Mesmer "balance"

[Abelisk.4527]

@Vague Memory.2817 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vague Memory.2817 said:What is this bunker chrono everyone is talking about, I've seen no matches where a chrono can hold a cap with enough sustain that isn't done better by Scourge, firebrand, warr or ele. Chrono bunker got nerfed about 2 years ago.

There has been at least one every single match I've been in all season long. Check godsofpvp.net it's probably still on there in the mesmer section.

It made the survivability of spellbreaker, ele druid and Firebrand a joke and had higher sustained damage than a holosmith.. The last monthly tournament final had 5 of them between 10 players. 2 on one team and 3 on the other.

If you aren't aware of what is even happening in Spvp this season why do you care?

I'm telling you what I've seen all season, and I play a lot. I've just not seen any chrono bunkers at all. If you're talking about the top 0.05 of Mes players that can play at that level. That is great...for them. But out of tournaments and legendary who is playing at that level, not that many. I main chrono, so I actually know what I'm talking about. It is possible if you are very very good to be unkillable if you play perfect rotations and know all other classes skills strengths and weakness, but how many players can do that, relatively very few. However this is can be said of other classes too.

Because all the chronobunkers left silver elo.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@dude.2950 said:Now that mesmer has been balanced, what class will forum be complaining about next ?

Mesmer . They nerfed the dmg but not the 110% stealth uptime and the 100 second evade chain.Oh and the Condi spam

I know you're exaggerating to make your point but I'll go ahead and list the stealth options anyway:2 seconds on Signet of Midnight 30 second cooldown3 seconds on The Prestige and Decoy 30 second and 40 second cooldowns respectively5 seconds on Mass Invis which nobody runs. Ever.2 seconds on Veil, but y'know dat cooldown

As far as evade chains go, you can't actually do the ridiculous 12 second evade chain unless you give up your spots for portal and blink and even then Desert Distortion effectively just increases Distortions timer by 3 seconds. It's not that overbearing.

Well if you only survive 12s that's 100% uptime bruh

I'm impressed that someone could die that fast.

[mrauls.6519]

I am ecstatic. I hope to NOT see anymore bunker chronos for the rest of the season.

[dude.2950]

@"mrauls.6519" said:I am ecstatic. I hope to NOT see anymore bunker chronos for the rest of the season.

You will see alot more condi mirages now. Make sure you have condi cleanse dude.

[mrauls.6519]

I'll take my chances. I'll report back in a week... LoL

[Kraitan.8476]

Mesmer torch still needs balancing, look what they did to ranger torch over the last few patches, why is torch on mesmer still like this?

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Kraitan.8476 said:Mesmer torch still needs balancing, look what they did to ranger torch over the last few patches, why is torch on mesmer still like this?

Cause both skills have really long cool downs, Mesmer doesn't have quick draw and neither skill is really 'ranged' per se if you want to max burning stacks?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

blast gyro is the true winner cuz of the fact that its unevadable and will still chase you after youve tried to dodge its attackYALL KNOW NOTHIN

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Mesmer is not balanced at all....name another class that has access to blinds, invulns, evades, blurs, dodges, blocks, blinks, n teleports n stealth all on one toon in one build? You cant... The mechanic that is mesmer is broken and overpowered it self when compaired to any other class.

Editited in stealth...lolz

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Mesmer is not balanced at all....name another class that has access to blinds, invulns, evades, blurs, dodges, blocks, blinks, n teleports all on one toon in one build? You cant... The mechanic that is mesmer is broken and overpowered it self when compaired to any other class.

Blinds, anyone can get theseInvulns, we have one on a 50 second cooldown and it's been like that since release although the cooldown was slightly higher at one point,Evades, assuming you mean weapon skills, other classes also have evade on weapon skills it's not newBlurs, see previous pointDodges, everyone has these, and in the current meta build there's exactly one spot open for an additional dodgeBlinks and teleports are the same thing.

Edit: I did miss blocks, which we have 3 of, two are counterattacks which means if you attacked them you're supposed to be punished so you don't get to complain about those since hitting them means you're flippant with AoE's or don't understand your opponent. And Echo of Memory has one of the longest cooldown timers for a channeled block in the game so I don't know what you're upset about.

You literally expanded two points into four points out of some sort of misguided spite I suppose.

[gateless gate.8406]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Mesmer is not balanced at all....name another class that has access to blinds, invulns, evades, blurs, dodges, blocks, blinks, n teleports all on one toon in one build? You cant... The mechanic that is mesmer is broken and overpowered it self when compaired to any other class.

Blinds, anyone can get theseInvulns, we have one on a 50 second cooldown and it's been like that since release although the cooldown was slightly higher at one point,Evades, assuming you mean weapon skills, other classes also have evade on weapon skills it's not newBlurs, see previous pointDodges, everyone has these, and in the current meta build there's exactly one spot open for an additional dodgeBlinks and teleports are the same thing.

You literally expanded two points into four points out of some sort of misguided spite I suppose.

All them words and you still failed to answer the question: What other class?

Oh, and add stealth + clone army to the list.

[apharma.3741]

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Mesmer is not balanced at all....name another class that has access to blinds, invulns, evades, blurs, dodges, blocks, blinks, n teleports all on one toon in one build? You cant... The mechanic that is mesmer is broken and overpowered it self when compaired to any other class.

Blinds, anyone can get theseInvulns, we have one on a 50 second cooldown and it's been like that since release although the cooldown was slightly higher at one point,Evades, assuming you mean weapon skills, other classes also have evade on weapon skills it's not newBlurs, see previous pointDodges, everyone has these, and in the current meta build there's exactly one spot open for an additional dodgeBlinks and teleports are the same thing.

You literally expanded two points into four points out of some sort of misguided spite I suppose.

All them words and you still failed to answer the question: What other class?

Oh, and add stealth + clone army to the list.

Stating clone army is a little unreasonable don’t you think? I mean at that point what don’t we just say guardian has all of that except a weapon skill that evades but it has virtues, undodgeable CC and symbols! Can even get stealth from trapper runes! OP OP OP right?

Also the sad fact is many classes have most of that stuff, yes in a singular build too but they also have other things which make up for what they don’t have, how many classes have additional endurance regeneration outside of vigor? How many classes have better sustained healing? How many blocks does the mesmer have vs other classes? I can tell you right now their shield has one of the lowest block up times in the game.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Mesmer is not balanced at all....name another class that has access to blinds, invulns, evades, blurs, dodges, blocks, blinks, n teleports all on one toon in one build? You cant... The mechanic that is mesmer is broken and overpowered it self when compaired to any other class.

Blinds, anyone can get theseInvulns, we have one on a 50 second cooldown and it's been like that since release although the cooldown was slightly higher at one point,Evades, assuming you mean weapon skills, other classes also have evade on weapon skills it's not newBlurs, see previous pointDodges, everyone has these, and in the current meta build there's exactly one spot open for an additional dodgeBlinks and teleports are the same thing.

You literally expanded two points into four points out of some sort of misguided spite I suppose.

All them words and you still failed to answer the question: What other class?

Oh, and add stealth + clone army to the list.

We have 3 sources of stealth none longer than 3 seconds all on at least a 30 second cooldown please don't even bring up Mass Invis or Veil either, you'll look foolish. The clone army is mutually exclusive with the stealth and extra evades since Chronomancer doesn't run x/Torch and can't use deceptions.

If you had the barest reading comprehension you'd realize the question had been answered. The only real odd man out there is Invuln which is only on 4 classes, Engi, Ele, Mesmer, and Guardian.

[DaShi.1368]

@dude.2950 said:Now that mesmer has been balanced, what class will forum be complaining about next ?

Mesmer. There are still people playing mesmer, and they occasionally win fights. Once this is resolved, mesmer will be balanced.

[gateless gate.8406]

@"apharma.3741" said:Stating clone army is a little unreasonable don’t you think? I mean at that point what don’t we just say guardian has all of that except a weapon skill that evades but it has virtues, undodgeable CC and symbols! Can even get stealth from trapper runes! OP OP OP right?

Also the sad fact is many classes have most of that stuff, yes in a singular build too but they also have other things which make up for what they don’t have, how many classes have additional endurance regeneration outside of vigor? How many classes have better sustained healing? How many blocks does the mesmer have vs other classes? I can tell you right now their shield has one of the lowest block up times in the game.

Virtues and symbols? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with virtues and symbols, at all. Worst counter-argument ever.

Here's the point: Stealth is problematic in any PVP game. Invulnerability is problematic in any PVP game. Creating duplicates of yourself is EXTREMELY problematic in any PVP game. Other games that have included "clone army" characters inevitably see them nerfed to oblivion (or take over the meta) because clones are inherently overpowered against other humans.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:Stating clone army is a little unreasonable don’t you think? I mean at that point what don’t we just say guardian has all of that except a weapon skill that evades but it has virtues, undodgeable CC and symbols! Can even get stealth from trapper runes! OP OP OP right?

Also the sad fact is many classes have most of that stuff, yes in a singular build too but they also have other things which make up for what they don’t have, how many classes have additional endurance regeneration outside of vigor? How many classes have better sustained healing? How many blocks does the mesmer have vs other classes? I can tell you right now their shield has one of the lowest block up times in the game.

Virtues and symbols? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with virtues and symbols, at all. Worst counter-argument ever.

Here's the point: Stealth is problematic in any PVP game. Invulnerability is problematic in any PVP game. Creating duplicates of yourself is EXTREMELY problematic in any PVP game. Other games that have included "clone army" characters inevitably see them nerfed to oblivion (or take over the meta) because clones are inherently overpowered against other humans.

You can't plan around 4 seconds of not being able to damage someone once every 50 seconds? What other games have actually included a 'clone army' (3 paper images are not an army btw). Clones are not inherently over powered, especially when you can cleave them down with abandon and the only actual damage they can do is either condition related or by running at you and exploding in a very obvious attack.

Also apharma mentioned Virtues and symbols to point out that your argument was ridiculous since both have been in the game since Vanilla and neither has actually been that big of a problem. Not surprised it went over your head.

[Imperadordf.2687]

C A R R I O N I N E P T I T U D E I S B A C K B O I S G E T Y O U R C L E A N S E S R E A D Y

[gateless gate.8406]

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

You can't plan around 4 seconds of not being able to damage someone once every 50 seconds? What other games have actually included a 'clone army' (3 paper images are not an army btw). Clones are not inherently over powered, especially when you can cleave them down with abandon and the only actual damage they can do is either condition related or by running at you and exploding in a very obvious attack.

DOTA 2:

You can't just say "not overpowered" and expect that to substitute for sound reasoning. Clones apply confusion IN REAL LIFE to the human mind. They have that ability regardless of how little or how much damage they do. They will never lose that ability; that's why they're inherently overpowered. Listen, I understand you love playing mesmer and getting easy wins, but illusion classes are not healthy in PVP games, as you can see from the pathetic excuse for a meta GW2 has right now. Defending your waifu is actually counter-productive, as keeping mesmer the way it is will drive new players away from the game.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

You can't plan around 4 seconds of not being able to damage someone once every 50 seconds? What other games have actually included a 'clone army' (3 paper images are not an army btw). Clones are not inherently over powered, especially when you can cleave them down with abandon and the only actual damage they can do is either condition related or by running at you and exploding in a very obvious attack.

DOTA 2:

You can't just say "not overpowered" and expect that to substitute for sound reasoning. Clones apply confusion IN REAL LIFE to the human mind. They have that ability regardless of how little or how much damage they do. They will never lose that ability; that's why they're inherently overpowered. Listen, I understand you love playing mesmer and getting easy wins, but illusion classes are not healthy in PVP games, as you can see from the pathetic excuse for a meta GW2 has right now. Defending your waifu is actually counter-productive, as keeping mesmer the way it is will drive new players away from the game.

You can't just link a DOTA 2 game and say it's the same thing, this is GW2, the PvP is vastly different. It's not my problem if you're incapable of cleaving or literally taking half a second to glance at which Mesmer is actually doing something aside from standing in place auto attacking or clinging to you trying to auto attack. You can also just tab and find the one mesmer with boons and/or passive buffs or signets. Literally, git gud.

Also at a cursory glance at that characters abilities, it's clone abilities are vastly different, you can innately command them to attack someone, and only one of them is easily destroyed, completely unlike Mesmer clones and his ultimate ability just passively generates them on attacking. Again git gud, mesmer is not some mystical dive god creature in a okayish moba.

Niche case is niche. A third git gud.

And it's not 'defending my waifu'. I'm keeping knee-jerk, "I'm bad at playing against a specific class so I want to dumb it down and call it 'new player friendly' when realistically I want other people to cover me for my lack of skill," from gaining a foothold.

[mortrialus.3062]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

You can't plan around 4 seconds of not being able to damage someone once every 50 seconds? What other games have actually included a 'clone army' (3 paper images are not an army btw). Clones are not inherently over powered, especially when you can cleave them down with abandon and the only actual damage they can do is either condition related or by running at you and exploding in a very obvious attack.

DOTA 2:

You can't just say "not overpowered" and expect that to substitute for sound reasoning. Clones apply confusion IN REAL LIFE to the human mind. They have that ability regardless of how little or how much damage they do. They will never lose that ability; that's why they're inherently overpowered. Listen, I understand you love playing mesmer and getting easy wins, but illusion classes are not healthy in PVP games, as you can see from the pathetic excuse for a meta GW2 has right now. Defending your waifu is actually counter-productive, as keeping mesmer the way it is will drive new players away from the game.

You can't just link a DOTA 2 game and say it's the same thing, this is GW2, the PvP is vastly different. It's not my problem if you're incapable of cleaving or literally taking half a second to glance at which Mesmer is actually doing something aside from standing in place auto attacking or clinging to you trying to auto attack. You can also just tab and find the one mesmer with boons and/or passive buffs or signets. Literally, git gud.

Also at a cursory glance at that characters abilities, it's clone abilities are vastly different, you can innately command them to attack someone, and only one of them is easily destroyed, completely unlike Mesmer clones and his ultimate ability just passively generates them on attacking. Again git gud, mesmer is not some mystical dive god creature in a okayish moba.

Niche case is niche. A third git gud.

And it's not 'defending my waifu'. I'm keeping knee-jerk, "I'm bad at playing against a specific class so I want to dumb it down and call it 'new player friendly' when realistically I want other people to cover me for my lack of skill," from gaining a foothold.

Not only that but Phantom Lancer is considered extremely mediocre in DOTA 2.

[CaldaRaric.6305]

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:Stating clone army is a little unreasonable don’t you think? I mean at that point what don’t we just say guardian has all of that except a weapon skill that evades but it has virtues, undodgeable CC and symbols! Can even get stealth from trapper runes! OP OP OP right?

Also the sad fact is many classes have most of that stuff, yes in a singular build too but they also have other things which make up for what they don’t have, how many classes have additional endurance regeneration outside of vigor? How many classes have better sustained healing? How many blocks does the mesmer have vs other classes? I can tell you right now their shield has one of the lowest block up times in the game.

Virtues and symbols? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with virtues and symbols, at all. Worst counter-argument ever.

Here's the point: Stealth is problematic in any PVP game. Invulnerability is problematic in any PVP game. Creating duplicates of yourself is EXTREMELY problematic in any PVP game. Other games that have included "clone army" characters inevitably see them nerfed to oblivion (or take over the meta) because clones are inherently overpowered against other humans.

LMAO. Just pay attention. Not that hard to see the real Mesmer.

[CaldaRaric.6305]

The nerfs to phantasms damage were warranted. The nerf to defense? Why? The problem with Chrono was that it could do both offense and defense very well. Now they just nerfed both for the sake of it. Mesmer is not easy to play at a good skill level. People who say bunker Chrono is easy either have not played the class or are gods at PvP. Everyone reading this is the former.

1 second stability? Really? While classes like Holo have perma stab and deal massive damage while 1%-100% healing instantly. But whatever, cuz Mesmer.

[mortrialus.3062]

@CaldaRaric.6305 said:The nerfs to phantasms damage were warranted. The nerf to defense? Why? The problem with Chrono was that it could do both offense and defense very well. Now they just nerfed both for the sake of it. Mesmer is not easy to play at a good skill level. People who say bunker Chrono is easy either have not played the class or are gods at PvP. Everyone reading this is the former.

1 second stability? Really? While classes like Holo have perma stab and deal massive damage while 1%-100% healing instantly. But whatever, cuz Mesmer.

With Chronophantasma, Illusionary Defense, and Staff+Chaos traitline it was permanent protection uptime with 25% additional damage reduction on top of it. On top of Paladin Amulet. It was nuts.

[Sampson.2403]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:C A R R I O N I N E P T I T U D E I S B A C K B O I S G E T Y O U R C L E A N S E S R E A D Y

Carrion never left! Representing!

[BeLZedaR.4790]

@apharma.3741 said:Condi mirage, people will not be happy till they don’t have to think to beat a mesmer.

I think you quite misunderstand the situation here. I want THE MESMER to need to think to beat ME. Right now they just need to fucking exist. Chrono is now finally where it should be for a braindead build, it’s time for a mirage nerf.

P.S and scourge nerf because it’s also just as braindead and still op.