Jump to content
  • Sign Up

The problem with Spellbreaker in Pvp


Jalal.6783

Recommended Posts

Spellbreaker has a lot of things going for it but i don't think i have seen anyone break it down to a degree that is clearly visible and understood by the masses. Full counter is a discussion point across the board for this class. Adrenaline health is incredibly powerful, a much overlooked aspect of their kit; Rousing Resilience itself and a

FULL COUNTEROne of the most discussed tools of a Spellbreaker's kit is Full counter. My suggested change; No protection, resistance or burst skills being reset UNLESS you hit the target that initially procced your full counter to begin with and the daze ONLY applies to that target, not aoe. As of right now, they get all of the previously mentioned benefits as long as their full counter is HIT, not ON HIT of full counter itself. Adrenaline health is incredibly powerful and a much overlooked aspect of their kit Rousing Resilience itself.

ADRENALINE HEALTHShall we take a further look at Adrenaline Health? The maximum number of stacks you can have is equivalent to the maximum number of bars of adrenaline available to you. Core warrior have three bars, so they should have three stacks. Berserker has three as well but when it goes berserk, the three is converted into one. As far as their time spent in Berserk Mode, each burst skill hit grants one stack of adrenaline health for a maximum of three total due to it needing to spend three bars to begin with to even enter Berserk Mode must spend three bars to begin with. Spellbreaker would only be able to have a maximum of two stacks of adrenaline health.

ROUSING RESILIENCEWhy Rousing Resilience? Let's talk about it. The trait gives the warrior 1000 toughness for eight seconds upon stun break AND heals them for 2.5k hp. To put 1000 toughness into perspective, the Chieftain was hitting me for 1700 with his slash ability (this is his overhead auto attack) with 2907 toughness. With Rousing Resilience, the Chieftain was only doing 1100 damage. this is a 35% damage decrease from power builds, the equivalent of having protection on top of Spellbreaker already having access to moderate protection uptime due to full counter (3 seconds with no extended boon duration, 4 seconds with leadership rune effectively giving the warrior anywhere from 25% to 33% protection maintenance if full counter which is a 12 second cooldown being cast when it is available). On top of this, Balance Stance procs this trait upon activation, in or out of combat, not upon stun break. Combine these two things and an 1700 damaging attack only does 700 damage. This makes them all but immune to any 1v1 vs a power build, even in 2v1's with only the damage reduction from Rousing Resilience. With their constant access to resistance, heavy cc and extra healing from Rousing Resilience , even a condition spec will have trouble vs a Spellbreaker running the trait essentially giving it no clear weaknesses or ways to bring it down effectively other than throwing multiple bodies at it and we all know what happens when you send two or three people to handle one person; map is quickly lost.

My suggestion is a simple one. Lower the heal from 2.5k to 1.5k. For the toughness afterwards, instead of gaining all of the 1000 toughness from one stun break, it needs to be built up much like Adrenaline Health and adrenaline bars. Break it down into 3 stacks lasting 10 seconds each (It is 8 seconds now but add 2 seconds because it needs to be stacked up) but only giving 1/3 the toughness. This would force the warrior to have to fully invest in stun breaks to reap the full benefits of the trait and allows them to slowly reach high levels of toughness but only after significant commitment and time in a fight as opposed to reaching that just after one stun.

CLOSING ARGUMENTSThis is not taking into account the great sword whirling slash, shield block, the immense amount of low cooldown crowd controls, Full Counter itself lasting one and a half seconds with a half second cast time essentially giving them two seconds . All the while Adrenaline Health is ticking, protection is going and the initial heal Rousing Resilience plus the toughness tacted on afterwards.

This will do leaps and bounds to nerf their sustain and tankiness without destroying the class and making it more skill based as opposed to casting Full Counter off cd and reaping the benefits without needing to make contact, Rousing Resilience being a large heal, giving them such a huge amount of damage reduction after only one stun break and in the case of Balanced Stance, just activating it will give you the buff .

TLDRAdrenaline Health- Maximum two stacks for Spellbreaker. 2 bars of adrenaline total, 2 stacks

Full counter - 2 much free power without meaningful proper usage.Changes: Now gains protection, resistance and resets burst skills upon hitting who initially set Full Counter off to begin with as opposed to gaining all of these for having the skill procced, regardless or not if anything is hit. Daze applies to those who proc the full counter, not aoe.

Rousing Resilience- Deceptively high levels of damage reduction from power specs only after one stun break.Changes: Lower the heal from 2.5k to 1.5k. Stacking mechanic (3 stun breaks to reach full power) as opposed to reaching that after one stunbreak. Fix where Balanced Stance procs this trait upon activation, in or out of combat, not upon stun break.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with most of the proposed changes. The amount of sustain Spellbreaker has is ridiculous, as well as the amount of CC, resistance, resetting burst skills etc. These nerfs I believe would be justified because it takes at least 2 people to kill a good Spellbreaker.

Also, it sucks for the other players because, especially if you're a thief you have to play like a god, having lightning fast reflexes and dodging every CC the Spellbreaker throws at you while the Spellbreaker presses one button which is Full Counter every so often. Also, they get to use Rampage, which is just more CC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nerf that class and not mine!!!

lol

At this point I don't care what they balance and "fix" something else is always overlooked and certain classes never get nerfs. This game will never have good balance and the next expansion classes will be the most OP... because of MONEY. I don't take PvP serious because of poor balance, win traders, afkers, throwers, pve guys not knowing how to rotate or people don't understand their own class! It's all a joke.

I re-rolled a Scourge yesterday because it is always overlooked and me and my buddy are dominating in Gold 2 with our Scourge/Support FB combo and yesterday was our first day playing those classes! It's all literally a joke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really care much for specific skills, although you are right, what I care about is the trade off. Spellbreaker has none. Even without Espec.It has insanely high dmg, with insanely high sustain, heck even very good mobility when on GS. No profession should have this kind of ratio.It's DMG or Sustain should be adjusted to have high dmg, moderate sustain or the opposite.Right now, while not being the most OP profession, it's still the easiest one. But then again, I noticed this is very common in almost all MMOs that warrior is always the most easy and least punishing to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I appreciate some of your assessment, but some of what you said is a disconnect from the real game. Calling full counter a 2 sec block while including the half-second evade is kind of silly, just because you only block once and usually your block gets procced quickly by AOE.

I get that Spellbreaker is strong, but it needs to be to be able to survive a lick of combat with a mesmer, scourge, and even a decent SD thief (no, thief is not OP, my friendly thief mains). I'm not saying any one of the three need significant nerfs, but if you nerf one, nerf the others accordingly.

My 2C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While some of these ideas are good, their implementation should be very careful. The main reason is warrior is extremely binary. It's been very difficult in the 6 years of gw2 for warrior to be in an "average" state. It's historically been extremely strong, or absolutely awful.

A few comments:

  • I see the FC "don't apply the damage/daze in AOE" comment all the time...but I don't really think it will make that much of a difference. The amount of time a spellbreaker spends in a team fight right now is extremely little. When it does get +1'd on the side node, its typically by a class than can handle the FC procs with range, evades, invulns, etc. (i.e. thief, rev, mesmer, etc)

  • The meta warrior builds have not had a skill with more than 360 range since the condi LB berserker meta days (been at least a year). Break Enchantments is 360 and FC is 300. This stems from the fact that OH shield and GS are so strong and warrior has no MH weapon with a large amount of ranged pressure. Say if warrior had a sword MH similar to revenant, than the nerfs you described could work. We do have rampage, which has helped with the Last Stand nerfs, but 1 or 2 blinds and Rampage = nothing. But a meta build with no ranged pressure is very reliant on its ability to sustain itself...as it must be melee.

  • A warrior without the ability to resustain himself with Adrenal Health, Healing signet, rousing(maybe)...is basically a sitting duck. Then you end up with HoT era of berseker, which was really fun...but unviable for the majority of the lifespan of the game. There were a few patches where it worked, but when compared to Herald, Tempest, Druid, Scrapper, Chrono, Daredevil, Reaper...it was pretty poor.

  • I do like the direction you made with these suggestions. I think they should be pair with buffs in different ways. Such as changing Sight Beyond Sight to being some skill with a smoke field. That could provide a way for warrior to mix up its utilities a bit and resustain by stealth (like the vast majority of side node metas do), versus just tanking damage and resustaining with the same set of burst/utility skills.

  • Overall though, good job on being pretty fair in the ideas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's really just rousing resilience. Spellbreaker after the nerfs but before the RR build came into meta was actually pretty balanced. I like the OPs suggestion to fix RR but they could also just fix the balanced stance bug and reduce the duration to 4 seconds. Maybe even lower the heal amount.

And that's just warrior. Holo, scourge, fb, mesmer, and core thief all need to be toned down in varying levels. The last skill split went a long way towards nerfing power creep but it's not enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I have had some really bad times against good warriors I admit but... FC is already a very clear animation and all people know how it works. Not triggering it isn't that hard so to speak. Requiring warrior to be hit by the original hitter would make the skill almost redundant - let's not forget it's a special skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dreddo.9865 said:Well I have had some really bad times against good warriors I admit but... FC is already a very clear animation and all people know how it works. Not triggering it isn't that hard so to speak. Requiring warrior to be hit by the original hitter would make the skill almost redundant - let's not forget it's a special skill.

It would also cripple spellbreakers against mesmers, rangers, and anything with adds, which they are kind of thematically made to fight.

I agree with most of the proposed changes. The amount of sustain Spellbreaker has is ridiculous, as well as the amount of CC, resistance, resetting burst skills etc. These nerfs I believe would be justified because it takes at least 2 people to kill a good Spellbreaker.

Also, it sucks for the other players because, especially if you're a thief you have to play like a god, having lightning fast reflexes and dodging every CC the Spellbreaker throws at you while the Spellbreaker presses one button which is Full Counter every so often. Also, they get to use Rampage, which is just more CC.

Thief in general has to play like a god against every other class that isnt wearing a zerker amulet, unless they run pistol pistol which opens them up to other thieves as a trade off for ease of use.

RE: Topic.

Tentative yes on sustain tone down. I'd tone down from Spellbreaker though, because warriors at core are fine and RR is used in other builds. I'd prefer if they just fixed the stupid Balanced stance bug that gives warriors free toughness on balanced stance whether they stunbroke or not, but the way its going they'll just gut us again and let chronomesmers run free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me explain something OP.

I can't believe you have rousing resilience on the list. I mean.....wow? Look, I've tested. Using a toughness amulet, toughness rune, and procing rousing resilience, a FA ele will still kill you in 1.5sec. And p/p thief would still kill you in maybe 2secs or so. Toughness or any natural defense stat should never be part of any discussion with the current state of the game. Because it no longer matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Let me explain something OP.

I can't believe you have rousing resilience on the list. I mean.....wow? Look, I've tested. Using a toughness amulet, toughness rune, and procing rousing resilience, a FA ele will still kill you in 1.5sec.

Shatterstone is the skill to blame! ANet nerf it already!

15% damage buff but added a 1/4s cast time. That should balance Elementalist over all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...