Rant toward pug players on VG.

[Vinceman.4572]

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:We do mistakes, of course but it won't lead to a wipe. Worst case is 2-3 people dying during the fight while the rest beat VG anyway. And that's the only point here. It's not about people making a single mistake from time to time.

Say that to all the hardcore raid guilds wiping in the tournament due to stupid things : D

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument. The environment is completely different. The tournament thing has way more pressure on all the players and less safety net like in a pug where you have 2 healers and no pressure at all since the enrage timer is veeerrrryyyy lenient for VG.Additionally hardcore elite raiders know how to execute it properly with 2 healers they just don't run it because they don't need to or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

One last thing, if you are not able to heal through it only pick one druid and another healer.

[nia.4725]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:We do mistakes, of course but it won't lead to a wipe. Worst case is 2-3 people dying during the fight while the rest beat VG anyway. And that's the only point here. It's not about people making a single mistake from time to time.

Say that to all the hardcore raid guilds wiping in the tournament due to stupid things : D

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument. The environment is completely different. The tournament thing has way more pressure on all the players and less safety net like in a pug where you have 2 healers and no pressure at all since the enrage timer is veeerrrryyyy lenient for VG.Additionally hardcore elite raiders know how to execute it properly with 2 healers they just don't run it because they don't need to or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

One last thing, if you are not able to heal through it only pick one druid and another healer.

or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

Do you think we weren't able to kill it afterwards?

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument

I brought arguments but you dismissed them just because.

But it's okay, we're such bad players wow if you have a bad day you're raid trash go look for better players lul 0/10

[Vinceman.4572]

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:We do mistakes, of course but it won't lead to a wipe. Worst case is 2-3 people dying during the fight while the rest beat VG anyway. And that's the only point here. It's not about people making a single mistake from time to time.

Say that to all the hardcore raid guilds wiping in the tournament due to stupid things : D

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument. The environment is completely different. The tournament thing has way more pressure on all the players and less safety net like in a pug where you have 2 healers and no pressure at all since the enrage timer is veeerrrryyyy lenient for VG.Additionally hardcore elite raiders know how to execute it properly with 2 healers they just don't run it because they don't need to or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

One last thing, if you are not able to heal through it only pick one druid and another healer.

or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

Do you think we weren't able to kill it afterwards?

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument

I brought arguments but you dismissed them just because.

But it's okay, we're such bad players wow if you have a bad day you're raid trash go look for better players lul 0/10

You still haven't understood the OP and his rant. It's not about your group and your wipes or kills.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

@Susy.7529 said:Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

WRONG. It can and has been done many times. Sorry you rng was bad.

[nia.4725]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:We do mistakes, of course but it won't lead to a wipe. Worst case is 2-3 people dying during the fight while the rest beat VG anyway. And that's the only point here. It's not about people making a single mistake from time to time.

Say that to all the hardcore raid guilds wiping in the tournament due to stupid things : D

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument. The environment is completely different. The tournament thing has way more pressure on all the players and less safety net like in a pug where you have 2 healers and no pressure at all since the enrage timer is veeerrrryyyy lenient for VG.Additionally hardcore elite raiders know how to execute it properly with 2 healers they just don't run it because they don't need to or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

One last thing, if you are not able to heal through it only pick one druid and another healer.

or have you seen them wiping on a boss and not being able to kill it afterwards? lul

Do you think we weren't able to kill it afterwards?

Sry, but it's pointless to argue any further if you bring in that argument

I brought arguments but you dismissed them just because.

But it's okay, we're such bad players wow if you have a bad day you're raid trash go look for better players lul 0/10

You still haven't understood the OP and his rant. It's not about your group and your wipes or kills.

This has nothing to do with the rant. It's about you assuming that a player, if gets tped at VG, is a bad player when you don't know anything about that player.

[Talindra.4958]

@Kal Bhairav.6589 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:Can be done only by static group?That's a lot of nonsense.

That's not what OP means. He was simply saying that its usually messy with pug trying to outheal green. People really have no idea how pug works. I should know. Because all 1000+li that i earned, i have only done with pug (except, i joined static 1 time and left after a week). It is very unpredictable and that is the best part :).So, outhealing green can be smooth and effective but most of the time, it's cluster mess.

Me too all my 1400li+ (or more) done only with pug. This why I like to go healer. Elite res nature spirits when use at right time can save lots of run. I prefer no green . U get to see who can not do simple black mechanic

[thrag.9740]

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@thrag.9740 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@thrag.9740 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I think OP is forgetting all the times pug had trouble standing in a giant green circle. At least with skipping greens all downed players are in not lit sections.

With my pug experience I can 100% say that mistakes with overheal vs mistakes with standing in greens are in a 4:1 ratio...

+1

Overheal with pugs is messy and risky and it always almost fails, from my experience.

I guess I would point out this difference. Maybe I am different, but typically if I pug, I am still going to invite some reliable friends from my static. If I join a no greens vg as a minstrel chrono tank, I can invite 2 friends to fill druid roles and it is pretty much guaranteed to go smoothly. Doing greens requires 5 players who know what they are doing, the tank (who needs to make sure greens don't spawn in lit sections) and 4 players who can stand in greens. 5 competent players is harder to find than 3.

Outheal is not just a decent tank and decent healers. Outheal means stacking, and stacking means that everyone has to be on point. They can't get teleported, or they'll probably die far away from the stack. They have to stack properly behind the vale guardian, but with so much visual clutter it isn't as easy to see something that basic. Yesterday, I did outheal VG. I was the tank. First 2 phases at the center, then rotating. I didn't do it perfectly (I got teleported once), but the main problem was that we had 2-4 players getting teleported at almost all blues. So how a tank and a druid could have saved the raid? Nah they couldn't do that, since everyone else was not doing things properly. We killed VG when less people got tped.

People get teleported regardless of green strategy. They are called bad players, and they tend to die no matter what method you use.

Congrats on your generalisation.

In that case he is absolutely right. Either you hear the blue circles and/or see them or you're just bad if you don't avoid them.

No, he isn't. A bad player is someone who eats blue circles constantly. Someone wno knows the mechanics but isn't capable of executing them. But everybody has a bad day sometimes.

My vg from yesterday was with my static. They are not bad players. We all had a bad day, that's it. Some days we 5man vg and do wing 4 cms in a short time, some days are bad and we do weird things. Or are you all perfect and play perfect always?

I'm sure you don't. You have your up and downs like everyone else.

So when it comes to skipping greens, your saying people make mistakes, so its a bad method. But when I point out that people also make mistakes standing on greens....thats not valid? If one person misses a green, anyone in the group could die. one person getting teleported kills only themselves.

Also, just to point out. If people can get teleported by blues realistically.....blues spawn on green all the time. And how many pugs know they can jump to skip blues (if you even can do that nowadays).

[Eramonster.2718]

Both method isn't foolproof as there are risks involved. (In a foolproof plan, there is no "if".) Just pros and cons.

[Vinceman.4572]

@nia.4725 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:You still haven't understood the OP and his rant. It's not about your group and your wipes or kills.

This has nothing to do with the rant. It's about you assuming that a player, if gets tped at VG, is a bad player when you don't know anything about that player.

Hehe, still not gotten it, right? If a player gets teleported once in a while it's because he didn't pay attention this time, maybe couldn't see it this particular blue circle due to visual clusterfuck or his mother/gf/wife came into his room and yelled at him. All that can happen to the best players in the world. The point is this won't lead to a group wipe and that's the only thing what matters here. Every good to very good group won't care at all, this players probably dies but they finish the boss without a problem. On the other side if this player is getting teleported every week you can consider him as "bad" since he could start learning the mechanic and be an adequate help for the team.

If you feel hurt maybe you are not on the same skill level than others which is not a severe thing. You can still improve your gameplay.

[nia.4725]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:You still haven't understood the OP and his rant. It's not about your group and your wipes or kills.

This has nothing to do with the rant. It's about you assuming that a player, if gets tped at VG, is a bad player when you don't know anything about that player.

Hehe, still not gotten it, right? If a player gets teleported once in a while it's because he didn't pay attention this time, maybe couldn't see it this particular blue circle due to visual kitten or his mother/gf/wife came into his room and yelled at him. All that can happen to the best players in the world. The point is this won't lead to a group wipe and that's the only thing what matters here. Every good to very good group won't care at all, this players probably dies but they finish the boss without a problem. On the other side if this player is getting teleported every week you can consider him as "bad" since he could start learning the mechanic and be an adequate help for the team.

If you feel hurt maybe you are not on the same skill level than others which is not a severe thing. You can still improve your gameplay.

...but that's what I said, don't you read my posts? I do not agree on the "the group will never wipe" but I already said that a player is bad if they gets teleported constantly. Wth.

Good luck, super duper high skilled pve elite player.

[Vinceman.4572]

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:You still haven't understood the OP and his rant. It's not about your group and your wipes or kills.

This has nothing to do with the rant. It's about you assuming that a player, if gets tped at VG, is a bad player when you don't know anything about that player.

Hehe, still not gotten it, right? If a player gets teleported once in a while it's because he didn't pay attention this time, maybe couldn't see it this particular blue circle due to visual kitten or his mother/gf/wife came into his room and yelled at him. All that can happen to the best players in the world. The point is this won't lead to a group wipe and that's the only thing what matters here. Every good to very good group won't care at all, this players probably dies but they finish the boss without a problem. On the other side if this player is getting teleported every week you can consider him as "bad" since he could start learning the mechanic and be an adequate help for the team.

If you feel hurt maybe you are not on the same skill level than others which is not a severe thing. You can still improve your gameplay.

...but that's what I said, don't you read my posts? I do not agree on the "the group will never wipe" but I already said that a player is bad if they gets teleported constantly. Wth.

Good luck, super duper high skilled pve elite player.

Sry, but you haven't read my posts carefully before. Not my mistake. And thanks for the compliment. Maybe I am and according to some posts of you about playing dps roles in other threads I was also thinking the same. Have a nice day!

[Astralporing.1957]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

WRONG. It can and has been done many times. Sorry you rng was bad.That's the whole point. Overheal with pugs is a far greater rng factor than doing greens.

[Alek Seven.2374]

@thrag.9740 said: And how many pugs know they can jump to skip blues (if you even can do that nowadays).

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think devs fixed it.