legally and ethically.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

Doing their due dilligence and making sure the program was used in their game would be a good start. Assuming something based on appearances is a dangerous road to go down.

In other words, you want the company to be smarter about your cheating than you were. Sorry, but that's not going to fly in my book. Like CET said earlier, "Own it." This one's all on those not swift enough to turn off their cheat programs while playing Guild Wars 2.

It's harsh, but you're not getting any sympathy here.

[Vault Girl.6792]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Again . . . how are they supposed to know? All they know is you're running a cheat program while their game is running too. Again, common sense would tell us not to run any cheat program while playing an MMO. My apologies you fail to see that, but again . . . it seems like a HUGE no-brainer to me.

Again, sorry, but that's all on you.

Okay, it was stupid to not think of it, and I'll be more careful in the future. But, as you said, it's all they know. They don't have any evidences of me using this program for cheating in GW2, because I did not do that. There are many ways to detect cheaters, but this is definitely not a good one.

[Twoodi.5849]

No they are asking ANET to do their job, we already know they have multiple tools to detect cheaters and they already acknowledged that cheat engine isn't inherently bad and has legitimate uses.

Banning users because they had cheat engine open for a few hours + without doing any other checks is disgraceful no matter which way you look at it.

Plus if they announced that they were going to start suspending accounts for having cheat engine running at the same time, legitimate users like myself would've uninstalled it and the hackers would've stopped or been caught. It would've had the exact same effect except this time innocent people are not banned without warning.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

Doing their due dilligence and making sure the program was used in their game would be a good start. Assuming something based on appearances is a dangerous road to go down.

In other words, you want the company to be smarter about your cheating than you were. Sorry, but that's not going to fly in my book. Like CET said earlier, "Own it." This one's all on those not swift enough to turn off their cheat programs while playing Guild Wars 2.

It's harsh, but you're not getting any sympathy here.

I do hope the "you" here was used in a general sense because I wasn't caught up in these bans. The fact that people like you exist that seem to think these companies are infallible and can do no wrong is arguably more troubling than what they seem to be doing here. The specific "Cheat" Program I'm talking about will not do ANYTHING to GW2 unless you explicitly tell it to so having it running for something else completely unrelated should have ZERO bearing on your status in Guild Wars 2. That is the point of all this and honestly I feel like I'm repeating myself to people that either don't want to understand or are being deliberately obtuse in order to appear holier-than-thou.

I've said my piece multiple times, either agree or don't that's up to you but I'm done here frankly. I just hope A.net takes a long look down this road they seem to want to go on.

One Edit: I believe that accounts that were flagged ONLY for "Cheat Engine" deserve a second look and maybe some leniency. Those other listed programs are clearly hacks for GW2 so I don't think there is any grey area there.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:Okay, it was stupid to not think of it, and I'll be more careful in the future. But, as you said, it's all they know. They don't have any evidences of me using this program for cheating in GW2, because I did not do that. There are many ways to detect cheaters, but this is definitely not a good one.

Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion because he was stupid. Do you think the Feds went after a known criminal because of his 'tax evasion?' Again, I'm all for cheating in certain games, but not in any MMO. Running any cheat program while playing an MMO is just asking for it.

My apologies, but this one's all on you.

[usnedward.9023]

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:

@"usnedward.9023" said:You people understand that these hacks and cheats involve dll files in the GW2 directory. IF ANET wants to see what is loading when the game loads.... BAM you're busted. Simple as that. I think this thread is getting hilarious with the whole "spyware" thing since:

1. My antivirus will detect it because it is proactive
2. More than likely it is part of ANETs software to which you agreed to install and use and you violated the TOS (like I did) and got caught
3. This has NOTHING to do with the addons UNLESS they were not sanctioned with an API key
4. The extreme punishment (not so extreme really) is proof in the pudding that there was activities beyond the TOS agreement that got you (and me) banned
5. The fact that ANET WILL NOT be entertaining appeals for these accounts is even MORE proof you cheated

Why is so hard to accept that? Because you poured many hours in the game, cash and so forth? Chance you took.

YOU = anyone who says they did not do anything and got banned. BTW "here look at my computer" does nothing with delete and empty trash....

Oh look another guy who's saying I'm lying and that I deserve the punishment all cause of a program I left active on my computer and didn't think would be a problem cause it wasn't synchronized to the game just sitting there... doing nothing. I stand by my story usnedward.9023 I have nothing to gain or lose by lying at this point. Anet will probably just ignore all of this, keep a stern stance and say "screw you we're keeping this in place just cause." ... The Gall you have man.

I am not calling everyone a "liar". Here is what I would LOVE to see and I know ANET will never do it.

1. You say you didn't do anything (you meaning anyone and not just you)
2. ANET publishes the data they collected on you (Again you is general) and look...this toon just ran at 180% run speed in WvW. And they document that.
3. ANET publishes data showing you somehow went from ground base zero to 500 foot in the air and then moved sideways. And they document that.
4. ANET publishes data showing were outside a keep, no walls or gates down, tier three, and now you are inside creating a portal and letting everyone in. And they document that
5. ANET publishes you under the map hitting POI after POI. And they document that.
6. ANET publishes how you flew over or walked through walls for gated content. And they document that
7. And so on and so forth. BUT this is not going to happen.

You left a program active and I don't understand by what you mean. It is obviously something that you used that was known it shouldn't be? I apologize because they merged my thread with this one and I cannot speak to your point. My guess is YES you will not be getting your account back before 6 months and NO I do not think ANET put out spyware. That would kill them legally and financially not to mention they do not even own the game so whatever the course they took was proactive and cautious and involved the original game designer NCSoft. 1583 accounts is a relatively a small amount of accounts. Maybe the last eight months they are investigating reports. Monitor you. Say yep add to the ban list. Maybe they weren't watching us at all via software......

EDIT: I was a little late to the party and saw Gaile's response. So they were watching in some sort of way. My apologies but it does not affect the outcome nor my opinion if you used it and got banned it's on you. Quit trying to blame the company YOU were taking advantage of.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Hello,

I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in this post. I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered.

Can we please get a formal list of tested and approved 3rd party software for use in connection with GW2? It would avoid many issues with the GW2 community.

[Vault Girl.6792]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"Vault Girl.6792" said:I expected Anet to announce that they are monitoring processes, and that running such programs in the background can lead to ban."We're going to be doing a banwave soon, just giving you a heads up! Close out CheatEngine and [insert hacks here]!"

Of course not like that, but it should be clear that programs, not designed for cheating in GW2 and not used for it, can cause troubles.

@CETheLucid.3964 said:Come on now. Even assuming your story is true, is it a ritual you have to have CheatEngine running while you use it on something else? While GW2 is running? Consistently? They were monitoring for these things for a couple months. That's just poor judgment. Or your cheating.

What's wrong with that? If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

@CETheLucid.3964 said:Either way, this is the end result and any thinking person is going to have trouble offering up any sympathy for your plight. Just own it. It's not permanent.

I hope it's not. Anet should reconsider banning a lot of people for something they did not do.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:I do hope the "you" here was used in a general sense because I wasn't caught up in these bans. The fact that people like you exist that seem to think these companies are infallible and can do no wrong is arguably more troubling than what they seem to be doing here.

Oh the stories I could tell of the trouble these forums have gotten me into. LOL No, I don't think that. But I do think you need to be smarter if you choose to cheat in any game.

Period.

Best of luck convincing ANet otherwise.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:I do hope the "you" here was used in a general sense because I wasn't caught up in these bans. The fact that people like you exist that seem to think these companies are infallible and can do no wrong is arguably more troubling than what they seem to be doing here.

Oh the stories I could tell of the trouble these forums have gotten me into. LOL No, I don't think that. But I do think you need to be smarter if you choose to cheat in

any

game.

Period.

Best of luck convincing ANet otherwise.

I clarified a bit in my original post about what I'm arguing here with this.

"I believe that accounts that were flagged ONLY for "Cheat Engine" deserve a second look and maybe some leniency. Those other listed programs are clearly hacks for GW2 so I don't think there is any grey area there."

I hope that makes my stance more clear. >.>

[starhunter.6015]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@"starhunter.6015" said:Actually it does, can she prove she wasn't using a program that was up and running while using GW2? Anet detected the program running while the game was running and following their EULA Vault Girl.6792 gets her ban. be it bad judgment or cheating she is guilty of running a cheat program while playing.

Can you prove you didn't murder anyone? I'm pretty sure you have some knives, which could be used for stabbing people.How am I supposed to prove that I wasn't cheating? If Anet has information about files I used in Cheat Engine, they can see names like "Tank_dating_simulator_12345" and not "GUILD_WARS_2_PVP_WVW_CHEATS".

I can understand if someone gets mistakenly banned for one day, but there must be solid reasons to ban someone for 6 months, not just "this program was running at the same time, we have no idea whether it was used for cheating though".

Actually I can prove to the proper authorities I haven't killed any one. A few ways at that, haven't been at or near any recent murder scene (an not talking about some murder that happend like 10-20 years ago) Can often prove where I have been or am at. Being a adult means you're tracked at work and pretty much every where else you go to spend money via a card. Plus only dna that would come off any of my knives ,mainly x-acto's by the way. would be my own dna from slipping while working on art.Plus Anet didn't look to at your files only the processes running. The one program was a known hack for GW2 even if you wasn't using it for GW2 you became guilty by association . But that is all on you since you had it on your pc, you had it running. A mistake sure , a lesson learned sure and a hard one at that.