why is condi burst still a thing

[Meteor.3720]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

[Vieux P.1238]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

[Meteor.3720]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

[Vieux P.1238]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

[Meteor.3720]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

[Sampson.2403]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

I would argue that you do need to land key skills. Torch 4 and 5.

[Math.5123]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

They have passive invis ?

[Vieux P.1238]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

So now all of a sudden there's a skill floor to playing mirage. No longer lazy play as you furiously accuse before. Nice way to change your toon. & you said to, Mirage has no passives. & if we get stunned, mirage get's stun break. Wow. No other classes can claim that. Only mirage. Dodges as well... only mirage has dodges. You say we have lots of disengage. We have 2 that's link on our dodges yes thq kind sir.

[mortrialus.3062]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

[Vieux P.1238]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

They have passive invis ?

That is true. Desperate decoy minor trait is a passive not worth taking. I mean with all them telegraph skill's that still hit's you like a truck when going stealth. But we wer talking about mirage passives. Where there's none.

[DragonFury.6243]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

[mortrialus.3062]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

[Meteor.3720]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

So now all of a sudden there's a skill floor to playing mirage. No longer lazy play as you furiously accuse before. Nice way to change your toon.

It can be a lazy class with a skill floor. It's just incredibly easy and forgiving to play no matter how trash you are, but it can still be played well. Doesn't mean it's not a lazy profession.

& you said to, Mirage has no passives. & if we get stunned, mirage get's stun break. Wow. No other classes can claim that.

No other class can claim stunbreak on dodge.

Only mirage. Dodges as well... only mirage has dodges.

But mirage dodge is overtuned with the ability to cast skills and actions mid dodge, get ambush attacks, and mirage has high vigor uptime.

You say we have lots of disengage. We have 2 that's link on our dodges yes thq kind sir.

Sword ambush, blind, portal, jaunt, torch stealth, signet of midnight/ decoy. Yes. Only 2 disengage.

[Math.5123]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

So now all of a sudden there's a skill floor to playing mirage. No longer lazy play as you furiously accuse before. Nice way to change your toon. & you said to, Mirage has no passives. & if we get stunned, mirage get's stun break. Wow. No other classes can claim that. Only mirage. Dodges as well... only mirage has dodges. You say we have lots of disengage. We have 2 that's link on our dodges yes thq kind sir.

Mirage is the only class that can dodge while stunned, and even break a stun with a mere dodge.Mirage can easily disengage with dodge + sword ambush even after eating a cc. No other class has that luxory. They can jaunt and phase retreat while stunned if they don't want to waste endurance. I'm not going to take blink into account as that's a stunbreak utility.

On top of being able to jaunt, dodge or phase retreat out of stuns. They also have distortion. If by some miracle all the previous mentioned abilities are on cooldown, a simple F1 through F3(4) blinds. No cast time, no counterplay, no ICD.

No other class had nearly this much access to active defense. Although I guess spellbreaker comes kind of close.Mirage probably has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, but it's also the single most forgiving class of you do fuck up.

[DragonFury.6243]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

[saerni.2584]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

Given that condi is played effectively on only a few builds out of all those available...I’m not sure you’ve established power builds can do “nothing” or are weaker than condi.

You also acknowledge that condi is mitigated by cleanse and resistance (and minus duration traits/runes) but discount it based on the fact you can’t stop a condi build from killing you, which is entirely the point. Otherwise, condi wouldn’t be viable.

You also treat condi as a problem solely based on mirage and scourge while claims of a 35k condi thief burst are...frankly wrong unless you redefine busy to mean “landing all attacks without the target cleansing for over 15 seconds.” I guarantee that anyone who stands there for that long and doesn’t use mitigation will die regardless of being damaged from condi or power.

[DragonFury.6243]

@saerni.2584 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

Given that condi is played effectively on only a few builds out of all those available...I’m not sure you’ve established power builds can do “nothing” or are weaker than condi.

You also acknowledge that condi is mitigated by cleanse and resistance (and minus duration traits/runes) but discount it based on the fact you can’t stop a condi build from killing you, which is entirely the point. Otherwise, condi wouldn’t be viable.

You also treat condi as a problem solely based on mirage and scourge while claims of a 35k condi thief burst are...frankly wrong unless you redefine busy to mean “landing all attacks without the target cleansing for over 15 seconds.” I guarantee that anyone who stands there for that long and doesn’t use mitigation will die regardless of being damaged from condi or power.

AHH i forget condi teef but you miss my point witch is the application of different condi in less than a 3 sec that why you dont see players complain about firebrand who can do 60k to a profession that dont have any cleansing4+ different condi is just too much specially if they are applied by less than 3 skillsthe application of cripple from scourge and bind from mirage and imob from teef should be remove so the condi cleanse do something in pvpalso in team fight we have shared protection from other team mate but the share condi cleanse is almost none exist in the current metaif i am fighting 1 mirage 1 scourge you will not see me here complain cuz my condi cleanse will give me a chance to survive to either kill the enemy or disengage the fight but if you played pvp yesterday you ll see that is not the situation

but the pvp community know that the amount of condi cleanse in the game is very low that why you see the condi teef also join the pvp nowthat why you see player complain not just mirage but the amount of condi in the match can kill me 10 times before i can cap a point

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

If you're angry about lazy playing and builds that make players think they're* pros, why do you always defend mirage so much? Epitome of bad players carried by class.

Have you actually played mirage to make this kind of remark?

Yes I have.

If you did, like really played it, you would'nt make this kind of remark. Mirage, Chrono, core mesmer is far from a one lazy button mashing class. There's no passives traits like defy pain that proc's on it's own & there is thought to be put on your playing style. You can't say this on most classes. So no, i don't think you have played the class at all.

First, I never mentioned chrono or core mesmer. But yes, chrono is also braindead but at least less effective than it used to be. And it's not all about passive traits, it's about fail safes. Yes, mirage doesn't have passives, but if you get stunned you can stunbreak or still dodge. You have a lot of disengage if you mess up and plenty of ways to avoid being punished for making mistakes.Obviously there is a skill floor and some players play it far better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that mirage is brainless in the sense that you don't need to worry about making mistakes or not landing key skills.

The whole community says so, other than you, ithilwen and epicturtle.

I haven't said anything about whether or not it is skillful. Please don't put words in my mouth. If I say something, it's generally to bring parity or clarification to the usually incoherent ramblings that are indicative of such threads. If you bother to actually read any of my comments I do note that Mirage is overtuned and several core traits need to be looked at and I've never once said that EM was fine or that being able to dodge while stunned is just fine, although since it's unlikely to be changed I'm not going to bother touching on it.

[mortrialus.3062]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

Except even protection doesn't just retroactively negate attacks that correctly landed on you the way just cleansing conditions and resistance does.

Right now the majority of builds you're going to see are power based. Warriors, revs, guardians, rangers, engineers, elementalists (Weaver duelist is kind of a jack of all trades kind of thing) are all running either power builds or support builds (I say support in an "Runs mender amulet and doesn't die" sort of way). Thieves are about a 50/50 split between power and condi in ranked. It's really just mesmers and necros primarily running condition builds and even then there's tons of power chronos and reapers in ranked.

I think when you look at power vs. condition we're in an overall good place right now. In a good meta, we should see a variety of power and condition based builds and that's exactly what we got.

[DragonFury.6243]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

Except even protection doesn't just retroactively negate attacks that correctly landed on you the way just cleansing conditions and resistance does.

Right now the majority of builds you're going to see are power based. Warriors, revs, guardians, rangers, engineers, elementalists (Weaver duelist is kind of a jack of all trades kind of thing) are all running either power builds or support builds (I say support in an "Runs mender amulet and doesn't die" sort of way). Thieves are about a 50/50 split between power and condi in ranked. It's really just mesmers and necros primarily running condition builds and even then there's tons of power chronos and reapers in ranked.

I think when you look at power vs. condition we're in an overall good place right now. In a good meta, we should see a variety of power and condition based builds and that's exactly what we got.

AHHH so you think reaper can kill scourge in pvp the mmr will match a reaper vs scourge the one that can attack 10 players and you still think that the team that have reaper will have a chance then please play reaper for 50 games and see you rank drop to gold 3

[mortrialus.3062]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:thief and mesmer still can condi burst in 1 second kitten why.because the devz saw no one plays teef and mes !!! so they gave them the condi burst and rest professions GTH no one care !!!

No, it was there before & still is. It was 2 patches ago they removed Defensive auto passives on certain classes. In my book, the devs have not done anoth & should remove all passives that procs automatically.

should this include auras, damage fields, and condition ticks?

Not the same as passives that proc's when your under attack or under a certain amount of health. I have no problem with anything that use's a players ability to click on a skill to activate it. But other wise it makes for lazy playing that makes players think there pros. haha!

Oh come off it.. stacking conditions in general is lazy play.

A condi attack is still just an attack that has to land. I really don't see any functional difference between power and condition damage except the flavor in how they're delivered; power being immediate and condition being more but over a longer period of time.

Confusion and torment are supposed to be burstier conditions because the victim themselves is doing most of the legwork into making those conditions do damage. The main problem and outlier is Mesmer Torch's burning. It's absurdly high. Between the two mesmer torch skills, when traited it's like 18k damage over 4 seconds if you land all three pulses of burning. They need to get trimmed or tuned into one stack across like 12 seconds or something.

OMG i hope you enjoy your brainless mirage and i hope you give scourge a try i am sure you ll like it

What's your problem?

my problem is the comparison between power and condicounter play to power is protection witch all core profession have and easy to spam /toughness witch dont do much in SPVPcounter play to condi is resistance and cleansing but with the amount of different condi mirage and scourge do its hard to mitigate plus the application of weakness tell me what power can do in the face of all that

Except even protection doesn't just retroactively negate attacks that correctly landed on you the way just cleansing conditions and resistance does.

Right now the majority of builds you're going to see are power based. Warriors, revs, guardians, rangers, engineers, elementalists (Weaver duelist is kind of a jack of all trades kind of thing) are all running either power builds or support builds (I say support in an "Runs mender amulet and doesn't die" sort of way). Thieves are about a 50/50 split between power and condi in ranked. It's really just mesmers and necros primarily running condition builds and even then there's tons of power chronos and reapers in ranked.

I think when you look at power vs. condition we're in an overall good place right now. In a good meta, we should see a variety of power and condition based builds and that's exactly what we got.

AHHH so you think reaper can kill scourge in pvp the mmr will match a reaper vs scourge the one that can attack 10 players and you still think that the team that have reaper will have a chance then please play reaper for 50 games and see you rank drop to gold 3

You're really bizarrely hostile.

Anyway, Reaper is hard countered by scourge in specific but there's still a lot of people maining reaper in upper platinum. Is scourge a better build? Yeah but reaper is in no way the worst off build in the game. In fact, Reaper's biggest weakness is just the fact that Scourge is it's hard counter and Scourge is meta. If that wasn't the case and it had a reliable way to disengage it would be a top tier build. It's plenty viable.

[UfoCoffee.2084]

The game is the most balanced it's ever been. Maybe change your stubburn builds and add more condi cleanse onto it? Condi thief and mesmer can be annoying but they're one trick ponies. If you dodge or block their burst, they have nothing for like 25 seconds or so.

[babazhook.6805]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:I get what the op's is saying. & Losing some damage output in exchange for condi cleans is not a bad thing. It's called balance. But there are overtuned builds such as SD condi thief that can dish out on any light armor more then 35k condi poison damage on 1 shot. plus everything else. Now that's unbalance. I should put pic's of it make you all grow wide eyed from it.

35k on one shot? Would you care to elaborate how that possible?

Idk... only thing i know is it's a SD jumping in & out thief that drops out tons of condis where i don't have anoth condition clear to clear it up. I got a great pic too. Just to lazy to poste it. Thief is not the only one that does ridiculous amount of damage. Welcom to PoF

Then you are talking about multiple attacks, including dodges, the steal , utilities and the like and calling it ONE SHOT. At 35k it also more then a little likely it involved venom share with thieves guild or other players. In other words you did nothing to mitigate or avoid all of these attacks as they were ongoing.

If I did multiple attacks on you from any power class and you did nothing to try and avoid or mitigate the same you would be just as dead.

The thing which so many seem not to understand is just as you do not rely on your heal to heal all damage from a power attack , you do not rely on a cleanse to clean all the attacks that apply conditions. Just as with power damage incoming you use blocks. , dodges , evades and the like to make sure a given condition attack does not hit in the first place. What I find of great Interest is that If I am on my thief using a p/p unload , the enemy will dodge it or use a block or a reflect to ensure that at leas t some of the damage avoided or reflected yet I can face the same player using a condition build and apply multiple conditions and they just eat the damage.

The same mitigation and avoidance measures work against a number of Condition sources so why not use them?

[Vieux P.1238]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:I get what the op's is saying. & Losing some damage output in exchange for condi cleans is not a bad thing. It's called balance. But there are overtuned builds such as SD condi thief that can dish out on any light armor more then 35k condi poison damage on 1 shot. plus everything else. Now that's unbalance. I should put pic's of it make you all grow wide eyed from it.

35k on one shot? Would you care to elaborate how that possible?

Idk... only thing i know is it's a SD jumping in & out thief that drops out tons of condis where i don't have anoth condition clear to clear it up. I got a great pic too. Just to lazy to poste it. Thief is not the only one that does ridiculous amount of damage. Welcom to PoF

Then you are talking about multiple attacks, including dodges, the steal , utilities and the like and calling it ONE SHOT. At 35k it also more then a little likely it involved venom share with thieves guild or other players. In other words you did nothing to mitigate or avoid all of these attacks as they were ongoing.

If I did multiple attacks on you from any power class and you did nothing to try and avoid or mitigate the same you would be just as dead.

The thing which so many seem not to understand is just as you do not rely on your heal to heal all damage from a power attack , you do not rely on a cleanse to clean all the attacks that apply conditions. Just as with power damage incoming you use blocks. , dodges , evades and the like to make sure a given condition attack does not hit in the first place. What I find of great Interest is that If I am on my thief using a p/p unload , the enemy will dodge it or use a block or a reflect to ensure that at leas t some of the damage avoided or reflected yet I can face the same player using a condition build and apply multiple conditions and they just eat the damage.

The same mitigation and avoidance measures work against a number of Condition sources so why not use them?

No im talking 1 attack. If i add the other attacks we are talking about 50-60k total

[babazhook.6805]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:I get what the op's is saying. & Losing some damage output in exchange for condi cleans is not a bad thing. It's called balance. But there are overtuned builds such as SD condi thief that can dish out on any light armor more then 35k condi poison damage on 1 shot. plus everything else. Now that's unbalance. I should put pic's of it make you all grow wide eyed from it.

35k on one shot? Would you care to elaborate how that possible?

Idk... only thing i know is it's a SD jumping in & out thief that drops out tons of condis where i don't have anoth condition clear to clear it up. I got a great pic too. Just to lazy to poste it. Thief is not the only one that does ridiculous amount of damage. Welcom to PoF

Then you are talking about multiple attacks, including dodges, the steal , utilities and the like and calling it ONE SHOT. At 35k it also more then a little likely it involved venom share with thieves guild or other players. In other words you did nothing to mitigate or avoid all of these attacks as they were ongoing.

If I did multiple attacks on you from any power class and you did nothing to try and avoid or mitigate the same you would be just as dead.

The thing which so many seem not to understand is just as you do not rely on your heal to heal all damage from a power attack , you do not rely on a cleanse to clean all the attacks that apply conditions. Just as with power damage incoming you use blocks. , dodges , evades and the like to make sure a given condition attack does not hit in the first place. What I find of great Interest is that If I am on my thief using a p/p unload , the enemy will dodge it or use a block or a reflect to ensure that at leas t some of the damage avoided or reflected yet I can face the same player using a condition build and apply multiple conditions and they just eat the damage.

The same mitigation and avoidance measures work against a number of Condition sources so why not use them?

No im talking 1 attack. If i add the other attacks we are talking about 50-60k total

Rubbish. One attack can not apply 35k in poison.