Raid Wing 5 The Underworld

[zengara.8301]

In Wing 5 we get to the underworld. What surprised me was the settlement when you entered. It seemed lesss like a ghost place and more like a real livable area, with real fresh food, paintings and simple construction of how humans build around the 16-1700´s. Is there a deeper reason for that, (Like living humans used to be here or something?) or is it just kinda a "lazy! way to show that this is a human place?And why is Grenth missing?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@zengara.8301 said:And why is Grenth missing?

Play the PoF story to find out.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Not very different from the Underworld in GW1, where we had a whole village of ghosts. Never really brought up, but in all likelihood, the dead likely enjoy the same activities as the living. Body or not.

As for Grenth missing, as Ayrilana said, it's presented in Path of Fire. Halfway through the expansion.

[zengara.8301]

ohh I have finished the PoF game, and I get why they left.....Still think that it was kinda a preemptive move....ok, so does every race have their own underworld? Since when I entered with the asura and a charr, it seems like they referenced that it was not going to be where they were heading after they die

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

It's not really pre-emptive since staying would amount to no benefit, and their goal is to find a new inhabitable world that lacks world-ending threats like the Elder Dragon, supposedly to return to Tyria to bring humanity (perhaps other species) to said world. An act very similar to how they arrived on Tyria in the first place.

There's more afterlives than The Underworld. Even humanity has at least four common afterlives for them (The Underworld (aka Realm of the Dead), Realm of Torment (aka Nightmare Realm), Fissure of Woe (aka Realm of War), and Eternal Paradise). But like we see in the Domain of the Lost (which is part of the Underworld) and the Mad Realm (again, part of the Underworld), non-humans do go to the Underworld as well as humans.

[zengara.8301]

Ohh awesome. But if they did find a new world, wouldnt that stop any magic? Because without the dragons=No magic, right? Sorry I am very much not into the lore of this game

If you enter Wing 5, the little asura said that she hopes the eternal alchemy isnt as boring as that place (or something like that), which kinda indicated that she would go to the eternal alchemy rather than the underworld.

Another question, is there only like a "hell" in this world, or is there also a "paradise" afterlife scenario?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@zengara.8301 said:Ohh awesome. But if they did find a new world, wouldnt that stop any magic? Because without the dragons=No magic, right? Sorry I am very much not into the lore of this game

No, that's not the case. Magic is part of the world, it doesn't come from the Elder Dragons. The Elder Dragons try to consume it all but never can due to, it would seem, too many contenders for eating magic forcing them to go into hibernation because they run out of magic to eat. But the Mists has magic too (which is likely why Jormag has been trying to spread into the Mists; why other dragons don't give the attempt is hard to say). The gods came to the world as gods too, so it isn't like any innate magic will simply vanish. However, that said, we were told that the world the gods and humanity came from was with little magic. It would be possible for other worlds to be low on magic, but also possible for them to be very high on magic, still without Elder Dragons (or at least, without hostile versions of Elder Dragons).

@zengara.8301 said:If you enter Wing 5, the little asura said that she hopes the eternal alchemy isnt as boring as that place (or something like that), which kinda indicated that she would go to the eternal alchemy rather than the underworld.

That line is a bit odd, since the Eternal Alchemy is literally how the entire multiverse functions and all the pieces interwork. It's not a location.

@zengara.8301 said:Another question, is there only like a "hell" in this world, or is there also a "paradise" afterlife scenario?

Depends on perception on what marks "hell" and "paradise". The Underworld and Fissure of Woe would be rewarding for those who like those kinds of settings, such as necromancers and warriors respectively. But like I mentioned, there's an afterlife called Eternal Paradise so... that sounds pretty much like Heaven / Valhalla / Avalon / Elysium to me. (Well, Fissure of Woe is basically a fire and brimstone version of Valhalla really).

[Narcemus.1348]

As to where is Grenth, while we know where the gods are it still makes little sense. I am still angry with ArenaNet due to the extreme lack of love from the gods to the spirits of their followers. I mean Kormir knew that her Sanctum would be destroyed and yet left all of her followers to be defeated and likely consumed without a single care. And Grenth, who shows great interest in making sure that souls receive right judgement for their actions in life, leaves them all to the mercy of the previous God of death known for just consuming souls to empower himself. Quite the just way to do things. :/

[Ayrilana.1396]

There’s likely a bigger picture that Anet is going with this.

[zengara.8301]

well thank you everyone, awesome now I know a bit more about the lore of the game. Seems like there is many balls floating though :bleep_bloop:

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:It's not really pre-emptive since staying would amount to no benefit, and their goal is to find a new inhabitable world that lacks world-ending threats like the Elder Dragon, supposedly to return to Tyria to bring humanity (perhaps other species) to said world. An act very similar to how they arrived on Tyria in the first place.

There's more afterlives than The Underworld. Even humanity has at least four common afterlives for them (The Underworld (aka Realm of the Dead), Realm of Torment (aka Nightmare Realm), Fissure of Woe (aka Realm of War), and Eternal Paradise). But like we see in the Domain of the Lost (which is part of the Underworld) and the Mad Realm (again, part of the Underworld), non-humans do go to the Underworld as well as humans.

In the departing it is implied if you talk to Nicholas and Yngvild that different races do go to other places."I know I'm supposed to go to raven and he with his god but we'd rather spend eternity here." Paraphrased slightly.

Asura could mean being put back into the cycle when they talk about the eternal alchemy, maybe it's a term of becoming enlightened. Do Asura believe in reincarnation though?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

Asura could mean being put back into the cycle when they talk about the eternal alchemy, maybe it's a term of becoming enlightened. Do Asura believe in reincarnation though?

Not in any specific sense, so far as we know.Vekk: "My father believed in the Eternal Alchemy. We are all part of a larger equation."Vekk: "And so we commend Gadd's remains to that greater equation."Vekk: "His ashes return to the universe, but his knowledge remains with us."

That's the only real source we have on the matter. It reads, to me, like they believe that the pieces that make up a person get taken apart and recycled elsewhere. That said, though, we don't know much about the specific beliefs the asura (and charr) have when it comes to the soul. They're certainly aware of ghosts, but to my knowledge they never speak about the afterlife or what will happen to them after death. Both races seem rooted in their life on Tyria, so it may simply be that they culturally don't give the matter much thought, or it may be a detail ANet never bothered to pin down because it isn't relevant to the race's archetypal identity.

[goodgrief.1382]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There’s likely a bigger picture that Anet is going with this.

yes, don't use gods as a cheap cop out to address existential crisis.

[zengara.8301]

ohh I got an extra question. Since Sylvari simply is categorized as minions of modremoth. Will they too just die and disappear?

[Narcemus.1348]

We know Sylvari have souls thanks to some POF stories. The question of whether Sylvari are special or whether all dragon minions have souls is up in the air.

[Tyson.5160]

@Narcemus.1348 said:We know Sylvari have souls thanks to some POF stories. The question of whether Sylvari are special or whether all dragon minions have souls is up in the air.

Possibly these souls are created by the Pale Tree?The Pale Tree seems to have some sort of connection to Tyria, the world, as we have been bombarded with drawings and visions of the Pale Tree being at the centre and connected to the main sphere of Tyria with the Elder Dragons being orbs that rotate around her.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:We know Sylvari have souls thanks to some POF stories. The question of whether Sylvari are special or whether all dragon minions have souls is up in the air.

Possibly these souls are created by the Pale Tree?The Pale Tree seems to have some sort of connection to Tyria, the world, as we have been bombarded with drawings and visions of the Pale Tree being at the centre and connected to the main sphere of Tyria with the Elder Dragons being orbs that rotate around her.

So does that mean Malyck is dead?

[Tyson.5160]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:We know Sylvari have souls thanks to some POF stories. The question of whether Sylvari are special or whether all dragon minions have souls is up in the air.

Possibly these souls are created by the Pale Tree?The Pale Tree seems to have some sort of connection to Tyria, the world, as we have been bombarded with drawings and visions of the Pale Tree being at the centre and connected to the main sphere of Tyria with the Elder Dragons being orbs that rotate around her.

So does that mean Malyck is dead?

Malyck is such an odd phenomenon. Second uncorrupted Pale Tree that also decided to create Sylvari. Has no dream, has a sense of distance and loss.

[norbes.3620]

We dont know about his whereaboutsHe could have went to travel into maguma heard the Call went berzerk vs the pact and died there

But He tell us that sylvari from other trees Do exist and have enough personality to expect em for having a soul

Maybe all of mordremoths minnions had one and it's necessary for his mind Domain that's Hard to say

[Invidia.9074]

In "Bug in the System" a piece of info from Inquest strongly points that the nature of Mordremoth's minions was that of a hivemind, which would make it hard to have different personalities.

[Tyson.5160]

@"Invidia.9074" said:In "Bug in the System" a piece of info from Inquest strongly points that the nature of Mordremoth's minions was that of a hivemind, which would make it hard to have different personalities.

All the dragon’s have a sort of hive mind already.

I think that line is to reference that Kralkatorrik has acquired the mind magic sphere. If you continue on after that point it shows two minions firing energy at the same object with no communication. It appears that when Kralkatorrik absorbed the mind sphere from Mordremoth his minions acquired more awareness between minions themselves.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the mind sphere increased the dangerousness of the Branded. If we killed a Branded out in the desert, I believe only Kralkatorrik would know that this has occurred. With the mind sphere in the picture I imagine other branded would know too.

[Invidia.9074]

Never looked at it this way, but in-game this is not explored further (which is kind of a pity, if you ask me - could have at least been acknowledged in ambient dialogue between the Mordrem). Also I didn't notice that these two Branded were firing at the same position.

Although now that I think of it, it's not exactly the minions that command the spectrae of magic, but the Dragons themselves. I wonder if Kralkatorrik would be able to try and take control over Aurene herself, even despite her being Glint's offspring - now he's got more in common with her due to both her and him absorbing fragments of Mordremoth's mind sphere. And of course she's his actual granddaughter so to speak, and technically wasn't purified as Glint was.

[Tyson.5160]

@Invidia.9074 said:

Although now that I think of it, it's not exactly the minions that command the spectrae of magic, but the Dragons themselves.

Yes, however they can augment their minions with these new spheres.

And of course she's his actual granddaughter so to speak, and technically wasn't purified as Glint was.

But she is from Glint, who was purified, which in turn makes Aurene and Vlast purified as well.