[Video] Power Mirage outnumbered WvW Roaming -No Downstate Event

[bq pd.2148]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:What are they waiting for the nerf of that class? I mean, one of the best burst in pvp with the most survability while being the most forgiving with the best passive defense.

my build avoids every broken or easy live stuff on purpose, not a single passive, not forgoving at all, no stunbreak on dodge trait, no inspi or chaosline carry, not even for oneshot aiming dmg mulitplier. its a tactical tool needs to be played with an eye for animations because you need to Interrupt keyskills, you need to do way more to get ppl down than the standard gs2 burst combo. im a pure challenge player, i would never use a build that carries my kitten. when you have problems to kill this build on anything else than a no retri rev or a staff zerk ele than its a l2p issue. sry to say it that hard but im tired of getting flamed for playing mesmer even tho the build i use is not lame or op at all and that on purpose. anyway thx for watching still.

You play a class that carries your kitten. Literally the entire concept of Mirage is broken and way over the top in ANY build.

wow so many good arguments oO im convinced!

I really dont need any arguments on this matter- Mesmer since its rework and especially Mirage is so OP that its banned even in tournaments. Posting any "Outnumbered" Videos and complain if people critisize you for playing the most broken class in the history of GW2 speaks for itself.

Either you are a good player, or you play mesmer. Pick one.

picking the right build for the right task is a skill many people in WvW still lack. he could aswell roam on staff glass ele and make a video of it, but then you will just see noobs and people that fail hard, because the build is not suited for that. if you want to fight outnumbered against people that are not noobs you need a strong build. mirage is indeed strong but you exaggerate alot, bad mirages die as fast as on any other build without passives.as for your last point either a good player or playing mesmer - a good player will first select a build with the highest potential for the task or close to it, then try to achieve it. if the best build doesnt require any skill, a good player will still play it. because being the better player doesnt make you win fights if you use a trash build. if you dont utilize your skill, doesnt mean you have no skill.and before you ask, no i do not pvp/wvw on a mesmer. i play thief, cause thief is stronger in solo roaming WvW - allways was.

[Specialka.7290]

Thief is stronger but requires more skill to be the best because the skill ceiling is far higher currently than any other class.

[bq pd.2148]

@Specialka.7290 said:Thief is stronger but requires more skill to be the best because the skill ceiling is far higher currently than any other class.

i can upload a video of some fights from the event after the event, tho with worse music (i am really not good at music choice, probably the last reason why i dont have any public videos so far). i highly doubt you would tell me i need more skill for that, at least my opponents keep telling me that it requires 0 skills and is abolutely OP. what jazz does in his videos is alot harder then what i do. apart from his opening burst wich often doesnt kill he really lacks the option for sustained damage compare to thief. on thief i lack 2 things compared to mesmer, AoE pressure and defense while attacking. but in return i can simply pick one , stealth / move little and pick the next. the mesmer needs to either full disengage or keep fighting wich is alot harder the more opponents you got. against one single opponent mesmer might be little better depending on opponent, but mostly you will have more then one single opponent and each added opponent makes thief better in that situations as altho they are together you kind of fight many 1 vs 1 fights in a row if your burst is high enough while mesmer has allways the pressure of all opponents on him.

[mulzi.8273]

The only class in the game that has clones+stealth + evades + teleport + one-shot ability + cc + utility + disengage/reseting and does not need to sacrifce much, if anything to get all that at once. Yes, all classes have some of those, but they have to sacrfice some areas to get others, unlike the mesmer.

yes, other classes have cheese tactics. And you could roam outnumbered on any class and get some kills. But playing the other classes roaming requires alot more skill. With the exception of thief, once you engage in a fight and are outnumbered on any other class, its all about skill, as you do not have the disengage/stealth/clones/evades/teleports/etc to reset/get away/setup the next cheese shot. And thief may have disengage capability, but no where near the survivablility. To win outnumbered on any other class requires skill to survive it. A great thief will be a god of course, as would any class. But any new inexperienced player can pick up mesmer and start roaming and do a heck of alot better than any other class. thats why people say the class carries the player and why they disrespect a mesmer players 'skill'.

There is a reason tournaments banned the entire class.

[Silinsar.6298]

Often the difficulty of a fight depends on what you fight against. If your opponent doesn't have a build suited to fight you all you have to do is some routines and you can beat them quite easily. Mesmer (and especially Mirage) has a few things that can feel very overpowering in that regard.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Mirage is broken, requires no skill or that the OP isn't a good player, just pointing out some aspects of why the class might be seen as "cheap" (cheesy or whatever) for smallscale:

• Mirage Cloak: Much better than a normal dodge. It basically makes dodge an investment that is always good for you. A dodge on any other class is also a automatic self daze, interrupting you and denying you the opportunity to do anything (other than instants / procs) while locking you in a specific movement. Mirage cloak even improves your damage (ambush attack) and grants additional effects (mobility, CC, conds). It's a dodge that can force an enemy dodge. It can also cover the casting of important skills, filling any holes in the Mesmer's defense (e.g. when casting Mantra or heal). It's also a longer iframe than other dodges. Combine this with Desert Distortion and some skills that grant Distortion and you get longer, more frequent dodges and more high-profile (dodge-worthy) attacks than your enemy has dodges without using one weapon skill. With Evasive Mirror... well, try fighting a Mirage with that trait on a build that relies on projectiles. €: Forgot to mention you can also use it while stunned (without EM) and get your dodge. Which pretty much makes any offensive CC obsolete, because you can't use it vs Mirages to secure hits.
• Jaunt: this skill makes it very hard for any melee to stick to the Mesmer. The head start with the 3 charges gives Mesmers plenty time to wear down their enemies from long / medium range before being slowed down by the cool down.
• Shatters (now with the inbuilt "shatter on yourself"): on demand damage, interrupt or invuln whenever you need it. With traits also blind and/or boon removal. Instant. Yes, one can dodge a huge clone burst setup but you can negate and retaliate attacks with them pretty easily.
• Interrupts: traited they become nearly a no-brainer. Yes, using them to their full potential requires reaction and you reading your enemy. But especially interrupt Mes doesn't have to care about that in most cases. Just interrupt something and you'll either bait a stunbreak from your enemy that has probably a much higher CD than your CC or you get a damage setup. Instant, 1200 range (Mantra) interrupts aren't hard to hit. Sword ambush skills makes it hard do punish any mirage after they've used their dodge and is just... very frequent. And even if you run out of those options you still got Diversion. Power block is crazy good when you manage to get interrupts on just a few skills (again doesn't necessarily matter on what, if the skill was worth using for combat, it's probably a skill that will be missed a lot in the next 15 seconds). Also, the combination of CC and boon removal is always strong, simply because you can negate the countermeasures to your playstyle by yourself.
• Stealth: probably the least problematic thing (considering mes doesn't stealth that much) but it still serves as a defensive cover-up for times where you have to refill endurance / wait for CDs, allows you to attack untelegraphed and is generally disliked.

So what makes Mesmers (mainly Mirage) so frustrating to fight against is that they are hard to attack / counter-pressure (a lot of on demand iframes, ports, stealth, little time where you can reliably attack), their stuff is hard to counter (due to being frequent, instant and/or little telegraphed) and they can negate a lot of the few things you could do against them. Which is probably also why there isn't really any counter to Mirage when it comes to WvW roaming (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mirages I talked to couldn't tell me one). When you lose to a Mirage you feel like you could've done nothing better to beat them. When you win you feel like it was due to their mistakes, not your skill.

@"Jazz.4639"It's a strong build and you play it well.

[Jinks.2057]

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Specialka.7290 said:What are they waiting for the nerf of that class? I mean, one of the best burst in pvp with the most survability while being the most forgiving with the best passive defense.

my build avoids every broken or easy live stuff on purpose, not a single passive, not forgoving at all, no stunbreak on dodge trait, no inspi or chaosline carry, not even for oneshot aiming dmg mulitplier. its a tactical tool needs to be played with an eye for animations because you need to Interrupt keyskills, you need to do way more to get ppl down than the standard gs2 burst combo. im a pure challenge player, i would never use a build that carries my kitten. when you have problems to kill this build on anything else than a no retri rev or a staff zerk ele than its a l2p issue. sry to say it that hard but im tired of getting flamed for playing mesmer even tho the build i use is not lame or op at all and that on purpose. anyway thx for watching still.

You use mantra of distraction with confounding suggestions. Your entire gameplay revolves around stealth abuse and jaunting away to abuse the infinite terrain in WvW.

I'm sorry if you wanted to play a challenge Mirage is not it in any shape or form.

[Turk.5460]

@Nikola.3841 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Dralor.3701" said:You are crazy if you think balance in DAoC was worse than GW2. (ToA aside) Yes you needed certain healers in every group but there was plenty of viable comps. People also had no idea what they were doing, much less “meta” building.

LOL - 40 seconds of mesmerize or equal time spent rooted sure was balanced. Did a mage-class 1hit your mez'd team with PBAoE? So much fun that was, right? How about a train of melee that just had a /stick macro and hit another team one by one? It looked dumb and it felt dumb, but hey, that's how that game played. There were no large-scale battles with forces clashing together, it was "whose bard/healer/sorc could get their AoE mez off first so their team could fight unresponsive players." And on the INCREDIBLY RARE occasions where it wasn't a melee or pbae train melting one person at a time, it was just healers spamming their group heals as fast as they could. Don't forget the heals that actually did the work

for you

(the bucket heals).

And solo roaming was almost non-existent. It was archers vs. assassins with an occasional Skald, Friar, or Warden...DAoC was a PvE focused game that marketed RvR well.

Was it fun? Oh absolutely, there was nothing else like it at the time! But it is incredibly out-dated and looking back it's easy to see how unbalanced it really was and how stale it got. Is it more fun than GW2 now? No, the game mechanics feel like you have to control your character through a vat of melted cheese and molasses. Anyone who thinks it is

currently

more fun than GW2 is delusional.

It was (in theory) almost 2 minutes of mez or root, and yet CC in that game was LESS annoying than here in GW2...you had classes that could demezz, you had resistances of all kinds that reduced duration, it would break on damage, and you had equally long immunity after that...if CC was your problem in DAOC, you were either new to game, or bad player or played in bad groups. Battles on my server were also far bigger than I ever saw in GW2...remember, RVR area cap was 3000 players across all zones...can GW2 handle 3000 players on 4 maps?

8vs8 scene in DAOC was as good as PVP can be, didn't find anything remotely as fun

Regarding soloing in DAOC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=daoc+solo

returns 34000 videos

Then why are you playing GW2 if you're going to fanboy over a has-been game that is far past it's time? Is it perhaps because you know you remember it wrong? Because you certainly are remembering the populations wrong. On the best days during the most prime of times during the games most popular years the top servers had barely 2000 people logged in. How many of those people do you think were in RvR? Here's a hint: not even a fraction of what you will claim.

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard and holo, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from. and no just random interrupt of something will never be enough to be successfull with this build, at least not vs. semi decent and above player. you need to Interrupt keyskills (high dmg, long cc skills, stomps, rezzes, gapcloser etc), you need to peel for teammates etc. otherwise you will be more impactfull with any other power build mesmer has.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). it needs to use dodges offensively to make enoug dmg, it cant just chain defskills pure defensive like a oneshot bot mirage can. maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core needs more skill to get kills it just has less options and needs to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

[Nikola.3841]

@Turk.5460 said:

Then why are you playing GW2 if you're going to fanboy over a has-been game that is far past it's time? Is it perhaps because you know you remember it wrong? Because you certainly are remembering the populations wrong. On the best days during the most prime of times during the games most popular years the top servers had barely 2000 people logged in. How many of those people do you think were in RvR? Here's a hint: not even a fraction of what you will claim.

Looks like you have problem with understanding what I wrote so I'll try to type slower:

1. I said that I play GW2 because most of friends left DAOC...unlike GW2 where I don't need community at all, DAOC was heavily dependant on community
2. I said 3000 was CAP, of course not all went to RVR, although during relic raids (while it still mattered) mostly everyone would go to RvR zone, evensub level 50 people. Also, there was often queue to log because server was full (granted, only on few most populated servers, but still...)

[bq pd.2148]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:Thief is stronger but requires more skill to be the best because the skill ceiling is far higher currently than any other class.

i can upload a video of some fights from the event after the event, tho with worse music (i am really not good at music choice, probably the last reason why i dont have any public videos so far). i highly doubt you would tell me i need more skill for that, at least my opponents keep telling me that it requires 0 skills and is abolutely OP. what jazz does in his videos is alot harder then what i do. apart from his opening burst wich often doesnt kill he really lacks the option for sustained damage compare to thief. on thief i lack 2 things compared to mesmer, AoE pressure and defense while attacking. but in return i can simply pick one , stealth / move little and pick the next. the mesmer needs to either full disengage or keep fighting wich is alot harder the more opponents you got. against one single opponent mesmer might be little better depending on opponent, but mostly you will have more then one single opponent and each added opponent makes thief better in that situations as altho they are together you kind of fight many 1 vs 1 fights in a row if your burst is high enough while mesmer has allways the pressure of all opponents on him.

As someone who mained Daredevil WvW for about 2 years and started to play mirage not too long ago (I miss the extra camera stealth from D/P), Thief still dominates in damage, reset ability and stealth. I jump on my DrD from time to time. My mirage build (where I dont use EM or sword or mantras) is better when outnumbered, but thats it. 1v1 Daredevil beats mirage (hard counters mirage). Spellbreaker also does very well vs mirage as well as Scourge ( which the barrier stacking alone is disgusting, but thats another topic). Mirage def isnt as "OP" as people seem to misuse the term a lot around here.

maybe i should have been more specific i did stick to profession names instead of elite specs. a normal daredevil is from the way they control an outnumbered fight alot like a mirage but the mirage has better tools for it so it is better here. since shortly after HoT i play my thief alot more stealthed based. so i constanty pop in and out and sometimes camp a little stealth if i feel like it or in ridiculous situations (for example earlier today there were like 10 opponents and 3 of them thieves stacking on an anti stealth trap open field after i killed one) the frequent stealth and the targetbreaks that come with it are extremly strong against the average WvW skill level. many need multiple seconds till they react to a thief popping out of stealth, till then you can already go back into stealth. thats basically dazing the player not the character and without targetlimit. this way of fighting can be done to some extend maybe with some PU builds but thief is alot better in this and no other class can do that. as we got more damage now with deadeye since PoF this playstyle got buffed even more, still not many play like that a few more this week cause of the event but with recent AA damage nerfs maybe the number of thieves playing like this will increase or they will switch to another class to be more efficient.anyway this thread is not about thieves, just wanted to clarify because i could let the statement that thief is harder to play stand there - that highly depends on build and in WvW roaming wich is mainly ganking, a d/p+ rifle deadeye is IMO the strongest thief build for ganking and not hard to play in terms of reaction and resource management. you only need positioning, correct target choice and the right timing to burst it down.

[Dralor.3701]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Nikola.3841 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Dralor.3701" said:You are crazy if you think balance in DAoC was worse than GW2. (ToA aside) Yes you needed certain healers in every group but there was plenty of viable comps. People also had no idea what they were doing, much less “meta” building.

LOL - 40 seconds of mesmerize or equal time spent rooted sure was balanced. Did a mage-class 1hit your mez'd team with PBAoE? So much fun that was, right? How about a train of melee that just had a /stick macro and hit another team one by one? It looked dumb and it felt dumb, but hey, that's how that game played. There were no large-scale battles with forces clashing together, it was "whose bard/healer/sorc could get their AoE mez off first so their team could fight unresponsive players." And on the INCREDIBLY RARE occasions where it wasn't a melee or pbae train melting one person at a time, it was just healers spamming their group heals as fast as they could. Don't forget the heals that actually did the work

for you

(the bucket heals).

And solo roaming was almost non-existent. It was archers vs. assassins with an occasional Skald, Friar, or Warden...DAoC was a PvE focused game that marketed RvR well.

Was it fun? Oh absolutely, there was nothing else like it at the time! But it is incredibly out-dated and looking back it's easy to see how unbalanced it really was and how stale it got. Is it more fun than GW2 now? No, the game mechanics feel like you have to control your character through a vat of melted cheese and molasses. Anyone who thinks it is

currently

more fun than GW2 is delusional.

It was (in theory) almost 2 minutes of mez or root, and yet CC in that game was LESS annoying than here in GW2...you had classes that could demezz, you had resistances of all kinds that reduced duration, it would break on damage, and you had equally long immunity after that...if CC was your problem in DAOC, you were either new to game, or bad player or played in bad groups. Battles on my server were also far bigger than I ever saw in GW2...remember, RVR area cap was 3000 players across all zones...can GW2 handle 3000 players on 4 maps?

8vs8 scene in DAOC was as good as PVP can be, didn't find anything remotely as fun

Regarding soloing in DAOC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=daoc+solo

returns 34000 videos

Then why are you playing GW2 if you're going to fanboy over a has-been game that is far past it's time? Is it perhaps because you know you remember it wrong? Because you certainly are remembering the populations wrong. On the

best

days during the

most prime of times

during the games

most popular years

the top servers had barely 2000 people logged in. How many of those people do you think were in RvR? Here's a hint: not even a fraction of what you will claim.

Same reason I don’t play a lot of old and wonderful games, they look like garbage. Anyway this is totally off topic.

Also a GW2 fanboy but balance is and has often been a joke, I don’t know if any other company that balances so infrequently.

[Nikola.3841]

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Nikola.3841 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:You are crazy if you think balance in DAoC was worse than GW2. (ToA aside) Yes you needed certain healers in every group but there was plenty of viable comps. People also had no idea what they were doing, much less “meta” building.

LOL - 40 seconds of mesmerize or equal time spent rooted sure was balanced. Did a mage-class 1hit your mez'd team with PBAoE? So much fun that was, right? How about a train of melee that just had a /stick macro and hit another team one by one? It looked dumb and it felt dumb, but hey, that's how that game played. There were no large-scale battles with forces clashing together, it was "whose bard/healer/sorc could get their AoE mez off first so their team could fight unresponsive players." And on the INCREDIBLY RARE occasions where it wasn't a melee or pbae train melting one person at a time, it was just healers spamming their group heals as fast as they could. Don't forget the heals that actually did the work

for you

(the bucket heals).

And solo roaming was almost non-existent. It was archers vs. assassins with an occasional Skald, Friar, or Warden...DAoC was a PvE focused game that marketed RvR well.

Was it fun? Oh absolutely, there was nothing else like it at the time! But it is incredibly out-dated and looking back it's easy to see how unbalanced it really was and how stale it got. Is it more fun than GW2 now? No, the game mechanics feel like you have to control your character through a vat of melted cheese and molasses. Anyone who thinks it is

currently

more fun than GW2 is delusional.

It was (in theory) almost 2 minutes of mez or root, and yet CC in that game was LESS annoying than here in GW2...you had classes that could demezz, you had resistances of all kinds that reduced duration, it would break on damage, and you had equally long immunity after that...if CC was your problem in DAOC, you were either new to game, or bad player or played in bad groups. Battles on my server were also far bigger than I ever saw in GW2...remember, RVR area cap was 3000 players across all zones...can GW2 handle 3000 players on 4 maps?

8vs8 scene in DAOC was as good as PVP can be, didn't find anything remotely as fun

Regarding soloing in DAOC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=daoc+solo

returns 34000 videos

Then why are you playing GW2 if you're going to fanboy over a has-been game that is far past it's time? Is it perhaps because you know you remember it wrong? Because you certainly are remembering the populations wrong. On the

best

days during the

most prime of times

during the games

most popular years

the top servers had barely 2000 people logged in. How many of those people do you think were in RvR? Here's a hint: not even a fraction of what you will claim.

Same reason I don’t play a lot of old and wonderful games, they look like garbage. Anyway this is totally off topic.

Also a GW2 fanboy but balance is and has often been a joke, I don’t know if any other company that balances so infrequently.

I honestly think that its very hard to balance for small scale, due to way how game is designed, mostly with zerg fights in mindSo I find most of small scale fight videos in gw2 boringMythic killed DAOC with their always OP-ed expansion classes, as if they wanted you to buy expansion, while they alreadyhad nerfs ready once everyone buys it and whining becomes unbearable :)

[Jinks.2057]

@"Jazz.4639" said:sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical Plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core need more skill to get kills it just has less options and need to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

So your stance is an instant ranged stun that sets up your burst isn't a carry and it takes more skill to play Mirage then Core Power Shatter Mesmer.

Ok mate have a nice day

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical Plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core need more skill to get kills it just has less options and need to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

So your stance is an instant ranged stun that sets up your burst isn't a carry and it takes more skill to play Mirage then Core Power Shatter Mesmer.

Ok mate have a nice day

no semi good mesmer would ever need the dazemantra to set up a blink gs2 teleport burst, i use it as a support tool because it has way more options and uses for the team than a selfish decoy. you have a stun every 15 secs, the stun comes in 95% of the time when im in melee anyway and often from f3 or a clone or my own ambush.i explained pretty well why a mirage with more options needs more skill to play this build on max lvl, when you dont understand it, sry. i mean i play core form time to time and in every meta, its not that i talk about something i dont know. its harder to win a fight with it because you maybe run out of cds and options during a fight but its not harder due to a higher skill need, its just harder due to less options for skillfull plays.

[Jinks.2057]

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical Plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core need more skill to get kills it just has less options and need to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

So your stance is an instant ranged stun that sets up your burst isn't a carry and it takes more skill to play Mirage then Core Power Shatter Mesmer.

Ok mate have a nice day

no semi good mesmer would ever need the dazemantra to set up a blink gs2 teleport burst, i use it as a support tool because it has way more options and uses for the team than a selfish decoy. you have a stun every 15 secs, the stun comes in 95% of the time when im in melee anyway and often from f3 or a clone or my own ambush.i explained pretty well why a mirage with more options needs more skill to play this build on max lvl, when you dont understand it, sry. i mean i play core form time to time and in every meta, its not that i talk about something i dont know. its harder to win a fight with it because you maybe run out of cds and options during a fight but its not harder due to a higher skill need, its just harder due to less options for skillfull plays.

LOL ok w/e you say man.

If you want to justify yourself as a "challenge only" player then you should prolly play a different class

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical Plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core need more skill to get kills it just has less options and need to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

So your stance is an instant ranged stun that sets up your burst isn't a carry and it takes more skill to play Mirage then Core Power Shatter Mesmer.

Ok mate have a nice day

no semi good mesmer would ever need the dazemantra to set up a blink gs2 teleport burst, i use it as a support tool because it has way more options and uses for the team than a selfish decoy. you have a stun every 15 secs, the stun comes in 95% of the time when im in melee anyway and often from f3 or a clone or my own ambush.i explained pretty well why a mirage with more options needs more skill to play this build on max lvl, when you dont understand it, sry. i mean i play core form time to time and in every meta, its not that i talk about something i dont know. its harder to win a fight with it because you maybe run out of cds and options during a fight but its not harder due to a higher skill need, its just harder due to less options for skillfull plays.

LOL ok w/e you say man.

If you want to justify yourself as a "challenge only" player then you should prolly play a different class

one of the ppl make you think, that you could have saved the time for writing a wall of text with arguments for something more usefull lol, i play all classes btw and i know why i play as main what i play.

[Jinks.2057]

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:sry i cant reply to all of these also i rly dont wanna start a big balance discussion about all classes and having a dispute over 20 sides. i never claimed my build is weak or totally up, i just say its challenging and dont carry and its not op. crying about confounding suggestion in 2k18 with 15sec icd is a joke right? i play an interrrupt build and dont aim for oneshots out of stealth i rly would not even need that stun every 15secs because a daze is enough to interrrupt something. also i dont abuse stealth since i dont stealth inc on ppl, they all saw me coming before i use the first stealth. this is not even a wvw-roaming or duelling build, i made it for pvp as a burst-support hybrid with max mobility, i play it with portal instead signet of midnight, so only one stealth and the fights look the same. its not meta for some reasons. it barely has any good matchups. it gets hardcountered by any kind of thief, by warrior, by dh, it loses to soulbeast, has a hard time vs every type of meditation guard, shouldnt be able to kill a druid even after their nerfs and cant kill sword bunker weaver etc. the only rly good matchups it has is rev (even there you can lose when you get hit twice) when he is not using reti-traitline and a staff ele (what lose pretty much to everything). all other is 50% winchance or worse.

as a challenge player i dont need to handicap myself down to playing something completely useless. i always mix up skill ceiling and skill floor and i dont wanna start a discussion about how hard other classes are to play compared to my build so i say it with a comparision between core, chrono and mirage mesmer (and copy it from another thread i already had this discussion) . let me say it like this:

mirage and also chrono give you more options to outplay enemies, more options for tactical Plays than a core mesmer. that makes it harder not easier to play these builds on max lvl. ofc getting more options makes a build somehow stronger. the question is how much skill you need to use these options to answer the questions if it is op or not. getting more options is not per se op or lame.or from another pov: i also dont think that limiting yourself with for example only playing one weaponset or only mainhand weapons (aside from some trolling condithiefbuilds can be played only with utilites muha) dont make it more skillfull. its just a senseless self limitation giving you less options for skillfull plays. and that is how i see the upgrade between a core shatter burst build and chrono/mirage. i have way more fun with mirage without having the feeling to be carried, at least not compared to everything else that is running around. the mirage stuff is all active gameplay you need skill for it to get the reward from.a bad mirage is an easier kill than a bad core pu mesmer for example. also is mirage harder to play good than a core pu mes and a good core pu mes also has a good chance to kill my build. I played core mes (domi, duel, illusion so no inspi or chaosline carry) vs all pof and hot specs for some vids, i didnt have any more problems to kill the same ppl with the same skill lvl i kill with mirage but you are more limited to spam stealth and excercise the gs2 burst shatter over and over (same with chrono just with bit more variations and you need a good use of f5 to play chrono perfect). sure you can play mirage like a core burst bot just with some noobsaver added like the stunbreak on dodge and more dodgeuptime (thats also how most power mesmer playing mirage sadly) but that is not my build (exactly for that reason, my build is maximum based on mirage mechanics except the one that is broken-means stunbreakdodge). maybe its just about taste but i get bored when playing core mes or chrono oneshot bot and i dont have the feeling core need more skill to get kills it just has less options and need to exercise the same combo over and over for the same result.

anyway, thx all for watching and im glad at least few of you could enjoy the vid (and maybe the music, hm hm hmmmm???). i understand the mesmer hate due to the rly op and annoying to fight builds mesmer/ mirage has atm but not all builds are op and ez to play. and i dotn think i deserve any hate for the build i play, otherwise i just switch to a meta mesmer build and have an muuuuuuuuch easier time when i get flamed anyway.

So your stance is an instant ranged stun that sets up your burst isn't a carry and it takes more skill to play Mirage then Core Power Shatter Mesmer.

Ok mate have a nice day

no semi good mesmer would ever need the dazemantra to set up a blink gs2 teleport burst, i use it as a support tool because it has way more options and uses for the team than a selfish decoy. you have a stun every 15 secs, the stun comes in 95% of the time when im in melee anyway and often from f3 or a clone or my own ambush.i explained pretty well why a mirage with more options needs more skill to play this build on max lvl, when you dont understand it, sry. i mean i play core form time to time and in every meta, its not that i talk about something i dont know. its harder to win a fight with it because you maybe run out of cds and options during a fight but its not harder due to a higher skill need, its just harder due to less options for skillfull plays.

LOL ok w/e you say man.

If you want to justify yourself as a "challenge only" player then you should prolly play a different class

one of the ppl make you think, that you could have saved the time for writing a wall of text with arguments for something more usefull lol, i play all classes btw and i know why i play as main what i play.

I originally stated that

[Curunen.8729]

Just want to add my 2p that try and play full glass mirage without EM (crucial point - and thus also minimal condi cleanse) in outnumbered situations and see how long you can last/be successful when running into usual roaming "cheese" (including condi mirage etc). Not to mention FO is hardly a great heal (pretty much only hp regain aside from regen which is pathetic without healing power anyway), only 2 stealths on 30s cd each so minimal detargeting (compared with axe mirage using Illusionary Ambush and stealth which is much harder to keep target on), among other things.

Yes it's not super hardmode of core interrupt mesmer (RIP), but equally it's hardly brainless or trivial to play.

The critical nerf call here would be Mirage Thrust, which I anticipate being tweaked in a future patch anyway.

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

thx @Curunen.8729 :)you mean domi duel illusion interrupt? i played that pre hot too, not with chaos tho then it was bit cheesy. the good old focus times wallowi also played chrono as interrupt support burst hybrid pre pof (with shield then), worked very well too, even tho it was absolutely not viable back then. compared to chrono you switch some more utilites (double moa/grav.well) for mobility when going to mirage but its more or less the same build.

[Curunen.8729]

Yeah Dom/Duel/Illusion or Chaos (CI), depending on preference. CI + PB is funny though, but that build has pretty much zero cleanse given usual utilites of blink/MoD/stealth, and is ridiculously fragile. xD

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@Curunen.8729 said:Yeah Dom/Duel/Illusion or Chaos (CI), depending on preference. CI + PB is funny though, but that build has pretty much zero cleanse given usual utilites of blink/MoD/stealth, and is ridiculously fragile. xD

hehe ye i mean every core mes was used to have zero cleanse (except the inspiration user ofc), the first months after hot release i didnt need to use the healwell for condiremove once, i was so used to avoid the condi-application in the first place. the perma condispam got more with the time but having healwell and torch or jaunt and torch still feels like extrem luxury for me :)

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

AH Jaunt...not th ebest cleanse by far, however its the best that I run. I do a DPS GS/Axe+torch. I love the axe teleport (w at least 2 clones) into shatter. I also dont run EM so i typically need to eat 80% of the condis I take (hense why I took the axe...more mobility...the only defense I have vs condi builds).

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 haha ye jaunt not the best but muuuuch better than nothing (like most core mes builds). oh axe, the hate you get with axe and its very short cd detarget skill must be insane lol. i feel ya! <3

[Ansau.7326]

What I find very funny is how people always expect mesmer players to play fairly without using cheesy gimmicks, and yet every single other profession is only good when exploiting cheesy mechanics:

• Warrior = Insane base stats, passive healing and high time of invulnerability.
• Guardian = Passive blocks, untraceable attacks (traps), insane healing.
• Rev = Damage to healing conversion, lots of passive modifiers.
• Thief = Insane skill spammability, absurd mobility, endless evades and lots of unavoidable attacks.
• Ranger = High damage from pets while being tanky, evades built in AA, insane range + high damage.
• Engi = Lot of skills with very low CD, high access to invis, invulnerabilities and high healing, lots of passive procs.
• Necro = Insane health pool, insane AoE coverage, insane condi pressure.
• Ele = Absurd amount of skill availability and benefits from skill spamming, insane healing, lot of invuls.

Let's face it, every single profession is only good when cheesy mechanics carrying the player are involved. But for whatever reason only mesmers are forced to play "legally" and are automatically blamed and bullied when their builds aren't puritan...

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@"Jazz.4639" said:@Bigpapasmurf.5623 haha ye jaunt not the best but muuuuch better than nothing (like most core mes builds). oh axe, the hate you get with axe and its very short cd detarget skill must be insane lol. i feel ya! <3

I run a slightly unique build. Axe sucks when you need to stay ranged (when ya swap to it for torch stealth...then you are stuck for 10s in axe), however when you need to use axe, its awesome. Get 3 axe clones up (torch 5 can help with this) and use Axe 3, which causes all clones to get super close to target, then BOOM F1...if you do it fast/fluid enough, they rarely see it someing and all clones will hit as they are super close to the target.

I call it my Axe Nuke. Doesnt always work, but when it does...wow

Axe 3 helps for a small teleport as well. I used to run condi before nerf. Was hard to make it work after but I loved axe sooooo much. Made my build to allow me to keep it and still have fun. Its not optimal, but its fun and it typically works.

Edit: I hate that darn mantra stun lock,lol. I can usually (about 60-70%) dodge the burst but if that mantra is up, im boned lol. (STUN MANTRA OP) :p